Atari Flashback on USAToday

[rugby1]

Thought someone might be interested in hacking this hardware into a mame cab...


link to the USAToday article:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/games/2005-09-22-atari-flashback_x.htm

[NoOne=NBA=]

The fact that the joysticks are "exactly like the Atari 2600 joysticks of yore" makes me a bit nervous.

25+ years, and they still haven't figured out that brittle plastic hitting chicklet buttons inside a joystick doesn't hold up?

[brophog]

No kidding. Has there been a worse joystick than that?

[rugby1]

I always liked when the rubber handle would fall off the joystick and you were left with just the hard white plastic that is underneath...  I think I still have callus's on my hands 

[rugby1]

Let me clarify, so no one gets confused   

I wouldn't incorporate the joysticks into a MAME cabinet, but use/hack the console components containing the ROMS instead of a computer running MAME in a cabinet....   

I totally agree that the old atari console joysticks sucked beyond all belief 

 

[Skadar]

I always liked when the rubber handle would fall off the joystick and you were left with just the hard white plastic that is underneath...  I think I still have callus's on my hands 

That is so hilarious and so absolutely true.  A few months after Christmas everyone was playing their 2600s with hard, white joysticks.

And if there was ever a console system that was best left as a fond memory, it is the 2600.  Actually enjoying a 2600 game in today's world is a difficult task.

[stratjakt]

Why does the article say this (about MAME)

The legality of using MAME to play ROMs you don't actually own is up for debate.

The legality isn't up for debate, it's illegal.  Sorry, it just is.  In the US copyrights go on and on and on and on and on. 

Some companies have a lax attitude, some are more realistic and realize it's not worth their efforts to fight.  Some, like Nintendo, are dead set against roms..

Just because nobody is there to stop you from doing it doesn't make it OK.

Meh, not worth it..  It's just not legal, and I wish people wouldnt act like it's any more of a grey area than leeching the latest XBox or Gamecube title.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Actually enjoying a 2600 game in today's world is a difficult task.

I still like some of the ones that weren't on any other platform, or in the arcade.

Adventure is still fun to play on occasion, as are Superman, Yar's Revenge, Indy 500, and alot of the Activision games.
Video Olympics is a great party game too.

[brophog]

Why does the article say this (about MAME)

That's their way of saying they want nothing to do with the issue on either side of the coin.

But what about the flipside?

I own records that I've bought 10 times. Some are on several different formats (LP, cassette, 8 track, reel, CD.......). Some were stolen. Some were broken. Some are remastered or a similiar way to sell the same album a second time. If you want to break it down by song, it's even worse with compilations/reprints/concerts.

I've owned movies on multiple formats, similiar to the above.

Video games on several different platforms or multiple copies of the same game on the same platform.

On and on and on. Did I buy the right to listen/watch/play the copyrighted material? Or, did I buy a cheap piece of plastic (that will eventually break or become grossly outdated) that just happened to have the copyrighted material on it?

[Setabs]

 Or, did I buy a cheap piece of plastic (that will eventually break or become grossly outdated) that just happened to have the copyrighted material on it?

The record companies would like you to believe that.  Listen to the comments about the record industry by Roger McGuinn of the Byrds in [url http://www.revision3.com/twit] twit video 21[/url]

I am torn on this.   A game in the arcades that gets ported to a console is not the same game.  and a game that is released on all consoles and pc often times has different levels for a particular console.  But I think it should be legal for you to DL the original cd release of an album off the internet if you own an 8-track, LP, or cassette.


sorry to help drive this post off topic.

[Zakk]

That is so hilarious and so absolutely true.

[Havok]

The fact that the joysticks are "exactly like the Atari 2600 joysticks of yore" makes me a bit nervous.

25+ years, and they still haven't figured out that brittle plastic hitting chicklet buttons inside a joystick doesn't hold up?

Actually, these joysticks are redesigned with modern components - the handle actually unscrews off the unit, and is supposed to be more reliable.  They just look the same, and will work on the 2600's...

[TOK]

That is so hilarious and so absolutely true.  A few months after Christmas everyone was playing their 2600s with hard, white joysticks.

And if there was ever a console system that was best left as a fond memory, it is the 2600.  Actually enjoying a 2600 game in today's world is a difficult task.

Says you!! 

 

I was going to say that the only thing worse than the 2600 joysticks were the games, but skadar beat me to it.   

[Chris]

That is so hilarious and so absolutely true.

[Havok]

Star Raiders rocks!

[NoOne=NBA=]

Space Shuttle is still a technical marvel in my book.
I can't believe they did that much, with that little.

[Stingray]

There are too many Atari 2600 games that I enjoy to even bother trying to list them. Suffice to say that my 2600 is constanly hooked up in my game room, and gets plenty of play time.

-S

[TheBrokentoken]

Space Shuttle is still a technical marvel in my book.
I can't believe they did that much, with that little.

That is so very true.  It's hard to believe that the same console that runs 'combat' also runs Space Shuttle.  Just goes to show.  I still remember the first time I saw Space Shuttle - I was blown away - not so much w/ the graphics but with the detail of the simulation for the time period.

