Hall-effect joysticks?

[Inaba]

So... I was trying to play Road Runner last night from Atari, and it ocurred to me that the joystick required seemed to be an analog joystic, as it was next to impossible to play with a microswitch stick.

This lead me to look up the game, and it says it's a "Hall-Effect" joystick.  From what I can find, it seems that this joystick is indeed of an analog variety.  Is there any good way to emulate this?

I'm thinking about the only way I can get accurate controls in a game that requires this is to remap my spinner to the proper access, however this introduces problem(s) of it's own...

Anyone got further information on how to play games like Road Runner in Mame?

[SirPoonga]

was recently discussed on this board, do a search.

[Inaba]

Search for Hall-effect returns several posts.  Most of them from about a year ago, all of them talking about Dreamcast.

I care nothing for Dreamcast, thus search returns nothing of value, much less anything "recent."

So the question/original posts still stands.  If I'm missing the topic at hand in the search, let me know the keywords!

[SirPoonga]

You know you don't try one search string?  Take the dash out, first thread to pop up!

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=11777;start=msg92626

Also, the DC stuff is good two, it give info on how to use a hall effect.

[Minwah]

Although it will not be perfect, a PC analog stick works pretty well with Road Runner etc. (1million times better than a digital stick imo).

[Xiaou2]

 A dreamcast controller does not use Hall Effect.  Its just a typical mini-pot.  

 A hall effect stick does not use pots.  Its more like a free floating magnet that moves arround inside of a magnetic sensor field.  

 The reason they used this instead of a typical analog is probably because there is less friction (no pot linkages),  smaller size, and reliability (pots burn out faster).   And because there isnt the added linkage friction - gives better feel and overall accuracy.

  A typical pc analog will work fine.  Modification to the return spring will yeild a better feel and control - as seen on my custom sini-stick design:

 www.xiaou2.homestead.com/arcade.html

[Inaba]

Ok... do I really need to list every thread, or every post that came back in the search and why it's inappropriate to my question?  I'm not trying to bust any moderators balls here, and perhaps I worded my question wrong.

If  the standard for this board is to detail why every previous post mentioning a given topic is inappropriate in context, that's fine... I will do it to comply, but it seems ridiculously complex.  Instead, I believe the onus should be on the reader to discriminate and understand the question as asked in relation to the topic, as opposed to it being the posters job to explain why any given post is different than similar posts.

So someone let me know what the standard is, and I'll comply with it.
 
The resulting threads for the search do not apply to my question.  I am uninterested (for the scope of this thread) in modifying, interfacing with or utilizing Dreamcast controllers.  I am also (unstated, but I thought implied) uninterested in creating/buying/installing a hall-effect controller or a drop in replacement, and/or adding yet another stick to contend with on the exceedingly rare occasions I would need it.

What I am interested in, however, is a way to emulate a hall-effects controller w/ "standard" MAME controls.  Evidenced by this quote from my original post:

I'm thinking about the only way I can get accurate controls in a game that requires this is to remap my spinner to the proper access, however this introduces problem(s) of it's own...

I still would like to hear if anyone has any suggestions for this sort of thing.  It seems to me remapping the analog controls (TB or spinner depending on if you need just one axis or two) to a calibrated point would imitate a hall-effect or analog stick.

In the case of the Road Runner game, would it be possible to remap one axis for the spinner to the up/down movement of Mr. Beep Beep himself and using a stick for speed movement?  Or is this something I would have to hack directly into MAME myself?

*EDIT* - Since this thread is already mostly de-railed, please feel free to delete/close/move it.  It's pretty useless now.

[jerryjanis]

I still would like to hear if anyone has any suggestions for this sort of thing.  It seems to me remapping the analog controls (TB or spinner depending on if you need just one axis or two) to a calibrated point would imitate a hall-effect or analog stick.

The quick answer:

A typical pc analog will work fine.

Longer answer:

Mapping a trackball or a spinner to act like an analog joystick is a lot like trying to use an analog joystick as a replacement for a mouse.  Is it possible?  Yes.  Is it good enough for guys who build their own arcade controls?  NO WAY DUDE!

Example:
A 270 Degree steering wheel like in Outrun runs on the same guts as a single axis of an analog arcade joystick.  A 360 Degree steering wheel like in Super Sprint runs on the same guts as a single axis of a mouse.  They are two very different things because the 270 degree wheel has  limited travel, whereas a 360 degree wheel is just a big spinner that can keep on spin forever in either direction.  I think you have to just experiment with the two to see the difference.

In the case of the Road Runner game, would it be possible to remap one axis for the spinner to the up/down movement of Mr. Beep Beep himself and using a stick for speed movement?  Or is this something I would have to hack directly into MAME myself?

I could be wrong, but I think that Mame already tries to do this as best it can.  However, it doesn't work very well for the reasons I mentioned above - analog joysticks/spinners are too dissimilar.

Personally, I don't know if there is any difference in the way an analog joystick and a hall effect joystick function.  I have no problem playing the Hall Effect joystick games using a PC analog joystick.

There are 2 styles of PC joysticks: analog and digital.  A digital joystick is not likely to work very well, if at all.

The bottom line if you ask me is, go buy an analog joystick for your PC and try that and forget the crazy mouse idea.  You can spend $5 and get one that works just fine (if you're willing to shop around).  Or, you can spend $194.90 and get the one from Happ controls:

http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/item_search.html?item-no=95-0390-00

[Lilwolf]

Btw, your tone on the replies of doing a search was very rash.  Much more then is usual here.

There was a topic on halls effect joysticks recently with DC.  But it was talking about hacking a real arcade version into it... and how they work... if you read the thread, it might have helped a little...

But you probably don't care about how the analog controller is hacked... but more of...  I believe that road runner used a rubber spider under the controller (like sinistar)... This changes the feel of the joystick... making it very hard to hit the extremes...

Xiaou2 (I think... am I wrong) hacked a PC analog controller and then used bike tires to simulate the rubber spider... It's the best bet I've seen...


And, btw, I don't believe anyone has a good halls effect -> pc hack yet.  Mainly because they don't have the same resistence range of any controller out there... And the sensers aren't known enought around here to find replacements that could be used.

[u_rebelscum]

 A dreamcast controller does not use Hall Effect.  Its just a typical mini-pot.  

Depends on the controller.  Some used POTs, others used hall effect.  They are basically electronicaly interchangable for volt varying circuits.

The reason they used this instead of a typical analog is probably because there is less friction (no pot linkages),  smaller size, and reliability (pots burn out faster).   And because there isnt the added linkage friction - gives better feel and overall accuracy.

  A typical pc analog will work fine.

Agree while all of the above.  

Mame looks for a PC analog stick anyway.  The only difference, between POT vs hall effect, a player cares about is the feeling of the stick.  (a BYO also cares about how to wire them up.)

 Modification to the return spring will yeild a better feel and control - as seen on my custom sini-stick design:

 www.xiaou2.homestead.com/arcade.html

... but that's for sinistar and games with the same controller.  

Some of the other hall effect joysticks felt almost like a PC analog stick. [shrug]