A new Galaga!

[Singapura]

Microsoft and Namco Bandai want to cash in on the retro craze and will bring out Galaga Legions for Xbox Live Arcade. I so hope there will be a PC version and that it will be cab friendly!



http://kotaku.com/5026439/galaga-legions-hands-on-impressions-heavenly-galaga-hell

[TOK]

Hopefully its better than whats represented in those screenshots. Looks like a big, blurry jumble of crap.

[evilfuzzle]

oh it won't be as bad as the screenshots , i reckon it will kick ass as long as they add a mountain of levels (in the 100's) because it the don't it will suck, i like to do indurence shooters

[javeryh]

Looks good to me:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKv_Zz7j7B0[/youtube]

[WunderCade]

Looks like they overdid it, with an emphasis on graphics and light shows instead of on game play. Which is exactly why modern games are lacking the playability and charm of the classics everyone love.

The only cool factor for me was the positional side guns. Other than that, the game reminded me of the Windows Media Player Visualization feature.

[fjl]

 

I was hoping for a retro sequel like they did with Megaman 9.

[somunny]

I was impressed with what was done for Pacman: Championship Edition.  Still play it, in fact.  If they can update the game while preserving the original spirit, it might be a winner.  I'm cautiously optomistic, for now.

[Ginsu Victim]

If they call it something other than Galaga, I'm all for it. Looks great.

But that's not Galaga....

[javeryh]

bah, you guys sound like my grandfather when DVDs came out...   

[pinballwizard79]

Looks good, agreed it isn't exactly true to the classic Galaga but then again it isn't Elder Scrolls either 

There are a lot more "old school" games on XBL, usually you can choose to play the arcade version + the new "revised" version.

Asteroids is a good example of what I am referring to.

[Mr Kray]

You guys will not be satisfied with anything they bring out!

For a game to succeed today it will have to have awesome graphics otherwise the only people that will buy it will be retro fanboys and there aren't enough of us to make a company like Microsoft make a new Galaga with old graphics.

So basically awesome graphics area requirement, as for game play if it was not in the style of Galaga then you would all be up in arms saying that it's not Galaga and shouldn't use it's name.

The Galaga format is very restricted and really there isn't much you can do with the game play whilst still keeping it similar enough to call it Galaga.

Whether I would play this game I'm not sure but I think they've done a pretty damn good job considering the limitations they have to work with.

[patrickl]

At least it's not so lame as the new Galaga version they included in Namco Museum for the Wii.

[Blanka]

Looks like they gonna use it to promote DirectX 10.1 when it comes to the PC. Even when these visual were possible on a 286 already if you look at the Unreal demo from Future Crew in 1992.

[Level42]

Looks like any  modern style scrolling shooter.

Too many f-ing things moving on screen at the same time, you aimlessly fire at will in the hope to hit something (what, you don't know) and crazy moving about in the hope you're missing any attacking fire.

No skill required.

At least, that's what it looks like....

[Malenko]

I wont judge it until I play it, looking at that movie... I dont think I'll ever have to judge it?

[urbecrisch]

Looks disappointing!  Believe me, I'm all for new innovating ways to bring some of the classics back but this just looks ridiculous.  Not too keen with the horizontal fire either.  Something more like Mutant Storm is what I look for in newer games for the PC that is CAB friendly.  Plays like Robotron but has some kick ass graphics and sound.

[FrizzleFried]

I agree with most that it looks like ass.  What's with everything HAVING to have a glow to it?

Did you see the absurd footage at the beginning?

From what i've seen,  2/10 at best.

[coltchillin]

reminds me of geometry wars for some reason.

[ahofle]

Am I the only one who thinks it's almost a direct copy of Geometry wars?   Same style of graphics, same frenetic shooting of tons of enemies, even those little snake things look the same!  The only difference I see is the Galaga looking ship that only points upwards. 
Still looks cool though -- I too hope it makes it to the PC.

EDIT: DOH coltchillin beat me by a few seconds!

[coltchillin]

 

[RoomTenONine]

It does look like Geometry Wars, unfortunately.  If it were "just another game" it would probably be decent (although I don't think much can top GW for what it is).  However, being a Galaga sequel it seems as if it missed the mark.  Although I'd never know until I actually played it.

