Just4fun: buggy boy setup

[gurbzs]

buggy1.txt commandline -syncrefresh - waitvsync
buggy2.txt without above

[Paradroid]

This all looks really fun... I'm enjoying the show so far!

[gurbzs]

Loading up at youtube, here some pics

[Calamity]

Both CPU and GPUs could be the culprit here for the slow speed. They're rather old. Another possible approach would be to use your newer system with the HD 4890 and plug an Nvidia PCI card (whatever non-ATI) to provide the third output.

[gurbzs]

Youtube

[gurbzs]

I thought about using another PCI express card (9250 - x600), PCI radeon 7000!and using XP on the newer system.
I alway like small adjustment and working with what's available.

You mentioned the Nvidia option before, is there a thread about this subject?
Lots of cards here, I think even a trident blade from the advanced mame days

[gurbzs]

Happy newyear everbody!

[gurbzs]

And installed XP on the newer system. I could throw away my official and original xp disc, blue screens of death.
Tinyxp did the job but: it had to be burned on decent media on a slow speed.
Next time I use a USB stick.

Glitches: when installing crt_emudriver 6.5 the screen went mush after restarting.
No panic: turned off computer, booted in safe mode, restarted, all ok after that.

Now wait for a compatible ati card: I ordered a ati x600 pro pci-e.
Pci radeon 7000 already installed. I'm curious about the performance between the older en newer system.

[gurbzs]

new log attached, newer system on two screens, ati pci 7000
The wait is for another pci-e, compatible with drivers and system

[Calamity]

That's good, your log shows nearly 100% speed (99 point something) which is what you get in a normal situation... do you see any speed fluctuation or is it solid? Being the 7000 probably the oldest card you can get to work with CRT Emudriver it seems the speed issues where mostly due to the older cpu. Is tearing too obvious on the secondary screens?

[gurbzs]

Fluctuations are minimal, 2 partial updates.
Sorry: what means tearing, how can I spot it?

[Calamity]

Fluctuations are minimal, 2 partial updates.
Sorry: what means tearing, how can I spot it?

Partial updates are normal behaviour, not fluctuations.
Tearing is when you see an horizontal line dividing the screen up and down so part of the previous frame is shown in the lower part of the screen creating a nasty effect. It happens when vsync is turned off. Once you learn to spot it it becomes impossible to ignore, changing your life to some extent.

[gurbzs]

Absolutely no tearing here

Screen adjustment: 2 identical monitors have no adjustment control.
There's a bit of overscan.
I attached 2 pics: can I raise the dotclock this high?
any tips?

[Calamity]

No problem with the dotclock. Just increase H front porch & H back porch more or less equally and you'll get the width inside the screen. To port your geometry adjustments back to GroovyMAME you need to create a custom crt_range.

[gurbzs]

Wow!

Now use these values in vmmaker.ini? Custom specs line?

[Calamity]

Wow!

Now use these values in vmmaker.ini? Custom specs line?

No, leave VMMaker alone. Those values go into mame.ini. I see you're using 'monitor generic_15'. Change it by 'monitor custom'. Then change 'crt_range auto' by:

crt_range0    15625.00-15750.00,49.50-65.00,2.000,4.700,8.000,0.064,0.192,1.024,0,0,192,288,448,576

Then change the remarked values by your custom ones from Arcade OSD.

[gurbzs]

Awesome!

[gurbzs]

Adding a different pci-e to the system, a x600.
It works with xp, but when adding the old pci radeon 7000 again, windows freezes.

Things that occur:

Bios sends video to radeon 7000 when starting, tried different settings;
System boots fine in xp safemode but freezes in normal mode

Any thoughts/ideas?

This worked with AGP/PCI in older system, maybe the speed differences between pci-e and old pci bustypes are to high?

System: xp32, mobo fg965m, q6600, slots: 1 pci-x16, 1 pci-e x1. 2 pci.
Graphic cards: ati x600 256mb pci-e x16, radeon 7000 pci

[Calamity]

I'd say it is a problem with the driver, not being able to handle both asics at once. The 7000 and the X600 are probably just too different hardware I guess. But this is just a thought.

