LCD screens, lets see pics of em!

[pinballwizard79]

I am going LCD on my next cab which I should be starting pretty soon.

Considering the 28" HannG

Would anyone like to post pics of their arcade utilizing a fancy LCD monitor?

Yeah yeah, sure I can spend a week looking in the projects page but then we wouldn't have anything to talk about in the forum now would we? 

Thanks.

[Droler]

Mine is FAR from "fancy" and the cabinet still needs work, but my Dell LCD is a nice hi res 4.3 (not widescreen) and rotates on its stand to horizontal and vertical. I'm actually posting this reply from my cab since it's in my home office and my work PC is tied up right now...

Some day, when gas prices plummet, and I get a raise and a bonus in the same day, I will replace it with a nice HDTV LCD of 27" or larger, so it won't need to rotate, but for now it's a nice enough screen for me and my kids.

It kind of looks lost in that cab, but the Centipede monitor right next to it is the same size (a little smaller actually) and the MAME cab is almost the exact same width as the Centipede. Bezels make a huge difference.

[northerngames]

if you use it for mame playing only get a real arcade monitor and run them true.

only good thing to running a lcd is movies and high res pc games but if you dont plan on running them then a lcd would be a waste compared to the real thing.

[Hoopz]

Droler, is that the pc version of Golden Tee?

[pinballwizard79]

northerngames, you crack me up 

 

If you want to play games "true" then buy the actual arcade, its still emulation even if its on an arcade monitor my friend, sorry.

Lord knows it would be cheaper to purchase a brand new digital arcade monitor but why should I? It would be even cheaper to do a cap kit with a special graphic card but man does that suck to do.

CRT's are being phased out for a reason, why drop $550+ on a new low res monitor that is plagued with issues & not offered with a service plan?

I am not knocking real arcade monitors BTW, look at my current showcase arcade & you will see a freaking MASSIVE 33" Wells Gardner in it.

BUT

I want to play lots of MAME yes, but also daphne, visual pinball (thats a huge reason there, VP on an arcade monitor just plain sucks) as well as PC titles like TigerWoods08+, virtua tennis, Bikini Karate Babes, updated PC bowling games, new sports titles from EA & etc as well. Dreamcast, SNES & etc are important too.

Whew, anyway.

Thats why I want LCD, been analog, done that & want more than just a MAME machine.

Again, I am not anti analog, I am just defending my position on the LCD's

keep gaming

[TOK]

Droler, is that the pc version of Golden Tee?

Can't be, its vertical... I've seen the game but the name escapes me at the moment.
pbwizard: I used a 19" 4:3 LG in my bartop. Seemed like the best way to get a large monitor in a relatively small cab. Its a 2ms monitor, so I don't notice any blurring or input lag. The biggest weakness I see with new LCD's is that they still are pretty weak at reproducing blacks.
I mostly solved this by using a tinted bezel. Heres the thread with screenshots of the LCD and how I mounted it:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66946.0

[pinballwizard79]

Thanks TOK, glad to see you have joined the "dark side" with my thinking.

good start on your cab too by the way Droler

[northerngames]

daphne dreamcast nes N64 ETC. there all made 15K and will display corect and best at 15K

LCD will not display any of them native and true as 15K

I just beat call of duty 2 and resident evil 4 I also have around 20+ new pc games that I play on a 15K monitor

if you dont mind stretched and squashed heads then lcd are fine but it will not display anything you mentioned better then a 15K 

I am sure all those games you mentioned will run fine on a 15K also.

a used $150.00 27" 15K would not be bad compared to $550.00 and you may want to read all the small print on lcd warrenty's.

I also have a showcase but it is a 39" wells gardner 

[pinballwizard79]

You play COD on an arcade monitor? I play COD on a 1080p LCOS but that's just me.

Squashed heads? Um I keep it at the correct aspect ratio, does that mean you stretch your vertical games?

