Diagonal joystick games..

[southpaw13]

Besides Q*Bert, what is the list of games that use a diagonal joystick (4-way)?

Thanks, I'm working on a Q*Bert setup and want to know which games to include on the system.  Also, I'm using 2 buttons if that makes a difference....

Thanks,
Southpaw

[Jakobud]

The only other one i can think of is Congo Bongo.

[crashwg]

Ya know... you can set up mame to use upleft for left, upright for up, downright for right and downleft for down right.  Granted, it won't have the feel of a 4-way restricted stick rotated 45

[southpaw13]

Yeah, I've tried it.  NOTHING compairs to a dedicated 4-way turned 45 degrees for Q*Bert.   This cab (dare I say it) is for my wife.....

So any other games out there besides Q*Bert and Congo Bongo that take a diagonal 4-way?

Thanks,
Southpaw

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'd put a T-stik Plus up against almost any rotated 4-way for precision and feel.

I have some NOS Wico 4-ways, and an original Pacman stick, and much prefer the T-stiks.

The ultra-short throw on them that bugs people for normal 4-way games, makes the stick travel perfect for 45 degree games to me.

[spidermonkey]

Dammit, there is one more game that uses a 45 degree 4-way but I can't think of it. It wasn't nearly as popular as Q-bert and Congo Bongo but none the less it did use this type of stick. Give me some time and maybe I'll think of it.

[Sylentwulf]

There's GOT to be a way to make a 4-way stick rotatable (I mean the whole assembly, base and all, inside the cab.).

As awesome as it would be to have a diag 4-way for Q*Bert, no matter how you look at it, that's just a waste of space for 2 games (Unless it's ONLY going to be playing those 2 games)

[southpaw13]

Actually, mine does rotate.  I am just trying to keep separate rom lists depending on how it is rotated...

Here is what I built (see pic).  I wanted to keep the CPO as original as possible so I did not want to use any type of restrictor plates.  The control panel has to be lifted and then four wing nuts hold it in place.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I had originally intended to use a rotating system on my 4-way that had a large circle routed out of the back side of the cp 3/8" deep, and held the stick on a 3/8" thick circle piece that had circular slots cut into it.

This would allow you to use carriage bolts through the top piece, with just the center hole and bolt heads showing, and put wing nuts on the bottom.
Once the wing nuts were loosened, the entire assembly would rotate 45 degrees, and then the wing nuts would be tightened again.

After getting my T-stiks, I scrapped this idea, but it would work for someone really wanting a 45/90 degree 4-way.

[Rocky]

There are only 3 games (plus clones) that use a 4-way diagonal:

Q*bert
Congo Bongo
Q*bert's Qubes

I made a dedicated Q*bert panel for my machine because it was originally a Q*bert (I couldn't resist -- plus I agree that the diagonal thing doesn't feel the same)

Congo Bongo is the only one of the games that uses a button, and it only uses one.

On my Q*bert panel and tied the P2 start button to also be the jump button in Congo Bongo.

Good Luck on the project,

Rocky

[Blakey]

What about Tylz? (bottom two broken for me, but I read the thread when it was new)

http://www.mame.net/wip0405.html

http://spacemul.emu-france.com/screen2.php3?id2=20165&lang=eng

http://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=144652&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=5#Post144652

http://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=144682&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=5#Post144682

[Kremmit]

Posted by: southpaw13  Posted on: Today at 06:49:31pm  
Yeah, I've tried it.  NOTHING compairs to a dedicated 4-way turned 45 degrees for Q*Bert.  This cab (dare I say it) is for my wife.....
 

You got a cab for your wife?  

I just got a MAME cab for my wife...  
It was the best trade I ever made.  

[southpaw13]

I got an arcade cab that I am turning into a Mame cab, I restore them and add Mame...

[spidermonkey]

I knew there was one more.   "Inferno" by Williams. This game actually uses two sticks per player. One 4-way on a 45 degree angle and one 8-way trigger stick with two buttons. An extremely odd combination of controls for this game but can be played correctly in MAME if you happen to have both a 45 degree 4-way and a Discs of Tron stick on your cp.  

[Minwah]

I bet a load of old 8-bit computer games would work well with a diagonal stick.