[erictrumpet]

I have both an Xbox360 and a MAME cab and I hate when the two overlap. I don't expect to play state-of-the-art games on my cab, and I don't want to play retro remakes on the Xbox. With the modern consoles amazing new capabilities, they should stick to creating brand new games from the ground up. Geometry Wars is a perfect example. That game has "arcade feel" in spades but it is fresh and new and looks and sounds awesome. I'm aware there is a cab-friendly version of Geo Wars, but I actually think it works better on a big TV with surround sound and those little analog sticks under your thumbs, just like Galaga works best standing up in front of a 20-something inch monitor relentlessly pounding away on a huge 1-inch button and shaking the whole machine as you wrestle the stick back and forth...

Eric.

[leapinlew]

Rubbish...

What was Galaga: Destination Earth? Was it not a sequel? It sucked too, just like this will...

Heres some ideas I give them for free, and it could be better.

How about a multiplayer mode where it's split screen with my ship in the middle back to back with another players ship. Keeping the same left right movement, but giving you a feeling of being surrounded by the enemy. I've attached a picture to illustrate.

Or how about a multiplayer mode where your on opposite sides and the enemy in the middle, where you can shoot at the enemies and the other player? Still keeping the left right movement, but introducing a multiplayer aspect.

How about a good story line with an end goal, power ups, or multiple paths?

I mean, I'm fine with updated graphics, but the game play shouldn't change too much because it will  alienate their biggest fans.

[clok]

Well I must admit I'm really getting sick of the "throw as much crap at the player as possible and fill the screen so they cant tell WTH is going on" game style. Pretty is just fine, but when my game is like Wheres Waldo to see bullets I dont like it. And far to many games are doing this, sure it makes it hard, sure it takes ALOT of skill to play um, but they forgot that "FUN" thing. Pretty, hard and takes skill are all part of makeing good games, but haveing them dont mean its a good game. I sometimes think its my age (and honesly I'm almost sure it is) my reflexes are no where near what they where, games from the 80's i could play somewhat succesfully frustrate me quite often now (but I still enjoy um). I cant get throuhg 1/10th the screens I could in Robotron, heck i could do a few levels in defender in the old days, now 2-3 screens is a bonified miracle. Maybe its my frustration that makes me assume its going to be no fun. The last Remake i truley ejoyed as much or almost as much as the original was Tempest 2000, and that came out long enouhg ago I think i still had a reflex or two...

But as with anything, my unplayed opinion of it isnt good, but I will need to play it and see, maybe its more fun to play then to look at.

Clok

[RayB]

It's called "Galaga Legends".
or "Legions"...

 
maybe "Lager".

[leapinlew]

It's called "Galaga Legends".

A TRUE sequel he says...

[pinballwizard79]

I agree with Mr Kray about it being difficult to please everyone with this game.

Javeryh was right too, you guys do sound like paw paws 

Galaga already exists, perhaps you heard of it, they call it Galaga? So with that logic Galaga "next gen HD" wouldnt be Galaga "next gen HD" if it were just plain old Galaga. Because we already have that, its called Galaga.

So I would just play regular Galaga when feeling the need & then play the "fancy, mushroom & seizure fest" Galaga redux in HD as well.

Then you can have your cake & eat it too.

Because if all they did was take Galaga & add a 2nd player or give you freedom to move around everyone would be like "oh all they did was mix Galaga with Asteroids & then add a 2nd player, bah bah bah".

Anyway, I just wanted to type the word Galaga 12 times.

Galaga, there was #12

If you want to play the game with better graphics just play it on your LCD, if you want a story line just play Fable, if you want to play the original play the original, if you want to play the wtf is going on new HD version then fire up your 360!

Dont get too mad at me fellas, I will still need some of your help with my next arcade in a few weeks guys 

[Malenko]

i think our point is, if its a sequel build off the original dont make a new game that has nothing to do with galaga and call it galaga 2.

its like making a new RallyX game but you shoot it out in armor plated cars while racing in the sewer and picking up donut power ups ;but since the car kinda looks like the car from RallyX its Rally X 2

[pinballwizard79]

Mmmmm, doughnuts.

LOL, yeah man I hear you.

All this Galaga talk makes me want to play it.

[patrickl]

It's called "Galaga Legends".

Galaga Legions?

[Level42]

Let's not forget that Galaga was already a lot worse than it's original.

[patrickl]

Let's not forget that Galaga was already a lot worse than it's original.

At least it improved on Space Invaders (the game the prequel of Galaga was based on) 

[Malenko]

Let's not forget that Galaga was already a lot worse than it's original.

I dunno, I couldn't play galaxian anymore after playing galaga. of course Now Ive played DoDonPachi and Mars Matrix but still love Galaga =) I hope the new Galaga game doesnt suck, just for the sake of Galaga . I still think if the game isnt based on Galaga, then it shouldnt be called "Galaga Anything"


I could only type Galaga 7 times, including that one.





