Request for Defender CP layout details

[Paul Olson]

Here is a WIP pic of the new Defender/ Stargate Layout. I still need to do the wiring, but other than that, it is done. I am taking this opportunity to test the ultralux buttons. Should be a good button smashing test. I don't have enough white buttons for a completely accurate layout, so I used the 2 blue chrome ones. Oh well.

I have to go to orientation at school tonight, so I don't know if I will finish the wiring or not, but I am going to try.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks for the measurements arzoo, that helped a lot.

[arzoo]

Very nice!

Recently I've been playing Robotron 2084 - which could suck quarters just as fast as Defender! Both designed by Jarvis. Anyway, I set my high score yesterday - 372k. Today my son (17) tells me - I played Robotron one time. He scored 390k. Those young-ens 

[Paul Olson]

Here is the final product. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I really can't get a good pic of the buttons lit up with my camera. It doesn't focus well without the flash.

You can see my amazing score of 1725 in the pic.  . Wow, I really do suck at this.

arzoo - Did you actually see him get that score? Every kid I know claims to be able to get really high scores on my games. When I tell them to try it, it is always the same thing...they suck. Just curious.


edit: 4300 on my 3rd game. This is actually pretty fun!

[arzoo]

arzoo - Did you actually see him get that score? Every kid I know claims to be able to get really high scores on my games. When I tell them to try it, it is always the same thing...they suck. Just curious.

It's there on the screen - I've compiled mame to retain hi scores. I must have played 50 games last night to try and break 390k. No luck, and now I a blister. 

[TOK]

pcolson, post your progress and learning in the Defender thread... It was going strong for a while and kind of fizzled out.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79740.0

I just got back to playing mine. My AC vents out into the garage and the heat is unbearable in the summer. I wish I had tracked the number of games I played to reach certain milestones, like 50k and 100k. I'm still not very good with a high score in the 160k's, but I'm pretty good consistent 70 and 80k. My goal was to completely fill my hiscore roster with 100k+ games then post another screenshot there, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Panel looks great BTW! 

[TheShanMan]

Pcolson, as someone who sucks as much as I do at defender, what's your initial reaction to the reverse button placement? I'm planning to give the old control hack a try, eliminating the need for reverse and thrust buttons, but by no means have I settled on that as a solution.

[Paul Olson]

I think the position of the button is fine, I am just not used to pressing a button while using a joystick...and I forget about reverse sometimes. 

I will post my scores in that thread. This will be good with school starting next week. Donkey Kong games are starting to take qute a while to finish; I definitely don't have that problem on Defender.

[TOK]

Pcolson, as someone who sucks as much as I do at defender, what's your initial reaction to the reverse button placement? I'm planning to give the old control hack a try, eliminating the need for reverse and thrust buttons, but by no means have I settled on that as a solution.

Don't do it man. The day is gonna come when you're going to come across a real Defender in the wild,  you're going to walk up to it, drop a quarter and it's gonna whip your ass. 

[TheShanMan]

I hear ya. But I figure it could serve as an intermediate solution. If I get into it enough, then I can bite the bullet and implement the real solution. But if I don't get into it that much, then there's no sense in going to those lengths.

[Paul Olson]

TheShanMan - I would go with original controls; it is an awkward setup to me, but it is getting a little better. This is one of those games where the controls make the game (in this case they make it harder), so I wouldn't want to change it. I don't know how much I will actually play the game, but I am glad I put together the panel. I used an original stick which has a very narrow base, and the reverse button was still pretty close, so expect to do some trimming if you put one next to a regular stick.

I went with the theory that if I build it, I will play it; we'll see. I don't know how easy it is for you to add a panel, but it might be worth the effort.

I saved my first humanoid last night.  I usually end up shooting them.

[arzoo]

With practice you should be able to pick up and carry all 10 humanoids on the first level, then drop them when the last Lander is destroyed - the drop is always fun because the code or CPU freaks out and strange things happen. The trick to saving the humanoids is always keeping an eye (or peripheral vision) on the radar - know where the pickups are and keep up your speed (avoid changing direction). Use the radar to gauge your altitude so you are above the rising Lander for the kill and rescue.

[TOK]

Shanman, though I posted kidding around, definitely try the original layout. The Reverse button goes a long way to making the game.
PColson... Keep playing. I think Defender might be the toughest game to make the leap from frustrating to fun. When it does get fun, you will be amazed at the depth of play. I boggle that this game came out in 81 with such a unique mix of offense, defense and varied enemies. When you compare it to other games of its era, nothing is even close in depth.

You'll start to see cool stuff at Wave 3. Thats when enemies start warping away to prevent overloading the processor (the emulation in this vs. the real thing is excellent). You'll also find tricks like smart bombing multiple pods will slow the game down so much that you'll be able to get Landers picking up humanoids from a much greater range. The game slows down, but your ship doesn't.
This trick will also let humanoids drop from normal sure death heights and survive because they fall slow.

One of the coolest things I see on a pretty regular basis is that around the 5th Wave or so, sometimes things get so busy that a Lander will carry a humanoid up through the top of the screen and start over at the bottom. The original hardware is apparently so overwhelmed that it skips the mutation.

Its all glitches, but it's just so cool to see that crazy stuff happen while you're playing.

[TheShanMan]

In case anyone following this thread hasn't noticed, I've posted a source patch in the software forum for being able to use the controls hack (8 way joystick + 3 buttons).

I appreciate that info, TOK. And believe me, if I fall in love with playing the game, I will take the extra steps to do it right. I realize that would mean re-learning to a degree, so I won't wait too long before I do it, but I do think the controls hack is the right approach for now. I gave it a try last night and it's quite playable like that. Especially for a beginner - it is more intuitive and simpler. But I can see that more advanced players would benefit from the correct layout.

I do hope it won't be long before I report back here stating that I love playing defender and I'm going to make the right control layout for it!

[TheShanMan]

Well, I've solved my dilemma of what to do for defender controls. I bought a defender today! Not working ATM though. I've started a thread in the restoration forum for it (pics included): http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83956.msg877932#msg877932

[GaryMcT]

I don't use the reverse button for anything but Defender and Stargate on this machine... I did a thumb button on my first cab also, and it gets used for a few other games like Total Carnage and a mostly unknown game that I love called Rescue.
The Stargate machine is a bartop and it has other stuff on it, but I kept the game list pretty short. The stick is a Sanwa 8 way and since most Golden Age games didn't use a lot of buttons anyway, the Stargate Thrust and Fire buttons are good for button 1 and 2.

I'm pretty sure just from feel that the button spacing is identical between the two games. Stargate just adds the Inviso button.

I just took a quick look and the center of the stick shaft to the center of the button is about 2 1/8". Thats not exact because its just holding the ruler by the stick and button. The template I made is buried out in the garage. I can tell you that its close enough that you'll have to trim the base on most sticks. Here is a pic of what I trimmed off the Sanwa and I did something similar to a Happ Competition. I don't really like playing the Defender with the bat-top Happ on the other machine, but it was functional enough until I got this done.

On the Sanwa, I actually had to trim away a bit of the housing too, but not enough to go through.


Pic sucks, but you can see how tight they fit together after the trim.

Holy crap. . this is what I'm looking for!!!!  Thanks!  Getting the Defender reverse button in the right spot with an 8-way joystick (even a Ultrastik) is a great thing.