Author Topic: Dig Dug Restoration by a Complete Noob (Read 20926 times)

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #40 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:05:59 pm »

Something was clipped from the harness at the connector for the PCB (does that make sense?) but I can't tell what color the wires that were clipped were.

Also, there is a number on the AR board that says "1160697-01." Am I right in assuming this is an AR II-01 board and that's the kind kit I need to rebuild that board?

ChadTower · « **Reply #41 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:08:23 pm »

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/parts.html#atari

First check the manual to make sure that's the right one. It may not be.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #42 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:24:41 pm »

Yup, the manual says A/R II. And I see all the caps and the Q2, Q3, and R29 on the board that Bob Roberts lists in his kit (Atari A/R or A/R II-01 Repair Kit (Caps+Q2/3+R29)).

So, doing a little research it looks like these Sanyos were for Nintendo games? Should I just buy a refurb'd GO7 like what was supposed to be in there in the first place?

ChadTower · « **Reply #43 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:35:45 pm »

There are a bunch of monitors you could get but the G07 is as good as any I suppose. Local is always best with this stuff if you have anyone around. Here is a good baseline price. That's retail, keep in mind, so it would be lower from a random person.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #44 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:51:36 pm »

Quote from: Peale on March 13, 2009, 01:57:57 pm

If that's a Sanyo monitor, the connector on is is very tiny and you won't be able to use the Sanyo anyway. Couple that with the missing inverter board, and you're double screwed.

That's why it looks like the video has been tied together into that larger molex to me.
Actually has two options now, the Sanyo setup AND the standard setup for more common monitors.

I pretty certain he doesn't need the inverter board because the chassis has the triple set of transistors and resistors that is normally "missing" in a Nintendo version. The Sanyo actually started out as "normal" monitors, they were modified to work with the Nintendo which they are more commonly found in. The inverter board is there to make the "modified" versions work with standard games.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #45 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:57:56 pm »

That is the correct ARII board for Dig Dug.

Hard to really tell in the pics, but check all the resistors closely and with a meter to see if any are open (burnt/broke). Especially like R29, R30 I believe.
That pcb edge connection already looks like it's has some soldering repairs done to it on the main board, so I would double check for good solid connection with the wiring harness plugged in. That will cause those resistors to burn up that I mentioned and you will loose voltage going to the game board.

Level42 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:58:46 pm »

Yep. Shame it's missing, I could have used one

Seriously, if you can get the Sanyo working, it will be a great monitor. Off all my cabs the Sanyo (not 20EZ, earlier version) in my Nintendo cab is by far the best looking of all of them. And yes it has been running quite a bit because there is a slight Radar Scope burn-in AND I haven't even re-capped it (except for the fold-over cap). And even so, the picture is like new. Ask Polaris he saw it yesterday and was amazed

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #47 on:** March 13, 2009, 03:21:30 pm »

Quote from: Peale on March 13, 2009, 01:57:57 pm

And note the ground wire soldered directly to the PCB. Check the harness, was it clipped there too?

Yeah, I saw that too, but didn't see anything for it to plug into in the cabinet.
Maybe that was a quick fix by someone because the edge connection was bad.
It definitely appears that the edge has been repaired or at least has something going on there. But the original wiring still appears to be in the harness correctly. And the spots that look "odd" are obviously power/ground related.

Can you get a decent picture of that pcb edge connection without the harness plugged in?
Maybe we can see something going on there as well.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #48 on:** March 13, 2009, 03:24:15 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on March 13, 2009, 02:58:46 pm

Yep. Shame it's missing

What I'm saying is it's not "missing" .... it was never there.

And yes, these are damn good monitors when working.
As long as the flyback doesn't go out.....it'll last and look good forever.

