Help: Gorf Joystick Hack

[D_Harris]

I'm looking to do a temporary MAME control panel hack using an original Gorf joystick I just dug out, and I was wondering if it is plausible to patch it directly into MAME(via either a MiniPAC or Hydrogen controller).

Since the Gorf joystick has it's own PCB this may not be possible "electronically" speaking At least not for the left and right movements.(The game I'll be practicing on is Satan's Hollow).

The trigger should be possible because I can get continuity between two points on the joystick's PCB when the trigger is pressed. But when I set my DMM on Ohms I get some readings that tell me this is not as simples as just making a circuit connection for left and right. And I don't think that applying power will change this. But please correct me if I'm wrong. (The meter readings I get for the pins (at all five joystick positions) are as follows):

CENTER
----------
Pin #3  &  Pin #4 = 77.08
Pin #3  &  Pin #5 = 77.04
Pin #3  &  Pin #6 = 44.69 / 0.36

UP
---
Pin #3  &  Pin #4 = 77.07
Pin #3  &  Pin #5 = 77.03
Pin #3  &  Pin #6 = 44.69 / 0.36

DOWN
--------
Pin #3  &  Pin #4 = 77.06
Pin #3  &  Pin #5 = 77.02
Pin #3  &  Pin #6 = 44.69 / 0.36

LEFT
------
Pin #3  &  Pin #4 = 77.05
Pin #3  &  Pin #5 = 77.01
Pin #3  &  Pin #6 = 44.69 / 0.36

RIGHT
-------
Pin #3  &  Pin #4 = 77.04
Pin #3  &  Pin #5 = 77.00
Pin #3  &  Pin #6 = 44.69 / 0.36

Nevertheless, if all else fails I'll just have to go with a more mechanical solution, which would take more time.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

You get those readings because the circuit isn't wired properly.

You need to supply +5 volts to pin ten and ground pin 7. At that point you'll get predictable behavior.

I have two Gorf sticks and mapped out the pins at the Wiki. It is possible to wire it to a controller like the KeyWiz or the iPac because the LM339N is an open-collector IC and will happily sink the necessary voltage. Never looked into wiring the stick to any other controller however.

I've pushed the voltage as high as 9v (using a battery during testing) and according to the LM339N data sheet, you could go as high as +36v. I wouldn't dare push it past 9v though. Don't know if the rest of the circuit can take that kind of punishment.

[SavannahLion]

Oops, before I forget. When testing the powered circuit, don't use the OHM settings on your multimeter. Use the DC Voltage setting instead.

[D_Harris]

Oops, before I forget. When testing the powered circuit, don't use the OHM settings on your multimeter. Use the DC Voltage setting instead.

Well, I knew that. You just lost me on the other stuff. 

You said that the circuit is not "wired properly" which denotes that the joystick needs to be repaired first before I can do anything else, correct?

I know someone with Gorf and Tron joysticks, but arranging the deal and having either of them shipped to me would take too much time.(And I need to get this done pronto).

Neverthless, if a Gorf joystick that is "properly wired" can be connected to the "KeyWhiz" or "IPAC" then I can't see why it would not be the same for a "Hydrogen" controller. After all, don't all of them send +5V to the controls?

So basically the question is as follows. If +5V is applied to a "properly working" Gorf joystick, would there then exist a direct (wire only) "joystick pin" to "controller pin" combination that would allow me to move "Left" and "Right" without needing any other hardware?

Without power applied the only thing I have determined at this point is that the trigger will work with any controller because of the continuity I achieved when pressing it.

BTW. My Gorf joystick only has six pins for for direction and trigger on it's PCB, so I'm not certain what you mean by "+5 volts to pin ten and ground pin 7".

Ok, I just check the pin-outs at http://www.crazykong.com/pins/Gorf.pin.txt

My Gorf joystick only has 6 pins for J2. Pins 1 to 3 do not exist. (I added a third pic in my first post to show this).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[u_rebelscum]

OP, did you follow the wiki link?

You said that the circuit is not "wired properly" which denotes that the joystick needs to be repaired first before I can do anything else, correct?

