Author Topic: Nanao MS720L (Kortek) - Sync Problems ? (Read 6498 times)

DarkSide · « **on:** November 23, 2008, 07:20:03 am »

Hi guys.

Just got a new monitor for my Sega hang on bootleg, but there are some problems.

Here is a picture:

Tried to connect both sync wires (White and yellow), and only white or yellow, and the picture dosent change.

Is it a sync problem, or is the chassis broken ?

grantspain · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:07:22 am »

it looks like a game board video error,did it work before you put the monitor in?

DarkSide · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:09:43 am »

Yes, it worked perfectly with a old Hantarex MTC 900/900E

The game runs in composite sync, it only got 1 sync wire.

grantspain · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:24:34 am »

ah right i see,have you tried the horizontal hold yet? and how many sync pins does the nanao have?

DarkSide · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:47:52 am »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 08:24:34 am

ah right i see,have you tried the horizontal hold yet? and how many sync pins does the nanao have?

Ya i tried the horizontal hold, dident help.

Sync pins ?

Its this chassis http://www.jomac.net.au/images/Chassis/Kortek_Copy%20of%20Nanao%20MS720L.JPG

grantspain · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2008, 09:13:28 am »

have you tried the sync switch yet

DarkSide · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2008, 09:15:40 am »

Nega and Posi switch ?

Yes

Its in the nega pos atm.

grantspain · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2008, 09:17:24 am »

any other pots on the chassis,like slightly hidden-i can see 2 on the pic

DarkSide · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2008, 09:27:21 am »

The hidden are:

Xray adjust
B+ Adjust
H-Sub Posi
V-Lin

grantspain · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2008, 11:22:03 am »

none of those will help
where have you connected each wire for the video?

DarkSide · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2008, 11:32:41 am »

The wires are connected right.

http://yousuck.dk/sega/DSC02782.JPG

Red to red, green to green, blue to blue, ground to ground, and h/vsync to sync

Just connected my old half broken hantarex monitor to the same wires, so im sure the game is working.

Even connected my mame pc to the kortek monitor, and got a picture, it was jumpy, but i could se the desktop icons.

grantspain · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2008, 12:54:34 pm »

so your old monitor works fine on the hang on and the new monitor works fine with a mame pc

DarkSide · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2008, 01:07:45 pm »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 12:54:34 pm

so your old monitor works fine on the hang on and the new monitor works fine with a mame pc

Yes.

Or fine and fine, as i wrote, i could see the desktop icons, the picture needed more finetuning, but it was atleast displaying a picture.

I just need to get the new monitor working in my Sega Hang on, the hantarex is broken.

grantspain · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:13:02 pm »

this is very confusing,if the new monitor works with mame then it works
still looks like video error to me from the game board

DarkSide · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:15:56 pm »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 02:13:02 pm

this is very confusing,if the new monitor works with mame then it works
still looks like video error to me from the game board

The game board is working fine, dident get a perfect picture on the new using my mame pc, but i just think the resolution was to high.

Dont know if the new monitor works with composite sync ?

grantspain · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:20:18 pm »

yes it works with comp sync on pin 5 and switch to negative

DarkSide · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:29:06 pm »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 02:20:18 pm

yes it works with comp sync on pin 5 and switch to negative

Hm i guess that monitor just don't work with that game pcb then.

grantspain · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:31:33 pm »

that monitor will work with any 15khz game pcb
i think your game board is the problem but difficult to say as i can't work out your fault finding process

DarkSide · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:34:51 pm »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 02:31:33 pm

that monitor will work with any 15khz game pcb
i think your game board is the problem but difficult to say as i can't work out your fault finding process

If the game board is the problem, why does it work fine with a Hantarex MTC900 and a Hantarex MTC900E ?

