CP Layout rev. 2 (feedback please)

[Martoon]

Okay, I posted my initial CP mockup and got some feedback in this thread:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=24121

Here's revision 2.  I got rid of a little width, and quite a bit of depth.  The entire panel is now about 28" wide by 16" deep.

I moved the spinner more to center so it can be used right-hand or left-hand.

All the controls in the mockup feel right when I "use" them.

Anyone see anything else that can be improved?

[walls83]

I would lower the joystick and buttons then have the trackball buttons next to the trackball.  I had my trackball buttons on top of my trackball and I didnt like it at all.  I had to make a new CP to fix them.

[Martoon]

I would lower the joystick and buttons then have the trackball buttons next to the trackball.  I had my trackball buttons on top of my trackball and I didnt like it at all.  I had to make a new CP to fix them.

Lower the joystick and buttons?  It's about 8" from the bottom edge of CP to joystick center right now.  Is that in too deep?  It seems if they were much closer to the edge, there wouldn't be much of a space for your right palm to rest while tapping buttons.

Trackball buttons next to trackball: Do you mean left of or right of trackball?  And would you put them vertically (one above the other)?  Also, what specifically did you have trouble with when you had them above the trackball?

Thanks!

[walls83]

Yes the TB buttons to the right(or left your preference).  Um I think my Joysticks and buttons are like 4 or 5 inches from the bottom I think,  they are def not 8 inches.    But its really up to you on what you feel looks and feels good.

[Apollo]

Why don't you have P2 joystick as the top fire. Put the spinner where the trackball is and put the trackball above the spinner. Unless you play a lot of Karate Champ or 2 player Bomberman that would unclutter your CP a little and you can still play Tron.

[pointdablame]

You can definitely get rid of some of that space between the edge and the joysticks.  My Xmen cab has like 2" or 3" tops between the edge and the joysticks and there is NO problem at all playing it comfortably.  You aren't resting your whole forearm on there

I would also make the 2p joystick a top fire unless you REALLY need 2 4way sticks.  It would really unclutter the CP.  I wouldn't move the spinner in front of the trackball as suggested if you ever play Golden Tee or any TB game that requires a bit of a smack of the trackball.

[Sylentwulf]

I would ditch the trackball buttons (my biggest regret on my cp is that I have them) and widen the CP, I don't think a CP looks right without 1"-3" overhang on the sides. I think my CP is just wide enough at 34" and a tiny bit too shallow at 14"

I also think your controls are set way too far back. Put them in the middle.

Just my 2 cents, as long as it's comfy for you.

[Martoon]

The top-fire as the P2 joystick?  I kind of like that idea.  Unfortunately, I've already bought all three joysticks.  I initially got the two T-Stiks, then realized I would want a top-fire for some games, so I ordered the TopFire from GroovyGameGear (my wife just now called and said it came in the mail).  I suppose I could always sell a T-Stik, or keep it around for future use.  My only concern is if the TopFire has too different of a feel to it, it will take some adjustment when you play as player 2, and feel strange in two-joystick games like Crazy Climber.  I'll see what I think once I have the TopFire in my hands.

I probably will pull the joysticks and their buttons down a couple inches.

I definitely won't swap the spinner and trackball.  As much as I love spinner games (I'm a Tempest junkie), I wouldn't want my trackball that far back behind everything.

I kind of like the mouse buttons where they are, but I may consider moving them, just because it would let me pull the spinner down a little to make it more accessible.  I don't like the idea of losing the mouse buttons altogether, because I will be running some PC games, so I want to retain mouse functionality.

I don't think I'll make the panel any wider.  I'm trying to keep this thing as space efficient as possible.

Thanks for the tips, guys.  Keep 'em coming if you have more.  I know panel layout is a matter of personal preference, but this is my first panel and I want to avoid as many post-construction regrets as possible.

[DougHillman]

Pull P1 & P2 sticks+buttons down.  The trackball, spinner, & top fire as well.    Put the mouse buttons over above P1 (awkward to get your other hand above the trackball to operate the buttons while you're using the track).  

What are your 2 admin buttons?  If Pause is one of them, make sure they're placed in the top middle so they're easily reachable by both players.

