Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: Stern's New Website  (Read 8125 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Pinball Wizard

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 482
  • Last login:June 04, 2021, 03:47:13 pm
Stern's New Website
« on: June 12, 2010, 09:31:19 am »
Well sternpinball.com recently got a major revamp and I'm wondering how everyone likes it. They have started adopting new features and making improvements like the where to play section is now on their website, each game page is actually informative, they now have a forum, running contests, and even started to help you out on buying machines by locating local sellers. Gary Stern also stated on a BLOG post (didn't think Stern knew what that was) that by 2011 you will be able to order a machine straight from their website and have it delivered straight to your home. What's your final verdict?
Where's my gold star :P

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11279
  • Last login:February 25, 2025, 08:29:42 pm
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2010, 02:43:09 pm »
they now have a forum,
Here's your big chance, Xiau2.
NO MORE!!

lilshawn

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7512
  • Last login:June 20, 2025, 12:05:20 pm
  • I break stuff...then fix it...sometimes
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2010, 10:44:12 pm »
i was kinda used to the other site....

i do like the new logo though.

the thought of the forum made me shudder. i can imagine all the stupid assed things that will be spewed on the walls.

lilshawn

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7512
  • Last login:June 20, 2025, 12:05:20 pm
  • I break stuff...then fix it...sometimes
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 10:53:29 am »
It's time the manufacturer listen to the people and give them what they want, regardless of cost.

if you don't make something people want to play, they won't play it...Vendors won't buy it... Stern won't sell them...Stern goes out of business. end of story, and it's sad it has to be that way.

so far all i see is stern:

1- Dumping old ideas as "new" stock
2- Giving the site a good ---meecrob--- try spiff it up
3- Sucker some investor to keeping them afloat
4- Tried licencing names to drum up sales

now all i can see happening is:

1- Nobody is fooled by the "new" stock and they loose their shirts in the process
2- The site being designed to try and increase sales, fails in respect that if you don't already have a contact for machines, and you can't google in the first place you shouldn't buy a pinball machine to begin with.
3- The investor money will allow stern to dump out maybe 1 more good pin or 2-3 lousy ones...which do you think they will do?
4- Licencing only adds additional and unnecessary cost to a machine, resulting in cheap assed cost cutting moves to get the bottom line down. Ultimately producing a pin that people dislike playing. how long before we see ANOTHER "Family Guy/Shreck" table? I'll call it now and say it's going to be the "Iron man" table but it will be plastered with whatever Gary Stern happens to get as results when he googles "new movie"


At the end of the day Stern needs to be in the positive with regards to their cash flow and I'm not entirely convinced they have both hands on the wheel when all you see is weeds.

Jeff AMN

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1213
  • Last login:July 25, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
    • Gamer Theory
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 01:39:06 pm »
I'm glad most people that whine about Stern don't run Stern. They would have gone bankrupt and shut their operation down a decade ago. It sucks, but licensing is a must. People won't walk up to Generic Pinball Machine A anymore. They need to see something to have them walk over and take a look. Licensing is really cheap, and I'm sure it more than makes up for it in sales. I know many distributors and they have flat out told Stern that they will not stock anything unless it's a recognizable license. Big Buck Hunter was confusing to many pinheads, but the distributors loved the idea. Iron Man was a massive hit with distributors as the license is white hot right now.

The Shrek redesign was not a cash in. It was an instance where operators complained that the game wasn't family friendly enough and Stern decided to offer an alternative theme to a great design. And yes, the design that Lawlor put together for that game is fantastic and the rules are very sophisticated.

If you don't like Iron Man or Big Buck Hunter, that's fine, but to just sit there and make up crap about what's going on is just dumb.
http://www.CoinOpShippers.com - The lowest rates on pinball and arcade shipping in the USA.
.
http://GamerTheory.com - Video Game News, Reviews, Editorials, and Contests
.
http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/ - The Pinball Podcast - Two Pinheads Talking Pinball
.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 11:06:41 pm »
heh.  Your making up crap and excuses.

