Game character - The most iconic?

[missioncontrol]

I'm with you on this Chad.

Although not necessarily my all time best game, I feel that it was a defining moment in arcade history.

Me three. It was a Space Invaders cocktail that I first played on when I was 8 in a hotel in Blackpool that got me hooked . I have become quite infatuated with those few pixels. My project reflects this.

it's easily recognizable to us, but I have this guy as my front license plate and I get a lot of "What's that thing supposed to be?" questions.

[shmokes]

The limits are especially harder since Pacman never really made it into the latest gen. Mario is much easier to come up with new ideas for based on 3D and better looking graphics and level design. There is not much you can do with a 2D character to make it new when the core appeal is in a 2D maze. Taking Pacman out of his 2D maze loses all his appeal and then becomes just another bad platformer, unlike Mario.

But that's my point exactly.  Mario didn't just waltz into the latest generation of his own accord.  His 2D origins are as humble as Pac-man's.  He was carried into successive generations, right up to the latest generation (if the Wii can be considered current-gen), by talented developers who have, with a few exceptions, refused to cash in with wholly derivative sequels. 

There's nothing inherently more updatable about a plumber being chased by turtles than a yellow guy being chased by ghosts.  There's also almost no resemblance whatsoever between Donkey Kong or the original Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy, or Super Mario 64, or even Super Mario Bros. 2.    And certainly there's nothing logically linking the original Donkey Kong to Super Mario Strikers or Mario Kart. 

If Pac-Man had been Miyamoto's character, you can bet that we would have modern iterations of Pac-Man that continued to innovate and push the envelope of videogames.

[ChadTower]

Plus Pac-Man did evolve over the years.  I really liked the Pac Man World games.

[RandyT]

If Pac-Man had been Miyamoto's character, you can bet that we would have modern iterations of Pac-Man that continued to innovate and push the envelope of videogames.

I tend to disagree with this statement.  Just giving Pac-Man legs, arms and eyes was stretching it to an extreme.  The character was fundamentally changed from the thing that gave it fame in the first place.  IMHO, that helped to fuel a rejection of the "new" character.  PacMan is also far less dimensional than Mario.  Mario is a person, while PacMan is a yellow blob with a mouth.

Further proof is that there were attempts to integrate PacMan as a character beyond the 2D maze. and none of them fared very well at all.

RandyT

[shmokes]

Mario has been given everything from a racoon's tale that inexplicably gives him the ability to fly, to the ability to fly around like a bee and stick to honey-comb.  Mario has been fundamentally changed dozens of times from what gave him fame in the first place.  Seriously, you would have to be stark raving mad not to consider the change from Super Mario World to Super Mario 64 to be anything but completely and utterly fundamental.

What sets Mario apart is the quality of the sequels and nothing else.  Mario sequels have endured for one reason and one reason only -- the quality of the games.  Look at the Tomb Raider franchise for an example of this on the other side of the coin.  The Tomb Raider sequels (aside from the most recent Crystal Dynamics developed ones) didn't stray from the fundamentals at all.  But they were total cash-ins that didn't innovate at all, and the franchise almost disappeared.  Sonic is another example of a character who has floundered, but is fundamentally no-less updatable.

I maintain that it is Pac-Man's developers, and not his original lack of legs, that have kept him from evolving with gaming hardware.

[ChadTower]

See pretty much any fighting game series for more examples.

[leapinlew]

I maintain that it is Pac-Man's developers, and not his original lack of legs, that have kept him from evolving with gaming hardware.

Really? I suppose you maintain that same stance on the rectangle in Pong? Sometimes you have to create an exaggerated example to get someone to see the point. Pong for example is a simplistic design that didn't have much design room, or do you contend that the developers of Pong are the reason why we don't see the Pong as a iconic video game character?

Pacman was a transition and revolution in the gaming industry. It's simplistic design is both it's detriment and success. The fact it had as many iterations as it did, despite it's simplistic nature only further illustrates what an icon it is.

[ChadTower]

Really? I suppose you maintain that same stance on the rectangle in Pong? Sometimes you have to create an exaggerated example to get someone to see the point. Pong for example is a simplistic design that didn't have much design room, or do you contend that the developers of Pong are the reason why we don't see the Pong as a iconic video game character?

Pacman was a transition and revolution in the gaming industry. It's simplistic design is both it's detriment and success. The fact it had as many iterations as it did, despite it's simplistic nature only further illustrates what an icon it is.

 

[shmokes]

A #1, yes -- Pong could have been updated as a table-tennis, or tennis franchise.  In fact there is a brilliant spot run during Wimbledon a couple years ago in which Andy Roddick was pitted against Pong, LOL.

