A new book that BYOAC cabinet builders might enjoy...

[GAtekwriter]

There was a slight flex in 1 of the 3 tables that were built during the book's writing - but it was fixed by bolting some 3'10" strips of c-bar underneath... even then, without the metal, the flex was less than 1/8" in the middle compared to the front and rear edges.  MDF is pretty rigid for this length.

Jim

[Ed_McCarron]

but it was fixed by bolting some 3'10" strips of c-bar underneath...

Ah, good idea.  Neat looking book.

[Scottk]

Hi,
I am also VERY interested in this project.

I am a HORRIBLE (and I truly mean HORRIBLE!) woodworker.
I have had many ideas, where I draw out the plans, and it looks good on paper, but when I go and try to cut the wood and put it together, it comes out like crap. 

I am thinking that this project just might be the key to my success.

I draw the plans, and have the CNC cut the parts for me.

So I have a number of questions.

Do you have more Photos of the machine, like the first photo, but take from various angles/sides?

I would like to see how it might look, size-wise, since I would be putting it into my garage, and need to understand the full dimensions...
ie, what sticks out and where.

Next...
My space is somewhat limited in my garage, so I was wondering if when its not in use, can the upper part move to the back, thus giving me a workspace for other things I might do, non-CNC cutting-wise?

Next, I think its been touched on, but I just wanted to verify it.

Is the idea that you cut the first set of parts, and try to get it as close to as "correct" as possible, and then if you find a few of your parts not perfect, that you could have the CNC
machine redo the cuts for you?
(ie, use your CNC to build a 2nd CNC, but in my case, I would swap out the old CNC parts that I did bad, and put the new ones in the place of it)

How does the interface work to the PC?
Is it assumed you will have a PC underneath the machine that will serve the CNC with the commands, etc?

Is the interface to it over a serial port (thus, you need a PC that still has a 232 serial port on it), or USB, or Ethernet?

(As a software programmer by trade, who works on firmware on embedded systems, if the interface is serial, my company actually produces many
Ethernet -> Serial convertors, which would work slick in sending commands from my PC in my office to the CNC out in the garage) =)

What software do you use?
I think you mentioned Mach3....

How much does that run?

Is that considered part of the estimate $800 cost?
(I am assuming the PC part is obviously NOT considered in the cost, but wasn't sure about the software)

Is there an open source CNC software package that might be gotten instead?

I think those are all the questions for now...

Thanks!
Scott

[GAtekwriter]

Hi, Scott.

I'll get some more pictures for you and post them in a separate reply, but here are some answers to your questions:

1.  My space is somewhat limited in my garage, so I was wondering if when its not in use, can the upper part move to the back, thus giving me a workspace for other things I might do, non-CNC cutting-wise?

My response: Yes, the taller portion (that makes up the y-axis and z-axis) can be moved to the front or back of the machine, leaving approximately 3' of workspace on the tabletop.  You'd want to be careful with the type of work you do on top of the CNC machine's worktable since you ideally want it to remain flat and unmarred.  Many users of CNC machines will insert a 1/8" piece of hardwood (available in 2x4 size) over the worktable and this is a sacrificial sheet that can be removed and replaced as often as you like.  For me, I find myself storing small tools on the cnc machine tabletop quite often - measuring tape, drill bits, etc.

2.  Is the idea that you cut the first set of parts, and try to get it as close to as "correct" as possible, and then if you find a few of your parts not perfect, that you could have the CNC machine redo the cuts for you?

My response:  Absolutely!  You can do this, and Patrick does this quite often.  The three machines built while I wrote this book (my dad's machine, mine, and my tech editors) all are working just fine and accurate without any recutting of parts using the actual CNC machine.  I did make a mistake on trimming a part during the initial build and we just ended up cutting that part again with a tablesaw (and using the matching piece to get the size correct - you'll do this a lot!  Since most parts on the CNC machine have a partner/matching piece, you can increase your accuracy by cutting them at the same time and using a tablesaw or sander to get their dimensions dead-on accurately matching.

3.  How does the interface work to the PC?  Is it assumed you will have a PC underneath the machine that will serve the CNC with the commands, etc?

