Where to buy "KeyWiz"?

[Dougmeister]

1) Have been told that hacking a keyboard is a pain in the butt so I should look into buying a circuit.

2) I found these prices on the IPAC:

(28 inputs) $39.00  
(56 inputs) $65.00  
USB (28 inputs) $43.00  
USB (56 inputs) $69.00

http://www.ultimarc.com/orderd.html

But cannot find the "KeyWhiz", which I've been told is cheaper (if you live in the U.S.)  Anyone know where I can get this and is it a good product?  

Thanks.

[Witchboard]

http://www.groovygamegear.com

[Dougmeister]

Wow... that was quick.  Thanks.

1) Is it just as good as the IPAC?

2) Why buy it?  Will it save me hours upon hours of aggravation or what?

[Witchboard]

1)  I haven't had experience with either, yet.  I bought an IPAC because I was already ordering a T-Stick Plus and a J-Stick and it didn't increase the shipping.

2)  Any keyboard encoder will save you time/aggravation vs. a keyboard hack.  If they didn't, they would't be sold.  

[Dougmeister]

Again, thank you.

I am on somewhat of a limited budget, so I may try the keyboard hack first (already ordering joysticks & buttons from X-Gaming on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=3293610641

3) That's a good price, right?

4) For a novice with some help from a more talented friend , how much time should be estimated for a keyboard hack?  A few hours?

[Chris]

Wow... that was quick.  Thanks.

1) Is it just as good as the IPAC?

2) Why buy it?  Will it save me hours upon hours of aggravation or what?

1) The KeyWiz doesn't support LED's. Otherwise, they're both excellent products.

2) My keyboard hack works very well and was dirt cheap.  That said, I'd probably never do it again for a signifigant amount of inputs.  If you don't love to solder, don't even try.

[maraxle]

I love my KeyWiz.  I haven't used an IPAC, though, so I can't compare them.  It is so easy to use.  The only thing you might not like is the hard switch to turn on the keyboard port.  I understand the reasoning for it (to improve performance), and it doesn't bother me since I rarely have to plug in a keyboard, but others might not like it.

[Tiger-Heli]

Wow... that was quick.  Thanks.

1) Is it just as good as the IPAC?

2) Why buy it?  Will it save me hours upon hours of aggravation or what?

You can search the boards for comparisions, but basically -

KeyWiz supports 32 inputs, I-PAC supports 28.
KeyWiz has a more flexible shift (Shazaaam!) function.
I-PAC has USB support.
I-PAC has keyboard LED support
I-PAC has an automatic keyboard pass-thru, Keywiz has a switch to select between arcade controls and keyboard.
I-PAC remembers memory settings (if not using defaults), KeyWiz must have custom settings loaded from software (run the KeyWiz app at boot-up).

Beyond that, they do the same things -

As far as why either one if better than a keyboard hack - see
http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html

but basically, a keyboard hack is limited to at most 20 (16 with some tricks, usually) non-ghosting inputs.  These will not match the MAME defaults, and cannot be reprogramed for different applications.  Also wiring is more difficult, and apart from the time and effort involved, there is a very real possibility of frying your computer if you aren't experienced at soldering.  

[Dougmeister]

Thank you all very much.

You've convinced me to go w/ the KeyWiz.

What about that eBay auction I listed up above?  Are those good prices for 2 joysticks and 20 buttons ($20 + $8 shipping)?

[Tiger-Heli]

3) That's a good price, right?

It's the same price as their website, and they aren't up to the quality of Happ Controls, but they're not bad, and it's hard to say $20 for 2 joys and 20 buttons is a bad deal regardless.

4) For a novice with some help from a more talented friend , how much time should be estimated for a keyboard hack?  A few hours?

Depending on your skill-set and that of the talented friend, the KeyWiz Eco for $26.95 (?) has all the feature of the KeyWiz MAX (except maybe the keyboard pass-thru, and just requires you to solder your own components to the board.).

If you're dead-set on hacking a keyboard - following the guide I linked to above, expect about 1.5 hours for mapping out the matrix, 1 hour for choosing keys, and probably 1-2 hours for soldering (never got beyond choosing the keys myself). And 1-2 hours for wiring to controls.

Cost will be around $10-15 too if you have to buy wire, solder, and terminal strips (which I would recommend doing).

[Witchboard]

If you feel you still need to solder something you can always buy the KeyWiz Eco.  

$20 for 20 pushbuttons with switches and 2 joys sounds good to me.  I'm not sure what the quality is,  but if you're strapped you can always replace them later when you have the $.