Head over Heals,
Batman (3d),
Spindizzy...

Just a few I remember from my old Amstrad CPC days  

[pathdoc2]

I've been putting a diagonal 4 way into my cab because I love Q-bert.  Here is a pic during construction.  Trackball isn't in place yet.

[Doc-]

I put one on my modular cabinet - there is absolutely no substitute for the 4 way dedicated diagonal mount for these games.  Even a cheap 4 way on the 45 degree mount is better than the alternatives.

  A friend came over and set a personal best on it the very first time he played with the 45 degree stick even though he has a conventional MAME himself (with regular joysticks) and had already played the game a lot.

I have the modular panels to pull off the "Inferno" setup as well.  Just pop the Q-bert stick on the left and a hacked "Tron" style stick on the right.  

[NoOne=NBA=]

I put one on my modular cabinet - there is absolutely no substitute for the 4 way dedicated diagonal mount for these games.  Even a cheap 4 way on the 45 degree mount is better than the alternatives.

At risk of starting a flame war here, what alternatives have you personally tested?

There is no difference in the SHAPE of the restrictor plates between a straight mounted 8-way (provided it is not a Wico stick, which doesn't have corners--or a Super, which has soft corners), and a turned 4-way.
This leaves stick throw and overall feel as the only two variables.

For stick throw, my T-stiks in 8-way mode have a 3/16" each way throw (3/8" total), vs. the 3/4" total for both my Wico and my Pacman stick.
I will give you that the turned 4-way is much preferable to an 8-way Ultimate, Competition, or Super.
All those sticks have REALLY long throws to get to the diagonals, and the corners on the Super are "soft", as I mentioned earlier.
I put foam tape on my Comps to stop the stick as soon as it depresses the button, and still get 1"+ total throw on them corner-to-corner.

With regard to feel (which is a very subjective thing), I much prefer the feel of the T-stiks for games that require precise moves in a given direction, like Q*Bert.
They go from center to a given direction much quicker, and are wonderful when you try to reverse directions quickly because they don't have to travel as far.

As far as an 8-way stick not feeling the same as a turned 4-way, everybody who thinks that needs to try a T-stik Plus.
If you close your eyes, and pull the stick in circles--you get a perfect square.
This is the same perfect square you get with a rotated 4-way.

The other big advantage to the T-stik is that you can actually have THREE sticks in the same spot (an 8-way, a 4-way, and a rotated 4-way), all with the same stick.
My modular system has been all about perfect emulation of the original controls, but from a player's standpoint.
The T-stik PLAYS much better for me than any rotated 4-way I've tried, so the 4-way I was going to use as a dedicated 45 stick is sitting unopened in my pile.

[Dartful Dodger]

Escape From The Planet Of The Robot Monsters

 

[NoOne=NBA=]

That one uses a Hall Effect joystick, IIRC.

[Doc-]

At risk of starting a flame war here, what alternatives have you personally tested?

No offense taken.  

For me its much like the difference between playing a 4 way vs 8 way joystick on 4 way games.  You can play with the 8 way joystick but the 4 way is a little better.  It was like night and day when I went from my 8 ways (I have competitions and supers) to the rotated 4 way.  Similarly using the straight mounted 4 ways at an angle was a poor solution.

I don't have a T-stick, but if it has a square diagonal restrictor that defines the corners well I can see where the feel of the stick might be similar to the rotated 4 way.  The big advantage of the rotated 4 way is that you can very easily find all four diagonal directions due to the diamond restrictor plate.  This can be difficult with many of the other 8 way joysticks you mentioned that either have round or poorly defined corners.

[NoOne=NBA=]

That would explain it then.
The T-stik has a really small restrictor that has really bad corners to those who don't like them, in addition to its short throw.
All the Happs sticks feel really loose and sloppy by comparison.

Another stick I've got that makes a really good rotated 4-way is one of these.
They say MCA AUSTRALIA on them, which I'm assuming is the name of the company that makes them.
I picked one up on a whim when I was buying a bunch of other stuff from that seller, mostly because someone else here asked about it, and I didn't know whether to recommend it.

The switches on it are the lever type, like the Super; but it uses a rubber centering grommet, and has the hard corners like the T-stik.
The throw on them is a little longer than the T-stik, but definitely shorter than the Happs.
I don't have that one mounted, so it's a little hard to actually measure; but it's right in the range of the Wico 4-way and Pacman sticks.

