Using Spinners for 1 & 2 player racing games - GGG Mini Racing Wheels?

[cmoses]

I am getting ready to get some spinners for my control panel and have decided on Groovy Game Gear's TurboTwist 2.  I plan to put two spinners on my control panel for 2 player racing games like Super Sprint and Ivan Stewarts Off Road.  I would use them for single player racing games like Pole Position and Turbo as well.  Are there a lot of people that use spinners for racing games?  How is the feel and control when using a spinner?

I am also very interested in the 5" Mini Racing Wheels that GGG sells and was hoping to get some thoughts and opinions from people that have them.  Also any pictures that you have of the wheels on your control panel would be great too.

The decision of going with the wheels is a big one as they are about half the cost of the spinners, so they add significantly to the total price.   TT2 - $69.95 - 5" Mini Racing Wheel $29.95. 

I think having the mini racing wheels would make for a better experience overall.  Not as authentic as a real racing wheel but closer to the real thing and will fit on my control panel.  The thing that I am not sure of is how easy it is to swap the wheels and the regular spinners out.

If you are not using the Mini Racing Wheels but are using spinners for racing games, which knobs are you using?

Thanks

[fatfingers]

Swapping the wheels is a simple matter of using the allen wrench to loosen the set screw in the spinner top and placing the wheel on the spinner shaft and tightening that set screw.  About 60 seconds of work.

[FrizzleFried]

Personally...I sold my wheel.  Why?  Because it was a pain in the ass swapping from the wheel to the knob and vice-versa.   I found that I'd switch and it would stay whatever it was (usually the knob) for a long period of time.   If it was a matter of simply fitting the wheel OVER the already installed knob,  that would rock... but having to bust out the allen wrench and remove the knob and vice-versa...well,  in practical terms,  it just doesn't happen all too much. 

So... I sold my wheel...

If Randy ever came up with a knob/wheel combo where you could leave the knob on and slip the wheel over the knob...I'd buy it.

[cmoses]

Frizzle,

Do you play racing games with your spinner?  Can I ask what type of knob you have?  How is the feel when using the spinner?  I know it's not like having a racing wheel, but for that matter neither is the mini wheel. 

[RandyT]

Swapping the wheels is a simple matter of using the allen wrench to loosen the set screw in the spinner top and placing the wheel on the spinner shaft and tightening that set screw.  About 60 seconds of work.

Just to keep the record straight, there is no set screw on the steering wheel, only on the knob.  The wheel is held on by it's own weight, and close fit of the hole to the spinner shaft.

RandyT

[mayhem]

Shame you done have a quick release for the spinner top for swapping out the wheel. May solve the problem above for users.

e.g

[Ginsu Victim]

Shame you done have a quick release for the spinner top for swapping out the wheel. May solve the problem above for users.

Doesn't sound like a problem, though, more like nitpicking. It's so easy to change it out that a quick release isn't necessary.

[mayhem]

Like every thing in life over time improve products ...

Why make life hard with a simple mod you could make life easy !

Only a suggestion though lol

So sorry its not "nit picking" but giving a idea that would improve said item.

[Ginsu Victim]

I didn't accuse you of nitpicking. I accused the others of it.

Also, you didn't have that image up when I posted, but I like what I see there!

[RandyT]

Like every thing in life over time improve products ...

Why make life hard with a simple mod you could make life easy !

It's an interesting idea, but this would negate the feature that allows for variable resistance on the spin.  Some folks really like the ability to simulate a paddle control whenever they feel like it.

Also, something like that is a bit over engineered in this particular case.  If the Accu-Twist feature were to be negated anyway, all one would need to do is stuff a small amount of paper or other material into the hole of the knob (to keep it from bottoming out on the spinner top) and then use a plastic set screw with just the right tighness to grab the shaft so it can slide on and off without needing to use a wrench.  The special set screw used with the Accu-Twist feature pretty much allows for this right now.

RandyT

[mayhem]

I didn't accuse you of nitpicking. I accused the others of it.

Also, you didn't have that image up when I posted, but I like what I see there!

Yip sorry i all ways correct my mistakes in spelling lol ...

yes its a little over engineered (like ever thing i do) but the concept is sound. But since i only own a Spinner and not a wheel i would not know.

