Sleep Apnea

[mountain]

I have struggled with snoring and gasping for air when I sleep for the last 5-7 years or so. It has slowly gotten worse over the years. My family has been on me about seeing a doctor about it because of the health concerns involved. I decided to finally do something about it. Last night I went to a sleep lab and had my sleep monitored. The tech said that when a patient struggles with breathing and their oxygen drops to unsafe levels, they like to get a jump on the diagnosis and put on a CPAP device to help with breathing as soon as they determine how bad the problem is. Apparently I have such severe sleep apnea that they woke me up after 1 1/2 hours to put the CPAP machine on me. It is a device that forces air down your airway you keep it open, sort of like an air stint. After getting used to it, I fell asleep and was able to actually fall into a deep sleep for the first time in years. It looks like after I see my sleep specialist again I will be coming home with one of these machines. It kind of sucks that I will have to use one every night for the rest of my life but at least my quality of life should drastically improve.

Has anyone here been diagnosed with this condition?

[hatrick]

I have sleep apnea as well and have been using a CPAP machine for almost 2 years now. Mine has made a huge improvement in my quality of life, but I still have a long way to go. I have my pressure adjusted as high as my body will tolerate, and it's not enough.
For me, that means I still get tired and fall asleep during the day. The only option I had left was to use the CPAP at night to get a decent amount of sleep, then take a perscription drug everyday to keep me awake. Not an ideal situation, by far, as the sleep apnea, and associated lack of sleep, is still killing my brain cells and hurting my heart, etc.
I'm hoping to one day find a real solution that does not involve drugs 
It is a challenge to get used to wearing a mask all night, but at least you can pretend you are Darth Vader or something! It's worth it in the end.
.

[shardian]

My mother-in-law uses a CPAP. My wife has went thru 2 sleep studies, but she is considered 'borderline', so she never got a CPAP.

[ChadTower]

I have had sleep apnea issues for years.  Keep in mind sleep apnea itself is not a condition - it is a symptom of a condition.  Think of it like a cold and sneezing.  You don't have sneezes, you have a cold that causes you to sneeze, and ideally you will treat the cold rather than the sneezes.

First thing you want to find out is what type of sleep apnea you are experiencing.  The two basic types are Obstructive and Central.  Obstructive is much easier to treat as it is a mechanical condition - your airway closes off when you fall asleep, you stop breathing, and your fight/flight reflex kicks in.  Central is much harder to deal with because the issue isn't your airway it is that your nervous system is sending inconsistent breathing signals while you're asleep.

Depending on which type you have you may not have to spend the rest of your life on CPAP.

[protokatie]

I wake up once or twice a week unable to breathe. I have to punch my chest. It isnt a fun experience. It feels like I am being drowned.

Too bad I can't afford such things like medical care.... (Or even an examination)

[ChadTower]

Sleep apnea isn't intermittent like that.  It is pretty much an every time you sleep proposition.

[shardian]

Unfortunately, sleep studies usually aren't covered for us insurance folk either. Back then, my wife was covered under her mom's PEIA insurance. Her mom had to pay like $2k both times!

[ChadTower]

I had to get my doctor to prescribe the sleep study and also have the sleep center, sleep technician, and the doctor evaluating the study all cleared by my insurance before they would cover it.  Took quite a while.

[ChadTower]

1 - lose weight

Not all sleep apnea folks are huge fat people like some would have you believe.  Some are, of course, but there are a lot of folks ~22% and under bodyfat who have this problem. 

Weight is actually not a factor at all in Central Sleep Apnea.

It would be a lot more useful to ask this guy for a reasonable bodyfat % before assuming he's just a fatass with a fat throat.

[hatrick]

Sleep apnea isn't intermittent like that.  It is pretty much an every time you sleep proposition.

I'm not disagreeing with you Chad, however, it can SEEM intermittent like that. You don't always awaken fully to where you are aware of the issue. I have severe sleep apnea and for years before I was diagnosed, I would occasionally wake up in the middle of the night and be fully aware that I couldn't breathe and be gasping for air. Most nights, I would be oblivious to the problem, although I would be exhausted when I woke up.

Sleep studies are expensive, however, I went through LOTS of money trying to solve "problems" that were caused by the sleep apnea. I have heart issues, I was put on anti-depresent drugs, high blood pressure, heart tests, lung tests, I even had a sever jaw issue that went away when i treated the sleep apnea.

In conclusion....although a sleep study is expensive, it may save you a TON of money in the long run if you are chasing medaical issues that are all a side effect of sleep apnea. If you think about it, if you never get a full night's rest, and you are starving your body of oxygen all night long, it will lead to MANY health issues.

[protokatie]

Yep, I am so fat that I have sleep apnea....

The problem has been with me since I was a teen, but I cannot justify spending the $$ on getting it "diagnosed" and "treated". I just deal with it.

On another note: I am not as quick minded as I used to be... Prolly just due to aging. But it IS a PANIC inducing thing to wake up unable to breathe... (IE NOT FUN!)

