Any advice on selling a bartop cab?

[Tahnok]

I'm considering creating a bartop cab to sell (to fund more cabs ), but I have a few questions.

The CP will come installed and wired. Do most people prefer 4-way or 8-way (this is going to be a balltop joystick)? Three buttons seem to be enough for the old games, but should I go up to six just so it can be compatible with the most recent games?

Also, is it a good idea to go with a USB joystick encoder? I have a few Gravis Gamepad Pro pads that are fairly easy to hack. MAME supports the joystick, but there may be compatibility issues with other software packages (if anyone actually wanted to play one of those collection games).

Who should I sell to? Ebay is the obvious answer, but I'm also wondering if anyone has ever found local buyers. I live in southern California, gaming mecha, so I would think it wouldn't it wouldn't be too hard. I just don't know how I would go about getting my name out there. I'm not even sure if there is a market for this (I just saw the bartop on ebay that had to be relisted).

How much can I really expect to make on a bartop cab? The cab will come painted with t-molding and a wired CP, but no computer or monitor.

Thanks for the help!

[Timoe]

just curious, what part of Sou Cali?

note: you'll hit a wider market with the six button layout.  Sad but true.

[Tahnok]

The Antelope Valley. About 60 miles north of downtown LA (still within LA county). I'm within commuting distance of most of the big name cities (including Santa Clarita).

[Timoe]

Is that like lancaster/palmdale?

[Roughy]

I'd vote for 6 buttons and 8-ways if possible.  Just personal preference from actually having played a couple now.

Also, I wonder if it would be worth it to add an option for a little... "jut" out from the center of the cab for a small trakball?  Could be too much, but just saying.

Might want to consider external connections for JAKKS?


Also, check this thread:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=45304.40

[ChadTower]

If you try to go the full MAME/arcade monitor route, odds are by the time you get the thing done and nice you won't be able to get enough to make a healthy profit.

These things aren't cheap to build well.

Of course, there are ways to knock the cost down, but you're going to have to really look at all of the issues and decide where you want to make the compromises.

[TOK]

I think there are two ways to do this... To sell somewhere like here, you could turn out basically "barebones" kits and let people do their own detail work. I looked at the bartop pics on your page, and it's nice. I could see guys who don't like woodworking or have time to do it wanting either a bare or partially finished cab. There was a guy here that made a bunch of mini Pac Man and Galaga cabs that generated a lot of interest. I never followed through on how far he got with that. I do remember a lot of people here just wanted the plans to build themselves.

I consider the other way pretty shady because you're taking advantage of someones lack of knowledge... Do a well finished cabinet with a cheap TV and a $20 Jakk's system on it. You sometimes see these types of cabs go on ebay for 300 to 400 dollars. The Target bartop might be stealing some of those customers now though.

The other issue with building/selling is weight. A lot of interested people will balk at spending 40 extra bucks something as bulky as a bartop. Even if you flat pack just the MDF, its heavy. Good luck.

[ChadTower]

I consider the other way pretty shady because you're taking advantage of someones lack of knowledge... Do a well finished cabinet with a cheap TV and a $20 Jakk's system on it. You sometimes see these types of cabs go on ebay for 300 to 400 dollars.

That is only shady if you mispreresent it.  Hacking a Jakk isn't any more shady than hacking a video card or using an AVGA.

[Tahnok]

Is that like lancaster/palmdale?

Yes, I'm in Lancaster, to be more exact.

Insert Quote
I'd vote for 6 buttons and 8-ways if possible.  Just personal preference from actually having played a couple now.

Also, I wonder if it would be worth it to add an option for a little... "jut" out from the center of the cab for a small trakball?  Could be too much, but just saying.

Might want to consider external connections for JAKKS?


Also, check this thread:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=45304.40

I agree, I think 8-way with six buttons would probably be the most generic.

A trackball would add to the cost too much. Not to mention space and building complication. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Well, it is being designed for a PC monitor, meaning there would be no easy way to adapt it for JAKKS.

I seem to remember seeing that thread, but forgot to search for it last night. I think this is just more proof that it is better to create something almost completely ready to go; there is no lack of people building shells.