If you're just starting do yourself a favor and make your list and check it twice.  That way, you don't buy something from somebody and pay to have it shipped just to turn around and buy something else from the same vendor and have to pay shipping again.

[Stingray]

Another note on hte KeyWiz vs Ipac, the Ipac is the only one to work with a Mac.

-S

[Dougmeister]

Ok.  So is this all I need?

Two (2) joysticks
Twenty (20) buttons
One (1) KeyWiz Max

If I go w/ the cheaper version, I just need to buy some solder and borrow a soldering gun, right?

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok.  So is this all I need?
Two (2) joysticks
Twenty (20) buttons
One (1) KeyWiz Max

You might want different colored start and coin buttons.  You might want quick disconnects to connect to the joysticks and buttons.  You need wire.  You need something to mount the joysticks and buttons in.  Computer - etc .  . .

If I go w/ the cheaper version, I just need to buy some solder and borrow a soldering gun, right?

and wire and the expertise to use the soldering gun.  (Also, I would recommend using terminal strips with the Eco Version, although that will eat up most of your cost savings . . .

[Dougmeister]

Ok, almost done  

You've convinced me to buy the KeyWiz Max instead of the "Eco".

I have the computer and am *this* close to getting a cabinet.

I can get the quick disconnects and the wire at Radio Shack, eh?

And I'm not proud, so I may end up painting some of the buttons, unless xgaming will sell me a couple extra for the Player start, coin buttons, etc.

(Edit: they don't sell other colored buttons, so if you know a cheap place for a few, let me know)

[NoBonus]

I have some X-gaming parts and they are okay, but...

they don't feel very good and they make an echo-y and loud click.  I would go with one of the bundle deals on eBay for the Happs stuff.  I will find you a link.  Oh, and painting buttons seems impractical.

[Tiger-Heli]

I can get the quick disconnects and the wire at Radio Shack, eh?
And I'm not proud, so I may end up painting some of the buttons, unless xgaming will sell me a couple extra for the Player start, coin buttons, etc.

www.groovygamegear.com also sells the quick disconnects and the start and coin buttons.  Search the boards as there are some better prices than Radio Shack if you are wiring a whole cab, but Radio Shack will get the job done (so would a hardware or autoparts store as well, though).

[NoBonus]

I have some X-gaming parts and they are okay, but...

they don't feel very good and they make an echo-y and loud click.  I would go with one of the bundle deals on eBay for the Happs stuff.  I will find you a link.  Oh, and painting buttons seems impractical.

This setup is $36 (the X-arcade one is $28 when you include shipping), but has free shipping; you could get all Happ parts with better switches and choice of colors for a couple bucks more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3294291684&rd=1


NoBonus

[Chris]

I can get the quick disconnects and the wire at Radio Shack, eh?

Radio Shack only carries these in miniscule quantities.   Order some from Peale (the red ones); I think he offers them at $6 for 100.

[Dougmeister]

This setup is $36 (the X-arcade one is $28 when you include shipping), but has free shipping; you could get all Happ parts with better switches and choice of colors for a couple bucks more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3294291684&rd=1


NoBonus

Any good reviews on the Happ "Ultimate" joysticks?  Are these any good?

Happ has at least 3 joysticks (ultimate, super, and something else?)...  Everyone seems to really like the "super"...

[Tiger-Heli]

This setup is $36 (the X-arcade one is $28 when you include shipping), but has free shipping; you could get all Happ parts with better switches and choice of colors for a couple bucks more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3294291684&rd=1


NoBonus

Any good reviews on the Happ "Ultimate" joysticks?  Are these any good?

Happ has at least 3 joysticks (ultimate, super, and something else?)...  Everyone seems to really like the "super"...

Thought you already ordered joysticks?

Ultimates are generally the least favorite here.

Supers are good for Capcom fighters and games like Time Pilot that want circular motions.

Competitions and generally preferred for games that need definite diagonals.

While you're ordering the KeyWiz Max, you might check out the Progidy or Omni-Stik.  These have a very short throw, but that's better for a lot of games.

FWIW.

[Lilwolf]

Oscar has one.  Goto his website to read it (www.oscarcontrols.com I believe)

As for my opinion

Supers - smooth circles.. No corners.  Great for time pilot / gyrus
Compititions / Ultimates - corners.  feel each corner.

Compitions are better then Ultimates...  But you wont notice a difference until you play with them next to each other.  But I don't believe I have ever heard anyone say that they liked an ultimate over a comp when they where both there...