My response:  The cnc machine and its motors and the motor drivers connect to a breakout board (I'll post a photo in separate response).  This breakout board connects to your PC via the printer port (LPT1).  It doesn't get much easier.  If your PC doesn't have a printer port, you can buy them at Radio Shack or computer parts stores for less than $10 these days.  (Microcenter in Atlanta sells them for $6.00).  I have seen breakout boards with USB interface, but they're more expensive and the word on the street (various cnc discussion boards) is that the parallel port method is more reliable and less finicky - I can't speak to that since I've only used the parallel port method, but it does work!

You do NOT have to have the PC underneath or beside the machine except when you wish to use it... my dad keeps his PC to the side of his worktable and disconnects it when not in use.  I take my PC in and out of the house (to the garage) when I need it.  My tech editor has his permanently wired to his machine (and I'll include a photo of that, too).  My tech editor wired up all the electronics using nothing more than my chapters, and he says if he can successfully get it wired up, then any reader can (he's more of a woodworker than electrician).

4.  What software do you use?

My response:  So far, I've used the free version of Mach3 which has allowed me to do most of the basic stuff you've seen.  The full version is around $150 and ArtSoft recommends you NOT buy it until you find you need to do more than the 500 lines of G-code that the free version allows.

As for CAD - I use the demo of VCarve - it's a bit pricey ($600) but I'm preparing to buy it because, honestly, it's that easy to create stuff!  Check out the website at http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/vcp/whats_new/vcp_v5/whats_new_overview.htm

The function of the book was to provide instruction for building a CNC machine - we didn't want to completely leave the reader hanging when it came to CAD/CAM/Controller software, so we do make some recommendations and provide some more websites... including quite a few free/open source alternatives.  When it comes to CAD software, though, there are just too many to cover and everyone seems to find their own favorite.

Any more questions, let me know... I'll try and get back here later and post a bunch more photos for you - I'll grab as many as I can and post quite a few (a limit of 8 per post, so forgive me if I add a few more posts to this thread.) 

Jim

[GAtekwriter]

Scott,

Here are some more photos...

1.  Breakout board wired up to the stepper motor drivers
2.  Rear view of Y-axis and Z-axis
3.  Machine's MDF parts all bolted together - minus electronics/motors/lead screws
4.  Closeup of Z-axis motor (very top of machine)
5.  Y-axis frame with Z-axis frame sitting on top of worktable and ready to install
6.  Hooked up an electric drill to the lead screw to test smoothness of movement along the Y-axis
7.  My dad's computer setup
8.  My tech editor's computer setup (he went a little above and beyond with the little cabinet, and his goal is to enclose most of it with plexi.

[bkenobi]

Your dad's computer might be in need of some ergonomics improvements.  I'm not sure OSHA would approve of having a table saw blade that close to your mouse hand.   

[Scottk]

Thank You for your answers and Photos!

It is already a done deal that I am going to buy your book and build one.  (Or, at least, attempting to build one)

Another question...

My space in my garage is very limited for storage of something this, however, I could see a very occasional need for cutting something larger than a 2x4, say a 4x8.

Now, I sure don't want to build a 4x8 version of this, as it would be much too large!

I was curious, any thoughts as to possibility of moving the arms from being on the "4 foot" side, and instead be on the "2 foot" side?

If that was done, then might it be possible to "cut" a 4x8 by shifting the piece 1/4 of the way at a time, and doing 4 cutting "passes" with me shifting the piece each pass, to get a full 4x8 cut?

Obviously this changes the plans drastically, as we are moving just about everything 90 degrees and thus causing lots of parts to be done "opposite", but I wonder if its even feasible to consider?

[GAtekwriter]

You will always have the issue of the weight of the router and its surrounding frame... I'm sure it could be done, but I'd be more concerned about the stress put on the two sides as the middle piece that makes up the Y-axis would be longer (4' vs 2') and I'm sure there would be some tension put on the edges... maybe even some warpage/twisting/not-sure-of-the-word...

