Sanwa JLF with Octagonal Restrictor *ONLY* for 4 way games

[McHale]

I'm debating going with either Sanwa JLW's or JLF's with octagonal restrictor plates.  Does anyone use the octagonal plate with 4 way games?  How does it work for you?

If you're using a joystick encoder, MAME will use a default joystick_map so it should work great.  But I use a keyboard encoder so the joystick_map is ignored so you still get diagonals (and related issues).  But since most of the issue is not being able to lock on to your direction, I'd think the octagonal would work pretty well but unable to test.

If you are using a keyboard encoder and half JLF's and an octagonal restrictor, could you try Donkey Kong and Pac-Man and let me know? 

Thanks!

-Mc

[opt2not]

Had JLW+octo-gates in my Cocktail cabinet, and I remember it being annoying, but better than a square-gate. Burgertime and the DK's were the worst offenders...

[BadMouth]

I've had octagons in my JLFs.

I thought they were pretty good for 4-way.  Not as good as a dedicated diamond, but better than the standard square.
It depends on how you use the joystick. 

If you're conscious that it is a 4-way game and move the stick directly from one direction to the other, it will act as training wheels and guide the stick to the correct spot, skipping the corners.  I was surprised how much more I enjoyed qbert with the octagon.

If this is for guests who don't have a clue what 4-way means or you ride the gate, it's not going to be much better than the standard restrictor.

[fleskebacon]

Old topic but, I've recently had to deal with some trial and error with my JLF's. I use it for both 4-way and 8-way games.

I agree that the octagonal resitrictor is the best compromise if you're playing both 4-way and 8-way games. But as with all compromises, it's not really optimal for either 4-way or 8-way.

The best way around is to use the standard square gate for 8-way, and 4-way by rotating the core piece 45 degrees. As far as I can tell this gives proper 4-way, with no way of hitting diagonals. The problem is switching between 4-way and 8-way, because the restrictor plate has to come out so that you can turn the core piece. It has two prongs sticking out of it, but it's fairly impossible to rotate it without taking the whole plate out. And to do that, you'll probably need to open the cp and access it properly from below.

I've modified my restrictor plate so that I can easily flip from 4-way to 8-way by simply twisting the centre piece of the restrictor plate, not having to use any tools or remove the plate or anything. This way I can just reach up from the coin door and make the switch between 4-way and 8-way.

What I did was I just filed down some of the plastic between the two holes that locks the piece in place, so that it locks into position but still can be rotated without any hassle. Probably done by many before me, but still my best mod ever.

[wweumina]

I tried it for a while and found it was ok for both 4 way and 8 way but not great for either (preferred diamond for 4 and circle or square for .  I decided I didn't want a constant compromise regardless of what I was playing so I built two panels.

[fleskebacon]

Totally agree. Comprimises suck. And it's still a compromise, having to switch panels...

Lucky enough for me, I'm quite satisfied with both the 8-way and 4-way operation of the JLF, so I'm all set now.

Also tried a MagStik Plus, but threw it out after an hour...

[zanna5910]

Had JLW+octo-gates in my Cocktail cabinet, and I remember it being annoying, but better than a square-gate. Burgertime and the DK's were the worst offenders...

Hold on.. what?  You got the octo-gates to work on a JLW?  I ordered some octos from Ultimarc and put them on Ultimarc JLWs and they wouldn't hit the corners, they seemed the wrong size.  I confirmed that with Andy at the time.  Maybe they have changed since I did this in 2010.

Anways, I would go square gate JLWs with the servos.  I did and never looked back.  They are great and you dont have to switch between the two and you get the best of both worlds.

[BadMouth]

What I did was I just filed down some of the plastic between the two holes that locks the piece in place, so that it locks into position but still can be rotated without any hassle. Probably done by many before me, but still my best mod ever.

Just out of curiousity I'd like to see pics of the modified part possible.  I've got a crazy auto-switching optical solution with round restrictors on mine and it works well, but I like to know about other possibilities.

