Free roms? (Not illegal ones)

[Skribbles]

Are there any recommend sites that host free roms? Not looking for torrents/hacked roms.

Thanks

[Paul Olson]

The legal roms are available here: http://mamedev.org/roms/

[drventure]

Targ and Spectar have been made freely available? Two of my favs. Very cool. Did not know that had happened.

[Blanka]

Just buy Taito Legends. They are new from 5$ on Amazon, and contain 30 legal roms each.

[CheffoJeffo]

Targ and Spectar have been made freely available? Two of my favs. Very cool. Did not know that had happened.

The old Exidy guys and the guy who later bought the Exidy IP has been pretty decent about making it available -- some free roms and decent licensing terms on some of the other stuff (the 440 shooters come to mind).

[wizkid32]

Sadly, very few roms (that are legal) are freely available.  There are some good ones on mamedev.org, but the classics are still out of reach!  There is one other package that has roms for mame.  If you buy the Midway Arcade Treasures: Deluxe Edition (and get the patches), you can drag and drop the roms for use in mame.  This pack is less than $30 and has 28 games, some classic, some newer.

[wizkid32]

Sorry, I misspoke.    I meant to say that the roms are mame compatible, and the package is base on mame.  Sorry for any confusion.  

P.S.  The patches fix a sound issue with some of the games.  I'm not sure whether they fix the roms, or the emulator, thus I suggested people use them.  In hindsight, I think they are for the emulator, so you might be able to leave them off.

[jennifer]

 
        In the past copyright infringment was a moral issue with me, Those of you who know me can attest to that fact. [and I"m sorry to those who have been subjected to my wrath.] Today after a considerable indepth study on the subject, Well...... not-so-much. Torrents/hacks by themselves are  not illegal, 
 

[Smeghead]

who gives a crap?   

[wizkid32]

I do.
I realize that it is mainly a moral issue, but the law is the law, even if it's not fair.     Hopefully there will be better conditions in the future, but at the moment, illegal roms are just that: ILLEGAL.  Please, do the right thing!

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

By that logic there are hundreds of games that will essentially always be illegal because the company who owns the rights are no longer in business. That's just silly.

[wizkid32]

Since the copyrights are appearently still alive , we have to hope that whoever owns them now will be kind enough to make them public domain, or offer them for sale.  The Exidy ROMs did not used to be legal, but they are now for non-commercial use.  (though I can't see how they could be used commercially, since mame is for personal use only)  This shows that at least some arcade manufacturers are listening to the BYOAC (et al) community. One day, maybe there will be a ROMs section of Itunes...

[Well Fed Games]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how you would find out the copyright holder on some obscure old arcade game? Say, something like Anteater, or the like? Some of these companies made few (or maybe one) games, and there is nothing about them on the internet.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Starting to dig on Anteater. So it's listed as Tago Electronics. I found a Tago conversion notes manual with the address:
http://www.cityofberwyn.com/manuals/Tago.pdf
1909 south great southwest parkway, grand prarie, texas

Looking up that address leads me to the current occupant:
http://directory.wfaa.com/swimming-pool-supplies/grand-prairie/tx
A pool supply company.

Trying to dig a little on the building to see who owned it, so possible members of the Tago team.. I got as far as current tax records:
https://www.dallasact.com/act_webdev/_csvfiles/c0a86ba630d888c65e6041fc4a46a016b7a29aad75c11322705720356.pdf (this link will probably expire)
According to that the current occupant has probably been there since around 2009, so useless.

Digging on the property a little more, since it was a recent-ish sale, i came to this:
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17430325/1909-1911-S-Great-Southwest-Parkway-Grand-Prairie-TX/
Says the building, a warehouse, was built in 1972.

i didn't see any sort of history query on the Dallas county page, so it might not be available that far back online.

[Well Fed Games]

Starting to dig on Anteater. So it's listed as Tago Electronics. I found a Tago conversion notes manual with the address:
http://www.cityofberwyn.com/manuals/Tago.pdf
1909 south great southwest parkway, grand prarie, texas

Looking up that address leads me to the current occupant:
http://directory.wfaa.com/swimming-pool-supplies/grand-prairie/tx
A pool supply company.