[mountain]

1 - lose weight

Not all sleep apnea folks are huge fat people like some would have you believe.  Some are, of course, but there are a lot of folks ~22% and under bodyfat who have this problem. 

Weight is actually not a factor at all in Central Sleep Apnea.

It would be a lot more useful to ask this guy for a reasonable bodyfat % before assuming he's just a fatass with a fat throat.

Mine is obstructive. I am 6'3" and 205, hardly obese but I could stand to lose a few pounds.

[shardian]

You're a chick! You wimmins need to post a warning or something in your avatar/title. 

Anyways, my wife is a size 4. Definitely think weight is a non-issue for her too.

[protokatie]

You're a chick! You wimmins need to post a warning or something in your avatar/title. 

Anyways, my wife is a size 4. Definitely think weight is a non-issue for her too.

I DO try to be insulting and horrible to my fellow Terran

Is anyone here a member of team retard?

--- Yes I AM doing this on purpose, and yes I DO realize it is pissing you off.


Is that enough for you?

I am woman, hear be ---smurfette---! (Oh, and your shoes tell me you are poor and dont like to cuddle)

[shardian]

...I don't get it...

[ChadTower]

She doesn't have sleep apnea.  That bear is choking her.

FWIW, I've had sleep anpea issues as low as ~15% bodyfat.

[protokatie]

...I don't get it...

Your wife must be as keen as apple pie then  

Lucky you.

Thank Darwin that I am not her.

edit: I was basically saying that my title, avatar, and sig are lines a woman would say, and thus are already a warning to you)

[patrickl]

My dad had sleep apnea and he underwent surgery for it and the problem is gone. Or at least it has been gone for several years now.

[ChadTower]

My dad had sleep apnea and he underwent surgery for it and the problem is gone. Or at least it has been gone for several years now.

Yeah, there is a tissue removal option in the airway... last I looked into that was a few years ago and the results back then were a very mixed bag.  Don't know if they have higher success rates now.

[shardian]

My dad had sleep apnea and he underwent surgery for it and the problem is gone. Or at least it has been gone for several years now.

I've heard that tonsil/adenoids being removed can help. What kind of surgery did he have?

[ChadTower]

Note that's only an option for OSA.  It won't do anything for CSA.

[protokatie]

Note that's only an option for OSA.  It won't do anything for CSA.

OSA = Obstructive Sleep Apnea

CSA = Chronic Sleep Apnea

Just chiming in.


edit: CSA = Central Sleep apnea

[polaris]

Note that's only an option for OSA.  It won't do anything for CSA.

OSA = Obstructive Sleep Apnea

CSA = Chronic Sleep Apnea

Just chiming in.


edit: CSA = Central Sleep apnea

thanks for explaining that in the third reply chad.

[ChadTower]

No problem.  When I was diagnosed I did a ton of research into the topic.  Ironically, I never did become any good at using my CPAP, and don't use it now.  My sleep apnea is mild to moderate so while it does affect how I feel it doesn't affect my abilities.  There is definitely a weight threshhold for me, though, that if I get to a certain bodyfat % the apnea gets worse fast.  It seems to be around 23-24%.  I don't get any better if I go well below it but I do get worse if I reach those levels.

[ark_ader]

I used to have a similar problem when i was really fat.

Now I'm  thinner than I was,  I can breathe better and no more snoring.

I still have the problem about getting out of bed after the alarm clock goes off, but that is a side effect of having such a comfy bed.   

ProtoKatie:

Nice Pic.

[protokatie]

I used to have a similar problem when i was really fat.

Now I'm  thinner than I was,  I can breathe better and no more snoring.

I still have the problem about getting out of bed after the alarm clock goes off, but that is a side effect of having such a comfy bed.   

ProtoKatie:

Nice Pic.

Don't get too thin, otherwise your wife will leave you for someone who has meat on his bones.

And thanks. Old pic... But the most recent I have.




@Polaris: ass

[FrizzleFried]

I've used a CPAP machine for 11,800+ hours thus far (according to the machine)....or about uh,  4 years or so?  The difference between pre-CPAP and post-CPAP is startling.   It saved my life.

[protokatie]

I've used a CPAP machine for 11,800+ hours thus far (according to the machine)....or about uh,  4 years or so?  The difference between pre-CPAP and post-CPAP is startling.   It saved my life.

I looked at the machine and didnt feel comfy with it. If I do have this problem, is it something worthwhile? (Beware, I have no insurance nor disposable income.) I have had "this kind of problem" since I can remember.

[Malenko]

Ironically, I never did become any good at using my CPAP, and don't use it now.

I looked at the machine and didnt feel comfy with it. If I do have this problem, is it something worthwhile? (Beware, I have no insurance nor disposable income.) I have had "this kind of problem" since I can remember.

get chads old machine, hes not using it anyway

EDIT: fixed poor QuoteFU

[ChadTower]

Heh, mine has less than 1000 hours of use... and is self regulating, meaning it is probably one of the better units to use if you don't have a prescribed PSI.  My doctor may not be great at diagnostics but he wields a mean prescription pad.