The one thing I will give the rotated Wico vs. the T-stik is that the stick is a little easier to move on the Wico.
I tend to move the sticks with alot of force though, so the shorter throw makes a bigger difference to me than the resistance of the stick.

[Kremmit]

Another stick I've got that makes a really good rotated 4-way is one of these.
They say MCA AUSTRALIA on them, which I'm assuming is the name of the company that makes them.
I picked one up on a whim when I was buying a bunch of other stuff from that seller, mostly because someone else here asked about it, and I didn't know whether to recommend it.

The switches on it are the lever type, like the Super; but it uses a rubber centering grommet, and has the hard corners like the T-stik.
The throw on them is a little longer than the T-stik, but definitely shorter than the Happs.
I don't have that one mounted, so it's a little hard to actually measure; but it's right in the range of the Wico 4-way and Pacman sticks.

I just got 4 of those "MCA Australia" sticks in a box of parts.  3 are just like the one pictured in the auction; the 4th one has a matching but taller handle.  I'm not using 'em, so if anybody wants to buy/trade - they are available.

[RandyT]

Anyone who really likes games that use diagonals should look at an OMNI-Stick in 8-way mode as well.  The throw is short enough to be very responsive and you know exactly when you are in a corner.  You also get good, positive diagonal switching due to the way the actuator is designed (no metal leafs on the switches which could  cause variations if improperly adjusted)

As they use a rotating restrictor, there is virtually no difference between using the OMNI-Stik for diagonals or setting it for true 4-way mode and turning the entire stick 45 degrees.

I'd call this a shameless plug, but it's not.  These sticks really are great for this application, as well as others (....ok, maybe that last part was a little shameless )

RandyT

[Wade]

At risk of starting a flame war here, what alternatives have you personally tested?

No offense taken.  

For me its much like the difference between playing a 4 way vs 8 way joystick on 4 way games.  You can play with the 8 way joystick but the 4 way is a little better.  It was like night and day when I went from my 8 ways (I have competitions and supers) to the rotated 4 way.  Similarly using the straight mounted 4 ways at an angle was a poor solution.

I don't have a T-stick, but if it has a square diagonal restrictor that defines the corners well I can see where the feel of the stick might be similar to the rotated 4 way.  The big advantage of the rotated 4 way is that you can very easily find all four diagonal directions due to the diamond restrictor plate.  This can be difficult with many of the other 8 way joysticks you mentioned that either have round or poorly defined corners.

I agree with No=One on this, I have the J-sticks (similar to the T-Stick Plus) and in 8-way mode and configured properly for a diagonal 4-way game, they have the correct feel.  I have played Qbert recently on an original cab and it played just like it does on my cab.  I also played an original Qbert that had the wrong type of joystick in it (a soft-corner 8 way of some sort) and it was far harder than mine or the correct original.

Wade

[NoOne=NBA=]

I assumed the Omni-Stick would work based on the pictures of the restrictor, but wasn't going to make a recommendation based solely on looking at a picture.

I also assumed the J-sticks would work; but, again, I haven't actually tried one first-hand.

[JustMichael]

Personally I love using a Super for Qbert and such games.  I just setup Mame to only accept the diagonals.

[Aceldamor]

Escape From The Planet Of The Robot Monsters

 

I thought that used a 49 way.....

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm pretty sure it was a Hall Effect stick in the arcades, similar to the ones on RoadRunner.

The function of the Hall Effect is the same as the 49-way, so it's difficult to tell without being able to see the base of the stick.

The Hall Effect uses magnets to sense direction/distance; the 49-way uses optics.

[MinerAl]

I know it's not original, but I always thought Zaxxon (and Super Zaxxon) would've been better with a 45

[Minwah]

I'm pretty sure it was a Hall Effect stick in the arcades, similar to the ones on RoadRunner.

The function of the Hall Effect is the same as the 49-way, so it's difficult to tell without being able to see the base of the stick.

The Hall Effect uses magnets to sense direction/distance; the 49-way uses optics.

Yes AFAIK EFTPOTRM used hall effect sticks...