Trying to dig a little on the building to see who owned it, so possible members of the Tago team.. I got as far as current tax records:
https://www.dallasact.com/act_webdev/_csvfiles/c0a86ba630d888c65e6041fc4a46a016b7a29aad75c11322705720356.pdf (this link will probably expire)
According to that the current occupant has probably been there since around 2009, so useless.

Digging on the property a little more, since it was a recent-ish sale, i came to this:
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17430325/1909-1911-S-Great-Southwest-Parkway-Grand-Prairie-TX/
Says the building, a warehouse, was built in 1972.

i didn't see any sort of history query on the Dallas county page, so it might not be available that far back online.

Wow, interesting. So, I guess an example of no real copyright owner info out there, although you are probably right, the location is probably the best lead for something like that. I wish I had suggested a game I like more! (Although, my wife loves Anteater, maybe I can buy the rights to it, do an App store port and rake in the money! Mwah-ha-ha-ha!) 

[wizkid32]

Someone should really try to get manufacturers (esp. Nintendo)to offer legal ROMs (available for sale).  If only Star-Roms had not failed!    Other companies would no doubt have seen profit, and followed suit!

[amendonz]

they kinda did... although their approach is to release half-assed ports on xbl/psn

[wizkid32]

Not the same.  I'm talking about drag-and-drop compatibility with MAME, and actual ROMs, not just flawed ports of the arcade games.

[CheffoJeffo]

Since the copyrights are appearently still alive , we have to hope that whoever owns them now will be kind enough to make them public domain, or offer them for sale.  The Exidy ROMs did not used to be legal, but they are now for non-commercial use.  (though I can't see how they could be used commercially, since mame is for personal use only)  This shows that at least some arcade manufacturers are listening to the BYOAC (et al) community. One day, maybe there will be a ROMs section of Itunes...

Exidy (well, crazy Hamster guy who now owns the IP) did a licensing deal for the 440 series of shooters not long ago ... not sure what the terms were, but had nothing to do with MAME.

[Donkbaca]

If you are really interested in it, here is the Copyright law:
http://copyright.gov/title17/

In general, copyright laws are set up to protect indviduals  from having other people exploit their IP for profit.  If you infringe on a Copyright, you expose yourself to possible civil action from the rights holders.  So lets say you download Anteater, and the guy/gal/mindless corporation that owns the copyright decides you are infringing on the copyright and decide to sue you.  What is your exposure? This is assuming that you are not distributing it, that you are using it for home use only and are not using it in a commercial manner.  In other words, you aren't spreading it around and trying to make money off of it.

Well they could:
1) Ask for an injunction.  Basically get the judge to order you knock it off and stop playing Anteater
2) Ask for it to be impounded - in which case they would try to take the PC away
3) Ask for damages and profits - which is hard, because 1) you aren't making any money off of it; and 2) they aren't making any money off of it either so it would be impossible for them to really prove that you are causing them any damage.
4) Ask for costs and attorneys fees - which is up to the court's discretion.  

And this is if they win.  In all likelihood you would just get a letter that said "knock it off" because if they went to trial, really the only favorable result they would get is the judge telling you to knock it off.

But I don't want to go to Jail!  Well you won't.  Its is criminal if
1) You are infringing for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain - assuming its just home use, you aren't
2) You are reproducing or distributing works that have a total retail value of more than $1,000 - you aren't, once again home use, no distributing or reproducing, and it can be argued there is no retail value of anteater, you can't go out and buy it at a retail outlet
3) You make it available or distribute it to the public if you know or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution.  So lets say that you let people download roms from your website.  Well, you are only subject to criminal action if you know that what you are giving away is meant to be sold.  This would be up to the feds to prove.

So basically, in the scenario most of us operate in - we acquire roms and play them at home, not distributing them and not making any money off of them, well we are pretty much safe.

Then there are a bunch of other complicated matters, like, if I own a copy of MKII on my Xbox, is it ok then for me to have a copy on my MAME machine?  But, long story short:

Think of it like trespassing; if there is this big empty house where nobody has lived in for years and you want to cut across it to go to get to the 7-11, well technically you are breaking the law, you are trespassing on land that you do not own, but most people wouldn't think that is a big deal.  This is how I personally view the section of roms owned by dead corporations, or uncertain rights holders. Now If  you decide to build a banastand in a busy shopping mall and start selling frozen bananas, well that is a different kind of trespass all together.  This is how I view copyrights on games that are still commercially viable.

