Commodore64 EMU in cabinet

[whatisk]

I'm looking at adding a Commodore64 Emulator (Winvice) to my cab to play some of the games that I played way back when I actually owned a C64.

Just wondering how people have gotten around the games that are on 2 disks. What are you doing when asked for a disk change?
Is it possible to mount disk 2 onto a second virtual drive through the front-end or a batch file (I'm using Mamewah)?

Cheers.

[Mister Badger]

Please bare my 'Newbie' status in mind before reading this post; but in so far as I can tell it isn't possible. I'd very much like to be proved wrong though.
 I tried to get around this myself with the game 'Creatures 2' by placing the second disk image for the game in the emulated Commodore's second 1541 disk drive (device 9). Unfortunatly though, the 64 doesn't automatically search all available drives for the next disk like an Amiga does.
 I think it's because the CBM64 actually used double sided disks, i-e games that comprise of  two D64 images are actually taken from only one physical disk, hence the game isn't programed to search for side B on another drive as it would be physically impossible for it to be there..
 I'd suggest looking for CRT (Cartridge) images of games where possible - It solves this problem with Flimbo's Quest and Myth for example, though of course not every game came out on this format.
 You also might try looking here http://www.fairlight.to/tools/pc.html, Fairlight have a massive amount of CBM64 emulation utilities so there might be something of use to you there.
Hope I've not confused the issue too much + Good luck,
Pete

[whatisk]

Thanks very much for the response Mister Badger.
I'll keep looking around and post back here if I find a way around it.

[Gatt]

I don't know of any way around it currently,  but it would be nice functionality in an emulator.  As would automatically creating character disks.

Perhaps head over to Mess.org and suggest it as a feature.  I don't think Mess's goal is accuracy like Mame's so it might get added....

[chemame]

OK, again, a shot in the dark here, maybe I'm just missing something...

In WINvice, you can attach a disk image using the keyboard shortcut ALT-8

Would it be possible to use AutoHotKey for this? Have a hotkey ready to go that sends the entire keystrokes necessary to mount the image using all keystrokes?

Haven't tried any of this, as I'm at work, and it's fairly obvious when a system is running C64 and not WXP 

chemame

[chemame]

Heh, I've been using winvice for years now, and I've just learned something new.

FLIPLISTS. It looks like what you want to do is done through FLIPLISTS.

From my limited testing, I was able to create a "fliplist" with the second disk, and save that fliplist... at which point when you press ALT-N it will mount that image in device 8... SO.... theoretically...

with commandline parameters, it looks like you could start winvice with image #1 attached as device 8, and with image #2 loaded in a "fliplist", and when you need to insert disk2, you press ALT-N and away you go.

Also, if the "fliplist" contains multiple images, it appears to just cycle through them... so I assume you could go back to disk 1, etc.

Is this what you're after?

Hope it helps.

Chemame

[Mister Badger]

Hey that's cool, I was wrong! I'll certainly be looking into that idea. I have all my d64 \t64 games in mamewah as vsf files to avoid all the cracktro's and wot-not coming up, so hopefully Vice saves the 'Fliplist' as part of the snapshot images it creates. I'll test it out now and post the results here a little later. 

[chemame]

Hmmmm... dunno... from what I can tell here it doesn't seem to save that as part of the snapshot.

Bummer. I don't see what parameters can be passed to the c64 wrapper, so I'm not sure if this will work, but...

If the wrapper does pass commandline parameters on through, then couldn't you save your fliplist with the same name as your snapshot, and modify the mamewah parameters so that the wrapper not only loads the VSF but also the fliplist of the same name?

JCrouse, are you reading this? Can you comment on what the wrapper is doing with parameters?

It looks great on paper...

Chemame

[Mister Badger]

Yeah, I just tested it out with the game turrican at the "TURN THE DISK!" prompt and it doesn't seem to save the fliplist as part of the snapshot. Still, I say goodwork on your part sir, as it is a handy feature to use on  my desktop pc that I wasn't previously aware of. I'll look into your other suggestions, though I fear that my technical incompetence may hinder me somewhat (!)
 In the meantime, I'll try sending a plea for fliplists to be saved as part of snapshot images to the VICE squad (Although I'm not sure how to word it without appearing whiney, seeing as how they already gave me a cool emulator for free and they don't 'owe' me a damn bean)

[whatisk]

Wow, now things are getting interesting 
Being pretty new to Vice, I had no idea about the fliplist. I didn't even know about using VSF files to avoid all the stuff coming up at the beginning of the game.

This has now led to a couple of new questions:
1. When creating the VSF, am I correct in that once the game has loaded you then start the recording and once you get to the title screen (for example) you then stop the recording. I am also assuming that these can be loaded via a command line for use in a cab to get to the beginning of a game.

