Question about wiring a swappable panel...

[JamesS]

Ok, I plan on using a DB25 connector attached to a KeyWiz to allow my panel to be swappable later on.

For the people who have done this, did you use the original wiring that came with the Printer cable, or did you take it apart and reconnect it with a thicker gauge of wire?

And if you just used the thin wire from the printer cable, what size disconnect did you use?

Also, if you planned on having a 4 way Joystick in the middle of two 8 ways, how would you wire the 4 way to connect to the 8 way?  Through some kind of wire splitter before you connect it to the 8 way player 1?

I hope these questions do not sound too foolish.

[mushmouth]

I think these are great questions. I'm within about a week of putting it all together, I'm doing the exact same thing and am JUST starting on my 3 swappable CPs. I'm also planning on using DB25 connectors and have the same questions about using the printer/serial 25pin cables. For instance, will there be any problems with running 5v through it?

[hyiu]

if the wires are not thick enough... (I use cat5 cables and the wires are also thin...)  I just make a longer piece expose... then fold the exposed wire 2 or 3 times.. (that will make it thick...) and clamp it to the disconnect....

those wires should be fine handling 5v....

and for the 4 way.... you can hook it parallel to the 8 way...
(sorry... my pic skill is bad.... so.. you'll need to try to imagine this...)

if the 4 way and the 8 way is using the same keys....
then hook up all grounds connected.......
and hook up the 8 way exactly like normal...
but from the 8 way... run 4 more wires from the 8 way to the 4 way for the 4 directions.... (so... 4 way up to 8 way up, 4 way down to 8 way down... 4 way left to 8 way left... 4 way right to 8 way right...)
(that will do the job...)

keep in mind... this setup... when you're playing pacman with 4 way... and someone moves the 8 way stick will ruin your game... (or the other way around... when you're playing fighter and you're beating the crap out of the other guy.... the other guy can move the 4 way to ruin your game...)

one way to fix this is for the ground of the joysticks.... setup a switch so that the ground to the joystick can be cutoff...
then that stick will be disabled when needed....

hope I explained myself clear enough....

hmmm.... I donno what keyword to search... but I remember someone did a simple diagram explaining all these... in one of the threads....

[slycrel]

  I just recently did this, but I pretty much made all of those decisions myself.

  I used the wires from the DB25 cable.  I simply cut it in half, one half I wired to my ipac, the other to the controls.  As far as hooking the small wires to the controls, I considered soldering because I couldn't find any disconnects that would fit it.  I finally did a hack job and put the wire thru the small hole in the microswitch and wrapped the bare wire around once.  Then slid on a disconnect to keep it on there tight.  I haven't had any problems thus far with this, but time will tell.

  I didn't do a 4 way joystick, but I'd assume you could get the wire to wire cable connectors and have the two coming in from the joysticks going out to one line to the keywiz.

  I have a couple pics here at work that I've been showing to a friend, I'll see if I can dig a few up and post them here.

[slycrel]

Here is the ipac wiring job.  (Yes, it's an I-Pac 4, the 2 player is in the mail...)

[slycrel]

The wire marked in white is unused by the way.

Here is the full bottom of my control panel.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I didn't mess around with trying to get them into disconnects.
I just soldered them all to the buttons.
If you are really set on using disconnects, I would get the solder-on kind, fill the base with solder and then connect the wires.
You are not going to get as reliable a connection from a mechanical joint, as you will from a soldered one.

[slycrel]

And here's the best closeup pic that I had offhand.

Good luck!

[abrannan]

<Deleted expletive>!  Just because you have a 3 megapixel camera doesn't mean you should post all 3 megapixels of the picture.  A simple resize to 640x480 (available in gosh darn near all camera-included photo editors, as well as Microsoft Photo editor) saves all of our eyes and bandwidth.

[slycrel]

  Uhm...  those are all 200k or less.  I'll resize them down next time.  I see large pics all the time on here, and in this case I figured the more detail the better for the guy.  It won't happen again.  

[JamesS]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Did not think to just strip more out.  Got all of the buttons and Joysticks.  Already diagramed the Db25 connections.  Probably going to spend this weekend putting together the diagram of db25 to KeyWiz.

Thanks again.