ChadTower · « **Reply #49 on:** March 13, 2009, 03:41:00 pm »

Well, those Atari games are known for having truly crappy connectors... and it doesn't look burned... so someone probably just bypassed the connector rather than repin it. At least they put a molex on it so you can still remove the PCB.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #50 on:** March 13, 2009, 03:51:13 pm »

Yeah, I just don't see the other end of it hanging around anywhere.
(not in any of those pics anyways)

ChadTower · « **Reply #51 on:** March 13, 2009, 03:56:01 pm »

I guess it would be in the harness... unless they did it outside the harness going back to the AR board and they didn't put the other half back in. Either way that should be a fairly straightforward thing to undo by repairing the original connector.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #52 on:** March 13, 2009, 04:07:23 pm »

Agreed.

Which is why I was asking for a good pic of the pcb edge...... just to see what shape it's in at the moment.

You know how it goes... one guy does one thing, another comes behind and does something else, then who knows where it came from and what's been done in between.
Heck, someone may have repaired the edge and was just too lazy to undo the other guys stuff.
Seen it happen all too often, working on a bunch of those right now as a matter of fact. (what a mess)

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #53 on:** March 13, 2009, 04:39:55 pm »

My camera is suddenly on the fritz so I tried some scans instead. I may need to find my wife's camera...

ChadTower · « **Reply #54 on:** March 13, 2009, 04:47:02 pm »

Those edge traces look like someone tried to repair them but didn't get it working. Probably because the issue was the connector pin and not so much the edge contact. So they bypassed it instead. Weird route to take.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #55 on:** March 13, 2009, 04:52:45 pm »

I have had to do similar repairs before by repairing a break and then "tinning" the edge connector, but why they didn't tin the entire trace all the way out I don't understand.
That ground trace looks especially questionable, which might explain the red wire adapter thing.
Clean them all off real good with something gentle like a pencil eraser and see how they look then.

And like Chad said..... it probably has some issues on the harness connector as well.
Check for charred blackened tarnished pins and such.
Make sure they all fit tight, the gap between two opposite pins should all be equally narrow.

Also let us know how them ARII board resistors look.

ChadTower · « **Reply #56 on:** March 13, 2009, 04:55:47 pm »

I've done a bunch of those Atari connectors... sometimes they don't look that bad but have come loose in the crimp. Or you can't tell the tin has snapped because the break is out of line of sight.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #57 on:** March 13, 2009, 05:06:02 pm »

I know what you mean.
I like to ohm them from the game pcb all the way to the ARII and whatnot and if they are even questionable I redo them.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #58 on:** March 13, 2009, 05:36:22 pm »

Damn...I just stepped on my multimeter and broke it.

I gotta move this stuff out to the garage where there's more room. Well, off to Lowe's.

Level42 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:25:28 pm »

Hey, it is friday the 13th. First the camera, now the multimeter. ....

The connector was still great looking on my Missile Command cabaret BUT it had very loose tension on the board edge and following it it had burned the resisitor on the AR2. Luckely an easy fix.

This video gives you an idea how an old connector compares to a brand new one (please excuse my English

):

ChadTower · « **Reply #60 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:31:43 pm »

Your English is as good as half the people I work with. And they're American born.

One thing, though... bad contact doesn't increase voltage, it increases heat, through reduced material for the same current to pass through. Increased heat burns it smaller, which makes it hotter, which burns it more... until it's fried.

Level42 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 14, 2009, 03:19:08 am »

Thanks.

Yeah, maybe should have written a text before filming that

The funny thing of it is that I had only one hand to handle the connectors, and the first time I take off the original one it really pops loose right away. More or less accidently but it really shows how poor the tension has become.

What I actually meant is that the AR-II will increase the voltage because it will "think" the voltage is too low because of the bad contacts.

Hey, I am educated in electronics, if there's one thing I should know is that U=I x R

In essence they should have used separate connectors for the power connection. One's that are designed to carry more current. Williams made the same mistake with their connectors. But hey, they didn't design those machines to last 25 years

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #62 on:** March 14, 2009, 07:24:43 pm »

My God, yesterday WAS Friday the 13th!

Well, got a new multimeter and checked the resistors on the AR and 12 of them are bad (I wrote down which ones didn't beep at me).

Can I check the capacitors with the multimeter?