Only thing there is different are the RGB cable to the chassis

grantspain · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:39:36 pm »

so you tested it today with both a 900 and 900e chassis and the picture was fine

there are some strange possibilities,if the sync signal is little low for the nanao then that may cause the problem also check your +5 volt on the game board

DarkSide · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2008, 02:55:35 pm »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 02:39:36 pm

so you tested it today with both a 900 and 900e chassis and the picture was fine

there are some strange possibilities,if the sync signal is little low for the nanao then that may cause the problem also check your +5 volt on the game board

Only tested with a 900 today, and yes the picture was fine.

The 5 volt is at 5.09

If the sync signal is to low, any way to raise it then ?

grantspain · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:07:05 pm »

try linking the sync wire and putting it on to one of the colour signals to see if you get a lock

DarkSide · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:17:31 pm »

This is what i get with the hsync wire connected to the red color.

grantspain · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:24:45 pm »

sorry i edited my post,put the sync back in the plug and then link a colour to it

DarkSide · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:26:20 pm »

Quote from: grantspain on November 23, 2008, 03:24:45 pm

sorry i edited my post,put the sync back in the plug and then link a colour to it

Just tried that, i get a red screen, with some flicker (Linked to the red color)

grantspain · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:33:24 pm »

does the sync switch have any affect now with the sync linked

DarkSide · « **Reply #26 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:36:27 pm »

Only the same as before.

But still cant get a sync lock.

grantspain · « **Reply #27 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:39:04 pm »

o.k just compared your chassis to jomac one,they are slightly different
your sync should be connect to pin 6 the white wire of the chassis video plug

DarkSide · « **Reply #28 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:49:53 pm »

With sync connected to the white wire:

With sync linked to the red wire:

grantspain · « **Reply #29 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:55:36 pm »

are you using the same loom for the hantarex monitor?

DarkSide · « **Reply #30 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:57:42 pm »

Yes, the only thing switched is the RGB cable to the monitor, hantarex is using a different one.

grantspain · « **Reply #31 on:** November 23, 2008, 03:59:55 pm »

where do you have the interconnection?and can you post a pic please

DarkSide · « **Reply #32 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:02:07 pm »

Its connected here: http://yousuck.dk/sega/DSC02782.JPG

Down in that white one, im not sure what the right english word is, sorry.

grantspain · « **Reply #33 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:08:46 pm »

no i meant can you take a photo of where you join the video signal wires from the new loom to the old loom

DarkSide · « **Reply #34 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:11:00 pm »

Thats in that white one, i just removed the old, and connected the new.

grantspain · « **Reply #35 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:17:29 pm »

yeah i was trying to see where you connected the new loom to your game board

DarkSide · « **Reply #36 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:24:08 pm »

Sorry, im not sure what you mean ?

The only thing different between the hantarex and the Kortek, is the monitor cable (RGB, Ground, Sync)

But its color coded, so i just removed the old one from the white thing, and put the new one in.

Thats all ive changed, if i connect the hantarex cable and the monitor agian, the picture is fine.

grantspain · « **Reply #37 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:27:31 pm »

you should have 5 wires for video red,green,blue,ground and sync from the game board
can you show a pic where these connect to the new video loom
you must have had to join the wires together somewhere

DarkSide · « **Reply #38 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:33:03 pm »

They connect here:

http://yousuck.dk/DSC02793.JPG

They was not mounted when the picture was taken, but they are now.

DarkSide · « **Reply #39 on:** November 23, 2008, 04:58:57 pm »

Here connected: http://yousuck.dk/DSC02796.JPG

grantspain · « **Reply #40 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:06:49 pm »

how do you know which wire is the sync and which is the ground

DarkSide · « **Reply #41 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:18:26 pm »

White with black stripes is ground, black is sync.

I dont know why, but when following the wires it looks like sync is connected together with the +12 volt, but that was working fine with the hantarex.

grantspain · « **Reply #42 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:26:59 pm »

that don't sound right to me and i think the sync is the white/black wire and the ground is the black

show me where you think the +12 is connected to the sync

DarkSide · « **Reply #43 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:30:39 pm »

Black is sync.