But beyond that, you said yourself that your example was exaggerated.  While I think that Pong could, in fact, have been updated as a franchise, it's also clear that Pac-Man had a lot more complexity and even narrative to work with.  Pac-Man has in fact, been updated all the way to into the world of 3D with mixed (mostly disappointing) results.  The idea that these efforts have failed due to a fundamental flaw in the Pac-Man character seems rather unlikely to me, and certainly no more likely than the suggestion that a fundamental flaw in Lara Croft's character explains the second-rate sequels she generated.

[protokatie]

Replace sonic with pacman, and the rings with dots, and we might be on to something...

[Hemi]

Wario and many other Nintendo characters should all just take off and become smash-hit characters and have their own games as Mario does, going by your idea about if Nintendo designed Pacman then Pacman would have been a hit. Why do we not see Super Peach World games or Yoshi Power Tennis? No, I think it is much more than just a great creator/Dev that makes a game and character work. Some ideas and characters just work and some do not, some only work in certain situations and others can grow and be used in many ways, but it's not solely based on the guy in-charge of making the game entirely.

No one knows what's going to be a hit when it happens. It's actually kinda sad and proves my point exactly. If the Pacman Dev's can't take such a well know character and add him to ANY game and have that game be a success, Pacman might not have been as great as we think he was.

[shmokes]

Yoshi and Wario have both stared in multiple games with a fair amount of success.  And even if Pac-Man is just too simplistic to work today, which is unlikely, it doesn't explain all the derivative crap he starred in back in the day.  It was a franchise that was managed in much the same way the Tomb Raider franchise was managed.  Obviously there's not an inherent problem with Laura Croft.  Her first adventure was an excellent game.  Then the company just started churning out cardboard cut-outs of it, thinking the public would just slurp it up.  And the public did exactly that . . . a couple of times.  Luckily, it's looking like Eidos may be repenting before it's too late.  The last two Tomb Raiders were quite good, and the upcoming one seems to be combining the good qualities of each of those into what looks like it may turn out to be the best Tomb Raider ever.

As far as Pac-Man goes, why couldn't Pac-Man be the star of Super Monkey Ball?  Why couldn't he be the star of a game set in a haunted house?  Why can't he have legs?  Arms?  Mario got the ability to shoot fireballs. 

I'll admit that some characters are inherently cooler than others.  Laura Croft is a cool character.  Solid Snake is a cool character.  Larry Laffer, in his own way, is a cool character.  But Mario is just a fat plumber with almost no personality whatsoever, even after more than 20 years.  If Mario had never been invented, and you were a top-level game designer who went to your bosses with a character design you wanted to run with, saying, "My idea is to make a platformer where you control a fat plumber who can kill enemies by jumping on them," they'd probably just look at you with Metal Gear-style question marks over their heads.  Mario is famous because his games are so good, not because there's something inherently special about him.  Sonic's fame is fading faster than Cuba Gooding Jr's because his games are so bad (much like Gooding, Jr.'s movies, actually).

[Hemi]

As far as Pac-Man goes, why couldn't Pac-Man be the star of Super Monkey Ball?  Why couldn't he be the star of a game set in a haunted house?  Why can't he have legs?  Arms?  Mario got the ability to shoot fireballs. 

That's like saying why couldn't Nick Cage play in the movie Rocky and make it work.

[leapinlew]

Not all Mario titles are instant hits. They've whored him out to promote a ton of games  that might not have done well without his name recognition. It could be argued that the developers at Nintendo lack the ability to come up with any new characters. *GASP!* 

They threw a lot of spaghetti on the walls with Mario. Some of it stuck, lots didn't.









1989 - Super Mario Land
1991 - Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up
1991 - Mario Teaches Typing
1992 - Yoshi
1992 - Super Mario Kart
1992 - Mario Paint
1992 - Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins
1993 - Yoshi's Cookie
1993 - Mario is Missing!
1993 - Mario's Time Machine
1993 - Super Mario All-Stars
1994 - Hotel Mario
1994 - Mario's Early Years: Fun with Letters
1994 - Mario's Early Years: Fun with Numbers
1994 - Mario's Early Years: Pre-school
1994 - Tetris & Dr. Mario
1995 - Mario's Game Gallery
1995 - Mario's Tennis
1995 - Mario Clash
1995 - Mario Picross
1995 - Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
1996 - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
1996 - Super Mario 64
1997 - Mario Kart 64
1997 - Mario Teaches Typing 2
1999 - Mario Brothers Deluxe
1999 - Mario Golf
1999 - Super Smash Bros.
1999 - Mario Party
2000 - Mario Tennis
2000 - Mario Party 2
2001 - Paper Mario
2001 - Mario Party 3
2001 - Super Mario Advance
2001 - Mario Kart: Super Circuit
2001 - Luigi's Mansion
2001 - Super Smash Bros. Melee
2001 - Dr. Mario 64
2002 - Super Mario Advance 2: Super Mario World
2002 - Super Mario Sunshine
2002 - Super Mario Advance 3: Yoshi's Island
2002 - Mario Party 4
2003 - Mario Party 5
2003 - Mario Kart: Double Dash
2003 - Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3
2003 - Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
2004 - Mario vs. Donkey Kong
2004 - Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
2004 - Mario Golf: Advance Tour
2004 - Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
2004 - Mario Pinball Land
2004 - Mario Power Tennis
2004 - Mario Party 6
2005 - Mario Party Advance
2005 - Mario Superstar Baseball
2005 - Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix
2005 - Dr. Mario & Puzzle League
2005 - Mario Party 7
2005 - Mario Tennis: Power Tour
2005 - Mario & Luigi: Partners In Time
2005 - Super Mario Strikers
2006 - New Super Mario Brothers
2006 - Mario Hoops 3-on-3
2006 - Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis
2007 - Mario Party 8

