The Corner Arcade (Planet Arcade)

[yo1dog]

Welcome to the brand new revision of The Corner Arcade now know as Planet Arcade.

February 24, 2010
Started the Planet Arcade Mini Project


Original Post:
Hey guys, looking for some advice, opinions, and comments. I have built a semi-basic cabinet before and now I am ready to step it up.

To begin, between me and my Dad we both feel that we have the woodworking skills to accomplish this. My Dad especially has been doing this kinda thing for years and years and is very skilled.

I haven't seen anything like this before so I feel cool, however, if someone knows of any similar projects that would be great so I can look at theirs.

The objective was to have a full four player cabinet without taking up a huge amount of wall space. I also decided to have two monitors. This will enable a feature I am very excited about. The ability to play two separate 2 player games at the same time (one on each screen) or to play a single 4 player game (projecting the game on both screens).  I can also code very well so writing software for switching modes wont be a problem. In fact, I am almost done with it. A potential problem I can think of is the ability of my graphics card to be able to play two games at once. I assume that it wont be a problem if the games are running at or close to their native resolutions. Even with my GeForce 8800 GT 512MB I get momentary lag on Metal Slug... then again it is running at 1680x1050 with multiple apps such as Photoshop and 3Ds Max running in the background... I really don't know.

I also had another idea. I have a 7" TouchScreen LCD that I was going to put in my car but never did. My idea was to have the list of games on the touchscreen as well as the ability to switch the 2 and 4 player modes. Players could them simply touch the game they wanted on the list. This would also allow me to use my computer without pulling out a mouse and keyboard. Of course I would use a password lock so players could not exit my MAME system and mess with Windows.

Still working on the artwork... I'm no artists . If anyone would like to submit something I would love to see it. I will provide blueprints and such below.

A few questions:

• I am looking for a good lightgun. I have an Act-Labs that I bought years ago but that requires a CRT monitor. Both the TopGun and Capcon guns look good to me. Suggestions?
• Where can I get a 22" 4:3 Ratio LCD? Perhaps these don't exist..
• How important is it to have stereo sound instead of mono?

Updates:
February 15, 2010
I got a great idea that I am excited to start working on soon. See my thread about an AimTrack in a "Real" Gun.


February 7, 2010
I have been working on making the cabinet mobile. The simplest solution seemed to be to make the cabinet be able to break down into pieces. I made an animation showing how this will work. An Updated Sketchup model has been uploaded as well.



January 21, 2010
Changed from The Corner Arcade to Planet Arcade.

January 18, 2010
Trying out a new control panel design:
Removed

And a new marquee:
Removed

January 13, 2010
Almost done with my MAME Collection Manager and Front End programs. Created a video demo.

I am trying out some new designs for the control panel. Here is a more colorful one; I don't know if I like it very much:
Removed

January 04, 2010
Finished the visual part of the Front End program. As I keep saying, I am no artist. I am going to provide the PSD file if anyone wants to tweak it.

December 31, 2009
I just finished increasing the radius of the cabinet by 5". This allows me to have up to 24" 4:3 LCDs... if I could find one. So for now they are 20". I have also redesigned the control panel as to have the trackball centered and to give players 1 and 4 more space between them and the wall. The touchscreen was also added in. Artwork was tweaked a little... still not the best.

You may also notice the position of the coin slots. I thought this was a cool idea to have it on the control panel where it can be easily accessed. Basically, I will take the top coin slot and reject button off of the mounting plate and attach it to the control panel. Then I will cut a slit into the control panel and put in a track for the coin to roll into the mech which is located underneath the control panel. Here is a picture:


I also plan on replacing the reject button with one of these cool push buttons which will be lit when the player can press it to add a credit.

I got a few ideas for paying to play:
Arcade Mode
When the player puts in quarters, MAME keeps track of the number of credits the player inserted. Then, while playing a game, the player presses the credit button to use their credits on the specific game. This will allow players to insert quarters when they are not in a game or if they decide to switch games they wont loose any unused credits.

Timed Mode
Each credit gives the player a certain amount of time with unlimited credits to play with. The player uses the credits by pushing the credit button.

Unlimited Mode
The player pays an initial number of credits and then has an unlimited number of credits and unlimited time to play. The obvious problem with this one is the ability for players to hand over their unlimited time to someone else when they are done. I figured that I could add a "End Session" option and also use an idle timer that will automatically end the session after so long of being idle.

