games on a 450Mhz computer

[goofy]

Is there a list somewhere of games that will work at full speed FPS (isn't it 60 fps generally) on an old 450Mhz computer?

I see Vantage supports about 80 - 90 games (http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/vantage.html) and I'm assuming those will all run at 450Mhz. But just wondering if there is more or less a definitively list of the minimum processor required to get full speed out of each game using either Vantage or MAME?

[paigeoliver]

Install Mame version .55

Every game supported by that version should run full speed.

Problem solved.

(Mame .55 also supports pretty much everything the current Mame supports, at least the important stuff).

You see there can't really be a list anywhere of what will run on what because there are like 50 Mame versions now, and each new one is generally slower than the last, so the Mame version matters A LOT.

[MonitorGuru]

The key actually is to drive an old arcade monitor instead of a computer monitor.

On a 600 MHZ Duron chip with 128 meg of memory, I can get 180 fps/60fps (i.e. 300% speed) out of things like Donkey Kong and Ms.Pacman when driving a 1:1 pixel output, even on an old ancient, crappy 1997, 4 meg PCI video card.

The reason: 1:1 pixel mapping. No extra work by the processor or video card to multiple/scale pixels with driver libaries to display on a 640x480 or 1024x768 monitor. That's what eats your clock cycles in mame.  

Download AdvanceMame and connect to an arcade monitor and I bet you can run even on a 233 MHz Pentium 1 with a 2 meg video card at better than full speed, at least for the classics, even with the latest releases of AdvanceMame like .84

[SirPoonga]

well, .55 doesn't have the better asteroids and other discrete logic sound  But it will do.  ALSo you may want to think about nebula or kawaks emulators for neogeo, cps1, and cps2 games.

[captainpotato]

I'm just in the process of setting up my K6-2 500 box with 256mb RAM and a TNT2 M64 graphics card for my cocktail cabinet (perhaps a little overkill on some things, but it works and it's not worth much as anything else).

At the moment, it's running Fraggal's AdvanceMAME/ArcadeOS/DOS 7 installation CD, available from here. It uses a fairly recent version of AdvanceMAME (not sure which one), and it can play Gauntlet at full speed on most levels using a 15" PC monitor.

I haven't configured it perfectly yet (far from it, to be honest), but with the ROMs that work (I have a real mish-mash collection built up over the last few years, so they aren't all compatible with the same MAME version), but it plays most mid- to late-1980s stuff fine: F1Dream and WEC Le Mans run at full speed, and older stuff is fine as well.

If you have a PIII 450, you'll be even better off than I am. From my tests to date, the choice of OS is important: Linux (Slackware 9) wasn't quick enough for Gauntlet (on a Celeron 433 with onboard graphics chip), but DOS 7 seems to be enough for what I what to run.

I'm going to try Vantage (I'm making a cocktail cabinet) and a couple of older AdvanceMAME versions, so I'll let you know how the machine copes. I've also got access to a 14" NEC3D monitor that does 15kHz modes, so I'm tempted to use that instead of the 15" one.

The biggest issue I'm having so far is configuring the monitor correctly for a few games, but that's more my inexperience than anything else

[hunky_artist]

there are like 50 Mame versions now, and each new one is generally slower than the last, so the Mame version matters A LOT.

ooh, is that true? I just figured they included more games. So what you're saying is that if I'm not particularly interested in having whatever latest games the newer versions include, and I'm on a slower computer then i should use an older version of MAME?

are there any benchmarks? any particular version, maybe the one mention above, that were better or included some essential games?

[Spaced Invader]

there are like 50 Mame versions now, and each new one is generally slower than the last, so the Mame version matters A LOT.

ooh, is that true? I just figured they included more games. So what you're saying is that if I'm not particularly interested in having whatever latest games the newer versions include, and I'm on a slower computer then i should use an older version of MAME?

are there any benchmarks? any particular version, maybe the one mention above, that were better or included some essential games?