[shardian]

Honestly, I expected there to be some of these used machines on ebay - there were none. Are they a controlled piece of medical equipment or something?

[mountain]

I've used a CPAP machine for 11,800+ hours thus far (according to the machine)....or about uh,  4 years or so?  The difference between pre-CPAP and post-CPAP is startling.   It saved my life.

Thanks for that Frizzle... gives me something to look forward to!

BTW, I recall reading something in the paperwork last night that said that most insurance companies will agree to a new machine every 3-4 months and that one should change them no less than once per year. It was pretty vague and didn't list a reason. Have you been on the same machine for 4 years?

[ChadTower]

Honestly, I expected there to be some of these used machines on ebay - there were none. Are they a controlled piece of medical equipment or something?

Depends on what you mean by control but most vendors do want you to have an Rx for them.  They have configurations that need to be determined by the doctor performing the analysis (most often the PSI the compressor puts out but there are a couple other things as well).

You also really don't want a used one unless you know it's going to be clean.  You do not not not not not want the sinus or respiratory infections that result in using a dirty CPAP.  They are nasty.

[ChadTower]

BTW, I recall reading something in the paperwork last night that said that most insurance companies will agree to a new machine every 3-4 months and that one should change them no less than once per year. It was pretty vague and didn't list a reason. Have you been on the same machine for 4 years?

Not a new machine, new headgear every 3-4 months and a new hoses a little more often.  The masks, hoses, and machine are separate pieces of equipment.  The reason you replace the mask is that the latex that makes up the air seal around your mouth/nose dries up and fatigues atfter about 3 months.  The result is loss of air pressure and the whole concept becomes ineffective.

[shardian]

Well of course I figured the hose/mask assembly would need replaced. I just figured the actual machine was a sealed unit, kind of like industrial breast pumps.

[ChadTower]

Well of course I figured the hose/mask assembly would need replaced. I just figured the actual machine was a sealed unit, kind of like industrial breast pumps.

I think they still fall in a medical grey area.  Unregulated but requiring a prescription to buy from a licensed vendor.  The whole scenario is still fairly immature both medically and at retail.

Industrial breast pumps don't have individual configurations determined by a doctor.  CPAPs do.  They don't just drop it on a random PSI and hope it works.

[mountain]

Well of course I figured the hose/mask assembly would need replaced. I just figured the actual machine was a sealed unit, kind of like industrial breast pumps.

I think they still fall in a medical grey area.  Unregulated but requiring a prescription to buy from a licensed vendor.  The whole scenario is still fairly immature both medically and at retail.

Industrial breast pumps don't have individual configurations determined by a doctor.  CPAPs do.  They don't just drop it on a random PSI and hope it works.

This is true, I have to go back for another sleep study once I get the equipment. They will find the correct PSI during this visit.

[ChadTower]

I believe they also sell them under the brand name Taser.  Give it a shot.

[polaris]

I believe they also sell them under the brand name Taser.  Give it a shot.

now that, is funny. 

[Xiaou2]

 My Grandmother was recently diagnosed with  Apnea as well.   Shes been using
one of those machines regularly now.

 
 I do not know if this will help...  and most people probably will not be willing to
put in the effort to even try this...  but here goes...


 You guys and gals may want to try a few alternative exercises.   One is
meditative breathing exercises.   By doing these specific exercises... your lung
capacity will increase... and your breath will be much deeper and powerful.
Its kinda hard to describe.

 I used to meditate every day,  2 times a day.    However, Ive taught only the
specialized breathing method to one of my private Kungfu students, and he
showed incredible results in only 2-3 months time (at 3 days a week, each
session lasting at least 5 min duration).
 
 As well as the breath exercise... Meditation may also help play a role... in that
it helps sync the brains left and right hemisphere.   It also works with the
subconscious mind,  as well as more attention and focus in the waking world.
(and possible side effects such as Intuition, Premonitions..etc)  It also
calms you and helps to greatly improve your moods.


 I will post the methods here a bit later.


 Give them a try.  Cant really lose/hurt  anything.

 
 Protokatie,  Nice Pic.   

[Loafmeister]

My own personal history with Sleep Apnea and comments:

1 – Breathing exercises: with the obstructive sleep apnea, I really don’t know how the heck exercises can help. The problem is when you sleep, most are horizontal and the loose fatty tissue in your throat falls down and obstructs the air flow. The reason why a CPAP device works is because it provides constant air pressure that keeps the fatty tissue out of the way.  Contrary to popular belief, the CPAP device does not provide oxygen, just air pressure.  I don’t see how your sub consciousness can help defy gravity.  However, depending on how severe your sleep apnea is, sleeping in a different position can help, elevating your upper body can for some be helpful too (and for others it could make things worse).

2 – Fatty tissue:  It is true, you do not have to be overweight to have sleep apnea however it certainly doesn’t help and is probably the #1 cause.  However, when discussing overweight and sleep apnea, people forget the only issue to consider is weight that’s in the throat area that is obstructing the air passage. IE: some people can be thin most places but they can still have considerable fatty tissue deposit in the throat area.