Free Mode
Everything is free... obviously.

These cold also have multipliers applied. For example, in arcade mode I could make it so every quarter gives the player 2 credits instead of one. I am not at all concerned with making money. Just some ideas.

And here are some images and some SKetchUp, Layout, and PDF files.
3Ds Renders:


Control Panel:


Marquee:


Sketch Up:


Front End Program:
Link

Files:
Cabinet SketchUp
Control Panel Layout
Control Panel PDF
Bezel Layout
Bezel PDF
Marquee Layout
Marquee PDF

What do you guys think? Pretty cool, huh? All constructive advice and comments are more than welcome.


Well now some bad news; The actual construction of this project will be delayed till this summer. This is due to my current lack of funds (Had to buy textbooks). The school also moved me to a new dorm room which is smaller. I will be moving into a house next semester so I should have room then.

But, this could also be good news. I have plenty of time to work out the details and save some cash. After months of working on this thing it should be just about perfect.

Bear with me guys.

Thanks,
 - Mike

[wilno45]

I've not seen this before!

Love it. Great Sketchup model btw.

[yo1dog]

Thanks, put quite a few hours into that baby.

You've probably noticed that everything is nicely grouped so that you can hide parts of the model to see other parts better.

[Knave Jack]

I love it!!! It also gives me some interesting ideas for some of my projects. Keep us informed as the project goes on.

[thatpurplestuff]

Very interested to see how you end up getting the two monitors to switch back and forth between 4 player simultaneous and 2 player with separate games.  That sounds freakin awesome!

[Nacimroc]

Genuinely great idea! Space saving/game modes/shape! All great! Can't wait too see this finished!

[Gamester]

Very ambitious project (and very cool)...  I'll be watching closely to see how you pull all this off.

One thing on the trackballs...  generally having the trackball off-center in relation to the screen is not a good thing.  You may want to re-consider that design decision.  At the very least, if you can, try doing some play testing with the trackball like that.

As far as the name.... well to me the obvious one would be "The Corner Arcade" which obviously can have two meanings.

Good luck!

[DaOld Man]

I dont think I have seen this idea before, and I like it.
Good luck and keep us informed!

[emphatic]

This is a fun project indeed. 

[slasherman]

Maybe you should consider one vertical and one horizontal monitor...

[Gamester]

Okay, I've been staring at this thing for a while, and more questions are popping into my head:

1) How tall is this thing?  The top seems sorta disproportionately tall.  Is there a technical reason for all the extra mass/height up there?  I see a big open cavity up there, and I'm wondering if it has a purpose I'm not seeing?

2) What size monitors did you plan this around?  Those look like 4:3 monitors, which are probably max of 21".  That seems like a big structure to have such tiny monitors, IMHO.  I realize you're bound by the two-screen design to a big degree as far as how wide of a monitor you can put there, but just an observation.

3) I assume, by the design of the top, and the vertical supports every few inches, that you don't plan to have a back-lighted marquee?

[drventure]

It does seem a tad tall, too much area above the monitors, but other than that, very cool idea 

I love the CP layout, and dual screens. Lots of possibilities with something like this (and you don't have to worry with side art 

Definitely post build pics!

[wp34]

Wow just when you think you have seen it all.  This is really cool and original.  I am real anxious to see how this turns out.

Maybe you should consider one vertical and one horizontal monitor...

I agree.  Sorta kills the 4p idea but man what a need idea for both vertical and horizontal in one cabinet.

[RabidRabit]

Sick design, dude.  I thought about a corner arcade but I didn't think to put two monitors in it, great idea.

I assumed when looking at the design that it is meant to span from the floor to ceiling which is why it looks abnormally tall.  I imagine the intent is to make it look as if it is built into the corner.  Amirite?

[Ragtag83]

• I am looking for a good lightgun. I have an Act-Labs that I bought years ago but that requires a CRT monitor. Both the TopGun and Capcon guns look good to me. Suggestions?
  
  

AimTrak AimTrak AimTrak. I love it.

[saurian333]

Hot damn, that is one wicked design.  Bookmarked.

Re: the graphics question -- I haven't been doing much with modern games on Mame lately (only just got back into it after a couple years), but I would think an 8800 or better could handle two average games at once.  What CPU do you plan to use?  I would think you'll need a quad-core or at least a strong dual-core.

