Dead PSone battery pack rebuilt & working now + finishing pics to come soon

[northerngames]

  I just picked up one of these and was told it works but it dont hold a charge and was wondering if anyone else has one of these and know what size batterys are in these.

 It is not even here yet but I wanted to ask to see if anyone else had one so I can order the correct battery's to get a head start before it even gets here is all.

 I would like to get new one's and swap them out with something new that is name brand so it will perform better then it was when it was new and stock.

 I am just wanting to know if they are the same as the RC 7.2V battery's like 2 rows of 3 seperate battery's etc. any info would be aprretiated thanks.

 Also if I were to double up on the amount of batteries overall the charge would last longer correct?

[Nipedley]

No idea what batteries are in there, but I wouldn't go putting more batteries in there though, remember things work off voltages. 4 1.5v batteries = 6v. I see no problem with putting higher capacity ones in there if it has them though.

Of course being a battery pack for such a high powered device, it's possible it's some sort of proprietary lithium battery like notebooks use. In which case I have no idea where you could get a replacement though I'm sure someone probably sells them

[northerngames]

thanks for the info I kinda figured just adding more battery's straight up would not be good.

what if I were to add more battery's but also put a resistor on the power lead to limit it to run the correct voltage?

would that improve the lengh of the overall charge still?

[Ed_McCarron]

thanks for the info I kinda figured just adding more battery's straight up would not be good.

what if I were to add more battery's but also put a resistor on the power lead to limit it to run the correct voltage?

would that improve the lengh of the overall charge still?

No.

Using a resistor in series with the batteries would lower the voltage, but its dependent on current draw, which, for that device, is probably not consistent.

I'd assume, based on age, that that pack contains NiMH cells.  If you have 1100mah cells in there, you could replace them with 2200mah cells to double the battery life without changing the voltage.  Don't add cells.  Each cell in series is another 1.2 volts and it won't take many to damage the equipment.

You may need to change the charger, not sure how its set up.  Since you reference RC car batteries, perhaps you have a multicell charger like an Astroflight you could use to charge the new pack?

[Ed_McCarron]

Techincally, you could install cells in a series-parallel configuration that would double the ampacity while keeping the same voltage, but those types of cells don't behave well in parallel, typically.  I'd go with higher capacity cells.

I get my cells here:  http://www.battlepack.com/loosecells.asp

[ChadTower]

is probably not consistent.

It might be... most of the draw is probably coming from the screen with a mostly steady draw going to the motherboard.  The only probably intermittent draw I see in there is the CD drive.

[northerngames]

Not sure if this would matter but the power goes through the LCD first and then to the console.

the lcd has a male plug that goes in the same spot the regular ac power cord goes into the console with so it takes it spot.

then with the lcd attached you connect the AC to the back of the lcd instead and it works like a pass through type connection.

Ed_McCarron is the link you sent based out of the USA or would they need to be imported?

I ask becuase dealextreme has all kinds of batteries with good pricing but there not from the USA and I would preffer to get them in the states to save on the time but if it will save me a decent amount of money I may wait..

http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.400

[Ed_McCarron]

That company is in the US.  North Carolina, I think.  They specialize in batteries for odd applications (robotics, in this case) and can usually come up with something.

Heres how I'd start.  Open up the case of the pack and see whats in there to start with.  Once you have that info, the folks here can at least point you in a direction.

[Ed_McCarron]

is probably not consistent.

It might be... most of the draw is probably coming from the screen with a mostly steady draw going to the motherboard.  The only probably intermittent draw I see in there is the CD drive.

Yes.  The CD is the reason I assumed intermittent.  The spin up draw on the drive would probably be close to half an amp higher than idling, and even more than spun down.

[northerngames]

  Yeah I might as well wait to see what is in there I was hoping to get lucky and find another that also had the same one and been down this road already.

  Radio shack had a RC battery pack 3300-mah Ni-Mh for $24.99 but I will need to know what is in there before I buy anything for it.

  I guess there is 2 models that I have found that look like the one I have one was made by interact and another by hip-gear.

  This one supposedly has no markings or stickers and am leaning toward it being the hip-gear becuase the interact one's have a large sticker on the bottom of the battery case.

   I also had seen it stated 3800-mah on the bottom but for some reason I highly doubt it being that strong truly from a smaller 3rd party company.