I'd say the best way to get this working without changing to a dual pci-e slot motherboard is to play with two AGP/PCI 9250 if you have an AGP based motherboard or two PCI 9250s. Not sure if you already tried this.

I also mentioned the Nvidia card possibility, you could use a PCI-e Nvidia card combined with a PCI ATI card, or vice versa. The idea here is to use a card from a different brand whose drivers won't conflict. Of course you'd always use the ATI card as the primary target for GroovyMAME to enable custom video.

[gurbzs]

Doing a fresh xp install now, only pci-e inserted. Former install had 7000 plugged in.
Not giving up yet but I'm afraid it wont work.
I think I have a bunch old of PCI Nvidia cards, what do you recommend?
Is there a thread about this?

(Still focusing on this newer system)

Do ati pci-e x1 cards exist and will that di the trick
I have a x1 slot left

[Calamity]

I think I have a bunch old of PCI Nvidia cards, what do you recommend?
Is there a thread about this?

There's no other thread about this: this is the thread

So what I'd do is to use the x600 as your primary card with two outputs, then put the newest PCI Nvidia card that you have in the PCI slot, for the third output.

I don't think there are PCI-e x1 cards but I may be wrong.

[gurbzs]

Alright, lets take a look at my treasures,  blast from the past.
My options are less then I thought: 2 nvidia agp, 1 ati agp, 3 old pci's

Pics

[gurbzs]

Old system: I could use an ati 3450 agp and a 7000? Wrong combination I think.
Do you see a favourable nvidia, you probably look for soft15khz compability with a bit more gpu horsepower then the agp 9250 thats's now in the systen, this in combination with the 7000 pci

Newer system

I now have a X600 in there, I tried the pci cards just posted but the system won't even start
So another pci nvidia should be ordered?!
Hmm: I think an ati PCI- x1 maybe or another system.

I like an experiment but the stuff also has to work.(4 monitors look at me with eyebrows raised  )

The agp/pci combination from ati was great but a bit old.
Let's seek the same formula on a newer level?

[gurbzs]

The 4 monitors...

[Calamity]

The agp/pci combination from ati was great but a bit old.

As I mentioned in my first post, your best chance is to use a dual slot motherboard.

Otherwise you're forced to use PCI for one of the cards and PCI-e/AGP for the other, that either are highly compatible to the extent to use the same driver (which is unlikely unless they have the same chip) or totally different brands but still have some way to achieve custom video.

I suggested the 9250 because I don't know of newer Ati cards that were sold in both AGP and PCI versions. Yes, the Nvidia card was suggested for use with Soft-15kHz, which maybe is unlikely for such an old card that's PCI based. There are more equations than variables here I'm afraid.

As for the gpu horsepower, that's something mostly irrelevant when it comes to MAME.

[gurbzs]

Thanx for the replies, the pc-part of this project is just too old.
Got to buy me some decent hardware

[gurbzs]

A few simple questions when working with multiple screens:

- I think it is possible to adust CRT range for each screen, I think I saw a thread somewhere here but can't it find yet. Something like crtrange0 - values- screen0 /./display1. Is that correct?
- Is it possible to select the groovymame UI for screen 1 for example? By default it now appears on screen0
(Gamelist)

[lettuce]

This is just great!!

If the sysyem will be used just for this 3 screen crazy setup then you don't need to look at an i7 Intel CPU you'll just be wasting your money as I believe (someone correct me here) Mame still only supports dual core CPUs so anything over an i3 CPU would be a waste. So my suggestion would be to get he fastest clock speed i3 chip you can or  if you want get an i5 for future proofing but I'm not even sure support for more than a dual core proccesor is even on MAME's road map?. But an i7 chip is certainly a waste of money for this type of setup.

Regarding the monitors we have 2 places over here in the UK that have supply of brand new 29" multi sync and also SVGA monitors but they are stupidly priced  . But seems you've done well sourcing some video wall monitors

[gurbzs]

Effective screen is mostly 27", the monitors are 29".
This project is not that special, I 've seen handy guys building cabinets on these forums or code crackers reducing latency and stuff...
Hats off to them!

