First try at control design...

[gauntlet_addict]

I have been reading the lists for a couple of months now and checking out everyone's designs in the database.  Wow.  There are some serious cabinets out there.

The games that I am ultimately interested in are: Gauntlet (4 player), the Simpsons (4 players), Karate Champ, Ms. Pacman, Frogger, Q-Bert, Dig Dug, Mr. Do, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Ikara Warriors, Tempest, and Narc.  I know that these means one set of controls for most of the games and a second set for Ikara and Tempest.

My plan is to build a 2 player control panel first and try it out.  Once I have that perfected, I will redo it as 4 player controls.  If I like the controls, I will build the cabinet around them and give myself the ability to swap the control panel on the cabinet for other games.

I am thinking of starting with an I-Pac, 2 Happs Supers (since they are 4/8 switchable) and 8 Happs Ultimate pushbuttons mounting on 3/4" board that is clamped to a table to start.  Once I get the positioning where I want it, I will more up to 4 person, etc.

My question is: are these the right joysticks to go 4 person?  Does this sound like a good, logical and cost effective approach?  Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[rampy]

just one small note:

Happs supers aren't really switchable on the fly (you have to take the the bottom e clip off and flip the rubber actuator thingie from what I understand... and then still the 4 way action is super authentic.)

If you're looking for joysticks that work well both for 4 way games and 8 way.... I'd suggest either getting an Oscar Restrictor plate, or the switchable ulimark t-sticks, or j-sticks....

YMMV, but thought it was something you should consider for managing your expectations appropriately.

rampy

[gauntlet_addict]

If you're looking for joysticks that work well both for 4 way games and 8 way.... I'd suggest either getting an Oscar Restrictor plate, or the switchable ulimark t-sticks, or j-sticks....

Cool!  Thanks.  Having to disassemble the control panel to switch games would stink, so something more "on the fly" is desired.  I will check these out.

[SirPoonga]

I'd go with the restrictor plates, since oscar has 4ay, 2way, and qbert restrictor plates.

[Psyklops]

I'm taking pretty much the same approach.  I just ordered my IPAC4 and enought controls for 2 players yesterday.  When they get here I'm going to construct a 2-player 7-button layout and get them configured how I like 'em.  Once that's done and once Andy releases his Opti-PAC USB, I'll order up some more buttons and a couple of the Happ Optical Rotary Joysticks.  

My plans are to move the 2 supers I ordered to player's 3 and 4 and to use the 2 rotary sticks for player's 1 and 2, for games like Ikari Warriors and Guerilla War.  Player's 3 and 4 will have a 6-button layout (just in case for future game support).  I will also put together a second panel sometime down the road with dual trackballs (2-player Marble Madness) a spinner and a 4-way stick.  

And then eventually get the cab thing built  

[hyiu]

from the list of games you mentioned... (you didn't really include any fighting games...) so, I guess you're not a big fighter fans...

so... here is what I think I'll do on your panel design.... (take it at your own risk.... hee hee....  )

if you're not REALLY fussy about the control... Happs super playing 4 way games is "acceptable" by itself... (I'm sure some ppl will disagree... but I personally think its ok.... Competition is not good for 4 way... but Super is ok...)

if you make a large 4 player panel lined up.... you can play gauntlet (and other 4 players), and most other conventional control games... (I would do player 3,1,2,4 as the order) then for Karate Champ, or other games that needs double sticks, you can still use the same panel, since player 1 will be using player 3 and 1's sticks... and player 2 will be using 2 and 4 sticks... (the sticks will be slightly wider apart, but should be ok...)

and then build a swappable panel of the ikari warrior (rotary stick)... trackballs, and/or dedeciated 4 way.....

it all depends on how fussy you are about the controls....

(but then the important thing about the 4 player cp is it has to line up straight - which means its going to be huge !!...)

-------------

for myself, I can't afford the space, so, I'm building a 2 players panel (6 buttons each) with a trackball in the middle....
and I can play 1 player on double stick games (ex. karate Champ)  but I'm thinking I might build a box of some sort so that others can actually sit next to the machine and be player 3 and 4 and so on..... (well... the box is NOT attached to the cab...) but if your monitor is reasonably big, it should be playable.... Then the only important thing is you just need to be there early and be player 1 and 2 !!... haaa haa....

hope it helps...

[gauntlet_addict]

My plans are to move the 2 supers I ordered to player's 3 and 4 and to use the 2 rotary sticks for player's 1 and 2, for games like Ikari Warriors and Guerilla War.  Player's 3 and 4 will have a 6-button layout (just in case for future game support).  I will also put together a second panel sometime down the road with dual trackballs (2-player Marble Madness) a spinner and a 4-way stick.  