I would like to second the question about the marquee; do you plan to use a non-lighted one?  Maybe the question should be: is the blue area at the top for the marquee, or the split section below it?  I think a split marquee would be interesting too.  Regardless, I must say that if I were doing an upright, I would definitely want a lighted marquee.  It adds so much to the overall effect.

Anyway, excellent job in the design phase.  I'll be following this for sure.  If you are going to write software for handling video modes and such, will you be blogging/posting that process somewhere?  I'd be very interested in following that part of your project as well.

[Xiaou2]

heh, Nintendo did something similar actually:

http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1

[saurian333]

heh, Nintendo did something similar actually:

http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1

Cool, never seen that before!

[painterinfo]

Awsome, you could do a doctor who theme on it. Many hours of construction fun there.

[yo1dog]

Wow, thanks for all the support!

I will defiantly keep you guys updated... Only problem is that I have to go back to school in 3-4 weeks so after that progress will be slowed because I will only be able to work on weekends.

I do plan on having a marquee. I just haven't done the art for it yet. The transparent, light-blue is where it will go. And yes, it will be back-lit. If you hide the top of the SketchUp model you can see the florescent light in there. I wish I was good enough with 3Ds Max to make it look actually lit. Will mess around with that.

As far as the small screens; It is the 15 degree angle of the screens that make the max size so small. The ones that I have in there now are a measly 17". This is the major downfall of this idea. You can see the problem by looking at the bezel:


I will post up my source and program as soon as I get closer to the finished product.

Yes, the cabinet is quite tall at 6' 4" (~2 m). This allows the marquee at top to stick out much farther without it being right in the players face (assuming the player isn't very tall... me being only 5' 8" it should be fine).


EDIT:
Anyone know of any games that have simultaneous 2 player and require a trackball or spinner (like a co-op Centipede or something)? I ask because I am wondering if I should include functionality to be able to play 2 player on two screens (same game on both screens) so that both players can use a trackball or spinner... I might include this anyway just so players have the option of being more spread out. Basically, even if the game is two player, the player can still set it so that it projects on both screens. This way Player 1 will use the red controls and Player 2 will use the green controls and will be spread out more so they wont be bumping elbows.

[Gamester]

I do plan on having a marquee. I just haven't done the art for it yet. The transparent, light-blue is where it will go. And yes, it will be back-lit.

Two comments on this.  First, that's a pretty dark marquee.  Not sure how well that's going to light up.  You might consider either brightening up the lettering a bit, or at least add some glow to them to help them pop a little more.

Also, those vertical supports you have every few inches in the marquee area are going to cast shadows all across your marquee.  Not sure if you thought about that, but figured I'd mention it.  Hmm... maybe you could use strips of clear acrylic glued in there instead of wood....

As far as the small screens; It is the 15 degree angle of the screens that make the max size so small. The ones that I have in there now are a measly 17". This is the major downfall of this idea.

Oh my!  17" is TINY, especially for such a large cab.  For me that would be a major deal breaker.  The display can make or break the experience.  I can't even imagine playing on anything less than a 21".  With the 4:3 orientation, and considering the distance from the players, I would think the experience, especially with vertical games, would be pretty disappointing.  And light gun games??  Forget it...

IMHO, unless you can change the design to allow larger displays, I would have to consider scrapping the dual display idea and just go for one LARGE display, while still keeping the corner design.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and ultimately this is all my (educated) opinion.  I give you huge kudos for thinking out of the box (no pun intended).  But, in the end, all the ingenuity is for naught if it requires such big compromises in the quality of gameplay.   

[yo1dog]

I do plan on having a marquee. I just haven't done the art for it yet. The transparent, light-blue is where it will go. And yes, it will be back-lit.

Two comments on this.  First, that's a pretty dark marquee.  Not sure how well that's going to light up.  You might consider either brightening up the lettering a bit, or at least add some glow to them to help them pop a little more.

Also, those vertical supports you have every few inches in the marquee area are going to cast shadows all across your marquee.  Not sure if you thought about that, but figured I'd mention it.  Hmm... maybe you could use strips of clear acrylic glued in there instead of wood....

As far as the small screens; It is the 15 degree angle of the screens that make the max size so small. The ones that I have in there now are a measly 17". This is the major downfall of this idea.

