how do I heat my garcade

[myntik1]

Iron fist (the old lady) has finally released her death hold on our 1 car garage and I've been given the clearance to turn it into an arcade. I live in the northeast.   Right now i don't have power out there so I've been running an electrical cord (truly ghetto).  I have an electrician coming over to wire it up.  So the million dollar question is how do I heat that bad boy this winter.  I was thinking about using a wood stove.. But I'm worried that if the temp changes to quickly I'll be in trouble.  And I don't want to run heat to my garage all winter ($$$$$).  Any creative solutions?

[shardian]

I plan on a space heater for mine. Unless you are going to convert it into a true room and ditch the garage door, 24/7 heating is wasted money.

[Level42]

Just turn on all the cabs.

[ChadTower]

I plan on a space heater for mine. Unless you are going to convert it into a true room and ditch the garage door, 24/7 heating is wasted money.

Rapidly heating a CRT from a winter-cold state is a good way to kill it.  Not an issue where you are but it is where he is located.

[SavannahLion]

If you haven't done so, start with insulation. Regardless of your heat source, you're going to lose a lot of it through that door. You want to try and normalize the temperature a bit.

After that I would look at leveraging a radiant heater. Unless you can ensure good air flow, look at electric instead of gas. If you must get a gas based one, look for one rated for indoor use. Radiant heaters focus the heat much better than other types in that space and you're not wasting energy heating the entire garage. Be vary cautious of damaging your cabs or causing fires though.

If radiant isn't your bag, I would look at forced air heat. I don't like them as much, they're too noisy and they never seem to last more than a year or two until the heating element falls apart. But they are generally safer (relatively speaking) than radiant heaters.

Don't bother with convection heaters, they'll be a waste of energy and your cabs will do an equally, if not better, job heating up your garage.

Chad, Doh! I didn't think of that. Oh well, I don't want to delete all of that.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, the biggest problem isn't heat for him, it's going to be keeping his cabs at a temperature where it is reasonable to fire them up.  I'm not sure there is a consensus on that but intuition tells me the bottom of that range is probably in the mid 50s at the very lowest.

[shardian]

I plan on a space heater for mine. Unless you are going to convert it into a true room and ditch the garage door, 24/7 heating is wasted money.

Rapidly heating a CRT from a winter-cold state is a good way to kill it.  Not an issue where you are but it is where he is located.

What do you consider rapid? A space heater at the other end of the garage will easily take over an hour to heat a garage up to decent temps.

[ChadTower]

What do you consider rapid? A space heater at the other end of the garage will easily take over an hour to heat a garage up to decent temps.

That's not all that fast but it might be a problem if he's doing it over and over again.  In his location it will have to be an awfully big space heater in a noninsulated garage, though.  That door is going to be a killer to the concept.

[HaRuMaN]

Also, once you get the ambient air up to a certain temp that doesn't necessarily mean that all the cab components are going to be at that temperature as well.

[myntik1]

I know I need to insulate that door.  I have some real thick plastic and I was going to seal the door as best as I could.  I just don't want to have to wait 4 hours to play some pede.

[TOK]

I asked this on KLOV last year as I started running out of space in the house and stuff started spilling out into the garage. The consensus from people that were actually in this situation was that neither the cold nor the heat much affected the machines.

If you use some type of space heater (I had an electric last year, but I'm considering a propane heater this winter), fire up the heater and the games and let them come up to temp together. My concern was monitor condensation, but nobody felt that was a problem unless you brought a very cold machine into a warm house and powered it on. Letting it warm itself in a cold environment didn't cause condensation.

This will be the year I actually put this to the test. My garage gets into the 40's during the winter and I have 3 machines out there.

[SavannahLion]

I don't think the point of contention is condensation, it's uneven expansion and contraction of the machine that's the concern. You're going to have a machine that is at or near freezing and when you fire that sucker up, some components are going to get hot a lot quicker than others.

I personally don't think it's as big a concern as many make out. I played and worked at ski resorts for years where their arcade machines spent many years in wet and freezing enviroments subjected to extreme temperatures by gas heaters (often nicknamed, "flame throwers," for good reason) and severe abuse from skis, snowboards, poles and boots.

But then again what do I know? I don't store my cabinets in the garage... they go in the shed. 

