Anyone else have bad experiences with HOLE SAW?

[GroovyTuesdaY]

I wanted to tell my  bad luck with HOLE SAWS and see if other have had this luck.    When i would start drilling my holes for buttons and or joysticks, the wood would start burning and the wood dust would start sticking really bad to the hole saw and it was a ---smurfette--- to get the wood out of the hole saw middle.  I tried several different methods of drilling the holes, but nothing seemed to help much.    I tried drilling with firm pressure, then lighter attempting to let the dust work its way up and out, but no luck; the wood stayed in the hole and started burning.
I also,  tried to drill about half way down one side, then flip the wood over and finish on the backside, but still it didn't help.

So, long story short, i had HORRIBLE luck with the hole saw.  Now, the drill i was using was a one speed cheapo drill from wal-mart, but i didn't think that would make it do what it was doing.    
Since i am getting ready to start a new control panel soon i wanted to see what experiences others have had with the hole saw or what other option people are using to drill their holes.  
I don't have a lot of tools, but if i need to buy something that would work better i can.
So, what do you all think?  what did i do wrong here and what would you do different ?

thanks for all the great help!
groovy~  

[SeanFu]

Are you trying to cut through MDF?

Just use a regular drill bit.  It'll get through.

If you must use a hole saw for some reason, pull your hole saw blade out frequently and use a stiff brush to clean the teeth.  Once they get gummed up it won't cut - it'll just make heat.

good luck.  Seriously though, try a standard drill bit.

[Iori]

Is cutting holes with a hole saw in MDF not something that is done often?  I hope that it is possible since I am getting ready to cut my cp tomorrow morning and then do the holes for the buttons on Sunday morning!    

[mushmouth]

I was drilling my first holes in 5/8" plywood tonight and had a similar experience with the hole saw. I would get about a quarter inch in and the same thing you described would happen. I'd take it out, clean it, then get through the rest of it (and the plexi) with no further incident. It's almost as if there was something about the layer of wood in the plywood at that point, but a more likely thing is that that's all the longer it takes for it to gum up, causing heat, etc...

I'm sandwiching my plexi (paper still on) between the CP wood and a piece of scrap wood, FWIW... It's kind of a pain in the arse, this process, and taking apart the hole saw and cleaning it after EVERY hole, but the holes are very very nice...

Unless you have a drill press, I'd highly discourage the use of a standard hole boring bit for your holes. They're not going to be pretty.

[GroovyTuesdaY]

I was doing 3/4" MDF.   It seemed like i had to clean my off alot more then that. Especially once it got burned wood stuck in it.  I would also have to remove the pilot drill from the center and then use a screw driver to punch out the  "plug" of wood after drilling my holes.

As far as a drill bit - I don't think have found any drill bits that were 1 1/8" at walmart or my local hardware store.   Only thing i found were hole saws and spade bits.

As far as spade bits go, those of you with experience, do those seem like they do well without being on a drill press and just going free hand.  I don't have a drill press of any kind at my disposal unfortunatly.
All my tools are basic at best, which really slows one down, but hey, its all i got, so i make do. Its not like i;m planning on doing this as a career lol.    On second thought............LOL. ok ok, nah,too much time and money , but i bet its fun

g~

[menace]

My first panel i did completely by hand with a drill and a hole saw--even the plexi  Anyways, i found with the holesaw in wood, if you slightly rock the drill as you are going in it went smoother and back it out frequently to let the dust clear off--keep the speed on though and let physics do its work (is that centrifugal or centripetal force?)

If you can swing it--get a drill press--not just for maming but everything--i just fixed my snow shovel with it  

[Techoverload]

Ok as the son of someone who ownes a tool supply/repair place I can give you these tips.

First speed and torque counts when drilling large holes. with whatever bit you are using. By speed I dont mean you need some super high speed drill but usually more speed in a tool also means more avilable power.

Second when choosing a hole saw make sure it has openins in the side usually angled which will help remove the dust as you are cutting.

If you can find a 1 1/8 spade bit it will work plenty fine on mdf (they tend to make a mess in ply. However if you use a spade the best way to get a good clean straight hole is to drill a very small pilot hole straight through on center this will help guide the tip of the spade straight. Also with spades if your drill is cheap then usually that means a fairly cheap plastic chuck (part that holds the bit) these cheaper ones alot of the time will have some wooble to them. Again a small pilot hole will combat this.

