Macross PCB, Different Version's?

[Falken Hawke]

As I was burning in the replacement RAM on my board, I was watching Del's Arcade YouTube video featuring Yotsuya's Macross cabinet.


I noticed that his attract mode is different from mine. At first I thought it was a DIP switch setting but the only setting is for demo sound which made no difference on or off.

I would like to ask anyone else who has this title if your attract mode matches Yotsuya's.

I just got curious when I saw the difference so would like to see where the rabbit hole leads 😁

TIA

[yotsuya]

How is yours different?


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[Falken Hawke]

After the Macross title screen, my board switches to one of two cinematic cut scenes before displaying the high scores.

I saw one of the cut scenes showing in the picture you posted for your completed project posting so it does show up.  I'm really curious about why they didn't in the video.

[PL1]

After the Macross title screen, my board switches to one of two cinematic cut scenes before displaying the high scores.

I saw one of the cut scenes showing in the picture you posted for your completed project posting so it does show up.  I'm really curious about why they didn't in the video.

Have you tried setting the dipswitches to free play like Yotsuya's cab in the video?

Free play doesn't skip the cut scenes in MAME v0.152 or v0.238, but it might do it on original hardware.

- If free play skips cut scenes on your PCB, that could indicate a minor error in the emulation. (Nothing currently reported on MAME Testers.)

- If free play does not skip cut scenes on your PCB, it appears that Yotsuya has a PCB/ROM variant/bootleg not currently preserved in MAME.


Scott

[Falken Hawke]

Already done, findings have not changed.

I also filled the top 10 high scores with no change so I'm wondering if the game was played to the end when the video was taken.  After all, if it's running in Zapcon, someone probably played it through.

For me, checking that will have to wait.  I don't have the skill to play through the game quickly and I have other things to complete as well.

[Haze]

I think there's a high chance of it being a different code revision.

[Falken Hawke]

Maybe as the pics of his board in his project thread match pics of the board elsewhere.

However, the conditions for the operation of the game at the time of the video versus his photo when he completed his project aren't obvious.  I'm wondering if there is a trigger that isn't well known but I'm not dismissing a different version either.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142020.msg1483020.html#msg1483020

[PL1]

the pics of his board in his project thread match pics of the board elsewhere.

For those who don't want to scroll through the 10 pages of Yotsuya's build thread, here's the post with PCB pics.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1423842.html#msg1423842

Can't tell from those pics  if there are any ROM labels or PCB markings on Yotsuya's board that indicate a version number or release date.

When you first go into service mode (DIP SW1#8 to up), the center of the screen shows "11th Jun. 1992" (cropped pic below) for a second before proceeding to the monitor adjustment pattern.
- I'm guessing that this might be the revision/release date for the version in MAME.
- Do both of your PCBs show the same date?


Scott

[Falken Hawke]

My bench uses a LCD so won't show the first few seconds of power up.  My raster CRT's are buried so it may be a while before I can check.

[bobbyb13]

My bench uses a LCD so won't show the first few seconds of power up.  My raster CRT's are buried so it may be a while before I can check.

Unless you bring it up to my shop that is!
Now you gents have me all curious about what is up.

When you off work again?

[Falken Hawke]

I have a family trip coming up so won't be free 'til next week.  I was thinking about using that tiny cabinet waiting for parts to try this 

[Haze]

the pics of his board in his project thread match pics of the board elsewhere.

For those who don't want to scroll through the 10 pages of Yotsuya's build thread, here's the post with PCB pics.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137636.msg1423842.html#msg1423842

Can't tell from those pics  if there are any ROM labels or PCB markings on Yotsuya's board that indicate a version number or release date.

When you first go into service mode (DIP SW1#8 to up), the center of the screen shows "11th Jun. 1992" (cropped pic below) for a second before proceeding to the monitor adjustment pattern.
- I'm guessing that this might be the revision/release date for the version in MAME.
- Do both of your PCBs show the same date?


Scott

You can't trust the date shown on the NMK games, we've seen multiple cases of completely different builds with the same date, and even different games with the same date.  Either they forgot to update it, or it has some other meaning like the engine date, or project start date, rather than the build date.