For an example, consider some overweight people have a thin abdomen but a huge butt and legs , while others have thin legs and derrieres, but a large gut; etc. The same is true inside your throat. You could be fairly thin everywhere but for whatever reason, your body stores fat in a few places and one of those hard hitters is your throat.

So can you do some form of exercise strictly in the neck area that will remove that fat? Eheh Unfortunately not really. You cannot target weight loss to a specific section, just like you can’t target weight gain to a specific section.  “Wait a sec, what about those people who do a bazillion sit-ups and lose their guts?”.  These people deserve credit for working hard but they are not localizing the weight loss.  If you’ll take a good look, they are thin everywhere else and simply lost most of their last remaining fat tissue, which happened to be in the gut.  Ie: if you took a look at them before and after, they will have lost weight in the legs, butt and gut too.

So what makes me an expert? Well for starters I am no expert, but I am educated. I had sleep apnea for years, got the evaluation done and was identified as a “moderate”. My memory is poor, but I think they said I stopped breathing 7-10 times per hour. My response in panic was “that’s moderate?!?”.  The health therapist said “hell yeah!”.

So I tried the CPAP mask the next day and low and behold, I had my best night’s sleep, a good 6 hours and for once, I did not wake up with a headache, which was the norm.

Unfortunately things soured from there.  For whatever reason, as a mouth breather my throat would get very dry, to the point where it burned a lot.  I tried different masks, different settings, different machines (yes, the model with the added water) and nothing worked, so I’m one of those few that although it helps one area, it didn’t work out in another.

So a bad ending?  Not really.  My problem was a weight issue brought forth by an improper diet and a lack of exercise, which was worsened by poor health which in fact prevented me from exercising. This doesn’t mean I was a slob, an idiot, a pig or whatever. Part of the issue with some obese people is one of addiction too. In no way am I comparing it in severity to smoking but let me remind you who judge harshly that if I stop smoking and I see an add on the tv on smoking, I can change the channel. For eating, at least 3 times a day I have to ingest food or it will lead to bad health, so I can just abstinence from the issue to make me healthy.

So anyway I’m a lucky guy.  Through great effort I took care of business, went on a program and proceeded to lose 106 pounds or so.  Next thing you know, no sleep apnea, not high blood pressure, no “borderline diabetic”, no headaches, etc etc etc.  This wasn’t easy and it’s a lifelong battle. It is so easy to fall back into the mode where “hey, just want to sit down and watch some TV for the evening”. I do that for too long and the butt gets used to the couch eheh.

I have put on a bit of weight (real crappy summer in Ottawa, haven’t been able to bike as often as I’d like), so I have to work that down but just to show you, I can see I’m not sleeping as well as I was during the end of the weight loss.  The sleep apnea is just waiting for a chance to creep back in it seems, so have to be vigilante.

[ChadTower]

That's good info.  I'm fairly convinced, looking at the timing of when it came on for me, that it coincided with my powerlifting and when my neck was at its biggest.  It's not only fat - it is also documented that people with more muscular necks than average can also have apnea problems.  Of course, my neck isn't nearly as big as it once was, but at the time it was pretty big and I was carrying more bodyfat than I ever had (powerlifter's diet - as much as I could eat so long as it was whole foods).

I should get back on the CPAP horse.  It does make a real difference.  My challenge was always that while it makes sleep better as often as not it prevented sleep too.  I traded lots of poor sleep for miniscule amounts of good sleep.  It wasn't too much of a net win.

[leapinlew]

is this the machine?

You totally got to MAME it.

[mountain]

 

Screamin for Dig Dug artwork!

[Xiaou2]

I dont know a lot about Apnea... however,  from looking at Katies pic,  I dont see
much in the line of Fat in the Neck area.   Looks pretty normal to me...


  I can tell you an interesting story however...

 
  When I was 5yrs old,  I was watching  TV.    On comes a commercial about Asthma.
I see this poor kid gasping and choking for air.    Strangely enough,  I thought to
myself:  "How am I breathing?"    As I never really pondered it before.

 All the sudden, I found that I could not physically breath anymore.   It was like I
forgot how to do it for a moment... and then it wouldnt re-start!   I was gasping my last
breaths singnaling to my mom,  trying to blurt out that I couldnt breath...

 Then,  she Slaps me heavily on the back and said something mean like: "Stop being an
Idiot".    As if I was faking the event.
 
 At the moment she hit me... it snapped my system out of the problem,
and I was able to finally breath again.

 
 I never faked the event... and I remember the day it happened almost like it
was yesterday.  It was scary as hell.   


 My point being... is that the Mind controls the bodys functions.   It somehow the
mind gets out of balance,  things can be thrown for a loop.   However,  things
like Meditation can help re-center the brain.

 While the problem may be purely physical for some...  maybe there is a problem with
the mind as well?   