 Ive walked up to licenses machines and Not added coins into them.  In fact,
Ive never played a batman machine, ANY of them... and I LIKE Batman.

 And games that I have walked up and played that ended up sucking... I never played again.

 In fact, Ive put more money into non licensed games in my entire life than licensed games.

 Its not about License anymore.  Especially today!  Its about great design, durability,
and high quality...  all of which Stern Fail miserably for.

 In the past, video games really gave pinball too much competition.  Not to mention,
the video tended to actually Work 100%, unlike the broken pinball machine.
(the biggest reason for pinballs demise)    But today?  Theres NO competition out there.

 
Quote
but the distributors loved the idea.

 Uhh, so a bunch of suits THOUGHT that it would be a good game.  How many ops got
burned by a pile that nobody really wants to play more than once?  And the home
buyers will refuse to take off their hands.

 
Quote
If you don't like Iron Man

 Sorry, But I liked Iron Man "AS A MOVIE".  As a Pin, it didnt attract me at all.  Just looking
at its generically boring and baron layout was bad enough.

 
Quote
The Shrek redesign was not a cash in. It was an instance where operators complained that the game wasn't family friendly enough and Stern decided to offer an alternative theme to a great design. And yes, the design that Lawlor put together for that game is fantastic and the rules are very sophisticated.

 It was a huge stink bomb.  Anyone Op stupid enough to have bought one,
deserves the financial ruin they reaped.


 All you are is a Fanboy. Your just as bad as the Pathetic suits who think they
know whats best for Pinball.  All their excuses are attempts to justify their stupidity...
but the truth is right out in the open...  Their ideas on how to run things isnt
working.  Not because there is no interest in Pinball, but because the demand
for Their  worthless generic crap, is LOW.


 
 
 

studmuff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • Last login:September 30, 2012, 09:40:15 pm
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 11:23:24 pm »
Its not about License anymore.  Especially today!  Its about great design, durability,
and high quality...  all of which Stern Fail miserably for.

So which games had the greatest design, durability and quility?

Q*Bert_OP

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2089
  • Last login:October 25, 2012, 07:20:42 pm
  • Oh yes, we did!
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 11:37:35 pm »
Its not about License anymore.  Especially today!  Its about great design, durability,
and high quality...  all of which Stern Fail miserably for.

So which games had the greatest design, durability and quility?

Gottlieb system 3!

Durability except the playfield finish. Sadly, they never went beyond lacquer and a mylar overlay.
WTB: The Grid by Midway (2001), looking for 2 or more complete games, and large marquee

studmuff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • Last login:September 30, 2012, 09:40:15 pm
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 11:50:29 pm »
Its not about License anymore.  Especially today!  Its about great design, durability,
and high quality...  all of which Stern Fail miserably for.

So which games had the greatest design, durability and quility?

Gottlieb system 3!

Durability except the playfield finish. Sadly, they never went beyond lacquer and a mylar overlay.
I've played Class of 1812, StarGate and Freddy.  I'm not a real big fan of gottlieb myself. 

I personally like Williams/Bally WPC the best but I like a wide variety of games from different times and companies. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 12:14:43 am by studmuff »

Jeff AMN

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1213
  • Last login:July 25, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
    • Gamer Theory
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 12:19:01 am »
Xiaou2 is good at randomly capitalizing and misspelling words, but he's never managed to randomly stumble onto anything remotely intelligent to say. It's sad, really.

Anybody who thinks that there's a demand for pinball these days is delusional. There hasn't been a true demand for pinball since the '90s.
http://www.CoinOpShippers.com - The lowest rates on pinball and arcade shipping in the USA.
.
http://GamerTheory.com - Video Game News, Reviews, Editorials, and Contests
.
http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/ - The Pinball Podcast - Two Pinheads Talking Pinball
.

smartbomb2084

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 654
  • Last login:January 13, 2021, 03:14:53 pm
  • Having a SMART phone will make you DUMB.
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 08:23:49 am »
Sounds like it's STERN bashing time again around here.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 10:04:19 am »
Quote
So which games had the greatest design, durability and quility?

