Mitsubishi Monitor - Soft-15Khz help please.

[Hoopz]

I have a Mitsubishi AM-3501R presentation monitor.  Here are the specs:

• 600 lines of composite video resolution
• 640 x 480 RGB resolution
• Accepts input signal 15.5kHz-35kHz horizontal and 40Hz-70Hz vertical
• Input configurations:
   3 Composite video BNC,
   1 S-video,
   1 RGBS BNC,
   Analog RGB D-sub 25-pin,
   TTL RGB D-sub 9-pin,
   8-pin VTR
• Composite one and RGBS BNC have looping outputs

I have tried two different DVD players hooked up via BNC RGB with two different sets of cables.  No matter what combo I try, the screen is VERY green.  On the front of the monitor where an LED shows what input is being used, there are two different selections for analog sync.  The options are "Separate - On Green".  The display only shows when the LED shows "On". 

I've made sure that the cables are secure in the BNC connectors.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[MonMotha]

Most DVD players output YPbPr component, not RGB.  They are electrically compatible (assuming the monitor supports sync on green, which is likely), but applying YPbPr to an RGB input will result in a very green picture - exactly what you have.

See if the monitor has an option to switch to YPbPr on the component input or (unlikely) if your DVD player supports RGB output.  If not, you'll need to either use a different video source (such as a computer) or get a colorspace converter.

[Jack Burton]

I have this exact monitor and it does not support YpBpR in any form.  Use the S-video port for connecting dvd players and such. 

Additionally, do not connect a ps3 to this monitor and trick it to display in RGB 480p over component cables.  I'm not sure what it is about using a ps3 in this way, but this monitor, and many others I've tried it with don't like the ps3's video signal and it can damage the monitor over time.

What you should do with this monitor is connect a pc using an RGBHV cable.  Get a 6' one like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/D-sub-15-pin-VGA-To-5-BNC-RGB-RGBS-RGBHV-Video-Adapter-Cable-/251075910301?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a754a5a9d



From there you can use your PC to play DVD's with proper color.  Although I don't think this monitor really makes the best source for watching movies.  It will get the job done, but it really shines when used for playing games in their native resolution.

[Hoopz]

MonMotha - thanks for the help.  I appreciate your time.

Jack - I bought that cable after your PM last week and have tried using it with my PC.  I installed Soft-15Khz, set the desktop to 640 x 480 and restarted the PC with it hooked to the Mitsubishi monitor.

I am attaching a couple of pics.  I am obviously not doing something correct.  My video card is an ATI 9600 Pro and I'm using the recommended Catalyst 6.5 drivers.

I don't see windows booting but if I hit the Start button, I hear the monitor physically make a few clicking sounds and I can see a menu that looks somewhat like this.  This is actually the My Computer folder I think.

I've adjusted various settings on the monitor but haven't found anything that works.  It is set at 75 Ohms mode on the BNC panel.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.   

[Jack Burton]

Hmm, that looks like improper sync. 

Check to make sure you don't have the sync cables mixed up.  It is very easy to do that.  Also make sure that you are on the proper RGB separate sync mode, not the sync-on-green mode.

This monitor supports 31khz.  You can uninstall soft 15khz and try running 640x480 at 60hz just to see if you can get a good picture, and then progress from there.

[Hoopz]

I was on sync on green so changing that fixed the problem.  Thanks for the wisdom.  Time to fire up a couple of games to see how they look.

Again, thanks!

[Jack Burton]

Very cool. 

You can try soft 15khz and some games now, but there's going to be one little hiccup: your games won't fully fit the screen. 

They'll come extremely close, but using the default soft 15khz modelines I was never able to get games to stretch to fill the entire horizontal space of the screen.  This can be easily remedied by using custom modelines, so we'll address that issue when you get to it. 

[rCadeGaming]

Additionally, do not connect a ps3 to this monitor and trick it to display in RGB 480p over component cables.  I'm not sure what it is about using a ps3 in this way, but this monitor, and many others I've tried it with don't like the ps3's video signal and it can damage the monitor over time.

You can't get RGB out of a PS3 (or PS1/2) through component cables.  If you set the PS3 to RGB, it will output RGB color signals to the three cables, but you won't be getting any sync; it doesn't output sync on green.  You need another wire for sync, so you need a custom cable.  The easiest thing to do is hack a SCART cable.

The only output from the PS3 containing sync when it's set to RGB is the composite video line, so you have to run that through an LM1881 or similar to get raw composite sync. 

[Jack Burton]

When I said component cable I meant connecting with this kind of cable with an extra composite video line built in:



These are pretty common, so I wanted to give a fair warning about them and this particular unit.

This monitor accepts composite video for sync.  480i looks mostly fine,  but 480p is all kinds of messed up.  The screen is way too wide, and very side-shifted.  Also, I think it causes the screen to have strange flashes of brightness, and creates a buzzing sound coming from the back of the monitor.  There's something going wrong there.  Maybe a sync stripper would fix it, but otherwise I'd avoid it. 

[rCadeGaming]

Ok I see.  Well that's a bit of a different situation; a lot of component cables don't have a composite video line, and a lot of monitors will need raw sync anyway.