[nipsmg]

OK call me stupid... (*Cringes*)
But after you cut your DB25 and pull back the wire casing, how do you tell which wire goes to which pin?

NipsMG

[mmmPeanutButter]

OK call me stupid... (*Cringes*)
But after you cut your DB25 and pull back the wire casing, how do you tell which wire goes to which pin?

NipsMG

I did the same thing but my wiring was color-coded!  (it was a belkin cable)  It saved me a  lot of time cause I was going to use a multimeter to test which wire was what (but I didn't have to)  Also, another idea I came up with was to trim back the insullation before cutting the wires.  You can put two small pieces of masking tape on the wire mark each with an "A" and then cut between them.  Then use "B" on the next one and so on.  This way after everything is all cut, you will know which wire corresponds to what.

If you just cut the wire before marking anything, then you might have to use the multimeter...

but like I said, it can save you a lot of time if you get a color coded one.

Hope this helps.  
 

[tmasman]

OK call me stupid... (*Cringes*)
But after you cut your DB25 and pull back the wire casing, how do you tell which wire goes to which pin?

NipsMG

You either need a multi-meter, or... a battery, a light, & some spare wire (& maybe an aligator clip)...

W/ a multi-meter:
Set it to "Continuity testing" and attach one probe to a wire, then touch the pins with the other probe until it beeps (or moves the needle if it's not digital). Now you've got your wire-pin...

W/ a battery (9 Volt works good) & flashlight light bulb:
Basically you'll be doing the same thing... Connect the negative side of the battery to the side contact on the battery, hold one of the cables wires to the bottom contact on the bulb.  Now using a wire connected to the positive side of the battery touch each pin on the cable until the bulb lights up!

It's a little cumbersome, but if you use an asortment of aligator clips it can save you from having to buy a multimeter quite yet... Although if you like the hardware side of this hobby I highly recommend getting a $20 (or cheaper) digital multimeter...  Rat Shack has a few cheaps ones in the the $20 range.

[tmasman]

OK call me stupid... (*Cringes*)
But after you cut your DB25 and pull back the wire casing, how do you tell which switch goes to which pin?

NipsMG

I did the same thing but my wiring was color-coded!  (it was a belkin cable)  It saved me a  lot of time cause I was going to use a multimeter to test which wire was what (but I didn't have to)  Also, another idea I came up with was to trim back the insullation before cutting the wires.  You can put two small pieces of masking tape on the wire mark each with an "A" and then cut between them.  Then use "B" on the next one and so on.  This way after everything is all cut, you will know which wire corresponds to what.

If you just cut the wire before marking anything, then you might have to use the multimeter...

but like I said, it can save you a lot of time if you get a color coded one.

Hope this helps.  
 

The only problem with this is if you go to add another panel in the future & you can't get the exact same cable, then you're stuck...  You won't know which pins have which switches...

[JamesS]

You can get a cheap Multi-Meter at Home-Depot.

Luckily my brother does HVAC repair and before that was the Supervisor for a maintenance shop of a Carpet factory.

He has like 5 or 6 Fluke Multi-meters and he loaned me one.  After I got everything moving it did not take me long to map out the pins/wiring layout.

But I suggest the Multi-meter way, seems much faster to me than the light method.

[mmmPeanutButter]

OK call me stupid... (*Cringes*)
But after you cut your DB25 and pull back the wire casing, how do you tell which switch goes to which pin?

NipsMG

I did the same thing but my wiring was color-coded!  (it was a belkin cable)  It saved me a  lot of time cause I was going to use a multimeter to test which wire was what (but I didn't have to)  Also, another idea I came up with was to trim back the insullation before cutting the wires.  You can put two small pieces of masking tape on the wire mark each with an "A" and then cut between them.  Then use "B" on the next one and so on.  This way after everything is all cut, you will know which wire corresponds to what.

If you just cut the wire before marking anything, then you might have to use the multimeter...

but like I said, it can save you a lot of time if you get a color coded one.

Hope this helps.  
 

The only problem with this is if you go to add another panel in the future & you can't get the exact same cable, then you're stuck...  You won't know which pins have which switches...

Good point.  I guess if you're making swapable panels and you plan for 2 and later you want to put in a third then you may have to spend a little time with your multimeter.  (Unless there is an easier way).