1) Number one problem with Pinball is Durability.  Its exactly what drove people
away from playing a game. 

 An underpowered Flipper for example, will ruin the games designed flow.
(For ex: Cant make it up the ramps) An OP does not always catch or fix the
problem quickly enough to keep from souring plenty of peoples opinions and desire to play again.

 Even the simplest of things, such as plastics, break quickly, because they are not
made thick enough, and or made of something like Lexan, which is far more
impact resistant.

 I could go on and on about mechanical faults and Intelligent software fixes that
SHOULD have been put in place Long Long ago.  Had they been Smart, Pinball
never would have died off so quickly and easily.

 I also believe Gotlieb was mentioned merely for the reliability of their
electronics, which from what I heard, used military grade components. Smart
move... however, many of their designs were just not that good.

 Durability is even more of a factor today than ever... especially from the
remaining ops who barely even want to try to invest in a machine.  Low profits
and high repair cost / efforts, is the death blow.  And then there is also the home
buyer, who might be interested in a machine... but scared off by the horror
stories and bad experiences of machines that constantly are breaking down.

 Why do I know?  I used to MANAGE a Mall ARCADE FOR 3 YEARS!  Finding
time to rip apart pins for cleaning was hard enough... let alone trying to get
them working 100%, and keep them that way.  And that was with me AT the
location 45hrs a week. Of the 45 games there, the pins took more time in
maintenance, cleaning, diagnosis, and parts... than anything else. 

2) Quality:  Quality can mean a lot, and very simply put, the 90s Williams erra
games had some of the best Quality.  From Artwork, Sounds, and well tested
playfield designs. 

 Sterns use of a Low resolution printer to make playfield and other artwork is
a classic example of Low Quality.  Pinball is supposed to be a work of art.  As
such, it should require the efforts of REAL ARTISTS!!!  Not photoshop designers
that can only cut and paste others art/photos.   

 A classic example might be a game like Theatre of Magic.  The playfield and
Cabinet art is Great!  If stern had made this game, the evil rabbits would have
merely been photoshopped pictures of bunnies, with some Magican like
Copperfield in the center.  Very generic & boring. No soul. No inspiration to play
it... let alone want to pop the thing in your gameroom.

 Another great one is Tales of the Arabian knights.  While Im not too hot about
the backbox or cab art... the Playfield is dazzlingly beautiful.  Such beauty
is what attracts people to even try a game. 
 
 Some may not know this... But traditional Pinball art is made using a process
called Screen Printing.  This process produces artwork with superior color
and resolution than any other process.  Try printing Neon colors on your Inkjet
and you will quickly see what I mean.

 Being that Stern uses something like a vinyl print thats cleared in place with
a thin soft clear... it Dimples (small dents) like Mad.  This not only effects the
look of the game, but also the balls speed and spin.. and eventually, the ball will eat right through it.  Its probably the most poorly made field ever produced.


 Another aspect of Quality... has to do with Features.

 Sterns features, such as functional toys, are usually very poorly implemented.
Originally, a game like LOTR was at least decent.  The sword ball lock was
very pretty, AND functional.  The magnetic eye was also very good. Lots of little
details that stood out...  (However...  the Path of the Death was crap, and a poor
design choice.)   But then as Stern progressed, less and less toys appeared, and
many were non functional, ugly, stupid, too few and too limited.

 Then again... When you chose a pathetic Theme like Ripleys... No amount
of functional toys or even great artwork, is gonna save that Big Steaming Dump
of a theme.

 Games like Spiderman have almost no features, and the few it does have are
no fun at all.  Its probably the most boring game Id ever played... and I only
played it cause it was Free.  Features are what keeps interest in a game.  I dont
care if Spiderman has the most deep rulesets...  Its like the Sahara desert.  Its
baron of any inspiration to even play it.