That's strange that your monitor works with this in 480i only.  After running the composite video through an LM1881, it works great for me in 480i or 480p (or 240p as well when using a PS1/2).  That monitor must be using a sync separator circuit that's less flexible with different timings.

[Jack Burton]

It is rather odd.  I will add that using component cables with a ps2 and in 480p RGB sync-on-green looks fantastic, so it's probably just the ps3 or something weird about using composite video for sync. 

[rCadeGaming]

Sorry if you already told me this somewhere, but what region do you live in?

If that monitor, or any of your other displays will accept raw composite sync, try building an LM1881 circuit.  The parts will be only few dollars.   This is the standard circuit for an LM1881, which will work fine:

http://nootropicdesign.com/ve/downloads/LM1881.pdf

It can be powered using the 5 volts coming out of the Playstation (look up the pinout and hack up an RGB SCART cable if need be), so no external power supply needed.  The resistor and capacitor to ground on pin 6 are required, but pins 3, 5, and 7 are totally optional, and can be left unconnected.  Input composite video through a capacitor on pin 2 and clean composite sync comes out on pin 1.

[Jack Burton]

I live in the US so SCART cables are extremely rare.  I would have to order one.  The monitor will accept composite sync if that comes out to the same thing as combined sync, since it says H/H+V on the back next to the H sync connector.   

I personally have no real need for connecting a Playstation 1/2/3 to this monitor, I was only mentioning it because of the potentially harmful nature of the connection.  I just use a ps2 connected to a component capable TV for ps1 stuff, and the others I don't even really care about that much right now.  I know component isn't RGB, but it's so close that I'm not going the extra mile to get it on this particular system. 

The system I do care about getting connected to this is the SNES.  I might get one of these

http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc.html

and source a SCART cable for SNES. 

and Hoopz:

You can try these modes with Soft 15khz.

Modeline "256x224" 4.909 256 274 299 312 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x240" 4.909 256 269 294 312 240 244 247 262  -hsync -vsync   
Modeline "320x240" 6.167 320 336 367 392 240 244 247 262  -hsync -vsync

and see how they work for you. 

[rCadeGaming]

Composite sync and combined sync are the same thing, just two different terms.

Component is basically equivalent in quality to RGB, it just communicates colorspace differently.

I live in the US as well.  SCART cables are cheap on eBay.  I would recommend the seller "retro console accessories."  She sells high quality cables, and you can message her about getting anything she may not currently have listed.  I got a custom order of SCART cables and replaced the SCART connectors with d-subs of my own pinout.

If you pick up a SCART cable, look for one listed as a "raw sync" cable.  This means it will be wired for composite sync instead of composite video as sync, which is often required.  Apparently it's not for your monitor, but it will probably give better results.  Most systems other than Playstation output composite sync natively, including the SNES.

Don't blow your money on that adapter.  30 pounds plus shipping from Europe is a lot of US$.  You could wire your scart cables to db-15hd (vga) connectors and plug them into this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10203&cs_id=1020304&p_id=6654&seq=1&format=2

This would also allow you to switch consoles with a d-sub switch if you want.

Console pinouts:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm

VGA pinout:

http://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15_pinout.shtml

You can wire C sync to the H sync pin and leave V sync disconnected.

[Jack Burton]

RE: making my own cable

That's probably what I'd end up doing.  I tend to spend very, very little or no money at all on gaming, and especially when I can just make the thing at home.  I already have several DB15> RGBHV cables that I grabbed from work years ago when I surplussed a dozen workstations that used big fixed frequency monitors. 

It's hard to think about how much stuff I threw away that I might could have used now.  If I had known how scarce -good- CD burners would become, widescreen CRT monitors, adjustable power supplies, or oscilloscopes with vector displays.  There were also various breakout boards perfect for making custom cables or joysticks. 

I got this monitor from the University surplus auction too.  $30 for two pallets of massive 37" monitors.  Sadly, 7 of the 8 were from the Megaview series and had the front control panel ripped off of them.  I knew a remote or control unit could still make them useable, but I was pressed for time and space, so they had to be left behind.  I could only take the oldest one, the slightly smaller AM-3501R,  but it worked perfectly and I was very happy with it! 

[MonMotha]

It's hard to think about how much stuff I threw away that I might could have used now.  If I had known how scarce -good- CD burners would become, widescreen CRT monitors, adjustable power supplies, or oscilloscopes with vector displays.  There were also various breakout boards perfect for making custom cables or joysticks. 

Pretty much OT at this point, but there's a reason I tell people they can pry my Plexwriter 16/10/40A from my cold, dead hands.  That thing does great burns on any crummy media I throw at it.

Going down the list, I also have 3x GDM-FW900s, and at least one analog scope capable of being used as a real vector display, though I actually use it as a scope.  I guess I guessed right...

[rCadeGaming]

Wow I had no idea that a good burner was rare.  I've been using the same one, I think it's an LG, for over 12 years, so I guess I took it for granted.  It works fine for music cds and Dreamcast games, so I guess it's alright.

A scope is nice to have; I have a friend with one.  We mainly use it to troubleshoot video circuits by checking peak to peak signal levels and looking at the waveform of the sync signals.

This train is way off the tracks!  Sorry Hoopz 

[Hoopz]

No apology needed.  I appreciate the help in the thread and everyone providing a lot of technical info.  Most of it is way over my head but I'm slowing learning.