It means you need ground & 5V+ wired (correctly of course) while taking measurements, or you won't get valid readings.  Only if your stick has the gnd & pwr wired, and you still get bad readings (& after tripple checking it really is wired correctly), then you can think your stick's board is bad.

[SavannahLion]

Just to double check, did you check the Wiki link I gave you? It outlines the pins in order.

Neverthless, if a Gorf joystick that is "properly wired" can be connected to the "KeyWhiz" or "IPAC" then I can't see why it would not be the same for a "Hydrogen" controller. After all, don't all of them send +5V to the controls?

Short answer is, yes.

Long answer is;

Not sure why you're missing the first three pins. The pins outlined in blue in the attached photo are pins, in order, 1, 3, 4, 5 (there is no pin 2) of J1. The pins outlined in red are the three pins you seem to be missing. Yellow is what you have. With the Red/Yellow outline you'll count down 1-3, no 4, 5-10. Flip the board over and note which pins have their corresponding solder points.

Yes, the controller boards do have +5 on their control pins, but this is usually a signal line, not a supply line. You'll need to supply clean +5v from somewhere like the USB bus or the appropriate pin from a power supply. Even a simple 5v wall wart for a cell phone works well (I add a regulator when I'm testing regardless since the GORF sticks are so old).

Neverthless, if a Gorf joystick that is "properly wired" can be connected to the "KeyWhiz" or "IPAC" then I can't see why it would not be the same for a "Hydrogen" controller. After all, don't all of them send +5V to the controls?

The short answer is that most controllers like the KeyWiz probably isn't going to have enough amperage from those pins to drive something like the GORF stick. That isn't how it's meant to be used anyways and I can't think of any way to power and detect the GORF stick directly from a KeyWiz (The LED-Wiz+GP might work though) control line.

Supplying +5v to most of those pins isn't going to do what you want anyways. The way it works is that the GORF directional pins actually put out a +5v signal. When you pull the stick in a particular direction, the voltage is pulled down to or near 0v. Conveniently enough, this is exactly what controllers like the KeyWiz look for. It too puts out +5v signal and when this signal is pulled to 0v (or grounded via a switch), then it registered as a button press. The two seem to play nicely with each other. So you need to supply +5/ground to pins 10/7 and the GORF stick will be functional.

I don't know anything about the "Hydrogen" controller or how it works so I won't dare say it works with the GORF stick.

[D_Harris]

I did check the Wiki link. That's why I noticed that there are three "missing" pins. But the PCB is clean and it doesn't look as though there were ever any pins there. And looking closely at the PCB, those three empty holes(1, 2, and 3) from J2 are connected to their corresponding solder points(5, 4, and 3) at J1.

But since J2 obviously goes the the game PCB, I can't see how the trigger ever could have worked.

Nevertheless, I assume that I'd have to solder leads to the empty holes 3 and 7 at J2, Solder leads to solder points 1 and 3, or just find a way to connect directly to the connector for J1

Now since there doesn't seem to be a any way to get the "Left" and "Right" of a powered Gorf Joystick to work with a controller, I decided to bypass the joystick PCB altogether using two leaf switches and electrical tape. (See pic).

And I'll clean up a band saw stand I have which just happens to have an opening just big enough to fit the joystick.

I know it's ugly, but I did say it would be a temporary hack. 

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

I did check the Wiki link. That's why I noticed that there are three "missing" pins. But the PCB is clean and it doesn't look as though there were ever any pins there. And looking closely at the PCB, those three empty holes(1, 2, and 3) from J2 are connected to their corresponding solder points(5, 4, and 3) at J1.

But since J2 obviously goes the the game PCB, I can't see how the trigger ever could have worked.

Nevertheless, I assume that I'd have to solder leads to the empty holes 3 and 7 at J2, Solder leads to solder points 1 and 3, or just find a way to connect directly to the connector for J1

That glob of wires on J1 might not be original. Looks like there's two connectors there. It's possible J1 was simply bypassed.

Now since there doesn't seem to be a any way to get the "Left" and "Right" of a powered Gorf Joystick to work with a controller, I decided to bypass the joystick PCB altogether using two leaf switches and electrical tape. (See pic).

I explained it to you twice. Supply +5 and ground to pins 10 and 7. Since pins 1-3 aren't there, you just adjust your count accordingly.