You could always just think really hard before you start wiring to decide how many panels you want.  Then just add 1 or 2 to that number and buy that many cables.  Buying two extra of the same color-coded cables is definately cheaper than your time to test each lead.

[JamesS]

The problem is a lot Belkin Cables are differently colored.  Look above, my layout and color code was different than another persons.

I have a Male/Male Belkin that I have not cut in half yet, that I will use for the other panels.  And a Female/Male one that I have taken apart and determined the layout.

Now later I will cut in half the male/male cable and determine the layout.  Since I am connecting the Female one to my Keywiz, then any other cable I buy will just be male/male cables in the future.  Although currently I can only think of for sure two panels, one with two 8 ways, 8 buttons and a 4 way, and another panel with a trackball and spinner.  Maybe an 8 way there so I can play Tron.

[Lilwolf]

One other option is to just wire it up... And then test it... And configure the buttons.

I use a MK64 and each control panel I have has it's own configs...  So I update my encoder each time I switch them.

I had (at one point) hoped I wouldn't have to... But the time it takes to launch a batch file compared to the time it takes to get the right order on EVERY control panel wasn't worth it.

Also, some control panels you cant really use the same buttons on... Like if you do a 4 player control panel with 4 buttons each... you don't want to waste the connections for player 1 5-8 and 2 5-8...

[tmasman]

You can get a cheap Multi-Meter at Home-Depot.

Luckily my brother does HVAC repair and before that was the Supervisor for a maintenance shop of a Carpet factory.

He has like 5 or 6 Fluke Multi-meters and he loaned me one.  After I got everything moving it did not take me long to map out the pins/wiring layout.

But I suggest the Multi-meter way, seems much faster to me than the light method.

The "light method" was just something I had to do in a pinch before I was able to go out & get my multi-meter... Like I said though... If you're ever going to need to do this type of thing again (as with this hobby, it seems to be needed quite a bit with all the wiring we're doing) you should fork up the dough for a cheap multimeter at least.

[mmmPeanutButter]

One other option is to just wire it up... And then test it... And configure the buttons.

I use a MK64 and each control panel I have has it's own configs...  So I update my encoder each time I switch them.

I had (at one point) hoped I wouldn't have to... But the time it takes to launch a batch file compared to the time it takes to get the right order on EVERY control panel wasn't worth it.

Also, some control panels you cant really use the same buttons on... Like if you do a 4 player control panel with 4 buttons each... you don't want to waste the connections for player 1 5-8 and 2 5-8...

yea, I like this one.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm actually running 3 different MAME folders on my computer, one for each control panel I currently have built.
That saves alot of wire tracing; but uses extra hard drive space.
I just went in and deleted any games that don't use that control panel; and then set all the default inputs to match the control panels, however they got wired up.

It's a whole lot quicker than wiring everything "correctly", and easier to use once it's done because the only available games are the ones for whatever control panel is installed.

[Lilwolf]

NoOne=NBA=, you should consider trying JFront.  I copy around the default configs for the games based on information for the games.  

So you setup (default setup) one time for all 2player, 8way, 6 buttons to swap the punches and the kicks and all streetfighters are setup.   All trackballs use a different control panel.. great... setup one time....  No copying and you can always then do the game specific changes when needed.

[mmmPeanutButter]

So if you had 3 control panels and you wanted to swap them out and have different batch files for each configuration for each, what would be the best way to select which panel was running...

If you had a simple menu program at start up that simply said "press player 1 start" and you had a unique player 1 start for each panel, then it could load the right batch file.  Seems pretty easy to me (there is likely an easier way - there always is with me)  

Or you could use the "on the fly" configuration changing thing built into the keywiz (provided all of your player 1 joysticks were wired up the same).

maybe I'm just dumb though.

[Lilwolf]

The keywiz only handles 2 configs at a time I believe.  And same with MK64 (and maybe ipac... never checked)..

So you can do that.  But how often do you change it?  It takes a few seconds.

Some hardwire a different key pressed on each control panel (or combination) so that once you plug it in it will launch the program.  