[brandon]

Samus Aran, Simon Belmont, Mega Man...

[Blanka]

@leapinlew
Where's 1981-1988?
And i also misse Super Mario Galaxy (2007) and Mario Kart Wii (2008)
Another thing to add to the list: tell what's the deal with Princess in each title. Guess you have to get her out of Bowser's hands in at least 50% of the titles.
So who's most Iconic?
Mario, for being a fool over and over again (a donkey won't hurt itself twice on the same stone)
Princess for being very dumb and very blond, but not Paris-Hilton-bichy enough to make fun of Bowser
Or Bowser, who takes this blonde for his pleasures for 30 years already! I think Bowser is most iconic!

[CrazyKongFan]

I got another arcade game Pac-Man is in, Kick/Kickman. He's in place of some of the balloons the clown has to catch on his head (and eats the ones he's already caught). It also has the ghosts on it on higher levels.

[Malenko]

I'm not pickin on ya Hemi but........

That's like saying why couldn't Nick Cage play in the movie Rocky and make it work.

Because Nicholas Cage was only 15 when Rocky came out.

Why do we not see Super Peach World games or Yoshi Power Tennis?

For simplicity's sake Im not going to list sequels, like Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 nor will I list edutainment games like Donkey Kong Math


there IS a Super Princess Peach
http://www.gamespot.com/ds/action/superprincesspeach/index.html

Yoshi was the main playable character in Super Mario World 2:Yoshi's Island, it was re-released as Yoshi's Island DS, Yoshi's Touch and Go, Yoshi Topsy Turvey on GBA, Yoshi's Story on N64, and my fave Yoshi's Cookie on NES (and SNES).

Donkey Kong had DK Country, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong Land, Donkey Kong 64, Mario VS Donkey Kong, Donkey Konga, Donkey Kong:King of Swing, Donkey Kong Banana Kingdom

Wario?
Wario Land on GB, WarioLand for the Virtu Boy, WarioWorld, Wario:Master of Disguise, and the WarioWare line of games.


and while I thought of my answer, I tested my theory... I asked people at work and my parents.the most common 2 answers I got were spot on, Pacman for arcades and Mario. My 54 yr old mom knows who Pacman and Mario are and so did the 22 yr old guy at work, even my 7 yr old nephew knows who they are. Thats Iconic.

[ChadTower]

For simplicity's sake Im not going to list sequels, like Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 nor will I list edutainment games like Donkey Kong Math

Can you list any math game that was a hit? 

[Malenko]

For simplicity's sake Im not going to list sequels, like Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 nor will I list edutainment games like Donkey Kong Math

Can you list any math game that was a hit? 

Number Munchers on the Apple ][ GS

[ChadTower]

Can you list any math game that was a hit? 

Number Munchers on the Apple ][ GS

I don't know that that really scales as a hit the same size as the Mario games.  Ancient computer games didn't have anything like your average console user base.

[Malenko]

Can you list any math game that was a hit? 

Number Munchers on the Apple ][ GS

I don't know that that really scales as a hit the same size as the Mario games.  Ancient computer games didn't have anything like your average console user base.

/sarcasim

Does Professor Layton on the DS count? that game was worse then doing homework. I dont think the mario math game was much more successful number munchers. I know it couldnt have been as fun

[shmokes]

Geometry Wars.  Boom!   

[ChadTower]

Does Professor Layton on the DS count? that game was worse then doing homework. I dont think the mario math game was much more successful number munchers. I know it couldnt have been as fun

The Mario math game wasn't much fun at all... there have definitely been Mario games that weren't huge hits.  I don't think a math game applies, though, since you know going in that it's not going to be a top seller because it's a math game.  I think part of the Mario mystique is that he is so inherently Nintendo.  Pac Man was a 2600 blockbuster but it wasn't even an Atari property.  Mario has tons of great games but he also constantly appears in other games throughout gaming history - including arcade games.  He is more than a game character, he is the main mascot for the industry leader.  

[brandon]

TINGLE FTW! Thread Closed.