different 640x480 resolutions?

[twistedsymphony]

I have a Dance Dance Revolution cab with the PCB replaced with Win XP PC running OpenITG (essentially a DDR emulator). this cab has a 29" Tri-Sync Makvision monitor. Output from the PC is fed through a JPAC mostly just to make the wiring easier since the DDR cabs are JAMMA.

For the longest time this PC had an old nVidia card and it was fine as I just set Win XP to run in 640x480. OpenITG is also set to run full screen at 640x480 resolution.
When I first built this PC the boot sequence was out of range, then once it entered windows it would sync up and gameplay was a-ok, then at some point something happened and the boot sequence AND windows would no longer work but it would be fine once the game launched.

Using an LCD that reports resolution information both windows and OpenITG reported running 31KHz 640x480 60Hz but switching between the two there was a distinct sync change and for whatever reason the arcade monitor refused to sync during boot and while in windows. This was annoying as it meant anytime I needed to change settings or config files I'd have to hook up an LCD, also the boot processes takes a good 3+ minutes on this machine so I would often have to turn on the PC first then wait a few minutes before turning on the cab so I don't put undue stress on the monitor sending it an out of sync signal for so long.

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Deciding to fix this I bought an Ati HD4350 and installed Atom15 and CRT_EmuDriver... unfortunately now when running OpenITG it uses the "incompatible" 640x480 resolution. there doesn't appear to be a sync change between the boot sequence, windows lauch, and OpenITG launch. the output resolution is still reporting as 31KHz 640x480 60Hz but it wont sync with the arcade CRT at all anymore.

Anyone have any suggestions? is there a guide on manually adding/removing modlines? Every guide I find just talks about using VMM to generate modlines from MAME but really all I want is 1 640x480P resolution that is compatible with my Makvision CRT.

[buttersoft]

When you install CRT emudriver, it's not supposed to mess with your installed video modes.

I'd open ArcadeOSD first, and check out the modes already on the system that ArcadeOSD shows. If everything looks right, check the sync polarities against what the makvision expects. If they're wrong, or as a last resort, you could try altering them one at a time. Remember you can hit esc to go back, if you don't get a picture.

If you can't see a mode that looks right, it's possible your LCD is doubling 15kHz, and the makvision is a manual tri-res that you have to set via a slider or jumper? Or is it automatic sync?

You could always use VMM with the right presets and modify an .ini file so all it contains is a single 31kHz 640x480p mode. But it should already be there.

EDIT: How is the sync reaching the makvision? If it's being combined somewhere, different cards output slightly different levels, and different monitors like different combinations. The differences are normally very slight though, and it's unlikely to be this.

[haynor666]

In similiar fashion works Taito Type X games. Depending on game picks up first resolution with 640x480@60 no matter if it's interlaced or progressive or picks up desktop resolution so maybe that's a problem. Build in system modes You can't remove. 640x480p, 1280x720p will stay but through custom modification You could get rid of 640x480@60i.

[twistedsymphony]

If you can't see a mode that looks right, it's possible your LCD is doubling 15kHz,

I know for a fact that the LCD will not accecpt 15kHz signals, I use this to test out NAOMI and other arcade hardware and when in 15kHz (480i) mode it gives a signal out of range message. I've run through ArcadeOSD on this monitor before (on a different PC) and it just gives and out of range message for anything below 31K.

and the makvision is a manual tri-res that you have to set via a slider or jumper? Or is it automatic sync?

The Makvision is automatic sync, I was running original Namco System 573 hardware before this PC and the game runs in 240P (during gameplay) and 480i modes (during song selection), not to mention I had this same PC hooked up to the makevision outputting 480p before I swapped out the nVidia card for an Ati.

this monitor model also has a problem with interlaced signals appearing extremely jittery, which was a big reason for me ditching the original hardware for a PC in the first place. so if it were outputting 480i, I'd know it. Also this wouldn't explain why I was getting a 480p to 480p sync change back on the nVidia card when no 15K modes were even available.

How is the sync reaching the makvision? If it's being combined somewhere, different cards output slightly different levels, and different monitors like different combinations. The differences are normally very slight though, and it's unlikely to be this.

As I stated in the first post the video is being feed though a JPAC.

basically I have a VGA cable from the card to the JPAC and then the JPAC plugs into the JAMMA harness in the cab. the JPAC amplifies the video signals to JAMMA levels, automatically inverts sync polarity if necessary and combines the syncs. and also has a sync protection to cut the video if the sync signal is out of range.
if you're unfamiliar you can find more information here: https://www.ultimarc.com/jpac.html

I use JPACs in a number of machines, it was working perfectly before I changed video cards, and I even swapped JPACs with another one of my machines to confirm that it's still working properly. The Monitor as a VGA cable to plug in directly to the PC, and using that makes no difference.

I'll try running through ArcadeOSD resolutions and see what happens.

[Calamity]

If you've flashed your 4350 with ATOM-15 using the 31 kHz preset, then you should be seeing the boot sequence.

the output resolution is still reporting as 31KHz 640x480 60Hz but it wont sync with the arcade CRT at all anymore.

Where is it reporting "31KHz 640x480 60Hz"? An OSD?

If your card is really outputting that signal, you must see a proper picture on your monitor, period.

If it's not syncing and you can discard a sync polarity issue thanks to JPAC, then it could be something silly as having either the v-freq or h-freq pots slightly off.

[twistedsymphony]

OK so I've figured out exactly whats happening, and it's completely different than what I thought was happening but I don't really know how to fix it.

if I power the PC on with my LCD monitor plugged in then it will boot fine, no problem and output 480p during post, in windows and in game.

if I power the PC on without a monitor plugged in then it will refuse to output any video signal at all, even after plugging in the monitor.

the problem is that neither the Makvision CRT nor the JPAC seem to register as a monitor when powering on the PC.

the only way to make it work is if I boot with an LCD plugged into the PC then unplug it and plug in the JPAC/CRT.

I'm not really sure why this behavior is happening or what to do to fix it. Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Calamity]

Typical monitor detection issue of pre-HD 5000 cards.

Use the DVI connector instead, by means of a DVI-VGA adapter, or...

Use CRT Emudriver 2.0, or ...

Add 75 ohm resistors between to the RGB lines and ground.

[twistedsymphony]

Thanks! 

I'm already using a DVI to VGA adapter so I'll try CRT_EmuDriver 2.0

[twistedsymphony]

So I'm still stuck on this

Use the DVI connector instead, by means of a DVI-VGA adapter, or...

I was already doing that before I created this thread, so that doesn't help...

Use CRT Emudriver 2.0, or ...

I'm running Windows XP 32bit and it looks like CRT Emudrive 2.0 is for Win 7 and newer. Also this problem exists as soon as I power on the PC, and doesn't the drive not take effect until windows boots? so wouldn't that mean the problem is related to Atom 15 as opposed to the windows driver?

Add 75 ohm resistors between to the RGB lines and ground.

the JPAC already terminates these lines with 225ohm resistors, placing 75 ohm resistors here causes the JPAC video output to not function properly.

So I'm not entirely sure where to go from here.

Nevermind, In my test I had a bridge between two resistors that I didn't notice before... this indeed works.

[haynor666]

CRT tools 2.0 beta 8 works nice under XP x32 and XP x64. I tested those but driver bungled together does not. You have to use older driver 9.3 on XP x32 and XP x64 or even older 6.5 (untested by me). For Windows 7 x64 You have to use 12.6.