 
 Also, breathing exercises are not exactly easy if you are doing them correctly.
Its very strenuous internally and who knows.. might be able to burn away anything
internally that may be clogging things up.

 At very least... it would greatly increase your O2 intake and bodys o2 capacity.

[protokatie]

Is there anyone on this forum that doesn't have some kind of exotic disease?

The only disease I don't have is Hypochondria.

[Xiaou2]

 An old Post I made about  Breathing and Meditation:
(try it as you read it)


In this world, we are always so busy and our minds and
souls are filled... sometimes with worries and negativity.
We may feel a bit unstable, lost, troubled, disconnected.

By doing specialized meditations, we kinda get reconnected
to a higher power. In time, it may feel like you are
literally floating on air, even when you are not meditating!

You will gain a quietness within your mind that never
existed before... and then are able to think more calmly and clearly.
Be more sensitive to things around you. Maybe even get
intuitive thoughts, visions..etc. You will feel much more
clam, relaxed, peaceful, and Happy.

However, to get the benefits.. it will take some
efforts. And at first, you may want to give up
before the magic happens. You may at first be board,
or restless... and think its a big waste of time. I
assure you, it will be worth it to stick with it.

Even if you do this for only a month or so.. it can be a
life changing event. And even if you hadnt meditated for
years (afterwards).. you still will carry around with you
many benefits.. as they are forever with you. (just maybe
not quite as strong as if you continually are active in it)

I know how when most people read the word Meditate.. they
are already thinking.. this isnt for me. I dont have time.
I cant imagine sitting there (appearing to) doing nothing.
Trust me, and take a chance. I promise results that will
make you feel so much better... and you will be so glad
you took the time and efforts to do it. The TV show
can wait

Ok, this will seem a bit long in words.. but its actually quite
simple to do, so dont fret Here goes...


--- The Breath ---

The first thing that has to be learned is the Meditative breath.
Sure, you could do this without it... but it will gain you
much greater rewards with it. Its a bit tricky to do, and feels
awkward and odd at first. Will take about 2-3 months to get to
the point where it will feel un-noticeable and comfortable.
(it may even end up toning your tummy too

There are 4 major parts to the Breath... and a delay time can
be inserted into any or all sections of this as you desire.

1) Fill the Lungs
2) Fill the Dan Tian (Ab/Stomach Area)
3) Exhale the Dan Tian
4) Exhale the Lungs


What the Dan Tian?

When many people breath... they only breath shallow breaths..
never using their full capacity. We not only wish to breath
in and hold more air... but to control the airflow with our
internal muscles very well. The Dan Tian is the lower section
just below the belly button.

Lets try the Dan Tian breath Only:

1) Press both your fist deep into your belly button area,
and hold then there with firm pressure.

2) Now, try to Breath air through you NOSE, into that belly area,
and Force the Fists to be pushed outwards. While you can do this
with muscle alone... with breath makes it very different.
(try not to fill the upper lungs when doing this.  Only fill the Dan Tian)

3) Once full and fist have been pushed out... then SLOWLY push inwards
with the fist again while exhaling out through your MOUTH SLOWLY.

Try this a few times... then try without using the fists a few times.
This is the 1st step. Now try the Full Breath:

1) Place one hand on your chest, and one on your Dan Tian

2) Breath in slowly through the Nose, filling the top Lungs ONLY,
making sure NOT to fill the Dan Tian area. If you start to
fill it, you will notice your hand moving outwards from the
Expansion. Try to stop it, and continue to fill the lungs
only until they are filled as much as you can stand. You should
be able to feel the lungs expand as your hand moves out with
them.

(You now see just how tricky it is to control each section separately,
because you naturally just use them both at the same time,
in shallower breaths)

3) Now fill the Dan Tian (belly area) Slowly, until its full. Now
ALL of your lungs should be completely full to its capacity with
air. You want it so full, that it almost hurts. That will help
to stretch out your lungs, and give them more capacity later.

4) Exhale through your Mouth, ONLY the Dan Tian... and NOT the lungs.
We are doing things in reverse now. At this point you may
accidentally breath some of the lungs air out. Try to stop it..
and keep working with the Dan Tian only.

5) Now that the Dan Tian is empty, keep it held inwards while
you breath out the Lungs. You should Push fairly good so that there
is no air left in the lungs. This push will help to make sure there
is no air, as well as strengthening the internal muscles. You
should have felt the hand move inwards while you exhaled.

6) Repeat the process over and over for at least 5 minutes. Repeat
this drill maybe once or twice a day for maybe a weeks time.
By that time, you should have gained much better control. Still,
It may be a little sloppy. It will take a while to perfect this
into feeling Natural.


A NOTE: I use a special method to Breath out through the mouth:

1) Open the mouth slightly and let your jaw hang loosely.