[FrizzleFried]

Frizzle,

Do you play racing games with your spinner?  Can I ask what type of knob you have?  How is the feel when using the spinner?  I know it's not like having a racing wheel, but for that matter neither is the mini wheel. 

Yeah...I race with the spinner.   I have one of the knobs with the rubberish/foam around it... it doesn't feel like "racing" really,  but whatever. 

I am...one day...going to build a dedicated racer... but I need a sit down cab to do it with.

[FrizzleFried]

Shame you done have a quick release for the spinner top for swapping out the wheel. May solve the problem above for users.

Doesn't sound like a problem, though, more like nitpicking. It's so easy to change it out that a quick release isn't necessary.

Until that one day you can't find the small key/wrench to take it off...

Nitpicking or not,  that is why I sold my wheel... it just wasn't getting used.

[Ginsu Victim]

How hard is it to keep it just inside the coin door or nearby? Now you're reaching for excuses.

[FrizzleFried]

How hard is it to keep it just inside the coin door or nearby? Now you're reaching for excuses.

Excuses?  I am simply relaying my experience with the wheel and why I sold it.  Take it or leave it,   I couldn't give two shits.

[Ginsu Victim]

But bitching about it is like the people who get a 4-way/8-way stick and ---smurfette--- about rotating the restrictor. You knew what you were getting going in.

[FrizzleFried]

But bitching about it is like the people who get a 4-way/8-way stick and ---smurfette--- about rotating the restrictor. You knew what you were getting going in.

The OP asked for opinions. 

I am also very interested in the 5" Mini Racing Wheels that GGG sells and was hoping to get some thoughts and opinions from people that have them.

I expressed mine.  It's not like I don't like Randy's products... I pimp his stuff all the time.  I simply expressed the issue that I came across and why I sold my wheel.   

Now is this where you're going to tell me what my opinions are and how I should express them?   I guess you're right... I sold my wheel for no reason what so ever... it was all in my head.  I apologize.

BTW: No one listens to me anyway...

[mayhem]

I don't think its a argument to be honest.

He does have a point about the screw thread and swapping out how ever like randy has said there over coming this problem.

I personally find it a complete pain in rear having to use a hex to remove the top off my spinner. But then again its not some thing i experience a lot because i don't use a Wheel. It would be a nice feature to have but If i got one i would annoyed after a few hours of my kids asking for it to be swapped over left right and centre as they scroll though each game on mame.

So that option will never come into play for me as i don't even what to think about the nightmare that this would cause in my own home.

--- added ----

Look at the guns out on the scene .. people have problem with LCD screen and light guns. there is a answer called the LCD light gun but its not perfect. So people are coming up with new ways to fix that problem by inventing new solutions to the problem. No one is nagging about it and people receive praise for there inventiveness in solving the problem. Same goes for the spinner.

There is old school and there is new school and simplicity is the way forward to bring new members and new talent to the scene.

[FrizzleFried]

I'd suggested to Randy in the past to create a spinner top with a rubber center where the hole is drilled just a wee bit smaller than the shaft.  That would solve the problem... Evidently there's not enough of a market or Randy would likely have done such a thing.  No big deal.

[cmoses]

Just to keep the record straight, there is no set screw on the steering wheel, only on the knob.  The wheel is held on by it's own weight, and close fit of the hole to the spinner shaft.

RandyT

Too bad the same can't be done with a spinner knob.  Just have it held on with a close fit of the hole and its own weight.  Then they could be swapped out without having to use a hex nut to tighten it down.

[RandyT]

I'd suggested to Randy in the past to create a spinner top with a rubber center where the hole is drilled just a wee bit smaller than the shaft.  That would solve the problem... Evidently there's not enough of a market or Randy would likely have done such a thing.  No big deal.

Believe it or not, this was explored in depth and at no small cost in time and prototypes.  It just never resulted in anything that worked well.  Unfortunately, it's one of those things that sounds great on paper, but ends up flat in practice.  It was impossible to get the resistance "just right", resulted in ugly wobble of the knob, created manufacturing problems, would stretch or wear out from friction, etc., etc. 