This setup is $36 (the X-arcade one is $28 when you include shipping), but has free shipping; you could get all Happ parts with better switches and choice of colors for a couple bucks more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3294291684&rd=1


NoBonus

Any good reviews on the Happ "Ultimate" joysticks?  Are these any good?

Happ has at least 3 joysticks (ultimate, super, and something else?)...  Everyone seems to really like the "super"...

[Chris]

Ultimates are awful.  I originally bought some and replaced them within a few months with supers.  The diagonals on them are super sensitive, so it's tricky to go straight in any direction.  (Play Venture with them and you'll see what I mean.)

[Dougmeister]

Thought you already ordered joysticks?

Ultimates are generally the least favorite here.

Supers are good for Capcom fighters and games like Time Pilot that want circular motions.

Competitions and generally preferred for games that need definite diagonals.

While you're ordering the KeyWiz Max, you might check out the Progidy or Omni-Stik.  These have a very short throw, but that's better for a lot of games.

No, haven't ordered yet.

I guess my problem is that I don't have an opinion yet on 4-way vs. 8-way.  I really don't think I'll care as long as they are of good quality, a decent price ($35 each is a bit steep for now), and good for the most number of games.

So which auction would be the best way to go?

Competition - $43.95
14 Happ buttons, 2 Happ Competition joysticks, $43.95 (free shipping)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3293406451

- or -

Super - $46.50 (?)
2 Happ Super joysticks ($23.99 + $5 shipping)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3294497809

have to buy buttons separately ($1.25 each)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3294291383

= $29 + (14 x $1.25) = $29 + $17.50 = $46.50 (+ extra shipping?)

I'm not comfortable buying the Prodigy or Omni-Stik, unless you think they are better "all-round" joysticks and comparable quality to the Happs.

- or -

maybe the Happ Super would be the way to go.  Where is the actuator located that toggles the 4-way/8-way mode?  Is it hard to get to?

[Tiger-Heli]

No, haven't ordered yet.

Good, spend some time researching your options first and you'll be happier when you do order.  Decide what games you play, what style of joystick you like, etc, BEFORE you spend the money and then end up swapping stuff down the line for what you really want.

I guess my problem is that I don't have an opinion yet on 4-way vs. 8-way.

Well, you can't play fighters or vertical shooters with a true 4-way.  And you'll get frustrated playing Pac-Man or Donkey Kong with an 8-way.  Depending how the panel is laid out, your options are -
Switchable 4-way/8-way joystick for player 1
8-Way joystick with www.oscarcontrols.com joystick restrictors for player 1
8-Way joystick and separate dedicated 4-way joystick (maybe wired to same inputs).

 I really don't think I'll care as long as they are of good quality, a decent price ($35 each is a bit steep for now),

Granted $35 is a bit steep.  These and the T-Stik Plus (www.ultimarc.com, short throw and even stiffer springs than the Prodigy) are the only "above panel switchable" options.  You could get by with a Prodigy for P1 and an Omni-Stik for P2.  Or if you don't mind reaching under the panel to switch modes, I recommended the Omni-Stiks, which are a lot less.

* So then you guys think this auction would be the best way to go?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3293406451

That auction has a "BuyItNow" price of $43.95.  You could order the same stuff from www.therealbobroberts.com for $37.60 ($1.45*12 for pushbuttons, $1.60*2 for start buttons, $8.50*2 for joysticks) and you could get whatever colors you wanted as well.  The trick to E-bay is knowing what stuff fetches in the private sector so you don't get ripped off.

I'm not comfortable buying the Prodigy or Omni-Stik, unless you think they are better "all-round" joysticks and comparable quality to the Happs.

From what I've read on the boards, they are shorter throw and stiffer springs than the Happs, and at least as good if not better quality.  (Most Happs joysticks are Industrias Lorenzo's, BTW, and the Omni-Stik is similar to a Suzo, FWIW).  The shorter throw and stiffer springs should translate into quicker motions and greater precision, but without doing a side-by-side, it's hard to compare them, and it would probably be a lot of personal preference anyway.

* Or maybe the Happ Super would be the way to go.  Where is the actuator located that toggles the 4-way/8-way mode?  Is it hard to get to?

Nope, not the way to go - Okay, you get the newbie break here, but - There is no Toggle for the 4-way/8-way mode.  The process goes something like this -

1) Remove E-clip holding joystick shaft to base (Hope it doesn't break or go zinging across room, never to be seen again).
2) Flip actuator (hourglass looking piece, right above the E-clip on exploded view)
3) Re-install E-clip and hope it doesn't go zinging across room at this stage either.