[polaris]

my dad used to use a paraffin heater in his greenhouse to keep the frost off.
maybe something like that to keep the ambient temp. up to look after the cabs as it were, and then another form of heater for when you want to use the area. the change may be less dramatic to the cabs then.

[Ummon]

On the door insulation, I suggest adding a (thick) layer of newspaper. Keeps the bums warm. (Hell, you could do all the walls in that. There is actually a method of insulation where they fill the walls with mulched newspaper.)

[ChadTower]

I don't think the point of contention is condensation, it's uneven expansion and contraction of the machine that's the concern.

Expansion and contraction of the CRT, most specifically.  It is a vacuum of glass and metal - two materials with vastly different thermal properties.  You keep heating them up from too cold a state and they'll separate.

[Xiaou2]

 I once went over to this guys garage to help him with his little printing
press setup.   It was winter.. and he was trying to heat the garage with some
sort of blower heater.. I think was propane.   

 It took at least an hour to be acceptable.. yet still cold (no insulation there),
and the fumes were horrendous.   My eyes were watering and the smell wasnt
nice either.

 
 Anyways... heres another idea...  To paint the garage a dark color such as black or
navy blue.   Something to absorb more of the suns rays to help get more heat.

 You could also run some black hose pipe on the entire roof filled with water/antifreeze?
and run the pipes to some radient heaters in the garage. (copper pipes with metal
fins that dissipate the heat out)    If its not sunny... I suppose you could have a way
to switch to the hot water tank.   However, you'd probably have to have a huge and
or 2ndary tank.   It might be a good idea anyways..  as it might be better to store all
that solar heated water seperately into that one.  (esp since you may want a system
that has some antifreeze mix in it?)



 Also... the floor is probably where a lot of heat will be lost... as the ground is a constant
cold source.   You may wish to build a mini platform.  A sort of raised flooring of wood,
with foam insulation under it for extra measure. (hard foam - so that no moisture can
absorb into it if it should somehow get wet under the flooring)

 The raised wood floor wont conduct the cold as fast/bad as direct rock will.   The wood
will also absorb and retain the heat better too.   Again.. paint black, or use dark carpet.
The more inferred energy absorbed.. the better.   

[HaRuMaN]

^^ until summertime rolls around...

[Xiaou2]

 For summer, one can always install an AC unit.. or use of fans.   In the NE, the
hot months dont last that long...  and do not always get unbearable.

 However, the cold is always very brutal here.

 Also, If one really wanted,  one might be able to hook up a similar cooling situation by running underground water pipes.   The cooler ground ground temperature might be enough to reduced the temp a bit.   Hard to say...  as you might have to go down
fairly deep to get optimal temp.   Of course... if you lived by a nice little stream,
pond..etc...   or:

 I just read actually, that someone had a well in which they did that very thing.
There well water was like 40-50 degrees.   On a day where the temp got to like 90
outside... their house was like a cool 70 degrees.   I believe he exited the spent
water into sprinklers in the yard.

 

[ChadTower]

For summer he can just open the garage door.

[shardian]

First off, you can't use a solar pipe setup in the winter. That won't work worth a damn. Even then, you have to pump the water somehow.

Painting a garage black will also not do you any good.

Using one of those propane torpedos in a garage is very dangerous. Those things are horribly inefficient and pump out tons of fumes. There are 'indoor safe' propane heaters, but even then you should have exterior ventilation via a cracked window. The only reason they are indoor safe is because they are designed to be very efficient - they still let off fumes and non-combusted propane.

[ChadTower]

First off, you can't use a solar pipe setup in the winter.

It would burst in the first freeze anyway.

[fixedpigs]

First off, you can't use a solar pipe setup in the winter.

It would burst in the first freeze anyway.

that's why he mentioned using anti-freeze...

[ChadTower]

that's why he mentioned using anti-freeze...

Which is also anti-warm...

[polaris]

that's why he mentioned using anti-freeze...

Which is also anti-warm...

i dont think it is anti warm, you could use anti freeze in a heating system, im fairly sure.

[shardian]

It's not 'anti-warm', it just has a lower freezing point than water. Antifreeze is also dangerous. In antifreeze sprinkler systems, we use Propylene Glycol.

[ChadTower]

i dont think it is anti warm, you could use anti freeze in a heating system, im fairly sure.