Really, if anyone wants a slip fit capable knob, I'll offer some with the plastic set screws that will fill the need.  The set screws allow for adjustment and won't scar the shaft.  It actually works quite well....as long as you aren't interested in the Accu-Twist feature.

RandyT

[Loafmeister]

I think I'm the one who bought Frizzle's wheel.  It's pretty cool but it is a pain in the butt to replace the spinner.  However, that's the way it is and you do get used to it .

In saying that, don't mistaken a 4" or 5" wheel as replacement for a full size wheel. It's fun to use but it's not the same.  Still, I do find it better than just using the spinner and thus, it deserves its place on my CP.  Just keep the limitations in mind.

[leapinlew]

But bitching about it is like the people who get a 4-way/8-way stick and ---smurf--- about rotating the restrictor. You knew what you were getting going in.

Geez Ginsu, whats got into you lately? Frizzle was expressing his opinion about a product. I happen to agree with him and figured it wouldn't get used for the same reason. I guess I'm in trouble now too? 

[TheShanMan]

Ginsu, I don't get why you're on Friz's case either. He's not bashing Randy's product. He's just saying that it didn't work out as well as he hoped it would for him personally. I can totally relate to the "laziness" factor Friz described. I have swappable panels, and while I like the option, it's not very often that I feel motivated to spend a minute swapping them. So I think it's just more Friz expressing his laziness (as I'm doing now as well) than saying it's not a good product. It's totally valid to point out the possibility that the OP might get tired of the swapping procedure (not taking into account the solution Randy later expressed).

[FrizzleFried]

Who knows....had the teflon/plastic screw solution been proposed back when I had the wheel,  perhaps I'd have kept it.  I dunno.

Sounds like it may work well...

[Ginsu Victim]

Geez Ginsu, whats got into you lately?

I blame ChadTower.

I was only saying it's a problem with the user, not the product. I thought fatfingers explained the swapping procedure well enough (despite the one mistake that Randy corrected).

[diggso]

er, getting back to cmoses question: i use 2 spinners for 1 & 2 player racing games. i've got those ultimarc spin-trak spinners that you can see at http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm. i use the red knobs as shown the big picture of the assembled spinner. i have to admit i find them a dream for playing stuff like super sprint & off road (once you bring the sensitivity down to about 6%) but spinners aren't so great for the 1 player racing games like out run etc. not terrible, just not like a wheel. still a lot better than joystick...

[CheffoJeffo]

For me, this is a timely question -- I have a MAME cab that I intended to be dedicated with two spinners and a trackball (horizontal display). My intent is to have two miniwheels on the spinners and I am thinking that the switchover may not be such an issue for me.

I need to look into it a bit, but I am now thinking that I should use three spinners, two with miniwheels and one without.

[cmoses]

I am grateful for everyone's opinions and I do not think that anyone is knocking Randy's products at all, just giving their honest thoughts and experiences.  The process may be simple, but the reality for most people is that unless it is "extremely quick and easy" they will probably not swap them out.  Either playing the game with whatever controller is on there or just deciding not to play that game because the wrong controller is on there.  I myself probably fall into that same category.  That was why I wanted to know what people were doing and how they were handling the situation.

Based on what I am reading here, this is what I think I will be doing:

I think I will be purchasing two TT2 spinners with two mini racing wheels.  Having two spinners on the control panel gives you the most flexibility, ease of use and controller options.  For everyday use I would have the spinner on the right side of the control panel have just a regular spinner knob on it and the spinner on the left have the mini racing wheel on it.  This way I could play Tempest, Arknoid, Cameltry, etc with the spinner knob and Super Sprint, Turbo, Off Road, etc with the mini racing wheel.  This would allow for the most amount of games playable without any switching needed.

Now if I knew someone was coming over for some 2 player action I could easily switch out the spinner or mini racing wheel beforehand to accommodate this.  Having two mini racing wheels if I think we will be primarily doing some heads up racing or two spinners for Blasteroids, Arknoid Returns, Warlords, etc. 

Any thoughts on this approach?