2) Pretend you got a Novocaine shot from the Dentist.. and your jaw and
mouth have no feeling or control. They as so loose. If you
shake your head... they will flap around. heh

3) Exhale and make an extended "Huhhhhhh-OHh" sound. The easiest way
to test this is to place your hand in front of your mouth,
and then use the 'Huhh' to create moisture on your palm. Its
the type of breath you would use to write letters on a glass
window... or to check your own breath. Just a little deeper,
looser, and slower... with a slight 'o' sound in there.   However, the Ohh sound
should be more like a  Wispered Ohh  that floats on the winds,  and not a fully
defined and pronounced  "O" sound.   Its a wind/breath sound.. and not really so much
vocal.   Its more to do with the shape of the mouth and throat as the air exits.



At first, your breath will be hardly audible. But in a few months,
Your breath exhales should be pretty loud, deep, and very long. Give it time. Youll be
amazed at the difference!



--- Beginner Meditation + Breath ---

1) Find a quiet place, and a good time when you wont get interrupted.
Usually near Bed time at Night is best.. tho make sure you arnt
so tired that you will sleep. Wear loose comfy clothing.


2) Sit comfy with legs crossed, eyes closes, and back of palms gently
lying gently on your knees. Keep your back fairly straight, yet relaxed.

3) Slowly breath into nose filling lungs only, and when full, fill the
Dan Tian slowly. Count to 5 in your mind, as you are filling up.

4) With no Air.. Hold your breath for a 5 seconds. Remember to keep the
Dan tian inwards untill you breath in.

5) Exhale out your mouth Slowly, Dan Tian first... then lungs. Count
to 5 as you are exhaling.

6) With no air, Hold 5 seconds... then repeat the process for at least
6 minutes... or until you feel satisfied. No less then 5 minutes,
or you really arnt going to get much if at all out of this.

During this, all you should focus on is the control and flow of the
breath.. and the counting. I posted a number of '5'... but you can
change that to a time that is best for you. If 5 is too long and you
cant maintain your breath for so long without Gasping for air... then
you want to lower that number. If its so short that you arnt using your
lungs full capacity... then you want to raise that number.

Over time, you will see a dramatic change in your ability. You will
get more capacity, and breath longer deeper breaths with ease.


--- Advanced Meditation ---

Now, the only difference here... is that instead of Focusing
only on your internal breath and counting.. is that we will
now use our mind to visualize certain things.

1) As you breath in... Imagine in your mind.. that you are
breathing in a cloud of bright white gas mist. The cloud is
warm and healing.. and may tingle.

2) As its 'filling into you' imagine the feel of the healing
warmth travel all thru your lungs, chest, Spine, and it will also
flow all thru your body from center outwards. It will travel down
your legs to your feet.. Down your arms, up the neck, and even
fill the head. See this happening, and try to feel it as you
see it in your mind.  (it may take like 3+ times before you actually start
to feel the things you are visualizing.  Weak at first.. and stronger later on)

3) As you hold your breath.. you have even more time to
feel the warm healing powers cycle through your system.

4) Now, as you exhale.. you want to imagine that the
energy has absorbed all your negativity and bad energy...
and you now are going to expel it out of your body.
See it travel from your feet up your legs, your head and
arms and all the rest.. and out of your mouth. You should
imagine it coming out as a dark color like black or brown.

5) Repeat this with each breath during the meditation. At
first.. you may not feel anything different at all. But after
a few sessions, you should be actually feeling the healing
energy radiate and flowing through you. Its an Amazing
feeling!

After you have done a few meditations, you should start
feeling so much more relaxed, balanced and centered...
Its kinda like a shower for the soul. Wiping away
all your tension, worries, fears, doubts, and other
negativity.

--- Caution ----

Now, Ive never ever had any complications.. but, I have to put this
in 'just in case'. I take no responsibility for any problems
that these exercises may cause upon you. Do these at your own risk.

[SithMaster]

Is there anyone on this forum that doesn't have some kind of exotic disease?

I think we have one of everything.  The collection is complete.

[protokatie]

Is there anyone on this forum that doesn't have some kind of exotic disease?

I think we have one of everything.  The collection is complete.

It doesnt run at full-speed on MAME V.89+. And if you try to run our collections on earlier versions, you will encounter bugs.

But, it is still only important that we have the full collection.

[Loafmeister]

Xiaou2, I got that and I know some stuff like that is real. But we are talking about a diagnosed sleep apnea patient with a real physical issue thus why IN THAT CASE I don't think meditation can help.  But to each is own of course.

[FrizzleFried]

During my sleep study I averaged 32 times per hour that I'd stop breathing.  The shortest being 3 to 4 seconds and the longest being over 110 seconds!!  I finally went in to be tested when one night I woke up BLUE and having a REAL hard time breathing.  The doctor estimates I could have been not breathing for over 3 or 4 minutes in that case.  It scared the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of me. 

PRE-CPAP:  I'd have to get up and piss a MINIMUM of once per night,  averaged 2 times per night,  sometimes 3 times per night.  EVERY night.

POST-CPAP: The very first day I used the machine I slept through the entire night without getting up to piss once.  It's THAT much of a difference.

PRE-CPAP:  I actually fell asleep at Super Bowl Parties DURING THE GAME...two years in a row!

