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Author Topic: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?  (Read 5710 times)

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Monkee

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GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« on: April 12, 2014, 10:12:11 am »
Hi,
I've been reading this post and it was really interesting and makes me want to try GM on a 31khz CRT (without an ATI card) to see how good it looks like!

I'd like to know what is the recommended configuration of the last GM for this task?
Still this one ?
Quote
Create a 1600x480 (or 2560x480) resolution with VMMaker
Use GroovyMAME leaving -modeline on, with arcade_31 setting and enforcing the -resolution option to pick this resolution for you. That will adjust the refresh while still using a single resolution.
+ effect scanlines.png I guess?

If that works as good as Cools seems to think, then there is almost no reason to try so hard to get the 15khz anymore, right?

P.S.: I know it's not the right place to ask but most likely the only place where I can find the info: Can Shmupmame do the same?

Thanks.
Monkee
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 02:59:32 pm by Monkee »

cools

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 02:45:40 am »
Yeah, should work well. I'm not sure it'll be able to change the refresh without CRT_emudriver though, so games may be sped up slightly. And anything greater than 240 lines will need stretching and shifting vertically.

On a setup with only carefully selected games rather than the full shebang it's definitely worth doing.

Calamity

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 05:57:09 am »
Yes, for 31 kHz CRTs you have basically two options:

1.- Use software scanlines.
2.- Use hardware scanlines if the monitor admits 120 Hz (with black frame insertion)

I theory both should look exactly the same, however I find option-1 dims the colors so you need to correct them later. With option-2 the colors look great but not many 31-kHz arcade monitors support 120 Hz.

Besides, I couldn't manage to use option-1 with vertical games (maybe my fault).

The key for option-1 is the -cleanstretch 2 option combined with an ultrawide mode and. But without an ATI card you'll be on your own if you want custom refresh rates. You can try Powerstrip or Soft-15kHz.


Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Monkee

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 09:08:21 am »
Thanks a lot you two!  :notworthy: That seems really promising!

Calamity, you say that:
The key for option-1 is the -cleanstretch 2 option combined with an ultrawide mode and.
So I'm wondering, if I want to try the hardware scanlines way (I have a 120hz monitor :) ), I should not use cleanstrech 2 and the ultrawide mode?

Cools you say:
anything greater than 240 lines will need stretching and shifting vertically.
Do you mean on the monitor OSD or by the software way?

Calamity

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 12:13:35 pm »
Well I had to rush to go out when I wrote that. The -cleanstretch 2 is not meant to help with scanlines or anything but to be able to use as few resolutions as possible and still get integer scaling in the vertical axis. So in that regard it's useful to apply it in both scenarios explained above. Basically, you'd use:

1.- Software scanlines (-cleanstretch 2, -effect scanlines, -monitor arcade_31 / vesa_480 / vesa_600):
2560x480@60 (31 kHz)
2560x512@60 (> 31 kHz)
2560x576@60 (> 31 kHz)

2.- Hardware scanlines (-cleanstretch 2, -black frame insertion, -monitor pc_31_120 / pc_70_120):
2560x240@120 (31 kHz)
2560x256@120 (> 31 kHz)
2560x288@120 (> 31 kHz)

Both setups are visually equivalent. Notice that resolutions above 480/240 require more than 31 kHz, not a problem for the average PC monitor that can reach 70 kHz or more, but something to care about with a "high" res or tri-sync arcade monitor.

To make sure that GroovyMAME will pick the ultrawide resolutions, and only these, in case you have a set of resolutions for other emulators, you can use this option:

-resolution 2560x0

This will work as a wildcard for resolutions that are 2560 pixels wide. So GroovyMAME will select the best height from the ones available to ensure that the vertical scaling will be integer as long as it's possible.

Finally, you need to define the proper -monitor option to tell GroovyMAME which frequencies are available. Above are the usual predefined ones along with their particular use case, you need to decide which one is good for your monitor. The best is to create your own preset that fits your exact needs, regarding maximum height, frequencies, etc.

Much of the fun of this is to use GroovyMAME to set the right refresh rates for each game. This is trivial if you use CRT Emudriver. Of course if you're not using an ATI card you need to find your way to add those video modes to the system, and then if you want custom refresh rates too, maybe use Powerstrip to produce them. Now GroovyMAME can pass your custom defined modeline to Powerstrip on a per ini base so you could in theory achieve whatever you want provided the card is supported by Powerstrip and you have the time and patience.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 12:17:06 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Monkee

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 12:41:44 pm »
THANKS A LOT CALAMITY!

That seems like a really nice possibility and I cannot wait to check it out.
I still have to buy some new components for the pc but as soon as I'll try it, I'll come here to give a feedback.

The connection between Powerstrip and CRT emudriver seems such a good news for new GPUs !

I know it's not your job but do you know if Shmupmame can also do that, there is still sadly 4 or 5 games that works better with it.

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 01:05:49 pm »
The connection between Powerstrip and CRT emudriver seems such a good news for new GPUs !

Well, the connection is actually between GroovyMAME and Powerstrip. And remind Powerstrip is no longer developed so you won't have luck with new GPUs either.

Quote
I know it's not your job but do you know if Shmupmame can also do that, there is still sadly 4 or 5 games that works better with it.

I guess you can do software scanlines with Shmupmame too, at least. It's a MAME feature after all.

Which games work better and why?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Monkee

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 03:47:33 pm »
Which games work better and why?
Some toaplan games doesn't have sound with GM whereas Shmupmame "fix" that by using a hack that comes from mameplus, it uses "soundtracks" samples for those games.

There is also the autofire option who is pretty nice to have for shmup fans.

Other than that, Groovymame rules!

cools

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Re: GM and 31Khz CRT, what's the current situation?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 02:23:18 am »
The colours washing out isn't something I've seen happening. Its a softer image than 120hz scanlines, though - depends how dark the overlay image is.