D

[Martoon]

Pulling the trackball down isn't an option.  Because of the rounded corners, the bottom board of the CP box needs to be in a couple inches, which means there's already almost no clearance between it and the trackball case.  I think maybe people don't realize how small this panel is, since there's nothing in the photo for scale.  It's only 28" by 16".

But I think I will put the mouse buttons elsewhere as suggested, which will let me pull the spinner down a bit.  And I'll pull everything else down a little, too.

If there's a place in the center for the admin buttons, I'll put them there, otherwise I'm not going to worry about having them over by Player 1 (if Player 2 needs the game paused, I'm sure Player 1 will oblige).

Oh, and I got to handle the FireTop I got from GGG.  It's a much different feel than the T-Stik (slightly longer throw, much lighter switch action).  We're going to leave all three sticks in the panel.  I think the FireTop will work better for certain games.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[DougHillman]

I'm curious if YOU know how much space you need.  This is a wooden CP right?  So you'll need the 6" square mounting plate for your trackball (or 6 1/2" if you're going with a 3" ball).  Doesn't look like you've got that there.

That's why I always do my layout/templates with the entire mounting size of the control there to see, so it's immediately apparant how much room I have/need.  I throw the actual CP box into the picture too, so I can see where my limitations are.  

I do a quick layout with controls I cut out of foamboard, draw it up exactly in Adobe Illustrator, and then mock it up again to the exact dimensions (and height) with the foamboard for a little bit of pretend playtesting.

It'll be a little more work, but you can always build the box like I've outlined with the red lines below.  This'll get you a few more inches.  It's how I work a CP with rounded edges.

[pointdablame]

I think you should at least center the mouse buttons over the trackball.  That may be your intention and the picture just doesn't show it, in which case nevermind, heh, but I thought I'd mention it.

That top fire, or any other joystick up there always looks a bit off to me, but I'm considering adding another stick to my panel as well (either dedicated 4 way or topfire).  I think you would be just fine with one Tstick plus and one topfire, you'll get used to them pretty quick I would imagine.

And if you do go that route, sell me your tstick plus, I can use one  

[Martoon]

I'm curious if YOU know how much space you need.  This is a wooden CP right?  So you'll need the 6" square mounting plate for your trackball (or 6 1/2" if you're going with a 3" ball).  Doesn't look like you've got that there.

I just eyeball it as I'm sliding the magnetic pieces around, but then I check it by laying the actual controls (i.e., the trackball in it's case) on top of the magnetic mockups to make sure there's a little clearance between everything.  I've got faint lines sketched with a dry-erase marker where the edge boards are going to go (they don't show in the photo).

When I get to the final layout I like, I'll take measurements and lay it out via Illustrator or 3DS Max.

[Martoon]

I think you should at least center the mouse buttons over the trackball.  That may be your intention and the picture just doesn't show it, in which case nevermind, heh, but I thought I'd mention it.

That top fire, or any other joystick up there always looks a bit off to me, but I'm considering adding another stick to my panel as well (either dedicated 4 way or topfire).  I think you would be just fine with one Tstick plus and one topfire, you'll get used to them pretty quick I would imagine.

And if you do go that route, sell me your tstick plus, I can use one  

Actually, the mouse buttons aren't over the trackball anymore.  I pulled the joysticks and their buttons down, and put the mouse buttons to the left of the spinner so the spinner could come down a little.

I really considered using the TopFire as the P2 stick, but my co-workers are helping pay for this (and hopefully will start helping me build it), and some of them wanted all the sticks in there.

I'm actually going to do a quick-and-dirty mount of all (or most) of the controls in a piece of scrap wood, and possibly wire some of them up, to really see how they behave before we do the "real" CP.  After that, we may be convinced to lose the second T-Stik and just use the TopFire, at which point the T-Stik will be yours for a very reasonable price.

I'm really having a hard time telling how I'm going to like either type of joystick in actual use.  I've never built a cab before, or played anyone else's, and I haven't played games in the arcade for a very long time.  Just handling them alone, the T-Stiks feel incredibly stiff to me, so I may like the GGG FireTop better.  I mostly play a lot of scrolling shooters.  Not sure what everyone else in the office will be playing.  I very seldom see any of them playing games, which is kind of sad, since we're a game development studio.