POST-CPAP: 4 hours of CPAP assisted sleep felt like 20 hours of pre-CPAP sleep.

PRE-CPAP:  I feel asleep on the 5FWY during rush hour traffic in the fast lane on my way to work at 7AM in the morning...I almost killed 3 guys working on the side of the road.  I ended  up causing about $50K of damage once my insurance was done paying everyone off...

POST-CPAP:  No problems driving even 20 hours (Boise to San Diego)...

The bottom line is that I go NOWHERE without my machine.  It's a pain in the ass at the airport (I always go to the secondary checkpoint while they check my machine for bomb materials),  it's a pain in the ass to get used to,  but it's most certainly a life saver.

I talked to the doc about surgery to remove some of the excess materials from my throat,  the problem is that it's only effective about 30% of the time,  it hurts like a ---smurfette---,  and it's actually NOT recommended unless CPAP is ineffective.   It's not just fatty tissue causing the problem either.  For some reason when apnea sufferers go in to REM sleep,  their throat muscles relax causing the throat to collapse internally....you then stop breathing....after x number of seconds the body recognizes it's not getting enough oxygen and it pulls you out of REM sleep,  thereby "waking up" the muscle tissue in the throat,  causing the throat to open for access to air.  There-in lies the problem,  apnea sufferers only get MINIMAL REM sleep...the most important kind of sleep for the body because it keeps getting kicked out of REM sleep by the lack of oxygen.

No amount of hypnosis,  no amount of exercise,  no amount of meditation is going to rectify what is a physical issue.   Weight is a major factor,  but not ALWAYS the case and some minor apnea sufferers may be able to eliminate CPAP with weight loss,   the vast majority only get to a point where they can lower the PSI of the CPAP machine...not completely eliminate it.

As for my machine,  I am supposed to go get it "tuned up" every couple thousand hours,  but it's $80 each time,  all they do is pull it apart and clean it,  re-set it for my correct PSI and send it back...and I am without the machine for a week or so (miserable!)...so after sending it to them the first time I pulled it apart myself and cleaned it myself,  reset the PSI for 11.5psi and done.  Saved me $80 per time,   and the hell that is sleeping without it.   I'm supposed to change my mask every 4 months or so,  but realistically it gets changed about once a year.   I wash the mask, tube and filter weekly with anti-bacterial soap...supposed to do it daily,  ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---...way too much time wasted doing that crap...and i've not gotten sick once caused by it.  That said,  I do NOT use the humidifier unit that came with it...I stick to running dry.  If you use the humidifier you pretty much HAVE to clean the ---smurfette--- out daily (maybe once every 2 days).

[mountain]

Good info Frizzle. I haven't received my official results yet but the technician unofficially told me it was pretty severe.

POST-CPAP: 4 hours of CPAP assisted sleep felt like 20 hours of pre-CPAP sleep.

During my sleep study they put a mask on me for the last 5 hours. I went home, took a shower and went to work. Wow! I felt totally refreshed. I have read that long time sufferers will not see the full benefits for weeks, if not months. My wife first noticed the problem the first year of marriage and says it has slowly gotten worse. We have been married for 13 years!

[Loafmeister]

EXCELLENT post Frizzle

[ChadTower]

OTOH, I put the face mask on and had an anxiety attack after ten minutes on the first 3 tries.  Just could not deal with the mask, which is odd, because I've never had an issue with a SCUBA mask.  3-4 more mask types later I finally found a nasal pillow mask that does work but it causes me as much insomnia as it solves the sleep quality.

[SithMaster]

OTOH, I put the face mask on and had an anxiety attack after ten minutes on the first 3 tries.  Just could not deal with the mask, which is odd, because I've never had an issue with a SCUBA mask.  3-4 more mask types later I finally found a nasal pillow mask that does work but it causes me as much insomnia as it solves the sleep quality.

Isn't the insomnia better than not breathing?

[ChadTower]

Isn't the insomnia better than not breathing?

Sleep deprivation is pretty much the same either way.  It just builds up faster when you're not sleeping at all than it does when you're sleeping in 15 minute increments.  It's not like people stop breathing while they're awake.

[Singapura]

Isn't the insomnia better than not breathing?

Not breathing is a pretty good cure for insomnia 

[FrizzleFried]

I use a regular ole mask because I am afraid to try something else.  This works.  I want to try the nasal pillows though.  There is also a real expensive mask that actually snaps to your teeth (you have to have it fitted of course) so there isn't a problem with tossing and turning and having the mask come off...it sounds like it would be uncomfortable though.

[shardian]

During my sleep study I averaged 32 times per hour that I'd stop breathing.  The shortest being 3 to 4 seconds and the longest being over 110 seconds!!  I finally went in to be tested when one night I woke up BLUE and having a REAL hard time breathing.  The doctor estimates I could have been not breathing for over 3 or 4 minutes in that case.  It scared the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of me. 

PRE-CPAP:  I'd have to get up and piss a MINIMUM of once per night,  averaged 2 times per night,  sometimes 3 times per night.  EVERY night.