GALAGA  make that 8

[leapinlew]

Am I the only one who played Galaga: Destination Earth?

Galaga Destination Earth

[Malenko]

Am I the only one who played Galaga: Destination Earth?

Galaga Destination Earth

yes?

[ark_ader]

My favourite is Galaga 99 on the PC Engine.

[Singapura]

It's true, it has nothing to do with the original and is just a cynical attempt of the gaming "industry" to cash in on an existing name. On the other hand, it will appeal massively to the 5 Japanese gamers that own an Xbox 360 as well as the well to do 30-somethings that remember the name from their highschool days and that's a good thing. I'd love to play this thing on my cab though because that's were arcade games, HD or not, belong.

[Ummon]

It's true, it has nothing to do with the original and is just a cynical attempt of the gaming "industry" to cash in on an existing name.

Bingo. Gaplus was a sequel, and it upped the ante. Galaga '88 is a true sequel if you wanna go there, and it skirted the edge between killer graphics and retaining cool game play. But it also added to the theme in the 'triple ship' feature, as well as the different beasties, the warp modules, etc, etc. There's no need to go any further.

On the other hand, it will appeal massively to the 5 Japanese gamers that own an Xbox 360 as well as the well to do 30-somethings that remember the name from their highschool days

Which 30-somethings are you talking about? The ones who were in grade school when galaga came out? Or the ones who probly only knew it as legend by the time they were old enough to be in highschool?

[danny_galaga]

Rubbish...


Or how about a multiplayer mode where your on opposite sides and the enemy in the middle, where you can shoot at the enemies and the other player? Still keeping the left right movement, but introducing a multiplayer aspect.

[RoomTenONine]

On the other hand, it will appeal massively to the 5 Japanese gamers that own an Xbox 360 as well as the well to do 30-somethings that remember the name from their highschool days

Which 30-somethings are you talking about? The ones who were in grade school when galaga came out? Or the ones who probly only knew it as legend by the time they were old enough to be in highschool?

There are some of us "30 somethings" that were in the arcades with their Dad and/or older brothers at a very young age.  I remember certain early 80's classics arriving new at the local arcade and was barely in elementary school (kindergarten).  I remember begging my Mom to get me the blue Tron sweat shirt for school...not the red one (they both had this awesome translucent plastic disc on it that was iridescent)...after I had watched the movie and after I had played the piss out of the arcade game.

My point being, we didn't have to be in high school when the classics came out to appreciate them or have valid experiences playing them. 

[RetroGreg]

I'm 34 and remember the original in the arcades. I still love it, but I am excited for this new game as well. It will probably be only $10.00 so I don't really know what you all expect. Pac Man CE rocked and this looks like it will be pretty fun.

[jardine]

Rubbish...

What was Galaga: Destination Earth? Was it not a sequel? It sucked too, just like this will...

Heres some ideas I give them for free, and it could be better.

How about a multiplayer mode where it's split screen with my ship in the middle back to back with another players ship. Keeping the same left right movement, but giving you a feeling of being surrounded by the enemy. I've attached a picture to illustrate.

Or how about a multiplayer mode where your on opposite sides and the enemy in the middle, where you can shoot at the enemies and the other player? Still keeping the left right movement, but introducing a multiplayer aspect.

How about a good story line with an end goal, power ups, or multiple paths?

I mean, I'm fine with updated graphics, but the game play shouldn't change too much because it will  alienate their biggest fans.

Looks impressive Leapinlew...i like...maby you should send some of this stuff of to microsoft...see if they are listening to there fans???

As for this whole debate on Galaga....i say stay with the classics.....You will never be able to emulate original feel...shiiittt, we all played these games at the penny arcade wasting quarters or 20c coins as soon as we got outta school, slaming the glass screen and cursing at the bullet that we are sure we missed.

Now its coming out on Xbox live....it will never be the same my friends, so why worry about playability this, feel that, graphics this..it is probably just XBox trying to cash in on this wonderful thing we all call a hobbie!!!

[isucamper]

Gah!  Did arcadecontrols turn into neogaf all of a sudden?  What's with passing judgement based on one blurry video of an incomplete game that you've never played?

About the only thing you can judge the game on at this point is who the developer is... and it's the same team that did the incredible Pac-man Championship Edition.  If you've never played that game, as a retro gamer, you owe it to yourself to try it out.  It's safe to say that the Galaga franchise is in good hands.