A used $150 monitor + a $125 graphic card & cables + $25 cap kit = $300. Then you just hope it doesn't have burn in, or problems later on. Add in the time to not only "hack" it but the time searching craigslist & ebay means I would be better off actually showing up to work during those hours to make up the $250 price difference.

In store service plans = 4-5 years of no troubles for $45

Funny, I thought Mario was always played on a 480i TV set back in 1987.

PC games & visual pinball still suck on an arcade monitor no matter what & for some reason even Mario looks better on my PC then on my arcade monitors. TigerWoods & Virtua Tennis.............eh nevermind.


 

We can have LCD wars vs CRT all day long, I prefer LCD now but was once a CRT fanboy. I just wanted to see LCD's in other peoples cabinets other than Knievel's.

But kudos on the 39" monitor, thats SICK!!!!!

[Droler]

Droler, is that the pc version of Golden Tee?

Well, I *have* the PC version. But that's not it.

That's the second time someone has asked me that - is it a faux pas to have a screen shot of that showing?

[Droler]

Thanks TOK, glad to see you have joined the "dark side" with my thinking.

good start on your cab too by the way Droler

Thanks!

I use this thing for work as a backup PC so using a computer monitor is a requirement more or less.

The Dell LCD works fine for everything from Space Wars to House of the Dead to Space Ace. Plays movies well too!

[leapinlew]

I like LCD's for allowing me to make smaller machines:

[Casey120]

Oh man ,
That last Tempest one is pure porn 

[Blanka]

At the moment I use an Eizo 2431. The biggest problem for me with LCD's were blackness and viewing angles. The newest S-PVA screens seem to handle this very well. The Eizo also throws in room-light brightness compensation, what adds to the blacks quality.
With TV's selection is much harder. I know that even with TV's you have TN and S-PVA, but noone specifies it in the tech specs. Only price and manufacturer can be a small indication.
For 3:4 (vertical) gaming the 21.3 inch Samsung 214T is still killer.
New great kid on the block is the 27 inch Dell 2709W. Don't even expect any LCD TV to come close to the image quaity of these 2431SW, the Dell 2709 and the Samsung 214T. It is a total different league.
Pictures will follow soon.

My opinion on LCD vs. Arcade Monitors: The classic games are famous for their pixel art. High Def LCD is the best way to show this blockiness. It is the technique of today, and perfect to show the detail of the history. Why display Blinky blurry, as you could see how carefull the pixels are aranged to make the ghost image!

[Blanka]

I used a 19" 4:3 LG in my bartop.

Guess it's a 5:4 screen. As far as I know, 17 and 19 inchers are always 1024x1280 pixel 5:4 displays. If you want 4:3 either pick a tiny 1024x768 13 incher, or a 1600x1200 20 or 21 incher.

[Hoopz]

Droler, is that the pc version of Golden Tee?

Well, I *have* the PC version. But that's not it.

That's the second time someone has asked me that - is it a faux pas to have a screen shot of that showing?

Nope, I searched your previous posts and read that you had it.     I was curious which version that is because of the graphics underneath the golfer.  My other guess is that's a bezel showing but I haven't seen it before (I don't display bezels). 

[Droler]

Droler, is that the pc version of Golden Tee?

Well, I *have* the PC version. But that's not it.

That's the second time someone has asked me that - is it a faux pas to have a screen shot of that showing?

Nope, I searched your previous posts and read that you had it.     I was curious which version that is because of the graphics underneath the golfer.  My other guess is that's a bezel showing but I haven't seen it before (I don't display bezels). 

Ah, THAT. I do have the PC version, but it is a BEAR to get to work on anything but Windows 95. You can but it is a pain.

Well, I could give you a long explanation but to keep it short - I never can remember the damn trackball directions for slices and hooks. They are in my opinion non-intuitive, so my lame butt has to have the cheat sheet open. So yeah - that's the bezel in MAME.

In horizontal mode that leaves you with a tiny 1" tall golfer and a single pixel ball.