POST-CPAP: The very first day I used the machine I slept through the entire night without getting up to piss once.  It's THAT much of a difference.

IIRC, my wife stopped around 22 times an hour, with the longest being 1 minute or so. She was shocked that was considered not being apnea. She also goes to the bathroom several times a night. I figured it was because she was a woman.

[shardian]

  When I was 5yrs old,  I was watching  TV.    On comes a commercial about Asthma.
I see this poor kid gasping and choking for air.    Strangely enough,  I thought to
myself:  "How am I breathing?"    As I never really pondered it before.

 All the sudden, I found that I could not physically breath anymore.   It was like I
forgot how to do it for a moment... and then it wouldnt re-start!   I was gasping my last
breaths singnaling to my mom,  trying to blurt out that I couldnt breath...

 Then,  she Slaps me heavily on the back and said something mean like: "Stop being an
Idiot".    As if I was faking the event.
 
 At the moment she hit me... it snapped my system out of the problem,
and I was able to finally breath again.

 
 I never faked the event... and I remember the day it happened almost like it
was yesterday.  It was scary as hell.   


 My point being... is that the Mind controls the bodys functions.   It somehow the
mind gets out of balance,  things can be thrown for a loop.   However,  things
like Meditation can help re-center the brain.

I hate to say it, but if your mind is that 'out of center', you might need medication. The stuff you say sometimes freaks me out dude!

[ChadTower]

IIRC, my wife stopped around 22 times an hour, with the longest being 1 minute or so. She was shocked that was considered not being apnea. She also goes to the bathroom several times a night. I figured it was because she was a woman.

Did they say "no apnea" or "too low to qualify under your insurance?"

Big difference between the two.

[shardian]

Their phrase was 'borderline apnea'. I too figured that meant 'you have apnea, but insurance won't pay for your machine unless you have it really, really bad.'

They never did put a machine on her during either test.

[Loafmeister]

During my sleep study I averaged 32 times per hour that I'd stop breathing.  The shortest being 3 to 4 seconds and the longest being over 110 seconds!!  I finally went in to be tested when one night I woke up BLUE and having a REAL hard time breathing.  The doctor estimates I could have been not breathing for over 3 or 4 minutes in that case.  It scared the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of me. 

PRE-CPAP:  I'd have to get up and piss a MINIMUM of once per night,  averaged 2 times per night,  sometimes 3 times per night.  EVERY night.

POST-CPAP: The very first day I used the machine I slept through the entire night without getting up to piss once.  It's THAT much of a difference.

IIRC, my wife stopped around 22 times an hour, with the longest being 1 minute or so. She was shocked that was considered not being apnea. She also goes to the bathroom several times a night. I figured it was because she was a woman.

Dude, if you are recalling the numbers correctly, that is Sleep Apnea, there's no way stopping to breath for 1 minute is considered borderline. Either get her re-evaluated ELSEWHERE or there's a communication problem between you/wife and the doctors.  That's just ridiculous...

[ChadTower]

Their phrase was 'borderline apnea'. I too figured that meant 'you have apnea, but insurance won't pay for your machine unless you have it really, really bad.'

They never did put a machine on her during either test.

Depends on when she hit the threshhold.  A lot of people don't start showing signs of heavy apnea until several hours into the test, and by then, it is too late to get her on the machine that night.  What they would do usually if that is the case is keep recording and then make her come back for a second study and just start her off with CPAP.  That's what they did with me.  I wasn't too bad for the first 3 hours, then was really bad for the second three.

[shardian]

She had sleep studies at 2 completely different sleep centers. At the second one, they did 'nap tests'. They would wake her up several times during the night, and then kept her into the afternoon the next day to take 2-3 hour long naps. I don't recall what those tests were for.

[FrizzleFried]

During my sleep study I averaged 32 times per hour that I'd stop breathing.  The shortest being 3 to 4 seconds and the longest being over 110 seconds!!  I finally went in to be tested when one night I woke up BLUE and having a REAL hard time breathing.  The doctor estimates I could have been not breathing for over 3 or 4 minutes in that case.  It scared the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of me. 

PRE-CPAP:  I'd have to get up and piss a MINIMUM of once per night,  averaged 2 times per night,  sometimes 3 times per night.  EVERY night.

POST-CPAP: The very first day I used the machine I slept through the entire night without getting up to piss once.  It's THAT much of a difference.

IIRC, my wife stopped around 22 times an hour, with the longest being 1 minute or so. She was shocked that was considered not being apnea. She also goes to the bathroom several times a night. I figured it was because she was a woman.

Dude, if you are recalling the numbers correctly, that is Sleep Apnea, there's no way stopping to breath for 1 minute is considered borderline. Either get her re-evaluated ELSEWHERE or there's a communication problem between you/wife and the doctors.  That's just ridiculous...

Agreed.  I was told almost everyone stops breathing in their sleep from time to time...but that "normal" is under 10 seconds and under a couple per NIGHT....