Question on dual Act-Labs guns to support MAMEdev!!!!

[Tiger-Heli]

Derrick Renaud (MameDev - discrete logistics and sound circuits author) asked the following question on MAMEWorld's forum (http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=66930&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)

> I have just got sidetracked by the lightgun issue. Trying to figure out if
> -dual_lightgun is really needed when we will have true independant input.
>
> Anyone know if Act Labs supports dual independant output? Or does their new Dual gun
> system only act as a single mouse.

In other words, assuming I understand the question right - for you guys using dual Act-labs guns with Analog Plus or AdvanceMAME, is the -dual lightgun parameter still required.

I am trying to prove we can get him a quick answer, so don't let me down.

TIA!!!

[Cananas]

If we have multiple mice, there is no needed -dual_lightgun anymore.

[Silver]

The new act-labs are pretty much the only lightgun I've not messed around with...

dual lightguns (I think) simply maps mouse buttons 3 and 4 to player 2 buttons 1 and 2 (or similar) so you can split the single mouse co-ords (that you normally get in XP with 2 mice hooked up both controlling the system mouse).

So does act-labs come with a driver or is it simply identified as a USB mouse/HID-input device? Basically if someone has two of the new guns, and plugs them in, do they appear as 2 devices in device manager?

[Cananas]

No, no.

The new usb act-labs for two players is the same TV usb gun adapted to work on monitors, so there is only one device in the device manager.

Like your brother TV Out, the new usb lightgun has a switch to select player 1 or 2. Simply change the button map to 1&2 botton or 3&4 button.

So we need the raw mouse input to track the guns on 2 players game like operation thunderbolt and so.

BTW, I have two USB TV Out ActLab Guns, one USB ActLab Gun (older), and one USB ActLab Gun (the new that support two players.

***** EDIT *****
With the rawmouse input we don't need the dual_lightgun option, either ActLabs users or LCDTopGun users, because we will have two independent devices.

[Derrick Renaud]

Does anyone have an Act Labs dual gun setup?

If so, I need some tests run on Windows XP.

Run this file and tell me what it reports.
http://link.mywwwserver.com/~jstookey/arcade/rawmouse/raw_mouse_test.exe

*** IGNORE Mouse0 ***

Shoot your first gun a few times at different spots and tell me what mouse shows changes. Then do the same for the second gun.

Also tell me which mouse reports a button change for each gun.

What value does it show for each gun's relative mode.

What are the x/y values when you shot near the top/left and botton/right of the screen. These values will change some, so don't worry.

Finally what are the X/Y values when you shoot off screen?

I need this tested for both the Dual TV and Dual PC. So tell me which version you are testing.

Please report the findings with the original Act Labs driver, and the GunCon2 driver if it works.

The reason I ask this, is because just adding RAW Mouse support is not enough.  It will work fine with mice/trackballs, but lightguns are different.  The drivers need to report as mice.

As I do not have ActLabs guns, I do not know if they only report as 1  mouse no matter what.  I don't even know if they use 2 seperate USB connection or are connected to the same box.

RAW mouse lightgun support will not be added until the whole lightgun mess is straightened out.

thanks,
D.

[mccoy178]

Someone let this man borrow a lightgun dang it!

[Cananas]

Tested 2 PC USB ActLabs (one without switch-older- and other with it -newer dual-). Windows XP SP2:

Mouse 0 is the "windows mouse".

- My PC mouse (PS/2) is detected like mouse 5.
- The First Lightgun (newer) is Mouse 1
- The Second Lightgun (older) is Mouse 2
- I have Mouse 3 and Mouse 4 detected without use.

Both guns work well and recognized like two different mice. Great work!!

For the older gun (without switch), the trigger is button1 and the reload button is button2 of the mouse 1.

The same with the other if is switched to position 1 (trigger is button 1 and reload button is button 2, in this case of the mouse 2). If switched to 2 player mode position, the trigger is button3 and the reload button is button4 of the mouse 2.

On both relative mode (lightgun) is 1.