Can you see the yellow wire in the connector, thats sync from then gameboard, its connected together with a blue and white wire, the blue runs to at few lamps in the control panel, and its connected to +12 volt from the powersupply.

The black wire where sync is connected is also comming from the lamps.

grantspain · « **Reply #44 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:37:57 pm »

here's the problem alright
yellow is almost always a +12 line and it makes sense it goes to the coin door bulbs
black is always a ground and also makes sense

your sync should not connect to +12

please disconnect all the video signal loom from that connector and then send another photo

DarkSide · « **Reply #45 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:42:08 pm »

Thats just not like it is in my cab.

Yellow is sync from the gameboard, and black in the connector is also sync, and im sure checked with my scope.

I dont know why its made like it is, but if i connect the hantarex there is picture with the wires connected as is.

Black is ground, comming from the lamps, its a wiring nightmare.

I just need to get a picture on that monitor, take a few pics and redo all the wires in the cab.

grantspain · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:46:25 pm »

well i think the black/white is your sync and the black next to it is the video ground

you do not have two syncs

DarkSide · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:58:03 pm »

Well.

These are to 2 game connectors.

http://yousuck.dk/DSC02798.JPG
http://yousuck.dk/DSC02799.JPG

grantspain · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:02:52 pm »

still think i am correct
have you tried that yet?

DarkSide · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:10:51 pm »

Just tried.

With sync on white/black, and ground on black, i dont even get a picture on the monitor.

grantspain · « **Reply #50 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:12:34 pm »

right ok,there is some nasty wiring in there thats for sure
now reconnect the video ground to white/black and leave the sync off

DarkSide · « **Reply #51 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:13:39 pm »

Done, what now ?

Yellow must be sync from the gameboard then, i hate bootlegs PCB's

grantspain · « **Reply #52 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:22:47 pm »

this is the problem now,you see
going on the theory that the sync must be on the connector with the rgb then we must look at that
strange for the sync to be away from the others and if its +12 reading then its not sync for sure
i would look at some of the other pins on that connector(not the red as i think thats +5 and not the black as i think thats ground)
there are many other pins there,meter them and see if any of them are getting signal and what level
trouble with this being a copy board is that it don't match the original wiring

DarkSide · « **Reply #53 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:26:52 pm »

There is just one problem.

If yellow isn't sync, why did it work with the hantarex monitor ?

A monitor doesn't run without a sync signal + my scope says that yellow is sync.

grantspain · « **Reply #54 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:30:06 pm »

well if your sync is yellow it should not read +12 volts or be connected to anything apart from the sync video input

DarkSide · « **Reply #55 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:33:09 pm »

I dont know, dahm bootleg ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

I still think that the new monitor is broken

grantspain · « **Reply #56 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:34:30 pm »

so have you connected the sync to yellow with no other wires connected

good point about your old monitor wiring btw

DarkSide · « **Reply #57 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:38:55 pm »

Yes i did try to connect the yellow directly to the white sync wire from the chassis, didn't change anything.

Guess i need to connect my mame pc again, and then try to get a good picture on the monitor just so i can see if it really works.

grantspain · « **Reply #58 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:41:36 pm »

yes good idea,you have a nightmare scenario whereby the two main items are not known to be 100% working
proving the monitor with another video source is the right way to go with this

whats the story of the bootleg board?