I dont do this myself, but it is supported in jfront.  JFront you can have a single key (or combination, but not with shifts) press to launch any program.  So you could set it up so that when you press a 'Q' it launches your encoder software to setup CP1.  'W' will launch the encoder for CP2.  But you would have to make sure you only switched CP's in the frontend itself.

But I haven't done it recently because I had troubles launching MK64's update program in 98 because its not a win32 app.... I've gotten better at launching applications... but haven't tried again recently.... It did work un XP (my development system) but then I had troubles when I got it to my cabinet... sucks adding features that doesn't work for you)... But ipacs and keywiz's shouldn't have these problems.

[JayTea]

To the original post::

I use four 9 hole molex plugs that wire into my i-pac, color coded.  Each CP just plugs right in.  You can splice the wires of the 4 way into the 8 way of your CP and connect them to the molex (control panel side).

ENCODER----> FEMALE MOLEX----> /  MALE MOLEX-->CONTROL PANEL

This way you rig up each CP any way you want, for instance splicing 2 joysitcks into the same 4 inputs (PLAYER 1 L,R,U,D) and run it into the corresponding molex connector.

Just a suggestion.  Hope this gives you an idea on how to manipulate your printer cable.

[Violineb]

I didn't bother reading the whole thread but it definitly is a very helpful thread IMO. And despite what some say about the pictures being too big, I'd rather have really big clear pics than some tiny 9and maybe blurry 640x480 pictures. Well time to order the parts I need, starting to get impatient with myself. BTW using a printer wire as the method for a quick disconnect to switch CPs only allows 25 inputs, am I correct? So I guess that wouldn't allow me to do a two joystick setup with 8 buttons for each player. plus player 1 and 2 buttons. Unless you had the p1/2 + coin buttons wired seperatly from the printer wire. Am I correct that then it would be possible?

[JamesS]

Yes, here is my idea for now.  If I ever decide to go all out and build a huge 4 person panel to sit on this thing, and well you never know.

I would probably go with the 9 molex cable for each user into a Mk64 or an Ipac 4.

Anyway, currently I am doing a 2 joystick, 8 connections with a 4 way in the middle.  6 buttons each player, 12 connections.  Player 1 & 2, coin ins as well.  That is 4 connections.

Plus I am thinking of having a board above the CP with normal buttons like, Enter, Esc, P, Tab and anything else I can think of.  Those would tie directly into my Keywiz for now.

[Minwah]

To the original post::

I use four 9 hole molex plugs that wire into my i-pac, color coded.  Each CP just plugs right in.  You can splice the wires of the 4 way into the 8 way of your CP and connect them to the molex (control panel side).

ENCODER----> FEMALE MOLEX----> /  MALE MOLEX-->CONTROL PANEL

This way you rig up each CP any way you want, for instance splicing 2 joysitcks into the same 4 inputs (PLAYER 1 L,R,U,D) and run it into the corresponding molex connector.

Just a suggestion.  Hope this gives you an idea on how to manipulate your printer cable.

This is very similar to what I am doing.  I'm using 2x 12 way molex connectors tho - one for each player (both 'players' are not needed for some of my panels).  I am just going to wire it up using 22 gauge coloured cable

[JayTea]

This is very similar to what I am doing.  I'm using 2x 12 way molex connectors tho - one for each player (both 'players' are not needed for some of my panels).  I am just going to wire it up using 22 gauge coloured cable

Yes Molex 1 2 3 Are Used for Player 1 and 2 inputs.  Molex 4 Is my "reserve" which has a 5v line and Ground for my p360's.

It is also helpful to have a USB splitter/extension cord if you have a mouse hack.  It makes for an easy disconnect in your CP box, rather than digging behind your CPU for the USB cable.

[Minwah]

This is very similar to what I am doing.  I'm using 2x 12 way molex connectors tho - one for each player (both 'players' are not needed for some of my panels).  I am just going to wire it up using 22 gauge coloured cable

Yes Molex 1 2 3 Are Used for Player 1 and 2 inputs.  Molex 4 Is my "reserve" which has a 5v line and Ground for my p360's.

It is also helpful to have a USB splitter/extension cord if you have a mouse hack.  It makes for an easy disconnect in your CP box, rather than digging behind your CPU for the USB cable.

Yep, I was planning to mount a USB hub somewhere in the region between PC and control panel, easily accessable