Ummm...yep... Older=faster in Mame. New drivers, code bloat, bells and whistles, and even more accurate emulation all slow things down. So .55 is a good choice for slow systems and .39 for really slow systems...IMO.

Edit: Spelling

[fredster]

Anybody have links to the old versions?

Didn't somebody make a page that held the old mame32 versions?

[goofy]

I'm not too interested in spending the money on an arcade monitor. What I want to do is just take an old 450 Mhz I've got laying around and an old monitor and put together a little MAME system. I'll probably build a mini-cab for it. For my big cabinet, I'll put in a 2-3 Ghz which at this time runs most games really well.

By the way, I was just looking at a MAME 0.55 list of games (from here: http://mamerominfo.retrogames.com/) and it shows Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Metal Slug X, Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, Mortal Kombat 3, Street Fighter, Street Fighter II, Puzzle Bobble and Puzzle Bobble 2 all being supported in Mame 0.55, but I don't think these will play 60/60 on a 450Mhz. Is this correct?

captainpotato - Keep me posted on how your setting up your system. I've still got to set mine up and I'll probably go with something close to what you've got; if I can make it work.

[Raleigh]

Anybody have links to the old versions?

Didn't somebody make a page that held the old mame32 versions?

http://mame.joymonkey.com/mame32/

[lokki]

By the way, I was just looking at a MAME 0.55 list of games (from here: http://mamerominfo.retrogames.com/) and it shows Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Metal Slug X, Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, Mortal Kombat 3, Street Fighter, Street Fighter II, Puzzle Bobble and Puzzle Bobble 2 all being supported in Mame 0.55, but I don't think these will play 60/60 on a 450Mhz. Is this correct?

I think the minimum requirements for neogeo where around 700Mhz.

[lokki]

Mame versions now, and each new one is generally slower than the last, so the Mame version matters A LOT.

Hi,
Not really sure I agree with the above statement. While it is true that the drivers for certain games get slower (as the emulation accuracy improves and speed hacks are removed) from version to version. In general I don't think each version is slower than the previous version.  (altough this has been true a few times, it is not true each version).  The opposite also occurs (newer versions are faster than previouos versions)

For example SuperNova games are considerably faster on mame 86 than they are on mame 85.

NeoGeo is faster on mame 84 than MAME 83

[IceCold]

By the way, I was just looking at a MAME 0.55 list of games (from here: http://mamerominfo.retrogames.com/) and it shows Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Metal Slug X, Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, Mortal Kombat 3, Street Fighter, Street Fighter II, Puzzle Bobble and Puzzle Bobble 2 all being supported in Mame 0.55, but I don't think these will play 60/60 on a 450Mhz. Is this correct?

For the neo geo games, if you use neoragex they should run full speed.  I am able run the metal slug games on my Pentium 2 366mhz laptop at a good speed.

[paigeoliver]

Um, the Neo Geo games run full speed IN MAME on a Celeron 400 if you use version .55

This constant arguement never ceases to amaze me. Sure Mame .86 might run neo geo faster than .85, but I promise you that .55 smokes them both. I'll run a quick test on my laptop.

[paigeoliver]

Ok, here you go, here is how that fast mame .86 stacks up against .55 and .65

[lokki]

Um, the Neo Geo games run full speed IN MAME on a Celeron 400 if you use version .55

This constant arguement never ceases to amaze me. Sure Mame .86 might run neo geo faster than .85, but I promise you that .55 smokes them both. I'll run a quick test on my laptop.

The point was that not all versions of mame are slower than the previous version.
How much slower is mame 56 than 55?
I don't disagree that older versions of mame run games faster (if sometimes less accurately).

But I disagree that "each new one is generally slower than the last". This is true sometimes but not "generally".
 
And the explanation for the slowdowns is usually improved emulation. (better graphics, better sound, etc).  Or changes to the mame core (this usually affects all games) made to extend the functionality of mame.

[paigeoliver]

The slowdowns are better explained this way.

Mame .55 probably already had Nam 1975 emulated perfectly. But there was another Neo Geo game or another game using the same processor/soundchip/monkeymagicinput chip that didn't properly work using the existing core, so existing emulation core for that processor/soundchip/monkeymagicinputchip had to be made more complex to support THAT game and thus slows down the old game.