[NoOne=NBA=]

I know it's not original, but I always thought Zaxxon (and Super Zaxxon) would've been better with a 45

[MinerAl]

I know it's not original, but I always thought Zaxxon (and Super Zaxxon) would've been better with a 45

[telengard]

I put one on my modular cabinet - there is absolutely no substitute for the 4 way dedicated diagonal mount for these games.  Even a cheap 4 way on the 45 degree mount is better than the alternatives.

  A friend came over and set a personal best on it the very first time he played with the 45 degree stick even though he has a conventional MAME himself (with regular joysticks) and had already played the game a lot.

I have the modular panels to pull off the "Inferno" setup as well.  Just pop the Q-bert stick on the left and a hacked "Tron" style stick on the right.  

Isn't having a modular panel awesome?  

Today I am going to make a module for the original Pac-Man joy I picked up on eBay.  Can't wait to try it!!
At some point I'll be making a Q-bert/CB joy module.  It'd be really cool to have that pinball knocker sound like the real Q-bert did.  Now that would be something...

[telengard]

That would explain it then.
The T-stik has a really small restrictor that has really bad corners to those who don't like them, in addition to its short throw.
All the Happs sticks feel really loose and sloppy by comparison.

Another stick I've got that makes a really good rotated 4-way is one of these.
They say MCA AUSTRALIA on them, which I'm assuming is the name of the company that makes them.
I picked one up on a whim when I was buying a bunch of other stuff from that seller, mostly because someone else here asked about it, and I didn't know whether to recommend it.

The switches on it are the lever type, like the Super; but it uses a rubber centering grommet, and has the hard corners like the T-stik.
The throw on them is a little longer than the T-stik, but definitely shorter than the Happs.
I don't have that one mounted, so it's a little hard to actually measure; but it's right in the range of the Wico 4-way and Pacman sticks.

The one thing I will give the rotated Wico vs. the T-stik is that the stick is a little easier to move on the Wico.
I tend to move the sticks with alot of force though, so the shorter throw makes a bigger difference to me than the resistance of the stick.

Does the T-stik use leaf springs?  For me, nothing but leafs feel right on these older games.  Did Q-bert have a leaf joystick or ms?  The one they have near me seems to be a microswitch one.    
I'm almost positive that Congo Bongo used a rotated 4 way leaf joystick.

[Minwah]

It'd be really cool to have that pinball knocker sound like the real Q-bert did.  Now that would be something...

This was done...by whom I can't remember.  I think the knocker was triggered by a keyboard LED...

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think they probably went with the un-45

[NoOne=NBA=]

Isn't having a modular panel awesome?  

Yes.

Today I am going to make a module for the original Pac-Man joy I picked up on eBay.  Can't wait to try it!!
At some point I'll be making a Q-bert/CB joy module.  It'd be really cool to have that pinball knocker sound like the real Q-bert did.  Now that would be something...

Check out this.

[telengard]

Isn't having a modular panel awesome?  

Yes.

Today I am going to make a module for the original Pac-Man joy I picked up on eBay.  Can't wait to try it!!
At some point I'll be making a Q-bert/CB joy module.  It'd be really cool to have that pinball knocker sound like the real Q-bert did.  Now that would be something...

Check out this.

Wow, that is sweet.    

I wonder what kind of joystick that is.  Looks sorta like a nintendo one only a little longer and with a black shaft.

[spidermonkey]

The Gottlieb stick's balltop is similar in size to the Nintendo sticks and Sega's Frogger stick but I'm pretty sure Gottlieb made their own controls. They were a fairly large company mainly focusing on pinball machines but they obviously had manufacturing plant and were fully capable of designing their own joysticks along with all the parts they made for their pinball machines. The Q-bert stick is a leafswitch based stick. I'm pretty sure Paige Oliver has an original Q-stick laying around so maybe he could post pics.  I know I'd like to see a close up of the stick just to see what it looks like. I'm pretty sure that the square base of the stick gets mounted in the same position as a regular stick but I think the four leafswitches themselves are positioned diagonally which makes it a little different from a regular 4-way. Of course you can get the same effect by just turning a regular 4-way stick and mounting the whole base on a 45 degree angle. Maybe Paige can confirm the differences as I am not positive on this.