ChadTower · « **Reply #63 on:** March 14, 2009, 08:28:58 pm »

That's not how you check resistors... you need to look up the value and check it with the Ohms setting.

You can't really check the caps with the multimeter. Assume they are bad and replace them because electrolytic caps have a relatively short lifespan.

SirPeale · « **Reply #64 on:** March 14, 2009, 09:53:41 pm »

You absolutely can not check resistors with continuity check. It must be done with the ohms setting on your multimeter. A lot of resistors don't pass enough electrons to allow the continuity check to beep. If any of the resistors are going to be bad, it'll be R29 or R30. If they're not burned, they're probably okay.

Chad is right, you should replace every electrolytic cap on the board.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #65 on:** March 14, 2009, 10:04:19 pm »

Man I've got alot to learn...

OK, here's the readings I get for each resistor:

R10 (1 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 1
R19 (1 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 1
R11 (10 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 9.9
R20 (10 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 9.7
R29 (10 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 11.2
R30 (10 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 12.3
R4 (100 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 99.3
R12 (100 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 99
R22 (100 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 99.2
R27 (1k Ohm +/- 5%) - reads .988
R28 (1k Ohm +/- 5%) - reads .994
R13 (10k Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 9.92
R14 (10k Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 9.92
R1 (270 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads .265
R3 (33 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 32.8
R6 (3.9k Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 2.69
R7 (7.5k Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 3.09
R9 (220 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads .202
R21 (220 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads .218
R5 (2.7 Ohm +/- 5%) - reads 2.7
R24 (.1 Ohm +/- 3%) - reads .1
R8 (1k Ohm) - reads 1 (I'm not sure if I checked this one correctly)

If I'm doing it right this time, it looks like R6, R7 and R9 aren't within the +/- 5% range and should be replaced. Is that right?

SirPeale · « **Reply #66 on:** March 14, 2009, 11:48:59 pm »

Did you get these values from the schematic, or from the resistors themselves?

I'd be less concerned with the values of the resistors and more concerned with the output the AR/II is putting out. Measure this AFTER recapping, however. But if you're really concerned, replace away.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #67 on:** March 15, 2009, 12:07:42 am »

Yup, all the values came from the schematic book. Think I'll recap first before replacing any of those resistors. Cap kit for the AR has been ordered from Bob Roberts. Now for the wait.

Level42 · « **Reply #68 on:** March 15, 2009, 05:55:01 am »

Those values look OK to me. I assume that you've measured across the resistors in circuit (without soldering one end loose). What you will measure then is not only that resistor but (depending on how it is positioned in the circuit) also other parts that may be in parallel with it.

As you can see, most values are very close though. Some of the others are a bit more off because of that reason probably so don't worry about it.

If you really want to accurately measure a resistance you will have to solder one leg loose, lift it up and then measure it.

However, I really don't think there's a need to do that. Like Peale says, the only often failing resistor is R29/R30 and it's because of it's "position" in the circuit.

Replacing the caps is something you should do as a precaution, but I don't think the real problem is there. It's more likely that one of the transistors has gone.

If you ordered the full repair kit for the AR-II and replace all parts, there's a _very_ big chance it will be OK again.

See some AR-II work I did on my Missile Command here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81554.msg865768#msg865768
That was actually the only AR-II that I've had failing.

I assume you also ordered a cap-kit for the monitor while ordering from Bob ??

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #69 on:** March 15, 2009, 11:26:57 am »

Yes, I did measure in circuit and I did remember to order the monitor cap kit (at the last moment!).

gameguy1957 · « **Reply #70 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:46:11 am »

Once you get the voltages correct and everything appears to be right so that is should be playing blind, but it doesn't, check the volume pot. It may actually be playing blind, but you just can't hear it.

Same on the monitor, once you get a neck glow and replaced the caps, be sure to check the brightness if it still doesn't get a picture.

You'd think things like that would be obvious, but I recently picked up a 'dead' game cheap and the only problem was that both the sound and brightness were turned all of the way down.