Can it be done?  Sure... but I think it would involve a complete redesign of this table as well as coming up with some ways to keep stresses low... but I love the idea of being able to feed in a piece of 4x8 plywood... but CNC machines are accurate, so you (as the human operator) would have to be very careful about moving/feeding the piece because any small deviation on your part, either pushing the piece forward too far or not far enough will show up... and then there's the accidental twisting of the workpiece so it's no longer square... lots of hassle!

Jim

[Aceldamor]

Very cool indeed!

I know this will sound weird, but how about portability? Does the machine break down well, or would it not be recommended? I only ask because I anticipate moving in about 2 years, and don't want to build it if I will have to do so again in 2 years.

This will be a fantastic tool to use for cutting plexi for CP Covers, marquees, custom backlit side art templates, Internal shelving for PC parts..the applications really are endless here.

Would definitely be interested!

[GAtekwriter]

Hi, Aceldamor... Glad you like it!  Yes, one of the many things I was thinking about as I was building this was how easy it would have been to do some more customization on my arcade cabinet with this thing!!  Maybe the next one (a bartop is my next arcade project and I'll def be using my CNC machine to do the components).

As for portability - well, it's heavy.  MDF isn't light, and throw on the electronics and all the bolts and such, and it's best to move it with two people.  My ultimate goal is to bolt it down to a workbench I'm building with casters that can lockdown.  But the entire machine easily fits in the back of my Nissan Frontier (small pickup truck).  The lead screws help to keep the various axis frames from moving, but you'd still want to be careful that nothing hits them or pulls on them.  Can one person pick this thing up and load it in a truck?  Not without some sort of assistance with a dolly or other device... but two people (my dad and I) easily moved them around with no problem.  I think it's the bulk of the thing, not really the weight...

Jim

[vrf]

I've been eyeballing this book for a while. I have this Barnes and Nobel gift card that I'll probably use for this. I would be interested in hearing how the book compares with PHD's website... that resource is already pretty detailed and clear. I suppose the book is just a polished up version of all that info? (Plus easier reading...)

http://buildyourcnc.com/step1.aspx

In general there is so much info out on the web that a book seems like it might be redundant? A DIY CNC machine is the kind of project where a newbie can learn quite a lot by looking at all the projects/plans already out there, and take some of the best ideas from each one.

But yes... a DIY CNC machine is definitely a project I'd like to take on. I've been lurking over at CNCZone a lot lately.

[GAtekwriter]

I've watched every video, read every page, over at buildyourcnc.com - Patrick provides a LOT of information,but much of it is out of date (older versions of machines he no longer supports or recommends). 

Yes, a person could easily build their own CNC machine by carefully examining all the content out there, but it's so scattered and some of it conflicts.  Patrick and I discussed this book for quite some time before settling on the machine, the format, etc...

What we decided was to include the best machine that satisfied the most demands of a new cnc builder:  low cost (relatively, speaking), simplest method of movement (rails and lead screws), and ease of cutting/drilling/assembly (MDF vs other materials). 

We also decided to have many chapters versus a few large ones.  We chose spots where the reader could stop, look at the work they'd done to that point, and see progress.  Each chapter of the building process is fairly short compared to other books.  That's because readers typically prefer complicated info in small bits... so we broke the cutting/drilling/assembly process down into as many sub-parts as we could... no bookmarks needed - you'll finish a chapter and a checklist at the end of each chapter will summarize the work you've done, the hardware you've used (bolts, nuts, etc), and what's next.

What's nice about buildyourcnc.com is that Patrick has realistically shown how to build a cnc machine using five tools - handsaw, mitre box, drill, tap, and screwdriver.  I couldn't believe it at first, but Patrick really didn't have that many tools when he started out, so he used what he had.  This is a point we tell readers in the book - you don't need a huge garage of tools (but it helps)... with patience and some basic tools, you can build this machine.  (The electronics don't even have to be soldered, but we recommend that in place of wire nuts).

The book serves many purposes, one being having all the info in one place.  After building this machine, I'm much more confident now in building my next one (bigger, different form factor, different method of movement).  CNCZone is a site that we recommend in the book, and they've also offered us some free advertising for the book... it's a great site!

Hope some of this helps...