If you try to go the full MAME/arcade monitor route, odds are by the time you get the thing done and nice you won't be able to get enough to make a healthy profit.

These things aren't cheap to build well.

Of course, there are ways to knock the cost down, but you're going to have to really look at all of the issues and decide where you want to make the compromises.

That is the main thing I'm worried about. I spent a few hours last night trying to come-up with some numbers.

Really the most expensive thing in most cabs is the CP and monitor. The monitor will not be included, which will cut back on cost. The CP will probably have a basic Happ Ultimate (or Super) and a few buttons, also cutting back on cost. I will hopefully also use hacks for encoders (I have a small reserve ready to hack). I'll have to play with the numbers some more though...

I think there are two ways to do this... To sell somewhere like here, you could turn out basically "barebones" kits and let people do their own detail work. I looked at the bartop pics on your page, and it's nice. I could see guys who don't like woodworking or have time to do it wanting either a bare or partially finished cab. There was a guy here that made a bunch of mini Pac Man and Galaga cabs that generated a lot of interest. I never followed through on how far he got with that. I do remember a lot of people here just wanted the plans to build themselves.

I consider the other way pretty shady because you're taking advantage of someones lack of knowledge... Do a well finished cabinet with a cheap TV and a $20 Jakk's system on it. You sometimes see these types of cabs go on ebay for 300 to 400 dollars. The Target bartop might be stealing some of those customers now though.

The other issue with building/selling is weight. A lot of interested people will balk at spending 40 extra bucks something as bulky as a bartop. Even if you flat pack just the MDF, its heavy. Good luck.

Those pics are fairly out of date. Check out http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35430.0 for the most recent (of course, the new one will not have as nice of a CP). That guy is actually still selling. I found out later that it is actually one of his cabs that I mentioned as being relisted. Surely though he has sold a few.

I considered going the Jakks system route, but I want to make my cab a bit more luxurious than that. Yes, it won't be ready to play like that, but it will be very close.

I'm hoping to save some money on shipping by packing it flat (using a cam-lock system ). Hopefully though I can find a local buyer and skip that whole ordeal entirely.


Thanks for the help. I will probably build the cab even if I don't sell it. It really won't be that big of a deal if it doesn't sell, since it will just be another cab in my collection. It would be nice though...

[Roughy]

Really the most expensive thing in most cabs is the CP and monitor. The monitor will not be included, which will cut back on cost. The CP will probably have a basic Happ Ultimate (or Super) and a few buttons, also cutting back on cost. I will hopefully also use hacks for encoders (I have a small reserve ready to hack). I'll have to play with the numbers some more though...

Seeing that made me think of something that would have really helped me along the way in my first experience that I'm going through (still).

1)

[Lilwolf]

I like the idea of selling one that works with standard parts (14" TV you can get at wallmart for $xxx) to save on shipping.

but selling cabinets on ebay is not that easy.  I think bartops are a good way to go... but make sure your design is good looking. 

I would DEFINATELY go with either multiple control panel options... or 8way + 6 buttons. 

I would consider going with a keyboard encoder (21 bucks for a keywiz eco with headers) because the number of frontends that work with it increases considerably.

Vertical or horizontal is a big issue also.

What motherboard (I would sell with one unless it takes a standard board size)

I would definetly consider selling them without mame + roms because they are going after people... but ask mame what it takes to use their name and say you will do whatever they want... usually means that you will only do it with starroms I believe...  they are your friends... don' !@# with them...

Call it an emulation or classic arcade cabinet - not a mame cabinet until you get permission

And last...

The first one should be for yourself.  You want one to play with...

[Tahnok]

[Cut]

Seeing that made me think of something that would have really helped me along the way in my first experience that I'm going through (still).

1)  Can you offer up the CP and monitor separately?  Perhaps be a reseller through "company X" or someone that you can build a relationship with?  People do it all the time when it comes to selling electronics, etc.--a lot of them don't warehouse jack, they just have another place ship with "their name" at the top of the label.