[Chris]

Also, vectors got a lot slower in later versions due to alpha blending.

[paigeoliver]

There are of course SOME anomolies

Hustle

Mame .55 ----- 164 fps

mame .65 ----- 681 fps

Mame .86 ----- 533 fps

In the case of hustle the changes appear to be driver specific, as it displays different warning messages in each version, and changes to a different color in the current version.

[goofy]

Is ArcadeOS just a MAME frontend similar to MAME32 or is it actually a different emulator?

Also, any suggested operating system I should run? Win98 or XP?

[paigeoliver]

WIndows 95, 98 or DOS. Don't put XP on it for any reason.

ArcadeOS is just a frontend, although it couldn't be less like mame32.

[danny_galaga]

without being a computer expert, id have to agree with putting an os no younger than win98. xp would be too clunky on a 450mhz.
win98 strips down quite nicely, and i guess dos would be REALLY streamlined...

[mred84]

Well, i'm convinced .55 is faster than the later versions.
I asked on a lot of forums and all point to .55 for a 400mhz type machine.
They all support paigeoliver's theory. So i am convinced and want to run that version. Trouble is, i have a .76 romset. Getting the .55 mameversion is not a problem. But getting the romset is.

I know there is a program called clrmame that should be able to downgrade my romset. But to be honest, it has a learning curve like a
brick wall. I can't figure the damn thing out. Are there any tutorials or help files for this. Or an easier way to downgrade a romset?

[JoyMonkey]

I know there is a program called clrmame that should be able to downgrade my romset. But to be honest, it has a learning curve like a
brick wall. I can't figure the damn thing out. Are there any tutorials or help files for this. Or an easier way to downgrade a romset?

EasyEmu has a very good ClrMame tutorial. Take a look here:
http://www.mameworld.net/easyemu

To rollback from .76 to .55, you will need to get some of the original .55 roms that would have been changed over the last couple of years. There are places to download these 'rollback' sets, but I can't remember where.

[menace]

hey I just made a .37b12 set lets see if I can remember the steps--actually maybe I'll make a separate post since this seems to come up a lot.

[goofy]

Just for the record, I tested out a few games on a 700Mhz, Win98, 128MB RAM, MAME 0.56 on Arcade@Home Frontend v0.37b and here are a few of the results:

Street Fighter 60/60 FPS
Street Fighter II about 30/60 FPS
Puzzle Bobble 2 about 20/60 FPS

[paigeoliver]

Ok, if you are only getting those numbers then your computer has a virus, is poorly configured, or you have some other issue. A quick test showed SF 2 running at 150 frames per second on my pentium 733 laptop.

Once again, you have a virus, you have a configuration issue, or you don't have enough ram and are hitting the swap file constantly.

[paigeoliver]

A few more test of same roms across different versions.

Testing environment is a Pentium 3 733 laptop, using mamepp.exe

I did a single full install of .55 and simply copied the .exe files for .65, .75, and .86 into the installation folder with each version renamed to its version number. That way all versions are sharing the same configs, etc.

64street
55 - 121
65 - 116
75 - 124
86 - 117


citycon
55 - 220
65 - 257
75 - 265
86 - 243

galaga88
55 - 107
65 - 84
75 - 86
86 - 74

Milliped
55 - 228
65 - 346
75 - 354
86 - 323


TMNT
55 - 144
65 - 161
75 - 138
86 - 136

In no cases here was the newest version the fastest version, although SOME games did better using a new version than .55

EDIT, more tests

Star Wars
55 - 76
65 - 90
75 - 87
86 - 79

Klax
55 - 403
65 - 361 (changed to partial updates?)
75 - 275
86 - 270

punchout
55 - 160
65 - 138
75 - 143
86 - 137

snowbros
55 - 273
65 - 224
75 - missing rom
86 - missing rom

irobot
55 - 113
65 - 134
75 - 130
86 - 135