[Ed_McCarron]

If its 3800mah, its either LiIon or at least sub-c cells.  I expected AA cells; that case doesn't look thick enough for sub-c's.

[Nipedley]

It could also be chinese where they just stick 3800mah on everything. I have a "3800mah" psp battery and 2 of them for the wii. Funny how that psp battery only ever lasted an hour at best

As said once you find out what type voltage and capacity batteries are in there the rest should be pretty easy.

[northerngames]

  I was hoping for the C's but was thinking the same, The case just does not look thick enough also it may be just me but the interact version appears to be a little thicker were C's should fit.

  If the one on the way is AA and the other is C I may go for that one instead but guess I will have to wait to see what this thing has in it.

  Yeah some of them off brand or no name battery's rating can be pretty far fetched sometime's.

  I am even leary of the raio shack brand and checked around to see what are a good RC battery by the hobbiest and it looks to be the DuraTrax brand in the #1 spot and then wolfpack as the followup there just as good but not as popular according to some of the their post.

 I was hoping for C's becuase that is what most of the high mah rated RC battery's are.

[Ed_McCarron]

Sub-c's have just as high of a mah rating as the c's, typically.  Most RC packs are sub-c.

Be careful with rechargable batts, BTW.  The sub-c packs I make will source 80-90A for a few seconds.

[northerngames]

Sub-c's have just as high of a mah rating as the c's, typically.  Most RC packs are sub-c.

Be careful with rechargable batts, BTW.  The sub-c packs I make will source 80-90A for a few seconds.

the sub-C packs you make source 80-90A for a few seconds... and what exactly does that mean?

 I am just getting into this battery lingo and dont know all the do's and dont's just pretty much the basic's like there voltage output mah rating just the basic stuff really.

 I also know the system and screen are 7.2V @ 3A but I don't know what the maximum amperage it could take before causing a problem.

I am 

[Ed_McCarron]

If you short them, they'll put out 80 or 90 amps.  I've damn near vaporized the wiring doing it.

"I also know the system and screen are 7.2V @ 3A but I don't know what the maximum amperage it could take before causing a problem."

Think of volts as the pressure of water coming out of your faucet, and amps as the volume of water coming out.

Your kitchen faucet is a small battery pack.  12v, a few amps.
The fire hydrant on the corner?   Car battery.  Still 12v, hundreds of amps.

Amps won't hurt electronics, over voltage will.  A device will only consume a set current, or amount of amps.  IE, you can power a 12v flashlight off of your car battery without it blowing up.

[northerngames]

yeah thats what I had figured and I also know not enough amps is not good either but I was not sure what you had ment when you said:

The sub-c packs I make will source 80-90A for a few seconds.

 I was not sure what that amperage amount had to do with the console if it were 3A's or 100A's

now I am not sure what you mean by it shorting out do you mean by not linking the battery's together correctly or do you mean the postive lead toaching something metal it should not be?

or did you mean that my wiring and connectors need to be beefy and a thicker guage just in case

[Ed_McCarron]

now I am not sure what you mean by it shorting out do you mean by not linking the battery's together correctly or do you mean the postive lead toaching something metal it should not be?

I meant that you didn't sound incredibly familiar with this type of cell, and that accidentally miswiring could cause a melted wire, burnt fingers, a fire, or worse.

Just a friendly note to be careful.

You could up the wire size, but the wire and/or pcb traces inside the device will still be thinner than the rest.  Know what we call those?  Fuses.

[northerngames]

  I have been soldering/desoldering and doing greenboard repair & upgrades for 12+ years now and into making custom game consoles and controllers for stuff like in this link.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=94892.0

some things I work under a magnifier becuase there so small.

  I am just not a big battery buff is all as I never really worked on anything that takes battery's for power as most of the stuff I am used to gets power from the wall sockets and why I needed to ask some questions before jumping into this project.

 

[northerngames]

I am going to need some more advice on this

got the unit in today



tried to pry out the screw caps/plugs with a razor & pic no go so a 1/8" drill bit grabbed them outta there with ease



unit finally opened



notice the high tech masking tape the manufacture use's instead of electical tape wow lol



I need help with this part as I have never even seen this shape battery before there is no markings but I put a C and a AA to compare the size of them


I was happy when I first opened it as my first thought was they were C's and I found a RC duratrax 5000mah 7.2V with 6 C's that I could have just desoldered the +/- wires off the old pack and cut off the molex on the RC pack and then just soldered the +/- wire together and been golden with a true 5000mah battery.