Not an open one like that.  It also works as a coolant because it conducts heat so well.  It may get warm but it wont stay warm long enough to bring that heat into the garage.  It's like a heat sink.  Either way the whole concept completely fails for the original suggestion because there isn't enough heat to capture anyway.

It is anti-warm in that the whole point is to move heat away from something, not into something.  It prevents something from retaining warmth.

[polaris]

no in all fairness chad my only experience is with outdoor ice rinks where they heat the glycol to melt the rink at the end of the season, we use lorry sized heaters so im not convinced the efficiency is there for a domestic use 

[ChadTower]

no in all fairness chad my only experience is with outdoor ice rinks where they heat the glycol to melt the rink at the end of the season, we use lorry sized heaters so im not convinced the efficiency is there for a domestic use 

It would work well for that... but if you have to force the ice to melt wouldn't it just freeze again when you leave? 

[polaris]

we pump hot glycol through it and the water melts and escapes from the rink enclosure , the ambient temp is no where near cold enough to keep it frozen. i believe it takes around 2000 litres of deisel a day to keep it frozen.

[ChadTower]

we pump hot glycol through it and the water melts and escapes from the rink enclosure , the ambient temp is no where near cold enough to keep it frozen. i believe it takes around 2000 litres of deisel a day to keep it frozen.

2000L a day?   

[myntik1]

I guess I'm out of luck.  I think I'm just going to get an old wood stove from somewhere.  If i know I'm having poker night or friends over I can fire the stove up and give it a couple of hours to heat the garage, which means I'll probably only use the garage 4-5 times in the winter.

[polaris]

we pump hot glycol through it and the water melts and escapes from the rink enclosure , the ambient temp is no where near cold enough to keep it frozen. i believe it takes around 2000 litres of deisel a day to keep it frozen.

2000L a day?   

yep , its not easy thinking you care about the environment in my job.

[ChadTower]

I guess I'm out of luck.  I think I'm just going to get an old wood stove from somewhere.  If i know I'm having poker night or friends over I can fire the stove up and give it a couple of hours to heat the garage, which means I'll probably only use the garage 4-5 times in the winter.

Or you can say eff it and just replace the monitors if they die.  So long as they aren't vectors that isn't a real problem.

[shardian]

I guess I'm out of luck.  I think I'm just going to get an old wood stove from somewhere.  If i know I'm having poker night or friends over I can fire the stove up and give it a couple of hours to heat the garage, which means I'll probably only use the garage 4-5 times in the winter.

You will have to vent a wood stove. At that point you are MUCH better off with a vented propane fireplace or heater. I have relatives with wood burners in their house, and the soot/stink is horrible int the room with the burner.

[SavannahLion]

I guess I'm out of luck.  I think I'm just going to get an old wood stove from somewhere.  If i know I'm having poker night or friends over I can fire the stove up and give it a couple of hours to heat the garage, which means I'll probably only use the garage 4-5 times in the winter.

You will have to vent a wood stove. At that point you are MUCH better off with a vented propane fireplace or heater. I have relatives with wood burners in their house, and the soot/stink is horrible int the room with the burner.

Something isn't right if that's the case. I grew up in a house with a 40+ year old wood stove. Soot isn't an issue unless someone spills it when they're emptying it out. Propane smells god-awful (CA law requirement) and I don't care what anyone says, you can always tell when a home uses propane anything from that hideous stench.

[shardian]

Something isn't right if that's the case. I grew up in a house with a 40+ year old wood stove. Soot isn't an issue unless someone spills it when they're emptying it out. Propane smells god-awful (CA law requirement) and I don't care what anyone says, you can always tell when a home uses propane anything from that hideous stench.

I have a friend who has a propane fireplace. There is absolutely zero smell to it at all. If there is a smell, something is wrong.

[ChadTower]

I have a friend who has a propane fireplace. There is absolutely zero smell to it at all. If there is a smell, something is wrong.

Not many states require nearly as much odor additives as CA.

[shardian]

Ahhh, I see. So I suppose grilling with propane is out of the question in CA huh?

[ChadTower]

Ahhh, I see. So I suppose grilling with propane is out of the question in CA huh?

It's a good question... no idea.  I've heard that propane smell complaint from a couple others in CA, though.  FWIW I grill with propane all the time and never smell anything even when it's venting but not yet lit.

[SirPeale]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-Heater/

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/04/how_to_almost_free_garage.html