I still love the 2600.  Superman, Adventure and Yar's Revenge were mentiond as being great games, and I totally agree.  I also loved River Raid, Keystone Kapers amd Enduro.  Activision really stretched the platform.

[rugby1]

River Raid is one of my all time favorite games (along with Cyberball 2072)!!!!!!

Found a list of the games that are built in:


The full listing (in alphabetical groupings) of the 40 games to be included in the system:
3D Tic-Tac-Toe
Adventure, Adventure II, Aquaventure, Arcade Asteroids, Arcade Pong, Asteroids Deluxe, Atari Climber
Caverns Of Mars, Centipede, Combat, Combat 2
Dodge'm
Fatal Run, Frog Pond
Hangman, Haunted House, Human Cannonball
Lunar Lander
Maze Craze, Millipede, Missile Command
Off the Wall, Outlaw
Pitfall
Quadrun
Radar Lock, Return To Haunted House, River Raid
Saboteur, Save Mary, Secret Quest, Space Duel, Space War
Thrust
Video Checkers, Video Chess
Wizard
Yars' Return, Yars' Revenge

Of the 40 listed games, 7 are complete new games! As if that wasn't enough, another 7 are unreleased/prototype games. 2 more (River Raid and Pitfall!) have been licensed from Activision, another first.

[crsdawg]

this console has lots of hacking potential. it has the new atari on a chip inside, instead of the nes on a chip with ported games like the original flashback had (and just about every tv game system). they also incorporated solder pads for a cartridge connector onto the pcb. there's a guide to add the cartidge port here. once done this thing will work just as an original system only with better picture quality.

as for the atari 2600 joystick design. after spending a good part of my youth with a cx40 in my hands, i have a hard time playing vcs games with anything different. it's all about personal taste, just because you don't like the feel of them doesn't make it a bad controller.

[missioncontrol]

And if there was ever a console system that was best left as a fond memory, it is the 2600.

[MPS]

Hello everyone.

I was a bit surprised to see discussion of the Flashback 2 here, but I am pleased to see some interest.  I am one of the people that helped design the unit for Atari.

Let me see if I can address some of the comments mentioned here so far.  For starters, someone mentioned hacking.  Most everything mentioned previously by CRSDAWG is correct.  We went back to the drawing board and designed a "2600 on a chip" based off of the original Atari designs from the 70's.  There is a whole long drawn-out story behind the NES hardware in the original Flashback, and I can't really go into any details about it.  Suffice it to say, Atari listened this time and allowed us to design system with the enthusiast in mind.

All of the traces to hack in a cart port are built onto the board.  The degree of 2600 compatibility we have achieved has been very high.  Only a few select games we tried (Berzerk, Star Raiders, and a few others) won't function correctly on the new system.  Most all other carts run 100% as they originally did back in the day.

I'll point you in the direction of some hacking projects that have been done already.  The first is from Curt Vendel, who is my "partner in crime" and the Lead Engineer on the Flashback Engineering Team.  The second is from a guy named Bob Colbert.  Bob even went so far as to hack in original 2600 switches....

http://www.atarimuseum.com/fb2hacks/index.htm
http://members.cox.net/rcolbert/

I love Bob's pictures of an original 2600 Defender cart running on the FB2. 

The video output has been greatly improved.  No more TV switchboxes for this unit as the system outputs crystal clear composite.  2600 video has never looked better.

Someone made a comment about joysticks.  They may look 100% identical to the originals, but the guts are slightly different.  They should last a lot longer, and you will notice a difference when you play with the new sticks.

The Flashback 2 is also compatible with original Atari paddles, and even the Atari trackball for games like Missile Command.  The FB2 joysticks will also work fine on original Atari 2600 units, Atari 8-bit computers, etc.

The first units off the assembly line went to WalMart a few weeks ago.  I would be suprised if you could find one in a WalMart store now.  I have been keeping an eye on the WalMart stores in my area around Philly, and they all sold out almost immediately.  The units should be available in large quantities in Best Buy, Target, CompUSA, etc. very shortly.

Flashback 3 is already on the drawing board!!

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[arcadecollecting]

There's a nice article on this in the September issue of Hardcore Gamer Magazine (shameless plug -- I'm the publisher).

On stands or free PDF download:

http://www.hardcoregamermag.com/download.html

[Stingray]

Flashback 3 is already on the drawing board!!

Is this the rumored FB that will finally have a built in cart port?

-S

[JoyMonkey]

I love Bob's pictures of an original 2600 Defender cart running on the FB2. 

Damn thats cute! Kind-of like a Super Deformed 2600.

My wife gave me a Flashback2 a few weeks ago and I love it! I was a little sick/hungover at the weekend and spent Sunday in bed playing with it. If only I had a pair of Battle of The Planets underoos and was allowed build a den out of the sofa cushions I could re-live my youth even more authentically!

[missioncontrol]

They should have gone with the switches insted of the big orange buttons.........


but I still plan on getting one to take apart

[MPS]

Flashback 3 is already on the drawing board!!

Is this the rumored FB that will finally have a built in cart port?