[Donkbaca]

Yeah, its okay to ripoff things that don't make noise or move, I guess....

[CheffoJeffo]

In general, copyright laws are set up to protect indviduals  from having other people exploit their IP for profit.  

One thing I continuously find mind boggling about this forum is that selling/distributing ROMs is a no-no (so all the regulars just do it over on KLOV), but bootleg artwork is a-ok.  We've even got a guy paying people for high resolution scans of artwork so he can turn around and sell it illegally here.

Fair game on that one, although it is hardly mind-boggling. Only one company has ever come after anybody for artwork and they don't own the rights to that artwork anymore.

But, really, nobody goes to KLOV to find ROMs.

[Donkbaca]

Maybe because at the old arcades, you had to pay to play the game, but you could look at the artwork for free, so people think that you should have to pay for the game, but you should be able to get the artwork for free? 

[jennifer]

       OMG Not you guys too .......... Jennifer runs away!

[BadMouth]

Do I have to pay to watch the Donkey Kong kill screen that's coming up?

[jennifer]

   
       The art work, awsome to me as a girl.... more-so today in the interest of preservation. Restoring ,printing, dist.,of art is a expensive" hobby "
profit margins should be realized, copyrights-be-%$#@!!! More people should learn how to take desent scans [@300dpi,  please.]

[wizkid32]

Getting rather off topic here...  (And I started it!  )

[fallacy]

So I have a stupid question that I never been able to find an answer to.  Where do you look to see what version of mame the rom Is compatible with?

[404]

To make a long story short, I have had the displeasure of knowing far too much about the United States DMCA laws and how they affect end users and the current quagmire of digital copyright laws in the United States.

Older games such as these are in a sort of state of limbo that many would consider Abandonware. Most of these games from companies that are no longer around still do have valid copyrights unless the copyright holders have explicitly relinquished rights to the games. Nearly every game linked to on the official Mame website still have valid and retained copyrights. The authors and companies involved have merely offered the games free for personal, non commercial use only. Their rights to the games are still completely intact.

The only proper way to get more games such as these into your hands legally would be to track down the original authors and/or copyright owners and plead your case for the Mame community to either push these out as freeware or publish their creative works under the public domain (relinquishing their copyrights). I haven't been around Mame that much but I'm surprised that I have yet to find a dedicated group of people not already attempting this.

It's the same and at times even worse when it comes to artwork as companies are protected under derivative works clauses. Even if you happen to buy a custom pacman art set for your custom arcade, you or the artwork seller could be committing copyright infringement.

[ed12]

To make a long story short, I have had the displeasure of knowing far too much about the United States DMCA laws and how they affect end users and the current quagmire of digital copyright laws in the United States.

Older games such as these are in a sort of state of limbo that many would consider Abandonware. Most of these games from companies that are no longer around still do have valid copyrights unless the copyright holders have explicitly relinquished rights to the games. Nearly every game linked to on the official Mame website still have valid and retained copyrights. The authors and companies involved have merely offered the games free for personal, non commercial use only. Their rights to the games are still completely intact.

The only proper way to get more games such as these into your hands legally would be to track down the original authors and/or copyright owners and plead your case for the Mame community to either push these out as freeware or publish their creative works under the public domain (relinquishing their copyrights). I haven't been around Mame that much but I'm surprised that I have yet to find a dedicated group of people not already attempting this.