Thanx for the input of the pc hardware part.
Another system isn't that expensive but my car broke down after the monitor pickup.
Can't blame the trusty volvo after 550.000 km.

As for a system; I've seen systems with q9200's and ati crossfire (2x 4850's) setups for less then €300,-

That should do the trick.

Any answers to my questions regarding crt ranges for multiple screens and how to adress them in mame.ini

[Calamity]

- I think it is possible to adust CRT range for each screen, I think I saw a thread somewhere here but can't it find yet. Something like crtrange0 - values- screen0 /./display1. Is that correct?

No, this is not possible because due to Switchres design it is only meant for one screen, always the number 0. However you could play with the system to achieve what you want. So even if Switchres only handles one modeline at a time, you can store in the system a precalculated modeline for your other screen with its own settings, and map the other screen to this modeline. The condition here is that the resolution label is a different one, so they don't overlap. E.g. if GroovyMAME is picking 320x240@60 for screen 0 you could precalculate a modeline of 320x242@60 or 320x240@59 (notice the refresh value here is just a label and it can store whatever refresh that you want under that label). Then you can use Arcade OSD to adjust the borders/refresh for that modeline, and use e.g. -resolution1 320x242@60 to properly map it to the screen. Also bear in mind that when using a dual head card both outputs will share the same modeline *if* they're using the same resolution, so it'd make sense to hook your two equal monitors this way and the one that's different to its own video card, but this is not extrictly necessary.

- Is it possible to select the groovymame UI for screen 1 for example? By default it now appears on screen0
(Gamelist)

I'd say it's not possible, not sure however.

[gurbzs]

A grid. I calibrated, when testing vertical games, the monitor on top. This one has no hardware screen adjustment. the grid displayed on bottom monitor looks more symmetrical, the horizontal lines at the top monitor are kind of distorted. Can I adjust this with arcadeosd?

[Calamity]

A grid. I calibrated, when testing vertical games, the monitor on top. This one has no hardware screen adjustment. the grid displayed on bottom monitor looks more symmetrical, the horizontal lines at the top monitor are kind of distorted. Can I adjust this with arcadeosd?

Arcade OSD can't help in that situation. It's a typical geometry issue, but one I wouldn't care too much about.

[gurbzs]

Picking this thing up where it was left, got another system (core2duo E6600, asrock mobo) with enough PCI-E options.
Keep ya posted

[gurbzs]

Winxp home installed, 2 x600's, core2duo e6600. The crtemu driver installs nicely 4 monitor screens/outputs. After installation no extra modes or resolution icon in the taskbar. Am I forgetting something? I could use ultimarc's ati driver uninstaller.

[gurbzs]

Fixed it with 6.5 drivers

[gurbzs]

That was wishfull thinking: heavy XP crashes after installing 6.5 drivers on dual X600's. Machine hangs between windows boot screen and starting desktop. Any tips?

[Calamity]

What's the problem with the Cat 9.3 based Emudriver?

[gurbzs]

After a xp home edition install from scratch (original CD>SP2>SP3) they install x600 series first and secondary displays x2 (2 cards) but after restart the screen does not blink as announced, in fact: I think that part of the installation doesn't even show. The part were instructions are given to restart the computer and the screen flashes or blinks. After that I see no 15khz modes and no resolutionswitch icon (galaga)

After that installed this morning 6.5, that looked good 15khz modes and galaga icon) but now the system only boots in safe mode. Uninstalled everything, installed again, and now it's the same problem as with 9.3 drivers.

I made a acronis copy of the clean xp install, trying now xp64.
Any ideas?

[Calamity]

Do you mean there were no 15 kHz modes available from Arcade OSD list after restart?

The galaga icon is a leftover of the time were this thing was a mere replacement of the AVGA (9250) drivers. It's only in the 32 bit version of the 6.5 drivers and I should probably have removed it.

[gurbzs]

Correct. I checked the 15khz modes in display properties adapter, above 640x480 a few appear. I have to check because 3 monitors accept max 640x480 interlaced.
I'll restore the acronis xp32 backup and try 9.3 drivers again for details