 Of course, Features like Stereo Hi-Def sound, Should be in Pins. Its frickin 2010!
(heck, quadraphonic sound with a sub, and Holographic recordings (dual mic's over a human dummy head)  should be the standard today)


 Great Sound Quality & Composition is something that can save even the worst
things.  Look at how many old video games had some of the worst graphics,
and yet, the sounds were so good, that it changed the entire way you experienced
those games.

 Great compositions are Timeless.  Just ask anyone about "Martin Galway".
Some of his commodore 64 compositions are Epic.  Its people like him who
are probably to blame for selling more games than ever would have been
possible without his genius musical compositions.   Today, people still remake
and listen to his original tunes.

 While the thought may have been that location based pins barely can be heard,
so "why put in good sound?" had a partially good reason... Its just not the same
today.   These machines are going into peoples homes, where quality is really
noticed.  Substandard compositions, low sample quality, non-synths,
mono-sound, etc... all add up to a huge Frown.

 For a game that costs Thousands of dollars to own, the thing should be
Loaded to the gills with high quality features.  Heck, you can fit an entire library
of High Quality stereo surround sound music on the cheapest Mp3 player.
There are also Audio sound cards for PCs that have 6 speaker surround sound
for like $10 in bulk. 

 The nickel and dime attitude is not working.  People desire and expect
high quality... especially today.   This isnt the 60s, where you could get away
with a few simple chimes.

Quote
Anybody who thinks that there's a demand for pinball these days is delusional. There hasn't been a true demand for pinball since the '90s.

 Actually, there is more demand now than there was in the 90s.  There are more
people in the world today, and all the people who grew up playing pins now
want one.  And people who have played virtual pinball are getting the itch to
play the real thing.  Collectors children who have grown up, as well as
grown neighbor kids/friends,  are also wanting their own machines.

 Btw - Did you notice that this very site has only Recently added a pinball
section?  Have you noticed the various virtual pinball sites blowing up?
Have you noticed the number of people building LCD based pins? (and
then eventually getting a real pin)  Pinball is still in demand. Always will be.

 And correction for u: Pinball was far more in demand in the days before
video games, NOT the 90s. (And even probably into the 80s, where videos were
still getting a foothold.  The 90s made some of the best machines, however, the
fact they broke too easily.. coupled with high competition, meant poor income,
thus poor demand.

Jeff AMN

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1213
  • Last login:July 25, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
    • Gamer Theory
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 11:23:59 am »
 :laugh2:
http://www.CoinOpShippers.com - The lowest rates on pinball and arcade shipping in the USA.
.
http://GamerTheory.com - Video Game News, Reviews, Editorials, and Contests
.
http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/ - The Pinball Podcast - Two Pinheads Talking Pinball
.

Flake

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1019
  • Last login:January 11, 2025, 01:16:20 pm
  • I am Evil Homer....I am Evil Homer....
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 11:26:30 am »
 :blah: :blah: :blah:

Hasn't this discussion happened in 42 other threads...almost verbatim?

I will have to agree though that pinball demand is dead.  I took my daughter to Chucky Cheese a couple weeks ago.  Guess what I saw?  One POTC pinball machine.  That was it.  Guess what....noone was playing it other than me.  Guess what else?  It was in perfect condition.  No broken anything.  What does that tell you?  Nobody is playing it.  If pinball were in demand....there would be more machines there.  

There is a place close to where I live called CP Pinball that has 65 games set on free play and all it costs you is $10 to get in.  He is only open two weekends a month....he would prefer to be open more than that but there is not enough demand for his place to justify keeping the power on.  

Xiaou2 you may see demand for pinball but thats because your involved in the community.  Anyone who doesnt have a diehard fascination with pinball (this being the majority of the population) doesnt give two craps about pinball regardless of if it is Stern or Williams popping out new machines.  I'm sure this is why licensed themes are a necessity because nobody would walk up to a pinball machine with a picture of an evil mermaid on it.  They walk up to it because they see Iron Man, and their brain says...hey I like Iron Man....maybe I'll play that game because its based on the Iron Man movie?  