Values (it depends of the calibration -never good with my actlabs...)

                     Top/Left                      botton/right
mouse 1         76,0                            65134, 63290
mouse 2        168,0                           63426, 63466

As we know, if you shoot off screen, this actlabs keep the coordinates and insert a reload button click (usually button 2 of the mouse). So, because the gun don't track de cursor, the coordinates when you shoot off screen are the coordinates of your last shot to the screen (pushing the trigger).

I still don't test the TV out ActLabs, but I think they work the same.

Please report the findings with the original Act Labs driver, and the GunCon2 driver if it works.

The reason I ask this, is because just adding RAW Mouse support is not enough.  It will work fine with mice/trackballs, but lightguns are different.  The drivers need to report as mice.

The ActLabs don't use any driver. They are detected by the O.S. like a mouse.

As I do not have ActLabs guns, I do not know if they only report as 1  mouse no matter what.  I don't even know if they use 2 seperate USB connection or are connected to the same box.

Each gun have its own  USB connection. Only the video out is connected in serial, but is not important. When you connect an ActLabs Gun, the O.S. detect a fourth button mouse, or standard mouse, I think.

If you want to use two actlabs, one of them must have a switch to position 2, that cause the trigger is detected like button 3 and the reload button like button 4.

[Derrick Renaud]

Tested 2 PC USB ActLabs (one without switch-older- and other with it -newer dual-). Windows XP SP2:

Great.  That means we can remove the -dual_lightgun hack.  Both guns are independant.

That is all the info I was looking for.

For LCD TopGun, I recomend to use GunCon2 or some other mouse driver.  I will have to write to EMS and recomend they change their driver to a mouse driver.  Because the current driver will not work.

I posted the current RAW WIP code.  It does not yet support Lightguns, and I probably won't get a chance till next weekend.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=67172&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Thanks for your help,
D.

[Silver]

Tested 2 PC USB ActLabs (one without switch-older- and other with it -newer dual-). Windows XP SP2:

Great.  That means we can remove the -dual_lightgun hack.  Both guns are independant.

That is all the info I was looking for.

For LCD TopGun, I recomend to use GunCon2 or some other mouse driver.  I will have to write to EMS and recomend they change their driver to a mouse driver.  Because the current driver will not work.

I posted the current RAW WIP code.  It does not yet support Lightguns, and I probably won't get a chance till next weekend.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=67172&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Thanks for your help,
D.

Absolutely awesome work. Huge thanks for working through this change....

[MKChamp]

I also want to show you my appreciation for putting this into the core MAME code. To finally be able to play all my games with the latest version of MAME instead of using a MAME/ANALOG+ combo will be great.
Thank you.

[Cananas]

Yes. Thank you very much, Derrick.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just wanted to take a moment to say thanks as well.

P.S.  (I remember when you were working on the 4-way code in MAME - the great stickymode debate).

[Farmboy90]

So I have two LCD TopGuns and Acorns guncon driver.  Do I need to do anything?  Things work fine now.  Are you saying I can "upgrade" to this patch and things will be better?

[Derrick Renaud]

So I have two LCD TopGuns and Acorns guncon driver.  Do I need to do anything?  Things work fine now.  Are you saying I can "upgrade" to this patch and things will be better?

Umm.... from the whatsnew.txt:

> 0.104u5
> -------
>
> Updated windows input code: [Derrick Renaud, Jake Stookey]
> * Now using RAWMOUSE mode if available. This means you can now use
> multiple mice in Windows XP. Lightgun support has not been
> changed yet.

[aljupy]

Umm.... from the whatsnew.txt:

> 0.104u5
> -------
>
> Updated windows input code: [Derrick Renaud, Jake Stookey]
> * Now using RAWMOUSE mode if available. This means you can now use
> multiple mice in Windows XP. Lightgun support has not been
> changed yet.

I would like to test mame 0.105 if 3 LightGuns can work at same time for that games like "REVOLUTION-X", where 3 players could play at same time 
WOW!!!