DarkSide · « **Reply #59 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:47:16 pm »

Don't know much about that board, there is a picture here: http://yousuck.dk/DSC02801.JPG

I'm gonna wire up a vga to arcade monitor cable tomorrow, thanks for your help so far

grantspain · « **Reply #60 on:** November 23, 2008, 07:03:30 pm »

just make sure you feed the monitor a 15khz signal or you will probably kill the hot
you can feed the monitor a 31khz signal for a few seconds but no more,that may be just enough time to see if you get a sync lock but obviously you will have a double image

DarkSide · « **Reply #61 on:** November 24, 2008, 05:18:54 am »

No problem getting a sync lock when using the mame pc..

http://yousuck.dk/DSC02802.JPG, but the picture looks pretty bad, maybe the tube is dying ?

grantspain · « **Reply #62 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:26:41 am »

hmmm,i know the nanao and hantarex have different signal input ranges
the hantarex can accept 1v to 3v signal whereas the nanao only accepts 3v
perhaps this is the problem,also i know that if you use a nanao from a vga card using soft15k then you also need a video signal amp to get a good picture

i think you getting closer to the problem,this could be a simple matter of the signal not strong enough for the sync

now you have to decide what to do from here-options being getting a video amp(more expense and not guaranteed to work) or using a different monitor

DarkSide · « **Reply #63 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:37:16 am »

I guess the only option is to trash that Sega Hang on, a new monitor is not an option, its hard getting arcade monitors in denmark.

Unless if you can tell me if i can use my old hantarex MTC900E chassis on the new tube ?

grantspain · « **Reply #64 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:42:01 am »

depends on the yoke reading,you would need to meter out the yoke
horizontal yoke is red and blue
vertical yoke is yellow and green

do you have the old 900 tube to compare to?

grantspain · « **Reply #65 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:43:36 am »

you could also just try upping the 5volts on the power supply so that you get 5.15 at the board as i have once seen this cure a boot video problem similar

DarkSide · « **Reply #66 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:45:30 am »

Yes, the old tube is a VideoColor A51-421X, and the new is a Samsung 5108B22

Upped the 5 volt to 5.18, still no luck.

grantspain · « **Reply #67 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:04:54 am »

right o.k then the next step is to read the yoke,do you have a multimeter?
even better do you have an inductance meter?

what you need to do is set your multimeter to ohms and read the red and blue of the yoke for horizontal
and read the yellow and green for vertical on the new nanao tube

then the hantarex is different colours but you you will see which pair is which and you should get similar readings

also you need to check the tube neck pinout and shape are the same

grantspain · « **Reply #68 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:08:35 am »

To enable you to match a chassis to a yoke you will need to have two types of meter,a standard multimeter for the resistance and an lcr/inductance meter for the inductance

Guessing yoke readings is not a good thing,an unmatched chassis will fry the horizontal output stage and in the extreme could kill the yoke

Lcr meters are always available on ebay at very reasonable prices

You need to read both resistance and inductance of each of the two parts of the yoke,vertical and horizontal.
Normally you find red and blue is the horizontal coil,green and yellow the vertical

Therefore you would set the multimeter to ohms and place one probe to the red and the other probe to the blue to give horizontal resistance and so on.

DarkSide · « **Reply #69 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:12:42 am »

Only got a multimeter, and its a no go, H is 3.0 on both yokes, but V is 14.8 on the Videocolor, and 58 on the samsung.

Then my only option is getting that Kortek chassis working with the Sega board.

grantspain · « **Reply #70 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:23:43 am »

so thats a high impedence yoke on the samsung

the chassis would need modification to fit

so maybe a way to boost the sync signal is the way to go now

you know the only time i saw a similar problem was when i had a k7000 chassis and the 50/60 hz pot was slightly out
now i wonder but doubt that the horizontal sub pot will make any affect

DarkSide · « **Reply #71 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:34:04 am »

No effect on adjusting the h sub pot.

grantspain · « **Reply #72 on:** November 24, 2008, 10:41:59 am »

i am out of suggestions,all i can think now is some kind of sync boost
there are a few peeps on this forum that i think could advise-ken layton,qrz and rickn
maybe worth posting a new thread

DarkSide · « **Reply #73 on:** November 24, 2008, 10:44:28 am »

Maybe ya.

Thanks for all your help, im gonna try a new thread, on how to boost the sync signal.


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