If you have easy access to the bottom of your joysticks, it can be done in a couple of minutes, but it's not a simple solution, and I wouldn't recommend it.  Besides the fact that Supers in 4-way mode are not true 4-way sticks (you can still hit the diagonals) and don't work well for this.

EDIT:  Didn't see your earlier post where you mentioned 2 E-bay auction, but Bob Roberts is still a better deal.

[Dougmeister]

Thanks.  That's a lot to think about.

That auction has a "BuyItNow" price of $43.95.  You could order the same stuff from www.therealbobroberts.com for $37.60 ($1.45*12 for pushbuttons, $1.60*2 for start buttons, $8.50*2 for joysticks) and you could get whatever colors you wanted as well.  The trick to E-bay is knowing what stuff fetches in the private sector so you don't get ripped off.

But his shipping is $6 up to 1 lb, so other than picking my colors, it's really the same deal.

And do I want .25" or .187" Quick Disconnects?  And how many, 25 or 50?

[Chris]

And do I want .25" or .187" Quick Disconnects?  And how many, 25 or 50?

You want female .187's with the red jacket (18-22 ga.) for buttons and joysticks, two per button or per joystick direction.  Coin doors usually require .250's, but .250's in small quantities are easy to find at Radio Shack, Home Depot or many auto part stores.

[Tiger-Heli]

>Thanks.  That's a lot to think about.

Of course.

>But his shipping is $6 up to 1 lb, so other than picking my colors, it's >really the same deal.

I would rather pick my own colors than use the colors someone else picked for the same price.  Bob always throws in something free too, some Louisiana tradition :-)

>And do I want .25" or .187" Quick Disconnects?  And how many, 25 >or 50?

Most of the Happ stuff uses .187, some of the joysticks use .25, but I don't know which ones offhand.  You need two Quick Disconnects per switch, so two for each button and eight for each joystick.

Also - points of msg. board etiquette.

1) Don't change the subject line - Lots of us get E-mailed of replies.  If I see "someone replied to Where to get a KeyWiz", I know what it's about.  If I see "Someone replied to Thanks", I think "I didn't post in a thread about Thanks"

2) It's probably better to start a new post than to edit the previous one to add new questions.  Lots of times people are replying while you're editing, and they'll read new posts, but might not go through previous ones.

[SirPeale]

<shameless self promotion>Hey, I know a guy that has quick disconnects.  Cheap, too!</shameless self promotion>

http://www.pealefamily.net/cgi-bin/closedShop/Item.pl?action=ShowItem&id=2&quantity=1

[Dougmeister]

Gotcha.  Sorry 'bout that.

This is what I'm thinking now.  I gotta save $ somewhere, so I think I need to hold off on the Happ or Omnistick joysticks.

2 Arcade Joysticks, 20 Buttons $19.95
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=3293610641

(2) P1/P2 Pushbuttons @ $1.79 = $3.58
(1) KeyWiz Max 1.5 - $34.95
(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49
(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49
(4) Pushbuttons (@ $1.39) = $5.56  
= $47.58
+ $19.95
= $71.02

Whaddya think?

[Chris]

(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49
(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49

The blue disconnects are not correct for this project; they are for 10-14 ga. wire. You need the red ones.  Peale sells them $6.00 for 100.

[Dougmeister]

Thanks, Chris.  Looks like Peale gets some more business!

[Tiger-Heli]

Gotcha.  Sorry 'bout that.

This is what I'm thinking now.  I gotta save $ somewhere, so I think I need to hold off on the Happ or Omnistick joysticks.

2 Arcade Joysticks, 20 Buttons $19.95
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=3293610641

(2) P1/P2 Pushbuttons @ $1.79 = $3.58
(1) KeyWiz Max 1.5 - $34.95
(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49
(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49
(4) Pushbuttons (@ $1.39) = $5.56  
= $47.58
+ $19.95
= $71.02

Whaddya think?

The X-Arcade buttons and joysticks are also available separately from
http://www.xgaming.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=X&Category_Code=exp, Not sure how much shipping is, though.

My personal opinion is that this is fine if you very rarely play 4-way games, otherwise, if you play a lot of 4-way games, I would recommend spending the additional $17 for Omni-stik's

($13.50*2 - $9.95)

or the additional $13.50 for one Omni-Stik which you could mount in the center of the panel in 4-way mode.