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/17620

Seriously, you don't have to like modern games, but they're not going to delete your classics off your hard drive.  There's no reason to be threatened by them.

[leapinlew]

Seriously, you don't have to like modern games, but they're not going to delete your classics off your hard drive.  There's no reason to be threatened by them.

The only "threat" is diluting of a quality product with a sequel that doesn't have the same qualities which brought the original to legendary status.

You've never been bothered when they release a sequel to the original? Examples: Anything George Lucas has done with Star Wars since the originals were released, Star Trek: Enterprise, etc.

It's cool if you don't have passion for anything, but without having a deep attachment to a franchise - you can't really understand what we are talking about. If you do have attachment to any franchise, you should understand the concern.

[isucamper]

I understand exactly what you're saying.  But I can gaurentee this game will not be Galaga:  Episode 1.  Just because George Lucas can't get it right is no reason to be so gaurded.  Like I said, Pac-man CE did the exact opposite of what your talking about.  It brought Pac-man to a new generation and an entirely new setting (Xbox Live).

Now granted, there have been plenty of atrocious updates of classic games (anything with Frogger or Pong in the title) and you all have every reason to be reluctant to give this one a serious look, but we've got a very talented group of people making this Galaga game, and I'm pretty thankful for that.  It's not going to play like the classic Galaga... don't expect it to.  But it's not being designed to play in an arcade for 25 cents a pop.  Now that audience is sitting on their couches looking for a slightly different experience.  Something a little less hardcore challenge-wise and something a little more deep progression-wise.  That doesn't mean you can't have fun with it no matter how much you love the original (and believe me, I do).

[leapinlew]

It brought Pac-man to a new generation and an entirely new setting (Xbox Live).

To me, the new version stayed faithful to the original. It's pretty obvious by watching the video - it's pacman.

It's not going to play like the classic Galaga... don't expect it to. 

Well, I guess thats where we differ. I do expect them to keep some similarities between the old game and new game. It should be similar in controls. Not just some sound samples and similarities in ship design and enemies.

That doesn't mean you can't have fun with it no matter how much you love the original (and believe me, I do).

This is true, but by using the Galaga name - they are setting expectations high. No different than the remake of Star Wars. The enhanced versions sucked. Classic Star Wars was better, unless you like Greedo shooting first... 

Of course people are going to have expectations. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Level42]

Let's not forget that Galaga was already a lot worse than it's original.

I dunno, I couldn't play galaxian anymore after playing galaga.

I didn't like the awkward way the aliens move in Galaga. It doesn't make sense. In Galaxian they moved natural. And the sound. Those sounds were fine on Pac Man, but they are so gay on a shooter .....
I know I'm almost the only one that prefers Galaxian over Galaga, but then, so be it

[leapinlew]

I know I'm almost the only one that prefers Galaxian over Galaga, but then, so be it

To me, the genre got better and better and peaked at Galaga.

Galaxian > Space Invaders
Galaga > Galaxian

I think my brother prefers Galaxian too. It's a good game. I also enjoyed Astro Blasters, Phoenix, and Gorf. Although Gorf is a bit of an oddball in that mix - I liked it.

[Xiaou2]

 From the Video, one can tell that this so called new galaga is ultra crap.

 
 Long ago,  someone made an update to Tempest.   Tempest 2000,  was simply
tempest with all kinda of pixel effects and cycling colors.   It seems kinda
cool at first..  but it wears thin very quickly.. as you cant really make out
what they heck is happening with all that useless garbage all over the screen.

 This is the same thing... but even worse.   Theres lines, blobs, and other
crap all over the place,  and all you can make out is explosions!   There is
no Updated graphics besides the player ship.  Everything else is a downgrade...
where its some ridiculous glowing blob without any details at all.

 The gameplay is crap too.   They give the player way too much firepower, and
thus have to send a zillion enemies out to even create any sense of panic.  Thus
then you have a zillion explosions,  and cant see anything.   

 How the hell do these people get into the game design field?!!!

 This isnt worth $10.  Its not even worth $1!    There are tons of freeware shooters
on the net that kick the crap out of this.

 
 Btw - If you want to play a great shooter.. Check out  Battle Squadron  for the
Amiga.   2 players simultainious action,  highly detailed graphics,  challenging and
excellent gameplay, catchy soundtrack, good sound fx too.   10 billion times
more fun than this new Turd.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LnzE8Ea3g&feature=related[/youtube]

[RayB]

Long ago,  someone made an update to Tempest.   Tempest 2000,  was simply
tempest with all kinda of pixel effects and cycling colors.   It seems kinda
cool at first..  but it wears thin very quickly.. as you cant really make out
what they heck is happening with all that useless garbage all over the screen.