 

[cmoses]

er, getting back to cmoses question: i use 2 spinners for 1 & 2 player racing games. i've got those ultimarc spin-trak spinners that you can see at http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm. i use the red knobs as shown the big picture of the assembled spinner. i have to admit i find them a dream for playing stuff like super sprint & off road (once you bring the sensitivity down to about 6%) but spinners aren't so great for the 1 player racing games like out run etc. not terrible, just not like a wheel. still a lot better than joystick...

Do you have any pictures of your control panel.  Curious as to where you decided to place the spinners.  Also, do you think the spinners "feel" better because Super Sprint and Off Road are more top down racers, where single player racers like Pole Position and Outrun and from behind the car?

[RandyT]

If anyone is interested, I thought I would put in an update on the "quick change knob" method I wrote about earlier.

It worked well with the special set screws I had here, so I got some plastic ones in.  It works fantastically!  Much more control than with the other screws.  Slides on and "pops" off (literally) so I will be including one of the screws with every wheel order from here out.

Also, if anyone who already has a wheel and a premium knob wants one of these screws, they can send me a self addressed, stamped envelope and I'll send them one right out.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

You're a good guy, Randy. 

[mimic]

It worked well with the special set screws I had here, so I got some plastic ones in. 
RandyT

Randy I wondered how well tested are the plastic screws? I hear plastic I think they might strip off fairly quick?
I once in another thread asked you about my idea, but maybe you didn't see my post or didn't have time to respond, how about threaded hole in the center of spinner's knob and a threaded stud at the end of the wheel?
(I was gonna post my crude drawing, but  I don't see upload option?)

[RandyT]

Randy I wondered how well tested are the plastic screws? I hear plastic I think they might strip off fairly quick?

Sometimes the the simplest solutions are the best ones.  There is no need to be concerned about stripping.  The screws are nylon, which is pretty tough, and you aren't torquing them tightly to the shaft.  If you want to do that, then you should use a proper set screw as that pretty much negates the whole idea of what we are trying to accomplish.  The screw just acts as a bit of interference to create friction, nothing more.

I once in another thread asked you about my idea, but maybe you didn't see my post or didn't have time to respond, how about threaded hole in the center of spinner's knob and a threaded stud at the end of the wheel?
(I was gonna post my crude drawing, but  I don't see upload option?)

If you had a positive way to lock the shaft, it would work.  But without a locking mechanism on the shaft, you would never be able to screw the two together.  The shaft is free spinning.  Of course all of this additional "stuff" would also add about $20+ to the overall cost.

RandyT

[mimic]

If you had a positive way to lock the shaft, it would work.  But without a locking mechanism on the shaft, you would never be able to screw the two together.  The shaft is free spinning.  Of course all of this additional "stuff" would also add about $20+ to the overall cost.

RandyT

That's where my drawing would come in handy. I don't know why I can't find upload option. Anyway I meant drilling hole in the knob itself and then adding stud to the bottom of the wheel, that way all you have to do is hold the knob with one finger and the thumb while screwing the wheel on top with other hand. After that wheel should spin along with the knob.
I guess that's something for the future I'll mail you sase for the said screws. thank you for trying to make it as easy as possible for us.

[mayhem]

id probs by one off your store randy but you dont except paypal . ...

[TheShanMan]

Randy, you're really tempting me to replace my tempest spinner with your spinner + wheel! I'll be really interested to hear how well this works out for people. I'm curious to know if over time the nylon screw will gradually loosen, or if it fits tightly enough in the knob that there is no chance of it backing out on its own.

[RandyT]

That's where my drawing would come in handy. I don't know why I can't find upload option. Anyway I meant drilling hole in the knob itself and then adding stud to the bottom of the wheel, that way all you have to do is hold the knob with one finger and the thumb while screwing the wheel on top with other hand. After that wheel should spin along with the knob.
I guess that's something for the future I'll mail you sase for the said screws. thank you for trying to make it as easy as possible for us.

I see what you are saying.  That would make it pretty high by time it was done, unless a very special wheel and knob combo was made.  If I tried to do something like that with the current wheels, it would be really easy to damage something with all of that extra leverage.  But still, an interesting idea.

What knob are you using now?  I can include a small spacer for you to glue into the hole if you don't have the Accu-Twist option.  This would give you a "dead stop" to make returning the knob to the same level every time a bit more convenient.