[Cut]

2)  Can you offer up more than one CP design?  Allow ratings and/or feedbacks on each so users get a feel--hell, even if it's just links to threads here, that really helps, while at the same time driving some people to this community, which is where a lot of questions get answered.

3)  Offer up alternatives.  Seriously.  What I mean is that, short of giving away your plans and your workmanship--which I do not think you should do by any stretch--offer alternatives for people who are interested.

"Use this RCA TV from Wal~Mart as a good monitor if high quality isn't your main focus [link]"

(had to edit; browser locked-up)

[Cut]

That should mean a lot.

Not to mention, if you're not selling something or sharing information about something--someone else is.  There's a reason a lot of brands delve into "lower quality" products (ie generics, yet made by the same company) and that's to make sure they're not missing customers.

/soapbox  (hope it helps)

Interesting ideas.

1) Offering a monitor is pretty much out of the question. Shipping prices and markup would make it far more expensive than just going to a local shop and buying one. Personally, I would recommend going to a thrift shop and picking one up for a few bucks (that's where the one I'm running on my bartop right now came from). You may want to bring a laptop with you though and make sure the thing works. The CP could be sold separately, except that the cab won't look right without it. The CP isn't an overextending type you find on stand-ups, its integrated into the cab.

2) I considered allowing the buyer to customize the CP, but this would prove to be quite expensive or create a delay between order and shipping. It would require that either I have many CPs on hand and just ship with the one they choose (which would mean a lot of money just sitting in CPs) or ordering the parts custom and building it to specs (which would mean a large delay while I get the parts and build it).

3) That is something I will consider once the plans are a little further along. I'm still working the bugs out of the design. The next step will be to check compatibility with as many monitors and TVs as possible.

Thanks for the recommendations. I will certainly keep what you said in mind. I'm not really looking to start a full business here though. I'm just looking to make a few bucks doing something I love. I will not be mass-producing these cabs; they will be hand manufactured.

I like the idea of selling one that works with standard parts (14" TV you can get at wallmart for $xxx) to save on shipping.

but selling cabinets on ebay is not that easy.  I think bartops are a good way to go... but make sure your design is good looking. 

I would DEFINATELY go with either multiple control panel options... or 8way + 6 buttons. 

I would consider going with a keyboard encoder (21 bucks for a keywiz eco with headers) because the number of frontends that work with it increases considerably.

Vertical or horizontal is a big issue also.

What motherboard (I would sell with one unless it takes a standard board size)

I would definetly consider selling them without mame + roms because they are going after people... but ask mame what it takes to use their name and say you will do whatever they want... usually means that you will only do it with starroms I believe...  they are your friends... don' !@# with them...

Call it an emulation or classic arcade cabinet - not a mame cabinet until you get permission

And last...

The first one should be for yourself.  You want one to play with...

The cab is a redesign of the Credit Button cab (link in my post above). I think it is certainly a unique design, whether or not that is a good thing I don

[Roughy]

I think you missed some of my points, though...

I'm not saying necessarily to offer a monitor, but you may be able to work deals with people and share the costs--like I said, you COULD point to other monitors that work, additional instructions, etc.  You don't have to offer TV X at Wal~Mart, just point people to something that works to help them out and minimize their own decision-making process.  If I knew of TV X, I could eBay--RIGHT NOW--and say "oh wow, I can get that on a BIN for $45; that's not bad... I'm in" instead of searching like mad and/or trying a few things and not having them necessarily work.  Frustration could be avoided.

I'm also didn't say to allow users to customize the CPs, what I said was to consider offering more than 1 design so users could have a choice.  You'll get suggestions like mad; simply make more than 1 design users can choose from.  It may give you different price points, but it also sways some people who might not buy from you otherwise.  Maybe just start with 1, then start modifying, listing qty left, etc.  I just think more than 1 is a good idea.

And I don't think you're trying to start a full business; these are sound business notions for anyone doing it full time or part time.  I've done more than my share of marketing work and have been involved way too much with these types of things--I'm hoping that this comes across as things that I've seen work for others.

Anyway, I do hope it helps.  Now I need to chase away a hangover.

[Tahnok]

I think you missed some of my points, though...