Oh my!  17" is TINY, especially for such a large cab.  For me that would be a major deal breaker.  The display can make or break the experience.  I can't even imagine playing on anything less than a 21".  With the 4:3 orientation, and considering the distance from the players, I would think the experience, especially with vertical games, would be pretty disappointing.  And light gun games??  Forget it...

IMHO, unless you can change the design to allow larger displays, I would have to consider scrapping the dual display idea and just go for one LARGE display, while still keeping the corner design.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and ultimately this is all my (educated) opinion.  I give you huge kudos for thinking out of the box (no pun intended).  But, in the end, all the ingenuity is for naught if it requires such big compromises in the quality of gameplay.   

Marquee was a quick, 5 minute thing. Just so people know there is a marquee.

If I were to simply take out the angle I could put in two 24" vertically... I might just do that... or I could put in a massive 32".. but that is getting expensive.

[Gamester]

Marquee was a quick, 5 minute thing. Just so people know there is a marquee.

Sorry to jump the gun on that.  Didn't realize it was just a placeholder.

If I were to simply take out the angle I could put in two 24" vertically... I might just do that... or I could put in a massive 32".. but that is getting expensive.

By 24" I assume you're referring to widescreen monitors?  A widescreen oriented vertically is probably less than ideal.  If that's your best option for dual screens, my vote would be for a single 32".  A 32" LCD TV can be had for around $300-$350.  Not sure what you had budgeted for the display, but this is one area where I can unequivocally say you do not want to scrimp.

One more thing to think about in your planning...  considering the outermost players will presumably be standing beside a wall while playing, will they have enough room to do so comfortably, without being cramped?  Even a large-ish person?

Anyway, I hope my feedback is helping and not bringing you down.  In the end, this is your project, and it's your choice how you build it.  Just trying to provide you food for thought.  

[wilno45]

Also bear in mind how easy it will be to move this thing. Is it door height or ceiling height - if its close to ceiling height you won't be able to tilt it much!

ie. You have to tilt it to get in the room, through the doorway but can't get it back upright.

Hope that made sense.

Good luck!

[yo1dog]

What would be so bad about the two 24" verticals?

[saurian333]

What would be so bad about the two 24" verticals?

I think he's getting at the fact that a vertical widescreen monitor won't gain you much.  Most vertically oriented games won't utilize the extra height, and horizontally oriented games will be tiny.  That's in my experience--which, granted, does not include building cabinets (only just started my cocktail).  But it seems to me that if you're going vertical with the monitors, you'd be better off with standards rather than widescreens.

Of course, a vertical widescreen is better than a horizontal one for the vertical games.  I think it comes down to what you plan to be playing most, and which games you want to provide the best experience for.  Alternatively, you could include in your design some means of rotating the monitors while in use (I've seen cocktails designed that way, but I don't think I've seen an upright like that yet).

[yo1dog]

I have decided to go with one 32" and reducing the angle to 5 degrees. It simply works better and I think it looks better as well. I am not abandoning the 2x2P or 1x4P idea. I will simply have to split the screen using a program to display two games on each half.

[yo1dog]

On second thought... if I could find a 24" square or 3:4 monitor, that would be best. Anyone know where I could get one?

[Gamester]

On second thought... if I could find a 24" square or 3:4 monitor, that would be best. Anyone know where I could get one?

I think about 21" is probably as big as you're going to find in a 4:3 monitor.  I have seen some dedicated arcade LCDs that are larger (25" I believe), but they are quite expensive as I recall.

[yo1dog]

Ya I saw those two. Cheapest was around 500 bucks a pop.

[Kevin Mullins]

heh, Nintendo did something similar actually:

http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1

Is there a project link of sorts ?
That's just a standard Dual System cabinet in that link. (factory dual game/monitor)

[Santoro]

Looks like an interesting project, I like it!

I agree, keep mobility in the back of your mind.  Moving that as one piece would be a bear.  Maybe you could make it in 2 pieces with a cleverly concealed meeting point?

[yo1dog]

That's what I have been trying to think of. The side panels are kinda key the structural integrity of the whole cabinet... perhaps I could cut it in half vertically at the control panel. That could also allow the removal of the control panel.

[yo1dog]

I have been playing around with the model and I noticed that by increasing the radius by 5" I have ample room to fit two 20" 4:3 LCDs at a 15°. By decreasing the angle a bit I could bump it up to 22". Only problem is that I can't find any 22" 4:3 LCDs. Anyone know of one?