What?! Yet again, your opinion runs completely contrary to everyone else, critics and gamers alike.

First of all, that "someone" was the legendary Jeff Minter. (Perhaps a tad over-rated, but many love his frantic shoot'em ups and music visualizations.)

Tempest 2000 LOOKED like what you say on the surface, but playing it is a different matter entirely. It's a BLAST! I loved it, as did most people. Maybe the "too much going on" problem is unique to you and your spacial-cognitive abilities.

[isucamper]

Tempest 2000 LOOKED like what you say on the surface, but playing it is a different matter entirely.

This needs to be repeated.  You can't really judge a game until you play it...

Unless your FOX News or Jack Thompson.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/01/23/fox-news-follows-mass-effect-bashing-with-some-of-its-own

[Xiaou2]

 First of all,  I DID play it.

 Tempest  ISNT   Tempest  if there is no  SPINNER CONTROL.

 Sorry, but It Sucks compared to the Real deal.

  And just as I said... the visuals became annoying after a certain amount of time.


 Legendary?   Pfff.

 There are zillions of Legendary coders out there who have better games
under their belts than him.

 
 Are you really saying you Like the new Galaga look?!   Its absolutely pathetic.

 As for my spatial ability... Im a high level martial artist.  I have no problem
with quick reaction times,  judging distances,  timing..etc.   However, I do not
like to see a screen filled 90% of the time, with 90% explosions and
useless effects.   It does Nothing but create annoyance and limit visibility...
as well as obscuring artwork...  of course... here there is NO artwork.   Its
a pile of Dog Poo.

[Singapura]

First of all, that "someone" was the legendary Jeff Minter. (Perhaps a tad over-rated, but many love his frantic shoot'em ups and music visualizations.)

Speaking of Minter, the llama llover just made an update of his Robotron clone Gridrunner. I wish he would write something original but as far as I know he never did.

Legendary?   Pfff.

 There are zillions of Legendary coders out there who have better games
under their belts than him.

Being able to write a good game doesn't make one legendary just as being able to make war doesn't make one a warrior. You should know that as a high level martial artist.

[RandyT]

Grid Wars is definitely a cool game.  I'm not so sure about Gridlaga.

It looks more like a technology demo than anything Galaga related.  It might be fun, but the name is like a "stick in the eye"...I can't see it.

RandyT

[Ummon]

My point being, we didn't have to be in high school when the classics came out to appreciate them or have valid experiences playing them. 

Sure, but apparently not common.

 
 Btw - If you want to play a great shooter.. Check out  Battle Squadron  for the
Amiga.   2 players simultainious action,  highly detailed graphics,  challenging and
excellent gameplay, catchy soundtrack...


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LnzE8Ea3g&feature=related[/youtube]

Only if you're a sucker for techno. Scary.

What?! Yet again, your opinion runs completely contrary to everyone else, critics and gamers alike.

First of all, that "someone" was the legendary Jeff Minter. (Perhaps a tad over-rated, but many love his frantic shoot'em ups and music visualizations.)

Tempest 2000 LOOKED like what you say on the surface, but playing it is a different matter entirely. It's a BLAST! I loved it, as did most people. Maybe the "too much going on" problem is unique to you and your spacial-cognitive abilities.

Um, maybe, but I think it's more a matter of 'glitz factor'. 'Frantic shoot'em ups and music visualizations' could explain it.

 First of all,  I DID play it.

 Tempest  ISNT   Tempest  if there is no  SPINNER CONTROL.

 Sorry, but It Sucks compared to the Real deal.

Yeah. What he said.

Gah!  Did arcadecontrols turn into neogaf all of a sudden?  What's with passing judgement based on one blurry video of an incomplete game that you've never played?

It's not a matter of what you say. Think of it like music. Why has there been no original (let alone decent) music since perhaps 2000? Because they don't know how to create it. It's all rehash rip-off. Same in games that try to take off from the original in some DDR visual style. It's  matters of quality and class.

[isucamper]

It's not a matter of what you say. Think of it like music. Why has there been no original (let alone decent) music since perhaps 2000? Because they don't know how to create it.