And your fascination with sound also has nothing to do with the death of pinball.  I have a SWT machine in my basement that I purchased willingly and the sound on that machine is fine....perfectly fine....just as good as my Williams Cyclone.  In fact I prefer the SWT sound....you know why?  Because its frieckin star wars!

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11279
  • Last login:February 25, 2025, 08:29:42 pm
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 11:27:46 am »
 :dunno

NO MORE!!

Jeff AMN

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1213
  • Last login:July 25, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
    • Gamer Theory
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 12:11:24 pm »
If you ask me, Pirates serves better as a coat rack than a pinball machine...

Anyway, pinball is dead. I was at an arcade yesterday that has a full row of pins (we have two fantastic arcades with about 15 pins each), and I was the only guy playing pinball for the 2 hours I was there. The redemption games and the video games were alive with activity, and this is how it normally is. It's not a pricing issue either, because this is a nickel arcade. And before anybody wants to say it's because they were bad games, here's what they have at the first location:

- Twilight Zone
- Indiana Jones
- Scared Stiff
- Cactus Jacks
- Goldeneye
- Who Dunnit?
- Cyclone
- Black Knight
- The Addams Family
- A few more I can't remember right now

So yeah...NO STERNS, and yet nobody was playing. They're in 100% working condition, clean, and nobody cares. The second place sometimes sees a tiny bit more attention on the pin row, and they have (as I can remember now):

- The Addams Family
- Revenge From Mars
- Roadshow
- Space Invaders
- Black Rose
- Monopoly
- The Getaway
- High Speed
- Simpsons Pinball Party
- Terminator 2
- Hook
- Roller Coaster Tycoon
- South Park
- Maverick
- Jackbot
- A couple more

At peak hours on a Saturday afternoon you're lucky to see 2-3 people checking out the pins, but try getting on some JAMMA crap and you'll need to wait for your turn.



I took that on a Saturday when the arcade was packed. The guy that owns both of these arcades is a pinball machine collector. He doesn't put them out there to make money (they don't make much), but to keep a place to play available for the local area. Aside from a few hardcore pinheads like myself, the general population simply doesn't care nor do they appreciate clean machines that work 100% and can be played for 10 cents.
http://www.CoinOpShippers.com - The lowest rates on pinball and arcade shipping in the USA.
.
http://GamerTheory.com - Video Game News, Reviews, Editorials, and Contests
.
http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/ - The Pinball Podcast - Two Pinheads Talking Pinball
.

Flake

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1019
  • Last login:January 11, 2025, 01:16:20 pm
  • I am Evil Homer....I am Evil Homer....
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 12:28:38 pm »
Well there you go, good line up of pins, well maintained, busy arcade, no one playing.  If you ask me that pretty much wraps it up........until Xiaou2 takes his lunch break......

 

LLUncoolJ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 668
  • Last login:April 23, 2015, 03:08:00 pm
  • This snowflake tastes like fish sticks!
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 04:51:25 pm »
I got semi-wood looking at that arcade picture. Other than D&B's which is across the city and expensive, there are no arcades around here...especially with pinballs. The places that do have coin-ops are kiddy casinos (Chucky Cheese and the ilk). CP's is an oasis, but it's only open 4 days a month, so you'd better have a plan.
You probably remember me from such films as `The Revenge of Abe Lincoln' and `The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'

Gameroom pics at http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89006.40

JeepMonkey

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 653
  • Last login:July 13, 2012, 01:51:24 pm
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 05:43:50 pm »
I agree, pinball is all but dead.  There are so few machines on route here that you rarely see them.

I bet I play 90% of my public pinball games at auctions.  It really is about my only chance to go somewhere that has multiple machines.

