Author Topic: U360 upgraded to Rotary (Read 16589 times)

kmhamel · « **on:** February 26, 2012, 01:20:38 pm »

I have been working this winter on an upgrade to the Ultramarc 360 joystick. The only thing lacking on the original was the rotary function.

Here are some pics of the finished product, Parts needed to mill and the encoder.

Andy is looking at the design to see if it is what he wants.....hopfully he will like it and start producing the parts.

You will need to have a restrictor installed to deal with the added length of the shaft and throw. Otherwise the design will be able to upgrade all existing bat top joysticks. I didn't have a ball top shaft to work with but it would be no problem to adapt the design.

It's not a spinner by any means, but I did play tempest, and it worked great. Mad planets is a blast!! Smooth and fast.

emphatic · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2012, 01:31:36 pm »

Very nice work.

TopJimmyCooks · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2012, 04:48:23 pm »

I'm in for one set if you produce it. Awesome.

GregD · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2012, 05:47:00 pm »

Add my name to the waitlist!

Woodshop Flunky · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2012, 12:20:41 pm »

If this would allow me to play Ikari Warriors on my son's cab... then I'm in for one as well!

TopJimmyCooks · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2012, 12:36:14 pm »

Is that the US Digital E4 encoder?

wp34 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2012, 12:47:29 pm »

Sounds awesome. I assume the handle spins freely and does not have any resistance? I seem to recall the original rotary joysticks clicked as you rotated them.

kmhamel · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2012, 05:43:42 pm »

Quote from: TopJimmyCooks on February 27, 2012, 12:36:14 pm

Is that the US Digital E4 encoder?

Yes it is.

kmhamel · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2012, 05:49:37 pm »

Quote from: wp34 on February 27, 2012, 12:47:29 pm

Sounds awesome. I assume the handle spins freely and does not have any resistance? I seem to recall the original rotary joysticks clicked as you rotated them.

Yes the handle spins but not freely there is a slight resistance, its not a spinner with bearings. The older 49 way rotary sticks have mech encoders not optical and had 12 positions that clicked. You would have a hard time putting a Mechanical on the u360 due to the pass thru for the magnet.

Lormax · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2012, 06:27:36 pm »

Sign me up for at least 2 if you get this going. Possibly 4

wp34 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2012, 06:34:29 pm »

Quote from: kmhamel on February 27, 2012, 05:49:37 pm

Quote from: wp34 on February 27, 2012, 12:47:29 pm
Sounds awesome. I assume the handle spins freely and does not have any resistance? I seem to recall the original rotary joysticks clicked as you rotated them.

Yes the handle spins but not freely there is a slight resistance, its not a spinner with bearings. The older 49 way rotary sticks have mech encoders not optical and had 12 positions that clicked. You would have a hard time putting a Mechanical on the u360 due to the pass thru for the magnet.

Makes sense. I'm interested as well if you get a kit together. This is really cool.

yaksplat · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2012, 09:31:37 pm »

I'm in for at least two when available. Add me to the interested list.

Well Done!

kmhamel · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2012, 01:30:22 pm »

I would love to produce the parts for the community but I have to be realistic. I only have a mini-lathe and mini-mill and it takes about 5 hours to do the parts for one joystick. Turning steel on a mini lathe is a slow process.

If Andy at Ultramarc is not interested in the design maybe we can find a member with a CNC machine. With one of these machines, once it is programed with the dimensions of each piece, can knock one out in about an half hour.

TopJimmyCooks · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:31:35 pm »

kmhamel: Is the encoder wheel machined/customized at all, or is the shaft made to fit through the stock part?

If not:
Encoder: say its $20 each if you buy a hundred based on ~$33 list price part
shaft: milled from round stock, threaded on the end, chromed, probably $20 each if you did a hundred
Plastic encoder housing alignment widget - no clue, say you could order plastic stock and machine 100 for $6, probably cheaper than having a mold setup.
fasteners, wire header, wire - prob. $4 per set.

No expert by any means, and I could be way off, these are guesses.

so by my back of the envelope calculation, the cost of the assembly is $50. probably have to sell it for $80 to $100 is my guess. more if the encoder wheel has to be worked on. Numbers probably look a bit better if you do a thousand.

I don't know what kind of installed user base the u360 has. I'd pay the price of the stick or more to get this capability, but its steep. Pretty soon you have the guys out there that figured out that some rotary games have 12 clicks, 10 clicks etc. and it's hard to satisfy everybody.