After I peeled the outer layer off that covers the battery I found out real fast that they were not C's becuase of how long they were.

Now I am stumped as I stated  prior I am just basic when it comes to battery's and I never seen these type batteries and have no clue what they even are.

I know there is AA AAA etc. is this like an A battery or a B battery I seriously have no clue.

also by the looks of them could someone tell me if they are Ni-MH or Ni-Cd, Li-On etc.

also if it could be explained easily what is the different between them?

EDIT: I searched the net for a few hours and am thinking these battery type are called 4/3A's as they are 65-67mm long and 17-18mm diameter.

should I replace them with the same size or just go with 6 energizer AA's rated at 2000mah each?

I can get 4 of them with a charger for $9.99 and there the best batteries I could find for the 360 controllers where most batteried die in a few days these alway's lasted me a few weeks on each charge so I know there good but not sure if there good to make a 6 cell battery pack out of.

I also was wondering if I used the AA's @ 2000mah each does that equal 6000mah total when completed as a battery pack of 6?

[Ed_McCarron]

They do indeed look like 4/3AA cells.

6 of them in series would give you 7.2v at the mah rating of a single cell.  If you series the cells, voltage adds, if you parallel the cells, current adds.

I'm going to go with NiMH.  Could be NiCd, but since the unit is only a few years old, most folks had switched by that point.  Doesn't look like LiIon - no temp sensor or sense leads, and I doubt for that price those are smart cells.

You could indeed replace them with a 6 cell RC pack.  It'd just be tough to fit in the case, and would take longer to charge.  The 6 AA's in series would work too.

I'd avoid consumer batteries; go with tabbed or other cells you can solder to.  Use a large soldering iron, not a pencil to make the connections.  Be quick and the cells won't mind.  The trick is using enough heat to get the job done quickly.

You could try here: http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/battery_build_main.html

Choose the HR3U NiMH cells, flat pack 7.2v, 22ga wire, and no connectors.

Comes out to $34.44 for a pack thats ready to go with 2700ma cells.

Of course, thats assuming the cells are NiMH.  At the low rate that device probably charges, I'd assume its not a problem.  No labeling at all on the cells?

[northerngames]

The only thing on them was a little sticker on one of the solder tabs that connects the batteries.

it say's:

XMZ2

LP200

I tried to google them but did not find them for a battery

[Ed_McCarron]

The XMZ2 part may be a thermal fuse - gets too hot (too much current draw) it opens and protects things.  Was that nomenclature on a cell itself or on a little strip-like thing attached to them?

[northerngames]

It is centered between the 2 battey's and appears to be right on the Solder Tab that connect the two battery's together.

[Ed_McCarron]

Probably the thermal fuse I mentioned, I saw that part # referenced on a different pack.

Try this:  if you have a 6 cell rc pack, temporarily swap it in and see if it takes a charge.  Careful of polarity, and don't plug it into the actual game if you can avoid it.

[northerngames]

I could do it off the battery pack only without the console or screen connected but I dont have anythng to try it with unless I can find an old RC pack somewhere but I think I sold all that a few years back.

[northerngames]

Well I was going to order from the robotics place and order the parts suggested but they wanted $15.00+ to ship the battery pack only 

They should be using the USPS $5.35 Flat Rate box's if anything.

I got lucky and got a steal off ebay but it also was a cheap way out and not sure if it is going to work but for the cost I got them for it was worth the gamble I guess.

 There was a guy that was selling brand new sealed Gamcube mobile power packs for $5.00 buy it now with $5.00 shipping so they were $10.00 shipped a peice.

I had grabbed two one I am going to keep stock for the my gamecube itself as I had bought a used one for like $28.00 2 years ago and sold it but this time I got 2 new for $20.00.

I figured I would take the gamble and order a second unit for the PSone and use the battery pack out of it.

The gamecube runs 12V @ 3.25A I am taking the gamble and hoping that there is 10 1.2V battery's in there and if so I could just cut off the extra 4 and force it down to 7.2V

now my question is would I be able to cut the pack down to 6 and get away with it?

my next question is being that these are just as old and the PSone battery packs do you think the cells are still good considering they have never been charged prior?

I am not sure if they came pre-charged or not but i am hoping they did not.