Jim

[vrf]

Good info. I am quite interested, but the release delays are puzzling. Awhile back it said the beginning of October... then November. Now it says it won't ship for 1 to 2 months?

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Machine-Technology-Action/dp/1430224894/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258215121&sr=8-1

[GAtekwriter]

I've found that you can't really trust Amazon's "Ships in X months..." messages... it's like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  The book was pushed up from a jan/feb 2010 expected publishing date to a November 2009 date... I spoke with my editor on Friday and the book is still scheduled to be released and for sale by end of November.

Jim

[vrf]

Hmm.. This looks like a nice little set of plans, too. Free is always nice, too.

http://diylilcnc.org/

[GAtekwriter]

Yes, the DIYLIL machine is awesome... for extremely detailed work, it'd be great... I like the bigger workspace that I have with my own machine and the motors and router are a little more powerful, too... I guess it all depends on what you'll be doing with it.

[GAtekwriter]

The book is out - I just got my author copies.  It's usually about 1 week after I get my copies that Amazon and B&N have them on the shelves and/or ship them. 

Jim

[vrf]

Crap... can't find my B&N gift card...

[rbarr110]

Besides getting the book, I recomend people go to CNCzone.com for their forums, in particular the DIY area.  Lots of great info there as well as free plans.

http://cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48

I myself am slowly putting together a Joes4x4 Hybrid CNC.  www.joescnc.com

[GAtekwriter]

Not familiar with the Joe's CNC, but it sure looks cool... 4x4 meaning 4 feet x 4 feet?  Nice size!

Jim

[nox771]

Joescnc looks pretty cool.  The 4x4 CNC looks beyond the scope of an $800 project though given the amount of structural metal used.  The older design had interesting elements - I like the torsion box base.

Also just a note, I had the book on order and Amazon sent an email that it has been shipped, so the books are in.

[GAtekwriter]

nox771:  yes, a 4x4 workspace would double the workspace size of the machine I built but I'm betting the cost would be much more... increasing the width or length of the x axis has an immediate effect on the y axis - many of the y-axis parts will now double in size, as will your hardware costs (more bolts to keep the rigidity constant).

Thanks for buying the book!  I really hope you'll post a picture (or pictures) as you build and I can't wait to see what you do with it!

Jim

[rbarr110]

Joescnc looks pretty cool.  The 4x4 CNC looks beyond the scope of an $800 project though given the amount of structural metal used. 

Yes, the 4x4 is much more expensive, you can expect to drop over $2k.

[GAtekwriter]

If any of you are interested, we have most of the full color photos and videos on the book's website now - http://buildyourcnc.com/Book.aspx - just click on a chapter along the left side of the screen.  We're not 100% done yet, but we're almost done... we have a LOT of videos to upload and are only up to chapter 13 at this point... 6 more to go.

Jim

[crashwg]

So I've got myself the book and I'm thinking about giving this a go but I can't locate the bill of materials...  Am I missing something?  Shouldn't there be a list of how many nuts and bolts and in what size are required?  I know there's a "Hardware Required" section at the end of each chapter but being a purchasing agent in a custom manufacturing facility for a couple years has shown me just how important a B.O.M. is... 

I suppose I could go through the book and add everything up but even if I did that I wouldn't have stuff like the length of the lead screws which as an example, in figure 9-9 of chapter 9 it says "Mark an extra 1" of lead screw on both ends of the table and cut."  While I can imagine that since the book is aimed at those who might not have the skills (as accurately as you would like) to cut the whole thing out, assemble it and expect everything to line up perfectly, it is frustrating from a perspective of a mechanically inclined person who just wants to order all the hardware in one go.

Here's hoping that you've got a B.O.M. for me and a suggestion to put it up on the website and maybe consider putting it in version 2 of the book if that's any sort of possible.

[GAtekwriter]

Check out the book's forum at www.buildyourcnc.com/book.aspx - we've had similar requests and Patrick is putting one together.  In the meantime, a reader has put together his own as a downloadable Excel spreadsheet and posted a link in the forums.

Jim

[crashwg]

Good to know, thanks.  I guess I'll start by picking up some MDF and some required tools then.