I'm certainly in if it becomes available. If not, Kmhamel-consider doing a drawing of the replacement shaft, the widget and a parts list, and you can be famous like Bender with the top fire mod. And I can turn one out when I get my lathe.

scream1973 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:36:13 pm »

Count another interested party.. would love to upgrade my 2 U360s to rotary to play some Ikari Warriors

joe35car · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2012, 09:14:50 pm »

Is it not kind of like this mod?

http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/49-way_2.html

kmhamel · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2012, 11:39:03 pm »

Quote from: TopJimmyCooks on February 28, 2012, 02:31:35 pm

kmhamel: Is the encoder wheel machined/customized at all, or is the shaft made to fit through the stock part?

If not:
Encoder: say its $20 each if you buy a hundred based on ~$33 list price part
shaft: milled from round stock, threaded on the end, chromed, probably $20 each if you did a hundred
Plastic encoder housing alignment widget - no clue, say you could order plastic stock and machine 100 for $6, probably cheaper than having a mold setup.
fasteners, wire header, wire - prob. $4 per set.

No expert by any means, and I could be way off, these are guesses.

so by my back of the envelope calculation, the cost of the assembly is $50. probably have to sell it for $80 to $100 is my guess. more if the encoder wheel has to be worked on. Numbers probably look a bit better if you do a thousand.

I don't know what kind of installed user base the u360 has. I'd pay the price of the stick or more to get this capability, but its steep. Pretty soon you have the guys out there that figured out that some rotary games have 12 clicks, 10 clicks etc. and it's hard to satisfy everybody.

I'm certainly in if it becomes available. If not, Kmhamel-consider doing a drawing of the replacement shaft, the widget and a parts list, and you can be famous like Bender with the top fire mod. And I can turn one out when I get my lathe.

The shaft was designed around the E4p encoder. The screw you see in the photo of parts is screwed on the bottom of the shaft after the encoder is press fit onto the shaft. The shaft is longer in the middle part to accomadate the slider. The slider is designed to hold the encoder to the .010" tolerance and fit on and between the posts supplied with the restrictor. So the only mod to the joystick is the shaft and slider with stock encoder. the parts list is what you see. I tried to make it as simple as possible.

Andy, if anybody, can produce these parts at a good price.

I was hoping that the shaft and slider can be sold for between 15 and 20 dollars with the encoder costing about 20. Than people can upgrade their own sticks.

Let's wait and see what Andy can do. I just gave him the all the measurements last monday. If push comes to shove maybe we can get a few machinist from the forum together and produce them. I have no problem posting the measurments but I wanted to give Andy a chance to do something.....it is his joystick.

Quote from: joe35car on February 28, 2012, 09:14:50 pm

Is it not kind of like this mod?

http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/49-way_2.html

Yes it's something like that, execpt that the u360 is full analog like a flight stick and does become a flight stick with the optical encoder.

yaksplat · « **Reply #17 on:** February 29, 2012, 11:36:57 am »

My lathe is ready to start making chips

kmhamel · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2012, 06:16:56 pm »

Good News!!!!!

Andy at Ultimarc is going to produce the 360 rotary.

With his buying in bulk and production infrastructure the price should be cheaper than producing it yourself...one encoder alone with cable and shipping is $45.

wp34 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2012, 06:27:18 pm »

Quote from: kmhamel on March 02, 2012, 06:16:56 pm

Good News!!!!!

Andy at Ultimarc is going to produce the 360 rotary.

With his buying in bulk and production infrastructure the price should be cheaper than producing it yourself...one encoder alone with cable and shipping is $45.

Awesome! Thanks for doing the legwork kmhamel!

Lormax · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2012, 06:51:39 pm »

TopJimmyCooks · « **Reply #21 on:** March 03, 2012, 06:06:46 pm »

^^^^^^^^

This!

swaffar · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29, 2012, 05:36:16 pm »

Any news on this? Any kinda of feedback from Andy so far? And can we get a youtube video??? Much thanks for any info!

AGarv · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2012, 09:51:23 am »

Waiting excitedly to hear more about this!

Mysterioii · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2012, 12:50:05 pm »

So if Andy has indeed agreed to produce these, will it be as a finished assemby, a DIY mod kit, or both? I *just* received my U360 in the mail last week, still in the box. If it's going to be finished assemblies only then I'll have to check with Andy about the possibility of doing an exchange...

jtslade · « **Reply #25 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:01:14 am »

Any Update on this one Andy, I have some birthday cash that is allocated to upgrading my cab's sticks!!!