[Dougmeister]

The X-Arcade buttons and joysticks are also available separately from
http://www.xgaming.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=X&Category_Code=exp, Not sure how much shipping is, though.

My personal opinion is that this is fine if you very rarely play 4-way games, otherwise, if you play a lot of 4-way games, I would recommend spending the additional $17 for Omni-stik's

($13.50*2 - $9.95)

or the additional $13.50 for one Omni-Stik which you could mount in the center of the panel in 4-way mode.

What do you think X-Gaming means when they say:

"These sticks can be used for classic arcade games, fighting games, 4 way classics, 8 way games and virtually any game."  Can you "toggle" these sticks (with some difficulty) the same way you can the Happ Super?

[Dougmeister]

And what's the deal with the OmniSTIK "Basic"?  It says it is:

"true 4-way and 8-way switchable with a simple twist of the bottom plate."

Is it really that easy?  (I.e., lift the control panel or open the coin door and twist the bottom plate?)

Also, the ordering page on GGG says something about a "pre-attached mounting plate" for $12.50 plus $1 additional shipping.  Do I need that?

[SirPeale]

If you're going to get QDs, esp the red ones, you better order now.  I've only got two packs of 100 each left (of the red) but plenty of blues.

Edit: gone now!  All I have left is the blues, both .187" and .250"

[Tiger-Heli]

What do you think X-Gaming means when they say:

"These sticks can be used for classic arcade games, fighting games, 4 way classics, 8 way games and virtually any game."  Can you "toggle" these sticks (with some difficulty) the same way you can the Happ Super?

It means they want to sell you a joystick.  "Can be used" and "Can be used effectively" are often two different things.

I'm not sure if the actuator can be swithced or not.  Nor really how bad they are for 4-way mode, but they wouldn't be a first choice.

[Tiger-Heli]

>And what's the deal with the OmniSTIK "Basic"?  It says it is:
>"true 4-way and 8-way switchable with a simple twist of the bottom >plate."
>Is it really that easy?  (I.e., lift the control panel or open the coin >door and twist the bottom plate?)

Yes.  OSCAR had a draft review of the Suzo 500 which is very similar somewhere.  Basically there is a square opening in the red plate on the bottom of the joystick that the shaft travels in.  Rotating the red plate moves the square into a diamond and PREVENTS (important) the stick from hitting the diagonals.

>Also, the ordering page on GGG says something about a >"pre-attached mounting plate" for $12.50 plus $1 additional >shipping.  Do I need that?

Depends on how good you are with wood/metal working.  The mounting plate is a 5-inch square plate that makes the stick look like a Prodigy without the actuating lever, although now for $26.  It makes installation super easy, though.

Other options - You can get a piece of sheet metal, cut a 1.75" hole in the center, cut a 4"x3.5 inch hole in your CP, mount the stick to the metal plate and the metal plate to the CP.

You can cut a 1.75" hole in the CP and bottom mount the sticks.

You can route a 1.75" by 1/2" recess for the "shoulder" of the joystick and cut a .75" (or 1-1/8") hole in the center of that for the shaft.

If you're really good with woodworking, you can top-mount the sticks in your cp and then use formica to cover the very top of the panel so the sticks don't show.

[Dougmeister]

Ok, how about this order:

GroovyGameGear:

$34.95 OmniStik "Prodigy" (1)
$13.50 OmniStik Basic (1)
$34.95 KeyWiz Max (1)
$  3.58 P1/P2 Pushbuttons ($1.79 x 2)
$27.80 Pushbuttons ($1.39 x 20)
$8.95 shipping (US Priority mail, insured)

Sub-total: $123.73

Peale
$6.00 100 Red quick disconnects (100)
---------------------
Total: $129.73

Is there any way to bring this down in price at all?  I can get the buttons cheaper at xgaming, but they may not be as good (?) and I would have to pay shipping.

I could skip the "Prodigy" and get 2 "Basics", but I really want to be able to switch between 4- and 8-way mode at least for player 1.

[RandyT]

(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49
(50) Female Quick Disconnects .187" - Blue - $3.49

The blue disconnects are not correct for this project; they are for 10-14 ga. wire. You need the red ones.

Not exactly correct.

The blue disconnects (at least the ones I offer) are for wire ga. 16 to 14.  Whether or not they are appropriate for any project depends on the wire size used and how many wires will be grouped inside the connector.

Think of "daisy chaining" 20 to 18 ga. wire and you will see where these can come in handy.  But again, it depends on the project.  

RandyT