2. I have not had much luck in figuring out exactly how to use the fliplist. Is there a command line option to say which images to flip between, or is a text file created and then passed through? This is looking very interesting. If only I can figure out how to use it 

I am currently looking at using WinVice. Should I instead be using Vice (dos)? I'm running XP.

Edit: Okay,  I think #1 was answered in a post by Mister Badger in another thread...

[chemame]

ok, this really has me interested now, as it's a good problem that deserves a good solution.

I have a script I wrote at home that solves me T64 / D64 / C64 issue, so it's just a matter of modifying the script to also be aware of VSF and VFL files. Assuming they're all named the same, I should be able to easy make the script find the appropriate files and pass the params to X64 on the commandline.

My scripts are all in Perl though, so my solution will only work for you if you also run Perl. Which, of course, everyone should. 

Holy cow, Mamewah 1.62 is nice!

My entire c64 perl wrapper script is now obsolete (was a workaround for problems using "*" as the rom extension for mamewah, as I have .PRG .T64 .D64 etc)

Whatisk, Mister Badger: I am finally able to remove all the perl, make it much more standard... thing is, I am unable to get the c64wrapper to run at work... what is it for? Does it make ESC work for exit or something?

IN ANY EVENT...

Being new to both AutoHotKey and MameWah 1.62, this is what I came up with:

MAMEWAH c64 INI:

### List Generation Settings ###
rom_path                                  [emuexepath]\roms
rom_extension                             d64;prg;t64;vsf                       
list_generation_method                    rom_folder

### Execution Settings ###
pre_emulator_app_commandlines             c:\program files\autohotkey\autohotkey.exe c:\temp\arcade\ahk\escape_sends_altX.ahk {nowait}
emulator_commandline                      C:\Temp\arcade\c64\winvice\x64.exe -flipname "[emuexepath]\fliplists\[name].vfl" -autostart "[rompath]\[name].[romext]"{cursor}


AutoHotKey script "escape_sends_altX.ahk":

Escape::
Send !x
ExitApp ;
return

What I get with this is:

• Mamewah runs my autohotkey script, but does not wait for it to exit before continuing to my emulator
  
• autohotkey sits waiting to translate ESCAPE to ALT-X (x64 "quit" key)
• x64 autostarts whichever image has been selected, and looks in the fliplists\ directory for a VFL file of the same name as the emulator
• at that point, the image that was mounted by autostart runs automatically, and if I press ALT-N the next image is mounted (autohotkey might be helpful here if you don't have a keyboard handy)
• upon pressing ESCAPE, autohotkey sends ALT-X (then terminates itself), which causes x64 to exit. If you disable x64's CONFIRM ON EXIT, it is a clean exit back to mamewah

So.... you experienced mamewah and autohotkey'ers.... did I miss anything?

Chemame

[Mister Badger]

Hey - Good man Chemame. I'd have never come up with that myself. I'm fairly new to this emulation malarchy so it's gonna take me a while to figure out & follow your instructions. I'll download the new version of mamewah and look into the 'Autohotkey' program that you refer to and give it whirl at the weekend. Am I right in thinking that autohotkey's an application designed to work with an Ipac? If so, what are the chances of it working with my minipac? (I'm just being lazy now aren't I?! I should probably have a tinker with it & do some research before asking questions!) I'll post the results back here when I've got my head round it; but as it seems to work on your PC I see no reason for it not to work on mine.

Thanks Chemame
Pete
P.s,
      Your right about the wrapper by the way, it is designed to make VICE quit out with the ESC key.

[whatisk]

Looks like I might need to look into upgrading to 1.62 of Mamewah as well.

I am still at a loss though as to how the fliplists work.  How are they created? I am assuming that a VFL is different to a VSF. Is the VFL just a text file containing names of the images you want to be able to switch between with ALT-N?

I have AutoHotKey and plan on messing around with it this weekend as I would need to include a key for sending ALT-N as there isn't a keyboard easily accessible on my cab.

Thanks for all the input chemame and Mister Badger 

Edit: Okay, think I have figured it out.

[chemame]

Okay, I finally get a chance to give back to the board. It's a nice feeling.

First, for Mister Badger:

you're thinking along the right line with AutoHotKey, but it's not an ipac utility. Actually it can be used to avoid having to mess with the ipac or keywiz programming, especially for simple things like "I need my escape key to be ALT-X". I only just learned that AHK even existed. See this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=45340.0 or this website: http://www.autohotkey.com/.

Basically, AHK is a tiny app that runs in the background, and while it can do LOTS and LOTS of things, it can also be as simple as in my example, which is "sit and watch for an ESCAPE keypress, and if so, trap it, send ALT-X instead, then terminate AHK". The effect is slick... you press escape, and X64 exits, and so does the single instance of AHK you were running for the escape-->alt-x conversion.