Auger bits imho just arent the right tool for the job as they dont normally produce smooth holes because of the aggresive cutting nature of the bit. though a expensive furniture makers style auger can produce good holes as they are sort of a combination of a spade and a normal screw type bit.

My prefered method is the pilot hole spade bit route because as long as your pilot hole is straight and you take your time with the spade the finished hole should be clean and true

[s4tay]

I also had the same problem working with 3/4" MDF. I was using a 1 1/8" hole saw from Harbor Freight. It heated up the bit, clogged the teeth often, and took forever to get through one hole. After I was done, my switches were swimming in the hole even though I used the right bit.

My advice, use a 1 1/8" Forstner bit. I got a good deal from Grizzly.com for a set. After using it recently for my player 1&2 buttons I instantly realized the folly in using the hole saw. The bit ate right through the MDF, clearing away all the material, not heating up, and the hole was clean and the perfect size for my switches. Also, it took less than a minute to do each hole. Just make sure you use a scrap piece of wood behind each hole you drill to prevent tear-out or flaking. Hope this helps.

[shmokes]

Yeah,  Forstner bits, while more expensive than hole saws, will solve all of your problems.

[Inaba]

Definitely forstner bits.  I can't imagine cutting MDF with anything else... expect maybe a spade bit, but forstner bits are definitely the way to go.

[Tailgunner]

Hole saws can work okay, but they can't extract the sawdust being created like other bit types. If you have a shop vac, use it's crevice tool, and have someone hold the hose end near the cut to help remove the sawdust. Every few seconds, back the hole saw out of the cut and it'll pull most of the sawdust out with it. This frees up the holesaw to keep it cutting without gumming up.

[Oldskool]

Try a spade bit. I just drilled 20 holes, and all of them were perfect.

TIP: When the tip of the bit pokes through the MDF, flip the board over and finish the hole by drilling the other way.

That leaves the "burr" in the middle of the hole.

[Minwah]

Try a spade bit. I just drilled 20 holes, and all of them were perfect.

TIP: When the tip of the bit pokes through the MDF, flip the board over and finish the hole by drilling the other way.

That leaves the "burr" in the middle of the hole.

Yep spade bits work great for button / barrel lock size holes...

Wish I'd got a few before I hole-sawed my vent holes (they are a bit rough).  The only reason I can think to use a hole-way now is for large holes.

[Lance]

What would you guys recommend for drilling holes through a metal control panel?

[JustMichael]

Nothing...
I would actually recommend a hole punch.  Of course you will need a smaller drill bit for metal to make a hole for the bolt to go through.

[bigmoe]

I was in Sears this afternoon and kind of just wandering around the tools section (I never used to do this) and I saw a table-top contraption wherein you mounted your power drill and supposedly could now use it like a drill press.

Anyone ever use this or have any comments on how well they think it would work?  I think it was in the $30-40 range.

And still use forstner bits?  (I'm actually contemplating working in pine right now, with a pretty small panel size.)

b

[GroovyTuesdaY]

OOOOO, that drill press thing sounds like a reasonable priced toy. hehehe
I will have to look into that as i don't want to spend a fortune on tools, but i do see myself wanting to start playing around making more panels and stuff.
In  all honesty i have been seriously considering making multiple control panels for each style of game that i would like to play.
One for spinners,  one for 2 way joystick style games, one just for button only type games like asteroids etc.  Might seem like a lot of panels, but it would be fun to tinker with and it would also allow me to tailor controls to specific game types i am playing at the time.
I don't know about everyone else, but i find myself going through cycles of styles of games. I will play street fighter/ mortal kombat type games for a while, then i will play old classic type games and then i will venture on to sideways scroller type games like rastan, wardner etc.
I am thinking about 4 panel types would probably do me.  
Spinner,  2 player street fighter layout,  trackball style and a two way joystick panel.

Now, just let me into homedepot and into the tools section to spend a small fortune hehehe.

G~

[rdagger]

I saw a table-top contraption wherein you mounted your power drill and supposedly could now use it like a drill press.

Anyone ever use this or have any comments on how well they think it would work?  I think it was in the $30-40 range.