It's the same and at times even worse when it comes to artwork as companies are protected under derivative works clauses. Even if you happen to buy a custom pacman art set for your custom arcade, you or the artwork seller could be committing copyright infringement.

where i need to agree with u to an extent
u must deal with it case by case
for a few instance's
for 1 right now i have the right's to gobal-pga,to edit and re-config the code
to suit the newer need's >hard-ware< etc,because there code team is long gone
there is no holder to bally/william's right's..>gary can claim what he want's he bought the stock olny<,
pinball resourse on the other hand bought the complete right's to gottileb
to my know sega/data-east are still wide open as such
but again with the dmca u tred carefull ground

ed

[ed12]

from how i understand it
he bought the eq. and lic from gottileb-llc
and hold's all right's
he also defend's it to and end
nuwif had to enter into a agreement with him on the system1 board they provide,hence the reason there code for them  >system1< machine's
are provided on there web site
where as system 80 code is held back >write your own< quote un-quote from pual.
pinball resourse will also take u to the wringer if u do art work,plastic's
this is how i understand it
feel free to correct me

ed

[404]

I haven't been around Mame that much but I'm surprised that I have yet to find a dedicated group of people not already attempting this.

And IMO, the more compilations and old games we see for sale on Xbox Live reduces the chances of someone just releasing something else for free.  (Hey, they paid $5 for Final Fight, maybe I can get $5 for Ring King!)

It's the same and at times even worse when it comes to artwork as companies are protected under derivative works clauses. Even if you happen to buy a custom pacman art set for your custom arcade, you or the artwork seller could be committing copyright infringement.

Yeah, but around here we call those people "official forum sponsors."

I kinda got into this artwork BS a little because of some websites I had related to pinball machines.  I was getting grumbling that some of my decals and scorecards and all that junk were infringing.  My attitude was kinda "hah, yeah right.  bring it, sissy" but ISPs drop websites at the merest whiff of credibility if they get a letter in the mail.  When I got a Stern Seawitch, I made some inquiries at the current Stern Pinball company as to whether I could openly host scans and such of the artwork.  The story I got was Gary had turned over all that IP to his ex-wife in a divorce that happened 20+ years ago and nobody really knew who, if anyone, owned that stuff anymore.

If you wondered why some repro outfits got their start making repro Stern Pinball junk that nobody really needed or wanted... there's your answer.

It's never going to be an easy answer really. The most important aspect to keep in mind is whether the company will actually threaten or take legal action against you. The government and your ISP are not the internet police. The copyright holder by law MUST enforce their respective copyright.  The copyright holder must initiate any infringement proceedings be it a cease and desist notice, injunction or lawsuit.

As for the comment regarding Xbox live (and the wii virtual console for that matter). You can clearly see the mess these old copyrights have cause to the game industry by going on the ESRB website for some retro games recently republished and searching for an old game that was published and/or developed by a company that is no longer around. You will more often than not, see a new fly-by-night company you have never heard of has licensed the game somehow/someway.

[ed12]

this is where i luck out with gobal-vr

It's never going to be an easy answer really. The most important aspect to keep in mind is whether the company will actually threaten or take legal action against you. The government and your ISP are not the internet police. The copyright holder by law MUST enforce their respective copyright.  The copyright holder must initiate any infringement proceedings be it a cease and desist notice, injunction or lawsuit.

in the real world they would fource u to a >nda<..

where when i asked them,they agreeded with i can re-code and publish the work...there olny statment was they want the same right
i went okie dokie

ed

[Singapura]

Why I don't bother thinking about the legality of my cab and games.

As shown by the shenanigans of Apple and Samsung and the jolly adventures of the patent trolls, IP law is one of the most crooked, unfair, unclear parts of law there is. You basically have two choices if you're a classic arcade fan: you either don't give a hoot or you stay away from anything that even remotely looks or sounds like IP rights violations. If you are of the second persuasion, you should delete your membership of this distinguished forum and close yourself up in a box.

Not only the roms may be patented or copyrighted. Even the techniques used in the games, the artwork, the shape of the arcade cabinet, the materials used to build the cab, the sounds and music, the fact that it is a sit down, stand up or cocktail may be part of a parent or copyright. Apple tries to patent black, square, flat shapes and brings billions to the table to protect that right! Thank the lords of gaming that people weren't as crazy back in the day or we would have only 1 games manufacturer. I myself would love to be able to use classic roms "legally". Problem is that even the manufacturers that still use their franchises (Nintendo come to mind) won't bring out the original in a convenient way. The only way to be completely certain is to buy an original cab with the original board. My wife doesn't allow me to live if I bring in even a second cab  Unless someone has enough (fire)power to persuade copyright owners to license their wares and bring it out in an iTunes like way there is little hope.

