Intermittent Problems with Williams Blackout (System 6)

[Neverending Project]

I have done a bit of board-level repair work on my Williams Blackout, but it still has some intermittent problems. Sometimes when I power it on it goes right into audit mode. Sometimes it powers on but with no displays, no attract mode, and no audit mode. And sometimes, it will power on into attract mode. If it powers into audit mode, I can use the flip-off-then-on trick to get it to attract mode and then I can play a game.

But even during a game the entire machine will flicker - lights, scores and all - and eventually the scores will go black and the game will completely die. While it is flickering I hear the coin door solenoid clicking, to the same "flickering" pattern as the lights. It's as if there is a loose connection or something - even though nothing is being moved or wiggled.

Now the first thing I thought of was the 40-pin interconnect between the CPU and driver board. I have replaced both the male and female headers on this interconnect. I have also removed the battery pack (and installed fresh batteries) so I should not be booting into audit mode. I have also replaced the caps on the regulator board, checked the bridge rectifiers in the back box, and done some other recommendations on Clay's site.

Can anyone give me some other things to check?

[ChadTower]

Double check the 40pin for shorts and check for shorts in connectors.  Replace the bridges - even when they pass the diode tests those old bridges can act differently under load.

[Neverending Project]

OK, will do. One thing I forgot to mention - when it doesn't boot (no displays, no attract mode, no audit mode), I checked pin 37 of the interconnect and it was low. I read here that this is the blanking signal and it should no stay low. Does this mean it could have something to do with the reset circuit?

[ChadTower]

It could but I'd check for the shorts first... a short can pull logic lines low and cause resets.  If you did a good job on the interconnect it probably isn't the problem but may as well eliminate that.  Did you repin any plastic connectors?  If you did check those too.  I've introduced a short that way once or twice.

Another thing to check is your main power connectors between the head and the cabinet.  There are four - they are the same housing - and if you get them wrong you can fry your CPU board.  I did that to my Laser Cue and let the smoke out of a bunch of stuff... now that I think about it, it may have booted to audit mode when I did it, too.  Check the wiring colors and not the connector colors.  The connector colors are inconsistent from the factory.

[Neverending Project]

I think your 5101 is flaking on you...

I thought so too, until I replaced it. Unless I did a crappy job of installing the socket pins (which is possible, I will double-check) I can rule that one out.

It seems like it is temperature related. It has a hard time when I first turn on the machine. It first turns on, but the CPU won't boot. After a couple of minutes of futzing around (off and on again), it will boot into attract mode. Today I did this, and just let it sit in attract mode without touching anything. After about 10 minutes, it locked up. Wasn't in the middle of a game or anything. Once it locks up, I can't get it to reboot by powering off or anything.

I want to sell it, and keep thinking if I can fix this issue it will be worth a lot more. But I need to get rid of it, so I may need to sell it as is.

[ChadTower]

That could be the result of a cold/cracked solder joint somewhere... when cold, it doesn't connect, but when it warms up it expands just enough to make an intermittent connection.  Fairly common on the sys6-7 boards because of that stupid 40pin connector.

[Ken Layton]

And you replaced ALL the IC sockets on the CPU board?

[Neverending Project]

And you replaced ALL the IC sockets on the CPU board?

No, just the 5101 chip (added a socket). You think it is worth it to replace all the sockets on the MPU? I read that if they are not the SCANBE (they are not) then they are probably OK. While it is off, I can re-flow all the headers too.

[Neverending Project]

Well opportunity knocked last weekend, so I answered. I listed the pinball on craigslist and sold it to someone for $400. But what gets me is the guy lied to me and turned around and re-listed it the next day. He told me he was interested in fixing it up, and he had a "buddy" who was very knowledgeable about these things. Well, I guess he thinks his "buddy" is knowledgeable about the value of it, cause he is listing is for $750! Non-working, mind you - he didn't do one thing to it.

He states in his ad that he "doesn't have the time and space to fix it," and that he "suspects it has a power supply problem." These are both lies, as he *just* bought it, and I told him it wasn't a power supply problem. At least he stated that it needed repair.

Anyway, I hope whoever buys this knows that many of the commonly problematic things have already been fixed. More importantly, I hope they realize the value of this when repaired will only be in the $750-$850 price range - and it still needs new rubbers, bulbs and some lane guides.

Sheesh. Why do people have to be such shmucks?

[ChadTower]

The sad part is that I really like Blackout.  It's an excellent game.

[shardian]

Post a C.L. ad next to his warning buyers with everything you just said.

[Neverending Project]

Wait, so you mean the guy posted on a hobbyist forum acting like he was gonna fix a game, found out it was more work than he wanted to mess with, and then dumped it on a new buyer (sucker)?

 

Now that I have taken the bait...

I actually did quite a bit to repair it, including rebuilding the 5V and high voltage power supplies, replaced the battery pack, replaced the 5101 RAM, replaced the 40-pin connectors, replaced several connectors and pins, and rebuilt some drop-target switches under the playfield. Oh, and I tested all the transistors and coil resistances.

It's not like I acted like I was gonna fix it and then dumped it when I found out it was more work than I wanted. It was like I needed the cash, the garage space, and the time it would have taken to continue repairing it. It was like I would rather use the cash to get my wife a new cell phone since hers took a dive in a puddle, and also to help buy some plane tickets so my kids could see their grandma this Christmas.

And it's not like I dumped it on a sucker, either. It was more like I explained to the guy everything that I have done to repair it, and what I thought it would need to be repaired. Oh, and since he (claimed) he was new to the hobby, I took the time to explain to him how to remove the PF glass, open the backbox, remove the legs... hell, I even gave him a binder full of info I had printed out from the marvin3m site. He honestly seemed interested.

It's not like I am looking for approval from "the nicest opinionated a-hole you'll ever meet." But that's quite a judgment to make about me considering I was just venting (in my own thread) about a guy who flat-out lied to my face.

[dbax]

I'm the guy that bought your Blackout and if you would have looked closer at the ad on CL, you have noticed that WASN'T your pinball. Yours (now mine) is sitting in my garage and would not even start up once i got it home. I plan on figuring it out and getting it working. Next time, don't be so quick to pass judgment and make assumptions...

[shardian]

Yep, I think Jim about summed it up. 

[Neverending Project]

I'm the guy that bought your Blackout and if you would have looked closer at the ad on CL, you have noticed that WASN'T your pinball. Yours (now mine) is sitting in my garage and would not even start up once i got it home. I plan on figuring it out and getting it working. Next time, don't be so quick to pass judgment and make assumptions...

I did check the ad closely, and it looked pretty damn similar - right up to the barrel lock missing on the coin door and the suggested "power supply problem". And you have to admit that the timing was a pretty good coincidence also.

Sorry, didn't mean to pass judgement so quickly. People have done some pretty nasty stuff on Craigslist before, and it is one of my peeves. I am glad you are fixing it up. I hope you keep me posted on what was the cause - I really do want to know. 

Oh, and sometimes when it wouldn't start for me, I could get it to start after a few minutes of trying the power on and off with the coin door open.

You really need a thicker skin.

Nah, you just caught me on a bad day.

[StephenH]

This info might be useful to you:

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index.htm

[dbax]

Thought I'd update the status of this thread. Had a similar issue to this on craigslist and it prompted me to want to update this thread.  I still have the game (Hah, Hah) and sent the Blackout boards in for repair and should have them back next week. $260 for repairs, but will be working. Lot's of bad parts on the board, as well as the driver board PIA'S.

[Neverending Project]

I'm glad that you will have this working. Where did you send the boards for repair?