I'm not saying necessarily to offer a monitor, but you may be able to work deals with people and share the costs--like I said, you COULD point to other monitors that work, additional instructions, etc.  You don't have to offer TV X at Wal~Mart, just point people to something that works to help them out and minimize their own decision-making process.  If I knew of TV X, I could eBay--RIGHT NOW--and say "oh wow, I can get that on a BIN for $45; that's not bad... I'm in" instead of searching like mad and/or trying a few things and not having them necessarily work.  Frustration could be avoided.

I'm also didn't say to allow users to customize the CPs, what I said was to consider offering more than 1 design so users could have a choice.  You'll get suggestions like mad; simply make more than 1 design users can choose from.  It may give you different price points, but it also sways some people who might not buy from you otherwise.  Maybe just start with 1, then start modifying, listing qty left, etc.  I just think more than 1 is a good idea.

And I don't think you're trying to start a full business; these are sound business notions for anyone doing it full time or part time.  I've done more than my share of marketing work and have been involved way too much with these types of things--I'm hoping that this comes across as things that I've seen work for others.

Anyway, I do hope it helps.  Now I need to chase away a hangover.

OK then, that was pretty much what I was planning on doing in the test phase (though I did misunderstand you). I plan on measuring as many monitors and TVs as possible and make sure they fit.

Yes, but this has the problem the first problem that I mentioned with CPs. Many CPs laying around means lots of money sitting in un-sold merchandise. The CP is going to be the most expensive thing. I will consider it though after I have sold one or two.

Good to know. Too often people come onto forums and try to offer advice on something they know nothing about. Thanks for the taking the time.

[Roughy]

Yes, but this has the problem the first problem that I mentioned with CPs. Many CPs laying around means lots of money sitting in un-sold merchandise. The CP is going to be the most expensive thing. I will consider it though after I have sold one or two.

And with that, I don't disagree--but you may be able to limit yourself to 1 or 2.

I tell you what else I'd do--as you're building your own (if you haven't already), take a look at Mameroom's Custom CP software.  It's a bit herky-jerky on the usability side, but if you start to play with it, you can get some good ideas.  Test them out on us here--and while you're at it, do what many others have suggested and make 'em out of cardboard to test out.  Seems to be the best approach, to be honest.

Beyond that, you say that the CP will come complete & wired--and I say "why?".  That is, perhaps offer that 1 kit (and if you want to, just offer the 1 CP with it) and then give people the dimensions, etc.--all that they need to know so that they can go and do their own magic on it.  That is, a lot will want to do a lighted button, a lot will want to do this vs. that type of joystick--let them get their own CP parts and do the wiring themselves if they want to.  Seems to me that would save you on those costs--even as a newbie I still have been wanting to upgrade and customize all over the place and I think that most people who find their way here do actually want to get into the guts a bit.

I think this is all a great idea--I'm seriously interested in learning what you do and working my way into this type of a kit.  Seems like it could be really kick-ass to have around.

[Tahnok]

Yes, but this has the problem the first problem that I mentioned with CPs. Many CPs laying around means lots of money sitting in un-sold merchandise. The CP is going to be the most expensive thing. I will consider it though after I have sold one or two.

And with that, I don't disagree--but you may be able to limit yourself to 1 or 2.

I tell you what else I'd do--as you're building your own (if you haven't already), take a look at Mameroom's Custom CP software.  It's a bit herky-jerky on the usability side, but if you start to play with it, you can get some good ideas.  Test them out on us here--and while you're at it, do what many others have suggested and make 'em out of cardboard to test out.  Seems to be the best approach, to be honest.

Beyond that, you say that the CP will come complete & wired--and I say "why?".  That is, perhaps offer that 1 kit (and if you want to, just offer the 1 CP with it) and then give people the dimensions, etc.--all that they need to know so that they can go and do their own magic on it.  That is, a lot will want to do a lighted button, a lot will want to do this vs. that type of joystick--let them get their own CP parts and do the wiring themselves if they want to.  Seems to me that would save you on those costs--even as a newbie I still have been wanting to upgrade and customize all over the place and I think that most people who find their way here do actually want to get into the guts a bit.

