Electrocoin Goliath cab MAME conversion: control panel advice please!!

[Diewrecked]

Hi all,

I hope you can help with this.

So .. I've got an Electrocoin Goliath cab (from eBay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380014093201 if you're interested) which I bought with the intention of converting to MAME. I've got everything sorted out on the technical side pretty much, all I'm really concerned about is the aesthetic/ergonomic side of the control panel. Basically I've got the following controllers:

2xMagstick Plus (one per player)
16xstandard buttons with Cherry microswitches (six per player plus P1, P2 and two buttons for the cab sides for pinball)
1xHapp 3" trackball
2xGGG TurboTwist 2, one with a MAME designer knob and one with a 7" steering wheel

Can anyone recommend how to run all of these simultaneously on one CP, considering hidden footprints etc, without it looking too busy and without it being too cramped? I was thinking of putting the steering wheel in the middle, directly below the trackball, at the 45-degree angle between the top and the front, but only putting it on when I need it to play Pole Position so it's not in the way of the trackball. What do you think? Or is there a more elegant solution? I am happy to sacrifice one or two buttons per player if it will make the panel more usable and/or less cramped.

Given that the panel is bespoke to the cab I've only got one shot at getting this right and I know from the posters in this forum that you are far more experienced in this than I am!!

Many thanks in advance you guys.
Cheers
Jon

[Franco B]

Hi Jon,

I think you may struggle a little due to the small size of the original CP. The closest thing I could suggest to fit your needs would be to make a CP similar to Jimbo's [>Thread<].

He has his spinners set at an angle at the front of his CP which keeps them out of the way of the other controls but they can still be used and they are also in a perfect position to attach the mini racer wheels for driving games.

I think you may struggle to get two joys/buttons and a trackball on the CP top alone whilst still being comfortable to use. If you didnt use a trackball mounting plate you would gain a bit of space. Have you thought about using Ultimarcs U-Trac trackball? [>Product Link<]. They are designed to be used in a wooden CP and I guess yours is metal but I think with all of the controls you are trying to fit in I would be tempted to make a new wooden CP for it. At least that way you can have as many goes at at as you like. 

If I was you I would make a cardboard mock CP and have a play with controller positioning. I realise you don't have your controls to fix to the cardboard but you could at least draw them on (full scale) to get an idea about how things will fit.

(By the way, I love the posistioning of the buttons on the original panel, truly awesome  )

[Diewrecked]

Thanks for your reply Franco.

The CP is actually 2mm steel so the trackball doesn't need a mounting plate. If I put it hard against the current position of the right hand joystick I have enough space for the six P1 buttons but I'm at a loss as to where to put the spinners comfortably. That's why I was talking about maybe binning a button or two in favour of the wheel but if I can get away with putting it at 45 degrees by the trackball then obviously that would be favourite

I actually have all the kit (well, except for the spinners and wheel which I ordered yesterday so will take a couple of weeks to arrive) so I might well do the cardboard mockup idea.

Thanks again .. anyone else have any input to this at all? I saw loads of different panels in the main database thread but almost none with steering wheels, hence the question.

Cheers
Jon

[TOK]

Thats a lot of stuff. Seems like you might be ahead to make a new panel that overlaps the outside edges.

You can go a few inches on each side without it looking goofy. My buddy did this and cut the outside edges of where the control panel mounts into a square that gave him a solid mount. I've seen other people make the panel with slots in the back so it slides over the existing sides without cutting them. This preserves the cab, but doesn't free up as much room.

[Diewrecked]

Thanks TOK. I was considering that but the problem there is that the cab has to fit next to the chimney stack in my dining room and if I do that it'll be too big. I was also considering building one that came out a bit more but it just wouldn't look right. The cab, panel and monitor are all 80's original and I'd like to keep them if I can. That's why I'm so worried about taking an 82mm hole saw to it!!

[Diewrecked]

Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread but I am finally in a position to dedicate some proper time to this project after being on the backburner for 18 months (one-year-olds are very hard work eh? ) And apologies for such a lengthy post!

[snip]
If I was you I would make a cardboard mock CP and have a play with controller positioning. I realise you don't have your controls to fix to the cardboard but you could at least draw them on (full scale) to get an idea about how things will fit.

Guys I just wanted to pass comment on this quickly. I know it's been said a thousand times but I have to admit I was sceptical about needing to do it (read "lazy"!!) given I "knew" in my head where things were going to go. However, having made a few now, I have come across snags I would never have foreseen in a million years had I not done so (like accommodating the 4mm underneath the trackball housing for the fixing nut say, or pushing the left joystick so far to the left your hand bashes the side of the cab!!) so I just wanted to say many, many thanks for this absolutely priceless piece of advice.

[snip]... but I'm at a loss as to where to put the spinners comfortably. [snip]

This is where I'm up to now.

I've attached a couple of pictures of my cardboard mockup. The panel is very small - the top is 60x20cm - so space is at a premium, although the mockup I have is surprisingly comfortable to use I know the buttons aren't straight, they will of course be dead straight when I come to drilling.

Now, I have two spinners, one with the MAME weighted top and one which will be used with a Mini Racer for driving games. My current mockup has the Mini Racer spinner in the middle of the vertical fascia of the panel (see my separate, equally aged, thread on that actually working very successfully in practice) - the wheel will only be in place when being used so it's not in the way when it isn't. My conundrum is where to position the one that will be actually used as a spinner (ie Tempest, Arkanoid et al). I originally wanted it as close to the centre of the panel as possible, naturally.

• If I position it underneath the rightmost button of the Player 1 set (on the left), you hit it when using the joystick with your left hand and the buttons with your right
• If I position it underneath between the Player 1 joystick and the leftmost button of the Player 1 set it is out of the way when you use the joystick and buttons but is awkward for right handed players to reach
• If I position it hard left to the trackball housing it is in the way when using the trackball
• If I position it hard right to the trackball housing it is in the way when using either the trackball or the Player 2 joystick
• If I position it underneath between the Player 2 joystick and the leftmost button of the Player 2 set it is out of the way when you use the joystick and buttons but is awkward for left handed players to reach, although not as bad as for right handed players between the Player 1 joystick and buttons. This is my most favoured position so far.
  
• If I position it to the very left or right it's simply unusable

The alternative is to mount it vertically, same as the one for the Mini Racer. Is anyone using a spinner mounted vertically? How do they feel? Are they comfortable/natural to use in this position? If so this potentially opens up a whole extra dimension for me insofar as I could mount both spinner spindles centre to each player (ie in the middle of the left and of the right) on the vertical fascia, buy a second spinner knob and Mini Racer and interchange them as necessary - two player spinner games and two player driving games. Nice - but, if a vertical spinner isn't very usable, unworkable.

I have just tried my MAME knob on the spindle mounted vertically and I must say initial impression is that it's perfectly acceptable. Where on a horizontally mounted spinner your thumb is naturally at the bottom and your first finger on the top, I found it very comfortable to use the vertical spinner when you flip your hand over, ie, your thumb on top and your first finger underneath - if you don't do this i found my forearm started to ache very quickly - but I've not done any significant long-term testing with this position. Would it be more comfortable long-term horizontally where you can surround it with all your fingers rather than just using two? Would flipping your hand over affect how you play the games?

Many thanks in advance for your advice here guys.

Cheers