I'm curious to know if over time the nylon screw will gradually loosen, or if it fits tightly enough in the knob that there is no chance of it backing out on its own.

While I doubt this will be an issue, even this can be taken care of by simply chasing the plastic one with small metal one to "lock" it in place.

RandyT

[mimic]

Randy
Yes, height of the whole thing was a concern for me in my original post. So it's more for the future than current set of wheels/knobs. If you would shave off the silver part of the wheel I think it would be low enough to not be a concern.

As to which type of the knob I've got, I'm not sure. My knob seems like its secured with 2 allen type screws. I never removed the knob and I don't even remember if the wheel came with it's own allen key or not, by now if it did, then I lost it anyway.

[RandyT]

As to which type of the knob I've got, I'm not sure. My knob seems like its secured with 2 allen type screws. I never removed the knob and I don't even remember if the wheel came with it's own allen key or not, by now if it did, then I lost it anyway.

I'm afraid a premium knob would be required.  Either one of the stainless-steel varieties or the new aluminum ones.  The basic plastic knobs are good, but not really good enough for this type of application.  The set screws are smaller than the ones I have and they don't have much to grab as they are a hollow knob.  The premium knobs are solid and threaded the full length of the hole.

RandyT

[mimic]

heh, I didn't even realise that the knob is plastic. I always thought they're aluminum! Guess nothing for me! 

Btw can you tell me what size allen key I need to take that knob off. I got some cheapo set of allen keys and none fits, it seems like it should be somewhere between 2 & 2.5, as neither one of them works.

[RandyT]

I need a better description to tell.  If it's the blue one, or the Black or Red Rubber, it's a small flathead screwdriver.  If it's the black one with a white dot, or the "Black Dimple", it's a 5/64ths hex.

[mimic]

I need a better description to tell.  If it's the blue one, or the Black or Red Rubber, it's a small flathead screwdriver.  If it's the black one with a white dot, or the "Black Dimple", it's a 5/64ths hex.

Yeah that's the one with a white dot.
Hey also something to ponder on what I was talking about. If you would ever decide to go with wheel with the stud then there would be one less step to do, meaning removing of the knob itself and setting it somewhere aside, it would always be there.

[cmoses]

If anyone is interested, I thought I would put in an update on the "quick change knob" method I wrote about earlier.

It worked well with the special set screws I had here, so I got some plastic ones in.  It works fantastically!  Much more control than with the other screws.  Slides on and "pops" off (literally) so I will be including one of the screws with every wheel order from here out.

Also, if anyone who already has a wheel and a premium knob wants one of these screws, they can send me a self addressed, stamped envelope and I'll send them one right out.

RandyT

Randy,

Anyway you can post some pictures or diagrams that show this?  From the descritption I think I know what you are describeing. 

[RandyT]

Anyway you can post some pictures or diagrams that show this?  From the descritption I think I know what you are describeing. 

If I need to post a diagram, you are overthinking it

You simply place the knob on the shaft, lightly snug the plastic set screw so it grips, but can still be pulled off without excessive resistance.  This took me all of 15 seconds to do.

Once you do that, it will push on just as easily. 

RandyT

[Loafmeister]

Hmmm, I have the slikstik Tornado spinner (with the skirted knob).  Understanding the issue of the knob needing to be "tight", I still found when I loosened it, there was enough resistance to the point I still had to use some effort to remove it.  So with that in mind, maybe, just maybe it didn't need the screws to be tightened at all.

So on a whim, I decided to try using the spinner without the screws tightened and low and behold, it seemed to play identical.  So to anyone who has this spinner, is it necessary to tighten it?  Is the concern that over time, friction will ruin the inside of the knob and will make it too loose?  I tell you, without the screws, it's obviously a cinch to swap the knob for the wheel.

[TheShanMan]

I have a follow up question (Randy's plastic set screw solution really has me considering a switch to this spinner!). For those of you who have this steering wheel, what is the angle of the control panel mount? Mine has a slope of probably only 20 degrees, so I'm picturing a "bus driver steering wheel" type of setup rather than a normal car type of setup, and I wonder how happy I'd be with that. Anyone with that kind of a setup, and if so, does that kind of angle work OK for you?