A little OT - My friend brought his two kids (four and six) over to my house a couple Saturdays ago.  They had never seen or heard of pinball before, but they had a blast playing on my pins.
Pins:  Theatre Of Magic, JP The Lost World, Revenge From Mars

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11279
  • Last login:February 25, 2025, 08:29:42 pm
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2010, 07:59:53 pm »
They should redesign the general body so it looks "current". The body style of a pin hasn't changed since wedge-heads went out of style. The orange DMDs don't help either. They look 1980's, just like how red or blue digital score displays look "70's", and mechanical reels look "50's" / "60's". I'm convinced young people see these things as "dad's Buick".

Asides from a fresh look to appeal to younger crowds, they could easily add redemption features. Has that been tried? The Super Mario pin spits out tickets (doesnt it?), but its small and made for kids. I'm talking about appealing to teens and 20-somethings; normal sized pinball playfield and no compromise to the gameplay, but have features that award tickets. Hell they could make it a button where you get a free game or convert the free game to tickets, thereby pleasing both types of players.

NO MORE!!

JeepMonkey

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 653
  • Last login:July 13, 2012, 01:51:24 pm
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 09:21:20 am »
I think RayB is right on about the orange DMD.  LCD maybe?

Something I think might help would be to make pinball more of a competition for multi player.  In all pinball I have ever played, player one takes his turn until his ball drains, then player two, etc.  Maybe it could be more like Golden Tee where each turn is not just one of the three balls you are given, rather each turn is shorter with smaller objectives rather than just a free-for-all at anything on the playfield.  I think this would keep people more engaged in the machine.  Maybe a bit of the feel of the old baseball pins?
Pins:  Theatre Of Magic, JP The Lost World, Revenge From Mars

LLUncoolJ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 668
  • Last login:April 23, 2015, 03:08:00 pm
  • This snowflake tastes like fish sticks!
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 10:57:12 am »
Yeah, like it or not, I think the only way you make money off of pinball is to have it spit tickets. Like I said, almost all arcades are kiddie casinos nowadays. I'm sure they could build a retrofit for the coin door...or a replacement door that will spit out a ticket at certain scoring intervals. All of these places have multiple skeeball alleys...because they spit out tickets. Granted, the average game of skeeball vs the average game of pinball probably is fraction of the time and therefore a better money maker. But the presence of pinball may entice people like us to tolerate the likes of Chucky Cheese and actually consider having a kid's b-day party there.
You probably remember me from such films as `The Revenge of Abe Lincoln' and `The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'

Gameroom pics at http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89006.40

MikeDeuce

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 359
  • Last login:September 15, 2013, 04:38:38 pm
  • It does a body good.
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 11:39:34 am »
I think RayB is right on about the orange DMD.  LCD maybe?
Does pinball 2000 count? The novelty of it alone doesn't seem to keep it from being ignored at the arcades I've seen them in :\

In all pinball I have ever played, player one takes his turn until his ball drains, then player two, etc.

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=1316 + http://www.pinballrebel.com/game/pins/joust/joust_pinball.htm :)

I'm not sure of its popularity in general, but the lady-friend and I found ourselves amused... felt like a cross between air hockey and pinball.

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11279
  • Last login:February 25, 2025, 08:29:42 pm
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 12:09:22 pm »
I think RayB is right on about the orange DMD.  LCD maybe?
Does pinball 2000 count? The novelty of it alone doesn't seem to keep it from being ignored at the arcades I've seen them in :\
That's a good point.
NO MORE!!

JeepMonkey

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 653
  • Last login:July 13, 2012, 01:51:24 pm
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 01:28:28 pm »
@ PBJ

Yes it is a long shot, but I would bet that if giving pinball an entire overhaul, enough to completely turn us 1%ers away, to capture a few percent of the non pinballers, traditional pinball would go away.
Pins:  Theatre Of Magic, JP The Lost World, Revenge From Mars

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11279
  • Last login:February 25, 2025, 08:29:42 pm
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2010, 04:57:40 pm »
Maybe switch to blue DMDs.  ;D
NO MORE!!