-S

Well, like I said, we are still in the "drawing board" stage for FB3.  We won't even have the hardware in "prototype" form until (at least) February '06.

Having said that, we are planning for FB3 to be more of a console, and less of a Plug & Play unit.

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[MPS]

They should have gone with the switches insted of the big orange buttons.........

....and the cost of reproducing the original 2600 switches would have raised the price of FB2 by $10+ per unit.

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[MPS]

My wife gave me a Flashback2 a few weeks ago and I love it! 

I'm thrilled to hear that you like it!!!

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[MPS]

There's a nice article on this in the September issue of Hardcore Gamer Magazine (shameless plug -- I'm the publisher).

On stands or free PDF download:

http://www.hardcoregamermag.com/download.html

Thanks for the awesome press!!!

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[Stingray]

Flashback 3 is already on the drawing board!!

Is this the rumored FB that will finally have a built in cart port?

-S

Well, like I said, we are still in the "drawing board" stage for FB3.  We won't even have the hardware in "prototype" form until (at least) February '06.

Having said that, we are planning for FB3 to be more of a console, and less of a Plug & Play unit.

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

Ooh! This kind of tease makes me giddy!

-S

[missioncontrol]

They should have gone with the switches insted of the big orange buttons.........

....and the cost of reproducing the original 2600 switches would have raised the price of FB2 by $10+ per unit.

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

well in that case the orange buttons are fine....



I'm liking what I'm hearing so far for the FB3

please keep us updated on it......

[Havok]

They should have gone with the switches insted of the big orange buttons.........

....and the cost of reproducing the original 2600 switches would have raised the price of FB2 by $10+ per unit.

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

Any switches would have been better than those orange buttons - but keep us in the loop about the FB3. I like the idea of a new 2600 - make it a heavy sixer repro!

I would pay another $15 - $20 more, no problem...

[Stingray]

I would pay another $15 - $20 more, no problem...

Well so would I, but somehow I doubt that you and I are this item's target demographic. This is holiday impulse buying at it's finest. I hope somebody gets one for me.

-S

[MPS]

keep us in the loop about the FB3. I like the idea of a new 2600 - make it a heavy sixer repro!

Who said anything about FB3 being another 2600?   

I would pay another $15 - $20 more, no problem...

I don't think people really understand what a problem it was.  It isn't that we didn't want to use them.  It was a simple matter of economics.  The buttons weren't my first choice either, and I understand that the hardcore classic gaming audience would have spend the extra money for the original switches.

Let me see if I can paint "the big picture" on these manufacturing costs.  No one makes those switches anymore.  Reproducing those switches with a special factory production run would raise the overall manufacturing cost of each FB2 unit by around $10+.  Now, multiply that $10 times the 1.5 million FB2 units that are in the initial production run.  The people who sign the checks for building these units weren't ready to spend $15 Million just on switches.  Once I saw the numbers myself, it made sense not to use them.

If you really want those switches, it is easy enough to hack them in....assuming that you have a broken 2600 laying around that can be used for parts.  I posted a link in a message above with some photos of someone who has already done it.  Making the system "hacker-friendly" for the classic gaming community was something we really strived for.

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[MPS]

I'm liking what I'm hearing so far for the FB3

please keep us updated on it......

I probably won't have any more news that I can share in a public forum until we get to the prototype stage early next year.  I read these boards often for my own arcade cabs I have at home, so getting back here to post news won't be an issue. 

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team

[Stingray]

Who said anything about FB3 being another 2600?   

I sort of gathered that it would not be based on what Curt has said in a thread similar to this one over at Atariage.com

I can't wait to see what it does turn out to be.

-S

[Dexter]

Hello everyone.

I was a bit surprised to see discussion of the Flashback 2 here, but I am pleased to see some interest.

[captainpotato]

Who said anything about FB3 being another 2600?   

I sort of gathered that it would not be based on what Curt has said in a thread similar to this one over at Atariage.com

I can't wait to see what it does turn out to be.

Nobody's done a ColecoVision unit yet, AFAIK, so that'd be nice - especially if it had the 'Turbo' steering wheel

[MPS]

Nobody's done a ColecoVision unit yet, AFAIK, so that'd be nice - especially if it had the 'Turbo' steering wheel

I'd LOVE to do a Colecovision unit.     However, one of the reasons for not doing a Coleco unit is the Coleco library of games.  There isn't enough "original" content in the Coleco library.  Most of Coleco's library was made up of licensed titles -- and any games that would be used would have to be licensed all over again for a new Colecovision.  I think that may make the cost of the unit prohibitively expensive.   

The Intellivision might be a better candidate for the "Flashback 2" treatment as a big chunk of the Intellivision library is made up of original games that would not need to be relicensed.

I know there are some Intellivision Plug & Play units floating around out there.  I have never played one, but my understanding is that they are ports of the Intellivision games to an NES-based unit.  The technology is similar to the Jakks units or even the original Atari Flashback.

I'd like to see the Blue Sky Rangers go back to their original schematics and do a Intellivision based on the same principles as the Flashback 2 -- the REAL games on the REAL hardware.  That would be cool!    

Mike Stulir
Flashback 2 Engineering Team