Edit:
Forgot to mention the obvious advantage of a more spread out control panel. This will allow players 1 and 4 to be further away from the wall and I can easily center the trackball.

[Malenko]

Please dont take this as an overlay negative feedback, but I dont think the premise will work that well in practice as it does in theory.

2 screen 4 player cabs are more gimmicky then anything else. Cyberball and "Run n Gun" are the only 2 that come to mind that did it right, and it was only because team 1 and 2 had their own perspectives; something you cant really do in MAME. I dont really understand the need of having 2 smaller monitors when you could just get 1 bigger one.

Also, you have far too many controls on there, its just not needed. 44 buttons, 4 sticks, 2 spinners, 2 trackballs? seems a bit excessive. I would rethink this with a more practical mindset. Why not a 4 player NBA jam style cab thats wedged in the back for a corner? Now dont get me wrong, I love the asthetics of your cab, but in the end I think youre going to put too much time, energy, and most importantly MONEY into this and a cab that looks great but doesnt play well.

[yo1dog]

I have to disagree with you there and I think may not understand exactly what is going on.

"Team" 1 and 2 DO have their own perspectives. I am working with the MAME source to enable it to have two copies running at the same time on each display. I built a model using one large 32" tv and the problem you run into is that player 1 and 4 are seeing the screen from a 45° angle.

Yes I do realize that there are a lot of controls on this baby. This is to support the ability to play two games at once as well as navigate two menus at once. Its more like 2 sets of 2 joysticks, a trackball, and a spinner. I don't feel that the controls are too jammed together either and will still play well.

I appreciate your input

[Gamester]

I have been playing around with the model and I noticed that by increasing the radius by 5" I have ample room to fit two 20" 4:3 LCDs at a 15°. By decreasing the angle a bit I could bump it up to 22". Only problem is that I can't find any 22" 4:3 LCDs. Anyone know of one?

Now you're getting up to acceptable screen size, though I would still say that 20"  is pretty much the bare minimum size for a 2 player cab.  I'm not aware of any 22" 4:3 LCDs.

Since you're effectively building two arcade machines in a single cabinet, I can't help but think you'd save yourself a lot of headaches by just using two computers and be done with it.  I have a feeling you're going to run into all kinds of unforeseen issues down the road by trying to run two machines simultaneous instances on one computer.  

Just depends on your pain threshold really, and how much time and effort you're willing to spend to try to make it work.  Worst case, if your current plan doesn't work out, using two computers is a good fallback option.  Yes, you will lose the ability to play 4 players games, but honestly, there aren't very many of them anyway.  I can't tell you how many people I've seen on this forum that built 4-player cabs and said they wish they would have just built a 2-player.

[yo1dog]

Whichever I decide the cabinet is going to be exactly the same.

I really hope I am able to get my idea to work. I've been working on the code a lot and it seems to be going well so far.

I won't be running two copies of windows, just two copies of my modded MAME program.

[Gamester]

Well, regardless of the final outcome, I applaud your willingness to try something new.  Just the fact that you have the coding ability to attempt this is impressive.   

[Malenko]

I have to disagree with you there and I think may not understand exactly what is going on.

"Team" 1 and 2 DO have their own perspectives. I am working with the MAME source to enable it to have two copies running at the same time on each display. I built a model using one large 32" tv and the problem you run into is that player 1 and 4 are seeing the screen from a 45° angle.

Yes I do realize that there are a lot of controls on this baby. This is to support the ability to play two games at once as well as navigate two menus at once. Its more like 2 sets of 2 joysticks, a trackball, and a spinner. I don't feel that the controls are too jammed together either and will still play well.

I appreciate your input

I do understand whats going on, I was sure to digest it all before replying, thats why I waited a few days =)

the only way you gonna have each "team" have their own perspective is if
1) the game supports it
2a) You either run 2 PCs with their own copy of MAME (which will break a large number of 4 player games)
2b) you run 2 instances of MAME to their own screen from 1 PC, and I dont think they make computers fast enough to do that; and you'd hafta have a way to switch between 1 MAME for some 4 player games and 2 MAMEs for other 4 player games

Now I read you're modding the MAME source, but I cant think of how MAME can output 2 video outputs without acting like (and using up similar CPU cycles) as 2 MAMEs but I dont wanna be a debbie downer, and I wish ya the best of luck.