LLUncoolJ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 668
  • Last login:April 23, 2015, 03:08:00 pm
  • This snowflake tastes like fish sticks!
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2010, 05:55:19 pm »
or LCDs with naked chicks.
You probably remember me from such films as `The Revenge of Abe Lincoln' and `The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'

Gameroom pics at http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89006.40

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2010, 04:54:31 am »
 Pinball was never meant to be played by little kids.  They were originally gambling
machines, at Bars.

 The majority of kids that try them are turned off by:

1) The size.  They can barely even see the playfield, let alone see the proper perspective.

2) The difficulty. Unless you know tricks like Nudging, your playtime per ball could be in
the seconds... and feel very disappointing.

3) Complexity. Original pins were very simple, & required you to nudge. They played
about 50% slower (Reduced playfield angle, less powerful coils, etc) ,which made nudging
& controlling the ball much easier.  The ball sorta "Floats" rather than "Rockets" around.

4) There is no "Attraction" showing anything play... such as a video game which
shows itself playing a game, and how that game works.

5) Glare. There is often too much glare on the glass. Overhead lighting is often to
blame... but it can also be sunlight too.

-----

 To make a Kid friendly pin, you would have to:

1) shrink the cabinet height
2) make a backbox with an LCD Attract display
3) place flippers closer together - and or:

  a) make each ball timed,  or
  b) game is set length with bonus time based on score/or when times up & last ball ends.

4) Kid friendly theme w/ vibrant colors
5) Slower game, like the old EMs.
6) Very loose tilt & easier to move machine.
7) Bulletproof Cabinet: Kids are very abusive.
8) Some sort of Anti-glare coating or enclosed light-shield.
9) Spits out tickets
10) Some Speakers closer to front, making easier to hear over loud enviornment.
 

Jeff AMN

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1213
  • Last login:July 25, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
    • Gamer Theory
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2010, 08:32:45 pm »
They'd completely lose the home market if they made those sort of changes and most pinheads would stop paying attention.

When demand for games on location dried up, so did the demand for new games. It's hard for today's operator to justify spending $4,000 on a machine to put on location when they could get 3 for that price and make a return on their investment much faster. It puts Stern in a tough position and creating new styles of machines would be a big gamble and they're probably 1 or 2 more flops away from closing their doors. Luckily Iron Man has sold well.
http://www.CoinOpShippers.com - The lowest rates on pinball and arcade shipping in the USA.
.
http://GamerTheory.com - Video Game News, Reviews, Editorials, and Contests
.
http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/ - The Pinball Podcast - Two Pinheads Talking Pinball
.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2010, 12:20:52 am »
Quote
Not bad ideas, but you've pretty much described every redemption game at Dave & Buster's.

Maybe those ideas would 'save pinball' but would you and I want to play those things?  I wouldn't.

 I was describing what would draw a younger crowd, & possibly an introduction
to pinball... Not what would save pinball, and not what should be done.

 However, its not impossible to create some hybrid tech, such as a Selectable
skill level for Children, that would pop up a stopper between the flippers during most
of their play.  Thus not effecting the gameplay & design of typical pins, yet getting
a younger gen interested in play, rather than turned off by frustration.


 My point is that Pinball is in Demand: In the Home.  Most all the Thousands and
thousands of Produced from eras of 1950 to 2000, are in home users hands.
If one were to take a full count, the number would be shockingly high.  And yet,
there still is demand for more.  Especially for certain well designed titles.


 Location based Pinball still Could work.  But there has to be much more draw than
yesturyears technology & ideas.

 A very simple idea, would be the ability to network pins & to the internet, giving rise
to competitions, worldwide score data, On-the-fly updates (or purchasable new
updates: new voicework, new modes, new sounds, etc), possible webcam interactions
(or trash talk via Mic), and more.   (No internet Lan lines?  Use included Wireless chip.)