Next, for Whatisk:

Fliplists seem to work like this: mount a disk image to device 8, then select ADD IMAGE TO FLIPLIST. If you want others, them mount another, and ADD it, etc etc. My guess is you're only going to need DISK1 and DISK2, but ymmv of course. Anyway... then SAVE the fliplist, and the next time you load it, pressing ALT-N will cycle through the images. Yes, it appears to be a text file with the names of the images. There's some specific format to it though. It's not JUST a list of filenames, it also associates them with specific devices. There's probably much more you can do with them, I just found exactly what I needed, then stopped.

SO... as I posted previously, between the two of those, you can have X64 load the fliplist (assuming you saved it with the same name as the VSF or D64 or whatever), and pressing ALT-N will mount the second image when you need it. And pressing escape will exit, and there's no need for the wrapper (not that I think the wrapper is bad, it's just a big unknown to me. Again, ymmv).

Modifying the AHK script for ALT-N remapping should be trivial. If you have problems, let me know.

Now, thanks to minwah, I have to spend my entire weekend scrubbing my system to prep it for a 1.62 upgrade. I had written ALL these nasty perl scripts to accomplish what I can now EASILY do with pre- and post- execution calls. Minwah, you rock!

Chemame

EDIT: Mister Badger, I thought I should point out that I've never used VSF images, except for my testing just now to see if my instructions will work for you. Consider me a purist, I remember those cracktros with a great deal of fondness, and I like to see the C64 start up with 32768 bytes free.  :-)

[Mister Badger]

Yep, I know what your saying Chemame. I too like to see the cracktro's and cool demo scene  stuff; I just prefer to keep them aside for watching on my desktop PC - with a few exceptions of course!
  The C64 demoscene, though not as 'active' as it once was, is still breathing today. Anyone interested should check out 'Deus ex machina' by Crest and Oxyron; 'Reanim8ed' by Hitmen; 'Throckmorton Device' by Triad; 'One million light years from earth' by Fairlight .... This list could go on & on & on. I download at least one a day.  Impressive stuff; perhaps even art. Trust me - if you've got 10 minutes spare, watch one! You'd be amazed at what the 'ol breadbox can do when it's pushed....
 Come to think of it, maybe I should set up some demoscene stuff in a mamewah list of it's own ......

Edit : I was going somewhat off topic with the above  , so to get back on track I can now happily report that Chemame's idea does indeed successfully load both a vsf and vfl file up together into winvice through Mamewah 1.62 & will exit happily back to the FE through the autohotkey script\app. I've only done this on my desktop so far and with only the one game, but as I see it all I need to do on my arc machine after installing the new software is remap one of my arcade buttons to the 'N' key or make another A.H.K script to make ALT+N =  one of my panels existing buttons. Shouldn't be to hard really.
  All I've really done is cut and paste Chemame's .ini and .ahk file and alter the paths where necessary, but I'm still pleased with myself for managing to do the procedure drunk!
Are you getting on okay with it whatisk?

[whatisk]

Everything is beginning to fall into place now - thanks heaps to you both 

Part of the problem I was having with the fliplist was that I was messing around with it at work and on the work PC I had Winvice 1.12 which doesn't allow them to be passed at the command line I think. Upgrading to 1.19 fixed that part of the issue and I was able to see how they work.

The files themselves appear to be text files with image names associated to a device.
EG:

Code: [Select]

# Vice fliplist file

UNIT 8
c:\vice\games\caligam1.d64
c:\vice\games\caligam0.d64
I found that if you have the second disk listed first in the VFL file, then when you ALT-N the second disk is selected first as the first is automounted on launch (if that makes sense).

I think about all that is left is to mess around with AHK to include the remapping of ALT-N to a different key that is on my cab. When I first tried it, it not only did the ALT-N, but also exited Vice. Obviously needs a bit more work  Once I get the hang of it, I'm sure it will prove very useful - especially when paired with Mamewah 1.62 as I have a couple of other programs with non-ESC exit keys. I spent most of my time messing around with Mamewah 1.62 getting it setup and working the same as my 1.61 setup.

It was also good to see that you can pass a VFL and a VSF file via the command line and it all works as you would hope 

Edit: Okay, got the script running by the look of it. Not as hard as I thought. I just seemed to be missing a "return":

Code: [Select]

R::
Send !n
return
Y::
Send !x
ExitApp ;
return
Of course 'R' will become whatever key you want to press to send ALT-N to swap images.

[Vigo]

hey, thats really interesting though, I had completely given up on the idea of running any double sided disk games!! Thanks, I appreciate it!! I can't wait to see Maniac Mansion on my cab!