I think this is all a great idea--I'm seriously interested in learning what you do and working my way into this type of a kit.  Seems like it could be really kick-ass to have around.

Now really, you could have glanced at my signature at least (regarding CP software). Credit Button Version 1 (my own) is almost finished, so it's too late to make any major changes on that.

As far as wired, I'm going for plug-and-play. I would like to make it so the computer and monitor are slid in, hooked up and everything is ready (assuming you have the software). I am considering though getting one of these cabs into basic shape and trying to sell it. This would mean ready to assemble, paint and design CP. If that doesn't sell, I can always finish it myself.

Edit: Images of the cab can be found here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=47319.0

[Roughy]

You win with the CP.

I appreciate the plug-n-play, too.

I know that personally I'd still like a little bit more of the DIY even though that's not what it is.  Like I said, some of "us" will want to get under the hood a bit, but I dig where you're coming from.

Seriously--good luck.  Cannot wait to see when it's done.  I'll be watching and wanting...

[ChadTower]

You're underestimating the cost of quality artwork.

Often the most expensive part, BY FAR, of a good cab is the artwork. 

[Roughy]

You're underestimating the cost of quality artwork.

Often the most expensive part, BY FAR, of a good cab is the artwork.

[ChadTower]

Oh, he could definitely do an off the shelf artwork from a vendor... the problem is that to sell to your average person it has to look like an arcade game.  Arcade games have art, and art costs $$$... but they're not going to want to PAY what it will cost to have a decent monitor, PC, controls, and art.

By the time you're done building a decent little MAME cab you're going to have paid $300-400 possibly and that is pretty much what you'll be able to sell the thing for.

[Roughy]

Oh, he could definitely do an off the shelf artwork from a vendor... the problem is that to sell to your average person it has to look like an arcade game.

[ChadTower]

A person who wants to do half the work themself isn't going to pay much for a bartop cab when they could do that work themself with a downloaded set of CAD plans.

[Goz]

I'd think that if you provided a flat pack kit as previously suggested you'd be able to keep the shipping costs down and there would certainly be a market for such a bartop kit. The Target kit is crap and yet I bet you their did a fair bit of market research and determined that they could sell their crap. If you do this right you could sell it locally or on the net without issue. I don't think your selling base would be limited to any one stage of enthusiast. I'd think that there are those even with basic wood working skills that would buy a kit. After all DreamArcades and Arcade Depot do a fair business selling their cocktail kits. You might do well to even offer an  unpopulated control panel.

Best of luck which ever way you do go.

-Goz

[ChadTower]

They THINK it will sell.  That is a long, long way from it actually selling.

[Roughy]

They THINK it will sell.

[Tahnok]

Thanks for all the help so far ! One more question...

Would it be complete taboo to not put a back on the cab? Due to the shape of the cab, it would be quite difficult to put on a back and still have room for the monitor. The monitor does not stick out the back, but a straight board from the back panel, across the curve, to the top panel would cut into the cab too much. My personal bartop doesn't have a back, and I never give it a second thought (you can't see it once the monitor is in and it is on a table).

[RayB]

Well, it would be safer. Safe from kids, animals and idiots.

[Roughy]

All the other cabs seem to have backs.  I'd want mine to.

That's a personal preference, but I'd rather keep it all contained.

[Mr. Bubblehead]

OK I'll chime in here.  I considered selling bartops in various forms, turnkey (plug-n-play, already completed, etc.), barebones (cabinet and control panel completed but buyer still has to install the guts that make it work), preassembled (cabinet is built but the buyer must add controls, guts, and artwork) and in kit form (basically just a bunch of pieces cut out).  I decided on the preassembled kits, as the kits will appeal to most people and the profit margin is good.  If it were any more complete (i.e. controls already installed) I couldn't sell them for a decent price and also the potential buyer may not like the control layout, button colors, etc.

Regarding the back, yes they need one.  Keeps the spiders, curious cat, and fingers of little ones out of there.

As for shipping, so far it has cost me $20-25 to ship a completed cabinet via DHL (ground freight).  I have an account with them and I ship a considerable amount of packages with them each month so I get fairly decent rates.