I figured for $20.00 it was worth the gamble becuase I could not go wrong and even if it did not work like planned I still got a new battery pack for the gamecube for $20.00 worst case   

[northerngames]

turns out he has 3 more left if anyone wants a steal on a gamecube battery pack

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200359680633&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

these are supposedly rated to last an 1-1/2 hrs but that is at 12V for the gamecube were it should last a little longer on the PSone becuase it runs at 7.2V @ 3A so it should go for at least 2 hours on the PSone.

I still need to see what is in them though to make sure there is 10 cells in there so 4 can be removed.

[Nipedley]

I was going to say I'd be wary of the shelf life of the batteries, those gamecube screen's were quite a few years ago now weren't they. Still for such a low price it's worth a go, hope it pans out for you.

[northerngames]

yeah that is my main concern with them is if the batteries are even any good still or not.

my second concern is if there is 10 1.2V batteries in there.

There probably the same age as the psone battery's.

 I am hoping they were never charged so it would not effect them but as I said prior I am not into battery's that much.

 I dont even know if it would matter if they have been charged prior or not when it's the overal age that counts type thing instead.

 But yeah I figured for $20.00 its worth the gamble.

 worst case if they both dont work for either unit I am out $20.00 wich is not that big of a deal.

 If I can get it to work with one or the other then it was worth it and pretty much break even.

 But if it works for both then its a bonus 

[northerngames]

Got the gamecube battery packs in and had to do the same as psone battery pack and drilled the screw caps/plugs out and then unscrewed the unit and opened it.

There pretty mush the same thing parts wise on the inside as the psone but the largest I could go for the psone is 18mm and the gamecube packs were the 10 1.2V I needed so I could have reduced it down to the 7.2V needed for the PSone.

 They were a C or close to a C size and measured out to be 22mm wich was 4mm to large to fit in the PSone case and close properly.

They dont fit and are to big but was worth the try I guess as I can still use the other or both on the gamecube console still.

I guess I am off to find more battery's for now though and will update again later.

[Ed_McCarron]

Keep us informed.

[northerngames]

I got bored today and did some more tinkering and I now have a working unit again.

I ended up using the batteries out of the gamecube battery packs after all.

it was a tight squeeze closing the case but the plastic was thin enough and not cheap enough to shatter or break into piece's.

I am glad it works but now that I know some C's or 22mm's will fit in there I would have rather used one of them 5000mah duratrax batteries mentioned prior.

I am going to give it a full charge and see how long it last as it is but so far I have had it on for an hour and no problems yet.

I also have pics to add of the GC battery taken apart and the reassembly of the new psone setup.

I have to leave for a bit but will add the pics and what not tommorow more then likely but so far everything is up and running good 

[northerngames]

Well I thought I was good to go but after playing it for about two hours it went dead I let it charge over night and went to try it again and they were still dead.

Now I am kinda bumbed becuase I dont think it has anythiong to do with the GC batteries I put in there becuase it worked and I am starting to think there may have not been anything wrong with its original battery's.

 I am now thinking there is something blown on one of its pcb's and the reason the old and new batteries will not charge.

 There pretty small with common components so I guess my next adventure with this thing is to get out the new multimeter I bought and finally put it to use but I just remembered I need a new battery for it too

[northerngames]

 Well turns out it works and recharge's for some reason with this PSone battery when it is switched to off it is really off completely and it does not even allow it to charge.

  I never did see the green light that say's full actually work even when I had charged the gamecube battery to the max and put it in there originally it never came on.

 Yesterday I figured I will leave it with the on switch turned on but leave the console off and see if it charged that way.

 Well I'll be darn a few hours later the green full lite came on I unplugged it and played for a little over a hour and a half.

 It was late when I was playing it and the PSone battery actually out lasted my battery as I coud no longer stay awake and keep up with it and I went to sleep but it made it longer then I could lol.

 I still have to see how long a full charge will actually last before it goes dead but so far it was and hour and a half strong and the low led was not on or flickering so I assume there is still at least another hour in there.

 I Wish I knew what mah these gamecube batteries are becuase now I know I can get them C's in there with a tight fit that 5000mah duratrax is looking really nice right now as that should go at least 3 hours + no problem.

I have more picture to add of how and what I did to the gamecube batterys to get the pack out cut it down and wire it in the psone screen etc.

so soon as I get a little more time I will post it all and also how long a full charge last with the current gamecube battery's in there. 

[Ed_McCarron]

Cool.  Glad to see it working.