But hey, you found your own solution, it works, and that's what this place is all about.

[D_Harris]

I did check the Wiki link. That's why I noticed that there are three "missing" pins. But the PCB is clean and it doesn't look as though there were ever any pins there. And looking closely at the PCB, those three empty holes(1, 2, and 3) from J2 are connected to their corresponding solder points(5, 4, and 3) at J1.

But since J2 obviously goes the the game PCB, I can't see how the trigger ever could have worked.

Nevertheless, I assume that I'd have to solder leads to the empty holes 3 and 7 at J2, Solder leads to solder points 1 and 3, or just find a way to connect directly to the connector for J1

That glob of wires on J1 might not be original. Looks like there's two connectors there. It's possible J1 was simply bypassed.

Not at all. I got continuity between pins #1 and #3 of J1 when I pressed the trigger.

Now since there doesn't seem to be a any way to get the "Left" and "Right" of a powered Gorf Joystick to work with a controller, I decided to bypass the joystick PCB altogether using two leaf switches and electrical tape. (See pic).

I explained it to you twice. Supply +5 and ground to pins 10 and 7. Since pins 1-3 aren't there, you just adjust your count accordingly.

Yes, I know that. It would be a simple matter to get +5V from my computer power connector.

But unless I can just attach pins #5 and #6 from J2 to the "Left" and "Right" on my MiniPAC (or Hydrogen) controller I wouldn't know what else to do.

But hey, you found your own solution, it works, and that's what this place is all about.

My way just seemed to be more simple than trying to figure out what might not be possible.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[SavannahLion]

I did check the Wiki link. That's why I noticed that there are three "missing" pins. But the PCB is clean and it doesn't look as though there were ever any pins there. And looking closely at the PCB, those three empty holes(1, 2, and 3) from J2 are connected to their corresponding solder points(5, 4, and 3) at J1.

But since J2 obviously goes the the game PCB, I can't see how the trigger ever could have worked.

Nevertheless, I assume that I'd have to solder leads to the empty holes 3 and 7 at J2, Solder leads to solder points 1 and 3, or just find a way to connect directly to the connector for J1

That glob of wires on J1 might not be original. Looks like there's two connectors there. It's possible J1 was simply bypassed.

Not at all. I got continuity between pins #1 and #3 of J1 when I pressed the trigger.

That's not what I meant. That signal has to get to the game PCB somehow. It looks like the photo sports extra wiring at the connector on J1. So even though the connector is "plugged" in, that signal isn't being utilized from J2 (no pins). So that small section between J1/J2 is being bypassed for some reason. A broken trace, cost overhead reduction, a lazy assembly man on a Friday, a hung over operator on a Monday, who knows? 

[D_Harris]

I did check the Wiki link. That's why I noticed that there are three "missing" pins. But the PCB is clean and it doesn't look as though there were ever any pins there. And looking closely at the PCB, those three empty holes(1, 2, and 3) from J2 are connected to their corresponding solder points(5, 4, and 3) at J1.

But since J2 obviously goes the the game PCB, I can't see how the trigger ever could have worked.

Nevertheless, I assume that I'd have to solder leads to the empty holes 3 and 7 at J2, Solder leads to solder points 1 and 3, or just find a way to connect directly to the connector for J1

That glob of wires on J1 might not be original. Looks like there's two connectors there. It's possible J1 was simply bypassed.

Not at all. I got continuity between pins #1 and #3 of J1 when I pressed the trigger.

That's not what I meant. That signal has to get to the game PCB somehow. It looks like the photo sports extra wiring at the connector on J1. So even though the connector is "plugged" in, that signal isn't being utilized from J2 (no pins). So that small section between J1/J2 is being bypassed for some reason. A broken trace, cost overhead reduction, a lazy assembly man on a Friday, a hung over operator on a Monday, who knows? 

There are four leads that come down from the joystick. Two are for Lamp, one for trigger, and one for ground. So there is nothing extra there. But of course that still doesn't explain how they used the lamp and trigger with pins #1, #2, and #3 at J2. (Perhaps this joystick was never used for Gorf).

Anyway, by just running the trigger and ground to the appropriate leads from my controller I'll have "Fire" capability.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.