Don't waste your money on the table-top jig.  They are awkward and clumsy.  You are better off buying a cheap drill press.  I recently was shopping for a drill press.  I was disappointed that the only good ones were several hundred dollars and weighed several hundred pounds.  I don't have much space so against my better judgment I picked up a cheap $67 five speed bench top GMC drill press at Lowes.  Much to my surprise it works great.  It has dual laser guides for very accurate holes and has no noticeable run out.  It only has 2" quill travel and it takes time to adjust, but for cab building it works great.  The only draw back is the 8" table only gives you a 4-1/8" depth of throat, which means the center of a button or joystick must be within 4-1/8" to the closest edge of the CP.  If you need a bigger drill press, Sears has very good prices.

Also I picked up a 1-1/8" carbide forstner bit which makes cutting button & joystick holes a pleasure.

[Nannuu]

Forstner bits!  I got a nice fat set at Costco from 1/4"-2" at 1/8" intervals for $36 and they have worked great so far.

[tmasman]

I've been using a spade bit from HD...
Never had a single problem drilling by hand (without drill press)...

I just start drilling the hole, & right when the spaded part starts to hit the wood, I make sure it's level (cutting evenly around the center) and press through about 2/3 of the way through... Then I flip the board over & finish it off from the other side... (The tip of the spade bit is usually through the back side by then.)

This gives a nice clean cut on both sides.

[Brax]

You really need to get the "feel" to use a hole saw properly.  After you get used to it, you won't burn any more holes.

Most people spin it WAY too fast and apply too much pressure.
A hole saw needs low RPM. Very low. You need a drill with variable RPM's.

Second is pressure. FEEL it cutting. Don't puch too hard. Once you get the hang of this you won't burn ever again.

Like any tool, once you learn how to use it properly it'll work fine for you. Yes, there's other (more expensive) tools that will do the job, but there's no need to use them once you learn to use this one properly.

p.s. One last bit of bad news. If you spin your hole saw at a million rpm and burn the crap out of it, there's a possibility you've dulled it beyond repair. No amount of technique will help you.  3 or 4 holes should be fine..... 30...  you may have made yourself a nice piece of scrap metal.

[GroovyTuesdaY]

Hmmm, the RPM issue would apply to me i believe, as the drill i was using was non varaible.   So, that would explain the burning. Perhaps i won't abandon the hole saw just yet , but rather look into getting a variable speed drill so i can try to cut more slowly.  
As you stated, there are some REAL expensive ways of going about this and i don't want or need to spend a fortune. heheh
Thanks for the info !
g~

[Iori]

Used a hole saw to rip into my cp this weekend and it worked ok for me...  Did have that same problem with the burning of the dust/wood on the first few holes, but then when I got down the process I didn't burn anymore and the cutting went quickly enough for me.  Used a old Kmart drill that is probably 30 years old too.  

The suggestion of getting down to where you have gotten the drill bit to put a hole through to the other side and then hitting the board from the other side works very well too if you haven't tried it yet.

[Ken Layton]

When I built wood control panels at Capitol Amusement I had a nice Craftsman drill press and a top quality hole saw. Never had a problem getting nice holes in wood. I had the pulleys set on low speed, cleaned off the hole saw teeth several times during the drilling operation, and had a shop vac handy to suck out the sawdust from the cut several times. I've drilled hundreds of control panel holes in wood and never dulled my hole saw.

Don't use the cheap hole saws. Buy a good one to start.

[eightbit]

The proper way to do this is with forstner bits for wood and a hole punch for metal.

Cheap drill presses are cheap...

The jig for putting your drill into can be nice. Its very cheap and can help drill accurate holes. They are also usually adjustable for round objects and for angles. They are nice to use for places a drill press can't go and they fit on a shelf or in a drawer a lot better than a drill press.

Of course if you can afford the money and space for a real drill press that is the best way to go. I got a new one for Christmas and I love it. I had a underpowered, undersized, wobbly old bench top DP that I upgraded from.

[JamesS]

Well it took me forever to drill all of my holes this last weekend with a cordless 12 volt drill.

I would stop sometimes and blow the dust out, but today my arm and shoulder are sore.  Once I got the lead bit through the MDF I would drill a little from the bottom, and then back to the top.  I still had some bad rips on the bottom, but nothing to bad.  Considering it had been forever since I did some real drilling.

I used a Hole Saw, next time I am taking advice from the people here.

[Frostillicus]

Forstner bit with a drill press for wood/mdf.  Seriously if you use that combination the cp will look like it just came off a CNC machine.  In my dinky apt I use this thing (well not this exact thing but close to it).  It works okay.  Just have to be steady with it, actually with anything.  

[Sasquatch!]

Chalk up yet another vote for ye olde forstner bit!  They are easy to use and cut clean.