And then eventually get the cab thing built  

Yep, I can relate.  OK, well now you have given me a different idea.  Has anyone run a DualHead video card with MAME?  Can it drive two monitors?  If so, I could build a bigger cabinet (hey, I have the whole basement to play with) with 2 monitors at a 45 degree angle.  I could use 8 way controls with restrictors for P1 & P2 in front of the first monitor and use rotating sticks for P3 & P4 in front of the other monitor.  I could also make the second control panel swappable so that I could put the rotary control for the Tempest groupies in my bunch.

Of course, this means buying a second monitor.  <SIGH>  

[neuromancer]

with 2 monitors at a 45 degree angle.  I could use

If you decide to do that, get both monitors and test them in the configuration you intend to use them before you build the cabinet.

When I used to use dual monitors with Macs ages ago I found my monitors would mess each other up at some angles.

That is a great idea though. Unless three and 4 players are common, the second monitor could be smaller. Maybe a 15" PC monitor. You could have a much cleaner looking cab.

Here's another idea (I'm on a roll): put a second PC in the cab. Then if you set things up with a KVM switch, players 3 & 4 could play completely different games.

Bob

[gauntlet_addict]

That is a great idea though. Unless three and 4 players are common, the second monitor could be smaller. Maybe a 15" PC monitor. You could have a much cleaner looking cab.

Here's another idea (I'm on a roll): put a second PC in the cab. Then if you set things up with a KVM switch, players 3 & 4 could play completely different games.

Yep.  I have already moved on to considering a "sideways" 2 monitor/2 control panel design where the access door to the PC is on the side.  You can easily set 2 monitors back to back.  I can focus on making one side the primary side used for most games and the other side the lower quality yet more flexible side.

The only problem I am running into is the KVM setup.  If I can resolve that, I think I will be in.  I will let you know.

[eightbit]

I have a multiple monitor splitter. It takes the output from one monitor and can send it to up to 4 monitors. This would be a easy way to go. It would not allow you to play different games on each side at the same time but it would let you play a 4 player game with 2 monitors.

I think your going to have difficulty using one of the video cards that supports multiple monitors because the ones I have used gave you multiple desktops, IE it wasn't a monitor multiplier it was a desktop multiplier.

[_Iz-]

I think your going to have difficulty using one of the video cards that supports multiple monitors because the ones I have used gave you multiple desktops, IE it wasn't a monitor multiplier it was a desktop multiplier.

He just needs to set it to clone mode instead of span... (This assumes 1 dual head videocard not 2 seperate video cards although 2 cards might be capable of clone mode, but I've never run this setup to confirm...)

[neuromancer]

The only problem I am running into is the KVM setup.  If I can resolve that, I think I will be in.  I will let you know.

50 pin centronics connector. (AKA scsi cable)??

Bob

[gauntlet_addict]

50 pin centronics connector. (AKA scsi cable)??

Yeah ... I am still thinking about that one.  I am assuming I would only use one controller (iPac4?) and hook both control panels into the same controller.  Hmmm ... if I had some of the leads off the controller go to a female connector, the "main" control panel would run directly to the controller and I could have multiple "secondary" control panels that would plug into the female connector to hook into the controller.  Hmmm...

Can you use 2 controllers?  Would that be easier?

As far as the video goes, it would all come down to cost as to whether I went dualhead card in clone mode or video splitter.  Same result either way.

[neuromancer]

50 pin centronics connector. (AKA scsi cable)??

Can you use 2 controllers?  Would that be easier?

If you want to be able to use the two sets of panels/screns independently (each playing a different game) then you *must* have two controlers and be able to switch the controls between them, because each computer has to have it's own controler.

I guess another approach might be to use a pair of gamepad hacks on the secondary CP. Then you would only need to switch the USB and the video.

oooh! here's a third solution. Build two complete, separate systems. Then use that software that enables multiplayer MAME over a network....


Bob

[gauntlet_addict]

If you want to be able to use the two sets of panels/screns independently (each playing a different game) then you *must* have two controlers and be able to switch the controls between them, because each computer has to have it's own controler.

I guess another approach might be to use a pair of gamepad hacks on the secondary CP. Then you would only need to switch the USB and the video.

oooh! here's a third solution. Build two complete, separate systems. Then use that software that enables multiplayer MAME over a network....

OK, I think I have it figured out.  I am going to build the primary cab with two joysticks.  This cab will have a VGA splitter and an iPac4 controller.  I will run some of the lines from the iPac to a 25 pin female connector.  I will run one of the outs from the VGA splitter to a female VGA connector.

The secondary cab will have a video A-B switch and the 25 pin A-B switch.  It will also have its own PC and iPac2 controller.  In that way, if you put the video switch on A, you are getting the video from the primary cab.  If you put the controls on A, you are sending input to the iPac4 through the 25 pin connector.  If you put the video and control switches on B, you are now running the joysticks to the iPac2 as an independent machine.  My only concern is what impact on signal the switches will have.