[ed12]

that is pure double talk

HUH

Why I don't bother thinking about the legality of my cab and games.

As shown by the shenanigans of Apple and Samsung and the jolly adventures of the patent trolls, IP law is one of the most crooked, unfair, unclear parts of law there is. You basically have two choices if you're a classic arcade fan: you either don't give a hoot or you stay away from anything that even remotely looks or sounds like IP rights violations. If you are of the second persuasion, you should delete your membership of this distinguished forum and close yourself up in a box.

Not only the roms may be patented or copyrighted. Even the techniques used in the games, the artwork, the shape of the arcade cabinet, the materials used to build the cab, the sounds and music, the fact that it is a sit down, stand up or cocktail may be part of a parent or copyright. Apple tries to patent black, square, flat shapes and brings billions to the table to protect that right! Thank the lords of gaming that people weren't as crazy back in the day or we would have only 1 games manufacturer. I myself would love to be able to use classic roms "legally". Problem is that even the manufacturers that still use their franchises (Nintendo come to mind) won't bring out the original in a convenient way. The only way to be completely certain is to buy an original cab with the original board. My wife doesn't allow me to live if I bring in even a second cab  Unless someone has enough (fire)power to persuade copyright owners to license their wares and bring it out in an iTunes like way there is little hope.

ed

[Singapura]

Maybe you didn't bother to read my post before you made your comment. Your type of postings made me stop bother about BYOAC at all.

Let me put it in a single sentence with short words: I don't care at all. People can act all holier then thou and say they stay away from "illegal" roms. Truth is that it is impossible to know if you are breaking IP laws unless you get a legal opinion. Either you stay away completely or you don't care.

Care to explain where you see the double talk?

[ark_ader]

I used to be the champion for copyright protection, but after seeing the deluge of rom sites and the availability of whole ISO freely available on the internet, I can see my cause being a waste of time.

I have also come to the conclusion that nothing is illegal, except obviously capital crimes.  You can do anything you want. 

If you do get caught by the authorities, and under their rules you are found guilty of anything illegal, they have to prove it in court.  Very expensive for them and you.

Unless you are making a business selling DVDs of the stuff by the thousand, funding organized crime, I can see how something so innocent DVD burning can look.

Other than capital crimes, civil matters are hard to pursue, especially if you do them in your own home.  Who is to know?

I come to this conclusion due to the lack of enforcement of copyright, as the activity is so widespread, the reality is not considered an issue.

Stopping the sources, educating the young, lowering prices, the stopping of scalping on used games at retail outlets (especially at Christmas time) could help.  It doesn't.

It appears that anything not actively sold or protected, and completely unavailable to purchase, is fair game for personal use.  I watched a person's YouTube video (who is active on these boards) demonstrating (advertising?) a front end software with thousands of games playable on the advertised product.  Why this was done is beyond me, but it shows that this type of behavior is acceptable, and advertises that these roms are free to do as you wish.

So what is free roms when you look at what is happening in society? 

Where are the morals that our parents taught us, and the values of doing what is right and just?

[DaveMMR]

Other than capital crimes, civil matters are hard to pursue, especially if you do them in your own home.  Who is to know?

I guess you never heard of the RIAA... 

[ark_ader]

Other than capital crimes, civil matters are hard to pursue, especially if you do them in your own home.  Who is to know?

I guess you never heard of the RIAA... 

And they haven't heard of me either.

I pay for all my music and films.  We are discussing roms not music or movies. 

Music and films is actively sold and reissued.  You should be sued for thousands for procuring music and films you have not paid for.

Code on the other hand is stolen every day. 

[ed12]

the best way around rom code
is to ask to use it mod-it and offer to share it with the owner
we all look at it the same way
ie: we never know what is when we code it
ie: mobo's/speed/hard-ware
so my point is just to ask,very few will turn u down
and yes code is easy to get
for 1 example look at internet-data-base
if a rom was copied it is posted there,lord know's
i have tera-byte's of rom dump's
it is the working code
the fine line here is pepole who steal it and sell it
and claim they wrote it
that is where i get my nad's in a twist

ed