Vertical is a little better, but I agree with you on bezels, I generally don't display them. Too much lost real estate.

While on that subject, I wish I knew how to rotate the pinball games and lose the surrounding art.

[BORIStheBLADE]

I have been wanting a LCD for m cab because I'm having resolution issues with my tube I gutted from a tv. I just wish they would make some larger 4:3 LCD's, but I won't hold my breath.

[Ummon]

edit

[TOK]

Not exactly. Despite the tinted screen, I can see the backlight glare. And angles are still an issue from what I've seen. At this point, though I haven't personally seen those high-end LCDs mentioned above, I would only do plasma, of which large ones are getting down below a thousand now.

I think the smallest plasma is like 32", right? For a standard cab, I think 27" is about the comfortable limit (I have a 27" vert Dynamo).
As far as viewing angles go, where exactly do you figure you're going to be when you're playing the cab, 70 degrees to the side?

[Droler]

Not exactly. Despite the tinted screen, I can see the backlight glare. And angles are still an issue from what I've seen. At this point, though I haven't personally seen those high-end LCDs mentioned above, I would only do plasma, of which large ones are getting down below a thousand now.

I think the smallest plasma is like 32", right? For a standard cab, I think 27" is about the comfortable limit (I have a 27" vert Dynamo).
As far as viewing angles go, where exactly do you figure you're going to be when you're playing the cab, 70 degrees to the side?

Sorry for the double quote - but the LCD I am using is good for at least 45-60 degrees to the side and 6 feet away. I watch movies on it from my work desk across the room from time to time.

Plasmas are good for brightness and viewing range, but anything larger than 27" is too big in my opinion for up close play.

Now, a 50" plasma in a showcase....

[leapinlew]

Oh man ,
That last Tempest one is pure porn 

Not exactly. Despite the tinted screen, I can see the backlight glare. And angles are still an issue from what I've seen. At this point, though I haven't personally seen those high-end LCDs mentioned above, I would only do plasma, of which large ones are getting down below a thousand now.

The backlight glare isn't caused by the LCD. It's caused by the tinted screen, and backlight glare occurs with tinted plexi whether it's a TV, CRT, or LCD. Also, it doesn't seem to matter if tint is applied as a window tint or ordered from the plexi manufacturer. If your facing it face on - you'll get some backlight glare. What helps with glare is tilting the monitor at a steep enough angle to avoid any head on glare.

There is an angle issue, but the new LCD's aren't bad. I think they are totally acceptable, and I've used LCD's on my last few cabinets with great success.

My driving cabinet had a far tilted CRT monitor, and it looked great with tinted plexi. My Showcase has a monitor that you look at straight on, and it has backlight glare.

[Casey120]

Oh man ,
That last Tempest one is pure porn 

Not exactly. Despite the tinted screen, I can see the backlight glare. And angles are still an issue from what I've seen. At this point, though I haven't personally seen those high-end LCDs mentioned above, I would only do plasma, of which large ones are getting down below a thousand now.

@Droler: slice?...hook? I'm not a golfer so I didn't think of that.

I was commenting on the beautiful Bartop , not so much on the LCD quality 

[Blanka]

I have been wanting a LCD for m cab because I'm having resolution issues with my tube I gutted from a tv. I just wish they would make some larger 4:3 LCD's, but I won't hold my breath.

Or a 27 inch 4:3 640x480 pixel Plasma. How awesome would that be!
I wonder if you can saw plasma's and LCD's. guess the future of Wells Gardner could be in finding a nice way to slice bigger LCD's and Plasma's to all custom sizes and shapes.

[Ummon]

edit

[TOK]

That's only if you think inside the box (pun intended). A 'cab' where the monitor isn't enclosed - and I don't see any reason it needs to be , as long as the internals aren't exposed, nor the monitor cables - would fit nearly any size LCD or Plasma. As for sitting distance, I don't like to be up that close anyway, and if using a large monitor and large panel, it means you have space in-between the two. I don't see a problem.