Mysterioii · « **Reply #26 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:52:28 am »

What do rotary joysticks typically output... pulses saying "I've been rotated one click left" or "I've been rotated one click right", or an encoded absolute position?

kmhamel · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2012, 01:43:15 am »

***Update***

Andy told me a few weeks ago that he just modded the U360's board so that the encoder will plug right into the board. One usb cable will than handle the joystick, buttons, and rotary encoder.

It sound like he will have it up and selling soon, both as a upgrade and a full joystick.

I have put 4 of my mame arcades out at my Inn for people to play with for the last 5 months and so far no problems . The joystick has held up to a lot of beating from kids and adults. The only problem I had at the begining was the usb kept reassigning but using the "controllerremap" utility fixed the problem.

People are using the joystick to play the spinner games...... One guy told me that he likes to use the spinner with his left hand, which is where the joystick is, so he uses the joystick instead of the spinner. ( I set the spinner on the right side of the panel).

For those who are interested, here's one of the tables that I put the joysticks into:
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?12090-A-modern-take-on-a-classic-arcade&p=112751#post112751

The control panel now has four buttons, U360r joystick, and groovy gamegear spinner for each player.

swaffar · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2012, 04:21:49 pm »

Great news!!! Just in time for me to start planning a new cab (once I finish my pin cab).

jtslade · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2012, 03:55:44 pm »

Bump for the rotary. Bump for the beer. Bump for twisting the U360. Bump for spending money.

tony.silveira · « **Reply #30 on:** July 17, 2012, 05:06:33 pm »

i'm in! i was going to add two more omni2's from ggg so i could do mag trigger stick hacks (that'd be 4 trigger sticks for 2 player vindicators 2) but i'd rather two of these suckers!

now if only the u360's had a removable ball top so we could do trigger sticks on them, it could very well be the most versatile joystick ever, if it's not already

Mysterioii · « **Reply #31 on:** July 17, 2012, 05:56:33 pm »

Um if you order the u360s with the bat top they ship unscrewed. At least mine did. My magstik pluses however seem to have permanently molded on bat tops

tony.silveira · « **Reply #32 on:** July 17, 2012, 06:53:17 pm »

Quote from: Mysterioii on July 17, 2012, 05:56:33 pm

Um if you order the u360s with the bat top they ship unscrewed. At least mine did. My magstik pluses however seem to have permanently molded on bat tops

oh boy thats nice to know! are they standard threaded tops? will ggg hand candy tops fit?

many thanks

AGarv · « **Reply #33 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:42:43 pm »

Shameless bump!

Andy, any word on these?

sho · « **Reply #34 on:** July 29, 2012, 07:49:17 pm »

Quote from: tony.silveira on July 17, 2012, 06:53:17 pm

oh boy thats nice to know! are they standard threaded tops? will ggg hand candy tops fit?

many thanks

Not only do bat tops ship separately but ball tops are removable. I have personally fitted U360s with GGG Hand-Candy™ Joystick Ball Tops.

The fit is not quite the same as the originals, but I would write it down on manufacturing variances rather than different threading (I seriously doubt it's metric vs imperial, then there is no way they would fit at all in my experience).

Quoting the man himself these are modified Sanwa sticks.

hms666 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 07, 2012, 11:31:50 am »

Andy? Any news on the subject ? Gonna get two of these, if price isn't skyhigh.

bjhille · « **Reply #36 on:** October 27, 2012, 09:15:21 pm »

I'm in for two! This would be awesome!

Brian74 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 03, 2013, 02:31:56 pm »

Shameless bump!!

heatseeker86 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 13, 2013, 08:55:44 am »

I havent seen anyone actively pursuing this in quite some time or maybe everyones having a secret conversation on the matter but I believe I have a solution for this. I finally might be able give back to the community! It also uses Benders topfire/LED modification also. Thats right. U360+Topfire+LED+Rotary!!!! Theres a demo of it in my youtube video:

~~~~~~~~watch?v=2cYB5DOP5E4

This required HEAVY modifying of the original U360 to get this to work properly but when done, IT WORKS GREAT. I want to say it was about $120 per stick. A little pricey but it is now the ultimate joystick.

If we are all still interested in this, Ill provide pictures on what I did ASAP. I see a lot of you do excellent documentation on your projects. I dont. LOL

Take a look and let me know what you think.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/Smileys/default/drinking08.gif

Brian74 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 13, 2013, 12:48:17 pm »

I just bought to mech rotarys. Im still interested!!

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