The springy tabs that keep pressure against the center part have worn out and broken on mine from swapping centers during testing.
I'd be afraid of that happening if pushing and twisting on them all the time.  I guess they don't travel as far during that process as when removing the center completely though.

[opt2not]

Hold on.. what?  You got the octo-gates to work on a JLW?  I ordered some octos from Ultimarc and put them on Ultimarc JLWs and they wouldn't hit the corners, they seemed the wrong size.  I confirmed that with Andy at the time.  Maybe they have changed since I did this in 2010.

Yup, I didn't have any problems hitting diagonals. Here's a picture of them installed in my Canucks Cocktail cab:



The JLW is a great all-around stick. I plan on using it again in a future project, with the octo-gate setup.

[fleskebacon]

Just out of curiousity I'd like to see pics of the modified part possible.  I've got a crazy auto-switching optical solution with round restrictors on mine and it works well, but I like to know about other possibilities.

The springy tabs that keep pressure against the center part have worn out and broken on mine from swapping centers during testing.
I'd be afraid of that happening if pushing and twisting on them all the time.  I guess they don't travel as far during that process as when removing the center completely though.

Yep, those two plastic tabs keeping the tension on the centre piece broke for me as well, on restrictors i used before the modding. After I modded it, the two spring tabs aren't stressed much, so they keep up.

Here's a pic of it. Don't grind away too much, or the centre piece won't lock in place. Grind away just enough to let it turn without having to push it from the backside. I've lubed it up with silicone grease as well.

[zanna5910]

Yup, I didn't have any problems hitting diagonals. Here's a picture of them installed in my Canucks Cocktail cab:

   I guess I got a bad batch or something.  I need to file them out some I guess.  You definitely have some more clearance in there than I did.  That is an Ultimarc JLW-8 right?

[opt2not]

That is an Ultimarc JLW-8 right?

Correct.

If I were you (or if Andy is reading this), I wouldn't modify it just yet. Get Andy to weigh-in on this issue, his service is pretty top-notch, and I'm sure he'll make this right for you.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I have an I-Cade that I modded with a JLF-8Y joystick.  I put the octagonal restrictor on it and it works great!  I can play Ms. Pacman with the fast hack without issues and then switch to another 8-way game like Raiden and it works good too.

D

[ahofle]

My 2 cents...Square restrictor is unplayable on 4 way games.  As mentioned, octagonal is not as good as true 4 way diamond but is still 1000 times better than square.  I also personally find the octagonal to be better for 8 way games than a square restrictor.  It's much easier to play 8 way schmups when I can hit the primary directions easily as opposed to some random range in the the middle of the square restrictor.

[mgb]

For me, I love my JLW with the round gate and the player 2 JLW with a rotate able square.
I'm not a huge fan of square gates but this stick is typically used in 4-way.
I'd like to try diagonal gates but I'm not crazy about the compromise.

One idea I keep knocking in my head is a somewhat thin metal round with a tight diamond 4-way restrictor either sitting lower and pulled up into action when needed or two halves that come together to bring 4-way.

Thing with a JLF in 4-way mode is it works decently for pacman and the like but can still hit diagonals if pushed hard enough on a game like 1942.

[fleskebacon]

After checking my JLF's, I'm actually able to hit diagonals in 4-way mode. There is a tiny spot between the primary directions that actually will give a diagonal. Wasn't aware of this, but it has never given me any trouble.

[BadMouth]

After checking my JLF's, I'm actually able to hit diagonals in 4-way mode. There is a tiny spot between the primary directions that actually will give a diagonal. Wasn't aware of this, but it has never given me any trouble.

I did some testing to find out whether it was better to have a small gap or small overlap.
(tiny spot where you can hit the corners vs a gap where neither primary is triggered)
It was so close it was hard to tell if it made a real difference, but I seemed to do better on the games with a tiny overlap.
I wouldn't call it conclusive, but I'm convinced that it definitely doesn't hurt to have a small overlap.

EDIT: Hey McHale, mind fixing the thread title so if someone searches for Sanwa JLF info, they can find the thread.