IN FACT, last night I was thinking of a decent-priced commercial grade modern cab design that any size box-type panel could 'fit on', as well as any LCD/plasma, and this last bit gives me the idea for adjustable viewing distance. (Of course, one could just move it forward close to the panel, but to satisfy the commercial look of no cables, etc, that would take an extra step....or maybe just a cable router. Something.)

How about a pic of some of your projects? I've built three cabinets (PC monitor, TV, LCD and working on one with an arcade monitor). Like you said, all inside the box though. I'd love to see what an outside the box thinker like yourself has built so far. Maybe sway my next project or something. 

[RandyT]

@Lew: hahahahah. Not light shining on it dopey. Light emitted from it due to the technological constraints of LCDs.

Ok, I'm with Lew on this one.  What are you seeing in those photos that I am not?   All I see is a reflection of the side of the cabinet off of the tinted acrylic. 

Really, those cabs are great designs, and well executed examples of the benefits of using flat panels.

Other things, like OLEDs, will come sooner than later that will do more than this.

It seems like they have been promising these things forever.  I'm starting to wonder if they won't be surpassed by something better before they manage to come up with organics that can survive the test of time.

RandyT

[pinballwizard79]

Ummon

Let me know when you find a display that doesn't emit light 

I have a CRT in my current arcade & glare is an issue too sometimes.

Its from plexi

[Blanka]

@Blanka: any of the LCDs I've seen still have some angle issues if not at the right height or if off to the side a little, which can happen if two players are going. (The TVs are getting much better, though.)

There is no difference between TV's and Monitors on this. Problem though: You won't find S-PVA/S-IPS for monitors in stores! They are all mail-order. Computer stores only show TN displays (except the Apple iMacs/CD's, which use S-IPS).
With TV's you can compare the high quality S-PVA/S-IPS vs the low quality TN screens even in the dumbest TV shop.
The 3 I mention have no different habits on extreme angles as the best LCD-tv's, and are perfect suited for 2 player use.

[Blanka]

Other things, like OLEDs, will come sooner than later that will do more than this.

Why does no-body consider NOLED's? Non-organic-leds. Organic is fine for apples and beef, not for a display! OLED's will grow mould in a few weeks I guess.

[leapinlew]

I agree with Tok. Lets see some of your projects.

So far, all I'm seeing is 

[briktop11b]

HP 17". Works really well especially if you want a slim cabinet. Make sure you get one that comes on when the power is on. I bought one about a year ago that i had to manually push the button every tim i turned the cab on(it was in a jukebox).

[leapinlew]

Heres a pic of my LED screen

[javeryh]

I agree with Tok. Lets see some of your projects.

So far, all I'm seeing is 

Twist my arm!  Here's mine:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZCzulbwcDU[/youtube]

The video is crappy but the monitor picture is great! 

Here are some "in progress" pics:





 

[RandyT]

Heres a pic of my LED screen

Excellent contrast. 

It was interesting seeing the spinner mod to Gyruss and TimePilot.  Nice bonus 

RandyT

[Ummon]

I agree with Tok. Lets see some of your projects.

I think I'll do something simpler.

[Todd H]

Here's mine. I'll mount it when the mounting bracket comes in. It's the absolute perfect size for my Dynamo cabinet at 24" wide. Being 16:10 and having a diagonal screen size of 25.5" is going to give me a pretty nice screen size for older 4:3 games as well.

[severdhed]

i have a 19" LCD in my cabinet, i would take pics, but is not working very well right now.   when i got the cabinet, it had a 20" CRT monitor, that was deep in teh cabinet and you had to look down to see it, i wanted it to be more vertical, but the cabinet is a little small and CRT monitor just doesnt fit very well.  the LCD works great, the picture is awesome and it is easy to work with.   I need to buy a new one now, but you can pick up a 19" 4:3 LCD for under $150 now, so that isnt too bad.