 Special printed cards with magnetic strips could track your Scores, Rank, Stats,
and used as a sort of "Continue" to unlock more things in the game over a long
period of plays.  The cards could also be used as like redemption games, where
points gathered could be used for prizes, discount coupons for local restaurants,
etc.

 The "backbox" LCD,  could be used not only for the games own advertisement and
showing how to play... but also could be used to advertise products.  The sales
of the adds, adding to revenue.

 I could go On and On about what could fix things... but heck, nobody is paying
me a dime, so why bother.  Stern will just fumble it all up no matter what, cause they
have a Donkey-Rear in charge.

Jeff AMN

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1213
  • Last login:July 25, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
    • Gamer Theory
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2010, 02:31:37 am »
The networking would be cool for location-based play, but people at home would just pull the glass off in order to get their names on the top of the leaderboards. All that would also further drive up the cost of the machines, which only compounds one of the biggest issues with pinball today.

As much as we love pins, it's time to admit that pinball is on it's last leg, and that leg isn't looking too healthy.
http://www.CoinOpShippers.com - The lowest rates on pinball and arcade shipping in the USA.
.
http://GamerTheory.com - Video Game News, Reviews, Editorials, and Contests
.
http://www.thepinballpodcast.com/ - The Pinball Podcast - Two Pinheads Talking Pinball
.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2010, 02:53:02 pm »
The Comp thing was for monitored locations only.

 However, there is nothing to stop home users from individual comps.

 As for cheating, a small live video cam stream could solve that as well.

 As for costs, its not really a factor.  They are using 20yr old technology in
Sterns pins today.  

 A soundcard with surround sound might have cost $3000 20yrs ago. However,
today, the card costs about a dollar in mass purchase.  $10 retail.

 The increased costs of features that would actually add to the pinball experience,
would not cost too much more.  And when you want to make money, you have
to Spend money. Put out crap, and thats exactly what its worth.. crap.

 Your $4000 quote is nothing for an Op.  Have you ever looked at the prices of
NEW games?   They are Not cheap.. especially the larger sitdowns.  Sure, an
Op could throw a cheap USED game in there... but most old video games dont make
crap.   A new video, such as a fighting game, will make a lot of money for the
first 6 to 8 months... and then, make almost nothing after that period.
Side scrollers?  Once you beat them, you dont feel the need or desire to do so again.


 Edit:

 And Yes, Jim is correct, Software can be intelligent enough to track problems.
For example, if only one ball was in play, and two targets were struck at the same
time (or too far apart for the ball to have hit them both), then it would register
as a problem, and log it.  Logs would be compared, and excessive problems would
easily be identified as cheating.

 The same kind of software, that should be in play to intelligently figure out when
a ball is stuck somewhere (too allow tilt to shake machine without player loss),
to detect when assemblies are not working (adjusting software rules to compensate),
and much more.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:04:22 pm by Xiaou2 »

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2010, 03:20:34 pm »
I want to also state, that Designing and Developing a hit video game isnt cheap
either.

 Good games can cost Millions to produce.  Traditional artists, 3d modelers,
programmers, designers, administrators, electronic & mechanical engineers, and much
more.

 Pinball design is actually far easier and less costly, even when ALL the bells and
whistles are put into factor.   Especially in these times, where video game creation
is so much more costly.

 Just as if you cut corners and costs on video game creation, you will lose
sales...  Pinball is exactly the same.

 In fact, Arcade video games are in exactly the same type of situation as pinball...except
much worse.  Arcade machines are not as desired in the home as Pinball machines.
They cost boatloads to develop, and there isnt many places to put them anymore.
Mostly due to how Generic and boring that started making games... to the point where
nobody cared to even play them.

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11279
  • Last login:February 25, 2025, 08:29:42 pm
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Stern's New Website
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2010, 05:41:38 pm »
How long has Batman Dark Knight been out? They just now perfected the software:  :dizzy:
http://www.sternpinball.com/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=5


PS: Hey Xiau2, Stern is hiring. Check their forum.

NO MORE!!