Likewise NMK don't seem to do anything to differentiate versions with labels.

The only real way to know is the dump them.

[PL1]

You can't trust the date shown on the NMK games, we've seen multiple cases of completely different builds with the same date, and even different games with the same date.  Either they forgot to update it, or it has some other meaning like the engine date, or project start date, rather than the build date.

Likewise NMK don't seem to do anything to differentiate versions with labels.

The only real way to know is the dump them.

If Yotsuya is willing to dump some ROMs from his PCB, which ROMs are most likely to show if there is a different variant?
- a03 looks promising. (main CPU)
- a08, a09, and a10 might have something relevant. (proms)
- a01, a02, a04, a05, a06 and a07 don't look very promising for the difference noted.  (audio CPU, oki sound chips, tiles, and sprites)

921a03              0524288    maincpu
921a02              0065536    audiocpu
921a01              0131072    fgtile
921a04              2097152    bgtile
921a07              2097152    sprites
921a05              0524288    oki1
921a06              0524288    oki2
921a08              0000256    proms
921a09              0000256    proms
921a10              0000032    proms

Scott

[Haze]

Assuming it isn't a prototype, then it's only really likely that the maincpu ROM will differ, with a very small chance of the audiocpu ROM differing

For games of this period the GFX/Sample/PROMs were usually finalized before release (and are often mask ROMs)

[yotsuya]

If Yotsuya is willing to dump some ROMs from his PCB…

I’ll get right on that….


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[yotsuya]

If Yotsuya is willing to dump some ROMs from his PCB…

I’ll get right on that….


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Ok, might have some time soon. What do you think, Scott, just dump A03?

[PL1]

If Yotsuya is willing to dump some ROMs from his PCB…

I’ll get right on that….

Ok, might have some time soon. What do you think, Scott, just dump A03?

I defer to Haze's experience and judgement on this.

He said that A03 (maincpu) is the most likely to contain different data so that will probably be enough for the MAME devs to add your variant to the "nmk/nmk16.cpp" driver.
- While you're at it, you may also want to dump A02. (audiocpu)

Assuming it isn't a prototype, then it's only really likely that the maincpu ROM will differ, with a very small chance of the audiocpu ROM differing

They may also want some good photos of your PCB to confirm that everything is hooked up the same way as the current version in MAME.

Other info that might be useful is some of the crystal frequencies if you have a way to measure them with a frequency counter or an O'scope.  There have been lots of audio frequency bug reports and fixes recently over at MAMETesters.
 
Not sure where or who to send the dump/pics/info to, but Robbbert might be able to point us in the right direction if we can't get ahold of Haze who hasn't been on BYOAC for several years.   


Scott

[Xiaou2]

Since there are Eyes on this thread... I thought Id mention,  that many many years ago... I went to
an Arcade Auction, which I believe was in New Jersey,  with a few other collectors.

 While there... I saw a Speed Buggy or Buggy Boy (standup cabinet), and it was different from the versions I
remember playing in Mame.

 In the Mame version.. you can run into any flag / flag pole.. to get points.   However, in this version..
if you hit the flag poles.. your Buggy would be bounced backwards.   As such, you had to be EXACTLY
in between each pole, to pass through it, and get the points.

 At the time, I think my memory was a little fuzzy about if the mame version was like that.. and or
if a certain Dip Switch would change the games behavior.  I didnt consider the possibility that it was a
different Rom revision... else Id have reported it.


 I believe that Auction is where I picked up a slightly over-priced Spy Hunter..  which also needed
a new Pedal assembly, due to partially stripped gears.   I couldnt contain myself, as I always wanted
to get my hands on that game.   I enjoyed it for many years.. before eventually being forces to sell
it for much needed cash.  = [

[PL1]

One other thing I forgot to mention, Yots.

You might want to try replacing the "921a03" file in the macross.zip ROM with the A03 dump from your board to see if it "just works" in MAME like the improved/modded ROM version of Sinistar that was mentioned in this thread.

I found that with the modded Sinistar ROMs, you couldn't run them from MAME's built-in UI because they have different checksums than the original.
- If you launch the game from command line, it will warn you that the checksums don't match, but it will still run.   


Scott