[G1zm0]

ive got a pink small mame cab i built , its still work in progres.

its got a 15" dell  4:3 lcd monitor, great vibrent colours with clear perspex over it, and pink sides.

only gripe i have with it is the resolution, mame games look blocky and rough.

its running a avga card and the res is set to 800x600 ive switched off hardware streatch ect, i made a mame scart for a tv

when i run that the colours on the tv arent as vibrent as the lcd and the gfx still look blocky on tv.

[kagaden]

Just finished this week, it took me about 28 hours straight to finish it, and with 2 co-workers helping. It was a nightmare replacing the 33" tube with the 32" LCD, but I think the results of the modification look great. While we were sawing huge chunks out of the cabinet... I wasn't so sure 

Currently running SFIII:3S but is prime for SFIV PC version when that launches:

LCD Display: Samsung LN32A450 32-Inch 720p LCD HDTV
Hanaho Showcase Cabinet
PC: J-PAC, XP, q6600, 9800gt, 500gigs of space, 2 gigs of ram
Software: Mala shelled, Final Burn Alpha + 4x render + Jan's Scanline and 3d tube emulation blitters.






CAN NOT WAIT! 

[G1zm0]

nice cab, nice pics on the lcd, looks better pic than mine, not jagged edges, does the 4x render + Jan's Scanline and 3d tube emulation blitters. help with the authentication of the picture?

might have a hunt and download them for modle2 and mame ect

[Todd H]

nice cab, nice pics on the lcd, looks better pic than mine, not jagged edges, does the 4x render + Jan's Scanline and 3d tube emulation blitters. help with the authentication of the picture?

might have a hunt and download them for modle2 and mame ect

I'm interested in them as well. Where would one find these effects kagaden?

[kagaden]

nice cab, nice pics on the lcd, looks better pic than mine, not jagged edges, does the 4x render + Jan's Scanline and 3d tube emulation blitters. help with the authentication of the picture?

might have a hunt and download them for modle2 and mame ect

I'm interested in them as well. Where would one find these effects kagaden?

This is kinda offtopic but I'll try to make it detailed enough so that there aren't any questions. I found them originally in the GGPO (good game peace out) package and upon further inspection realized that the emulator running them was Final Burn Alpha. I'd absolutely LOVE to see these blitters in MAME. FBA is open source so I don't see why they couldn't make an appearance in a custom mame compile (I know nothing about programming such things though). They're incredible, check them out if you have the chance. For now I'll be running FBA over MAME until I can find a compile with these types of blitters.

Final Burn Alpha Link
http://fba.emuunlim.com/

1) To get to Jan's D3D7 blitters, Go to:
Video > Select Blitter > Enhanced (Direct3D 7)

2) To turn on some of the best scanlines I've seen in an emu, Go to:
Video > Blitter Options > Enable Scanlines

3) To turn on the tube effect, Go to:
Video > Blitter Options > 3d Projection

4) To adjust the angle of the tube effect (to make it look more or less recessed in a cabinet), Go to:
Video > Blitter Options > Set 3d Projection Properties

5) To set 4x High Quality rendering, Go to:
Video > SoftFX Algorithm > HQ4x Filter

6) Set your desired fullscreen resolution, aspect ratio, etc. and load up a FBA supported game.

7) Alt - Enter to get into fullscreen mode.

Enjoy your pseudo-CRT ala LCD screen

[Todd H]

Just downloaded and gave it a try. Holy crap!!!!! I've got to get this working with Multimame! What a gorgeous picture.

[ghettodish]

One of mine....

..note the handles.

[kagaden]

Just downloaded and gave it a try. Holy crap!!!!! I've got to get this working with Multimame! What a gorgeous picture.

If you do, please share your findings This is the cure to my LCD woes in Mame

[kagaden]

One of mine....

..note the handles.

That's nice, what are the handles for, dare I ask? Rotating the monitor? That looks pretty slick!