-JM

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #71 on:** March 27, 2009, 11:00:07 pm »

Finally got around to installing the AR kit and I now have sound...but it's kind of a combination of static and a loud whistle. Now on to the cap kit for the monitor...

EDIT: And both the Player 1 and Player 2 buttons stay lit...that didn't happen before.

Level42 · « **Reply #72 on:** March 28, 2009, 06:59:35 am »

Is your 5V output on the AR-2 still OK after the cap-kit ? Sounds like your board is hanging.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #73 on:** March 28, 2009, 10:37:59 am »

I touched up the solder on the cap kit I installed and added a little more to the 5v. The whistle is gone, but I still have a large static sound, like trying to get a channel on an old TV and the signal just isn't quite strong enough.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #74 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:08:45 pm »

Quote from: Pop Culture Portal on March 27, 2009, 11:00:07 pm

EDIT: And both the Player 1 and Player 2 buttons stay lit...that didn't happen before.

Player buttons staying lit solid (not blinking) is an indication of an error on the game board.
Have you tried to get into test mode since the AR kit?

You may also want to carefully re-seat any socketed chips and connectors going to the game board.

Level42 · « **Reply #75 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:42:13 pm »

Quote from: Pop Culture Portal on March 28, 2009, 10:37:59 am

I touched up the solder on the cap kit I installed and added a little more to the 5v.

How much little more did you add to the 5V ? Measure between the test-points on the game PCB between GND and 5V. Get it as close as possible to 5.00V there.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #76 on:** March 29, 2009, 02:04:58 am »

Quote from: Level42 on March 28, 2009, 01:42:13 pm

Quote from: Pop Culture Portal on March 28, 2009, 10:37:59 am
I touched up the solder on the cap kit I installed and added a little more to the 5v.
How much little more did you add to the 5V ? Measure between the test-points on the game PCB between GND and 5V. Get it as close as possible to 5.00V there.

Another idiot question...I used the multimeter and found the GND and 5V points on the PCB and tested between the two and got a reading of 5.0 (if I did it right).

I just installed the cap kit for the monitor and there is no change. I did notice that one of the caps on the monitor board had been snapped off. I had hoped that putting a fresh, new cap in that spot would help in some way, but it didn't. Still no neck glow and I did check the brightness to make sure it wasn't turned all the way down, but that doesn't seem to be my problem.

Is there any way of checking to see if the noise is being caused by the AR or the PCB or both? I went back to make sure I installed the AR Repair Kit correctly and it looks like I did...polarity is right, correct caps/resistors. What should I try next?

SirPeale · « **Reply #77 on:** March 29, 2009, 07:04:01 am »

Quote from: Pop Culture Portal on March 29, 2009, 02:04:58 am

Is there any way of checking to see if the noise is being caused by the AR or the PCB or both?

Paper towel roll to your ear. Move it around. When it's loudest, you have your culprit.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #78 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:59:13 pm »

Starting to wonder if by sending 120v to that monitor has damaged other components. It's typically a 100v monitor.
Might want to start checking all the major transistor like the H.O.T. and the measure the B+ to see what it's doing.

Pop Culture Portal · « **Reply #79 on:** March 29, 2009, 04:43:07 pm »

Quote from: Peale on March 29, 2009, 07:04:01 am

Quote from: Pop Culture Portal on March 29, 2009, 02:04:58 am
Is there any way of checking to see if the noise is being caused by the AR or the PCB or both?

Paper towel roll to your ear. Move it around. When it's loudest, you have your culprit.

Rimshot!

And to think I almost ran upstairs to the kitchen to find said paper towel roll...

I'm beginning to wonder if I wouldn't be better off buying a GO7 monitor like what is supposed to be in the Dig Dug in the first place and finding a PCB that isn't jacked up as much as mine. I can see a Dig Dug image burned into the monitor, but I'll be damned as to how they got an image to the monitor in the first place with the wiring the way it is now. I've got a Joust project much further along than this Dig Dug project and I'm thinking about switching to that for awhile.


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