I'm not even sure how to reply to this... other than I've got to wonder how much new music you've given a solid chance to in the last 10 years.  It's irrelevant to this discussion... but I can't help putting my face in my palm and saying "you're wrong... wrong, wrong, wrong"

It's all rehash rip-off. Same in games that try to take off from the original in some DDR visual style. It's  matters of quality and class.

This thread started off with people complaining that Legions differed too much from the original.  Your you're saying it's rehash?  What's going to make you guys happy??  This discussion is devolving to the point of people just stating opinions for the sake of it without putting any real thought into them.

[Xiaou2]

 I think hes generalizing.   Maybe better to say that the Majority of music today
is crap.    A greater percentage than the past as well.

This thread started off with people complaining that Legions differed too much from the original.  Your you're saying it's rehash?

 I believe he said that MUSIC is rehash.   But the basic thing here is that
todays game makers have almost no clue how to make a good game.
(much like most of todays music)

 Its fine to remake a classic... but,  you should retain the feel of the original.
The mechanics and play should be relatively the same.

 Here we see that is not the case.   All traces of what made Galaga
a true classic... are gone.    If they wanted to release this as  "Trippy-Fighter 1"
then fine... but its the Furthest thing to Galaga,  and does not deserve to
be named as such.

 Its the equivalent of replacing the Dave Mustain of MegaDeth,  with
Garth Brooks and still calling it Megadeth (playing metal?!)   
Completely  FUBAR.


 Btw - I agree... the Music in that shooter is not the greatest (Its no  Ghouls and Ghost).. yet it still fits the game well.   

 My fav shooter is actually  Thunderforce II.   (on sega genesis or  X68000 )   In addition to awesome play and challenge... The Soundtrack to that
game is incredible.  Very original and unique.     

 Some found the Top view levels to be annoying in that game.  Ill admit, it needed
some tweaking.. but it did add some variance.  The side view levels rocked
beyond belief.  (better than any of the sequals  IMOP)

[Singapura]

[Its the equivalent of replacing the Dave Mustain of MegaDeth,  with
Garth Brooks and still calling it Megadeth (playing metal?!)   

I've got a few CD's that do that. One is a bunch of metal bands playing Abba (pretty cool), the others are from the Kronos Quartet playing anything from Slayer to Tool on 4 cello's. But for gaming I agree, the flavour of the original should be retained or the game should be called something else. With Space Invaders on the PSP they managed  to capture the "feel" of the original. With this new Galaga, I'm not so sure. I still want it anyway 

[isucamper]

But the basic thing here is that todays game makers have almost no clue how to make a good game.

I'm sorry, but I've got to take great exception to this.  Much like music, there is more quality in games being produced today than any one person has time to identify or consume.  In fact, I would go as far to say that the best of the best games being produced today are pushing the medium to true art. 

It's not my job to convince any close minded people of this.  I've got to be done with this thread because it's like arguing about what color the sky is with someone who has never been outside.  If you truly believe "that today’s game makers have almost no clue how to make a good game", go play Bioshock, Super Mario Galaxy, Shadow of the Colossus, Portal or anything developed by a little Japanese developer called Clover Studios.  Great, great things are being done in games.  It's your own loss of you're too stubborn to give them a chance.

If these games are too broad in scope for you and you prefer the more focused gameplay experience of your classic arcade games, then you'll be glad to hear that the "Arcade" as we knew it 10-20 years ago is currently enjoying a similar renaissance.  Small experience games are enjoying new life in the form of downloadable content on Xbox Live, Playstation Network, and you're home PC.  Go give Puzzle Quest a download, or Everyday Shooter, or the previously mentioned Pac-man Championship Edition... or the upcoming Galaga Legions.  In fact, as big budget games get more and more expensive to produce, expect the depth in quality of these smaller games to continue to grow. 

The arcade is dead... and that sucks.  Fortunately we've got a great community here dedicated to keeping its memory alive.  But to say that there are no good games (or music) being produced is completely aggravating. 

[leapinlew]

It's not my job to convince any close minded people of this. 

Part of your problem isucamper is saying dumb things like this and insulting nearly everyone. I assume your frustration is specific to a few people, but I can't help but feel insulted.

How about we wait for it to come out and then we'll see how it goes, eh? Until then, I would think it wise for you to not argue about a new "Galaga" on a website dedicated to classic gaming.

[isucamper]

Until then, I would think it wise for you to not argue about a new "Galaga" on a website dedicated to classic gaming.

I didn't bring it up!!

but, point taken

you've all been really helpful to me, I don't want to insult anyone

i just can't keep from speaking my mind when when I see broad sweeping statements being made that I vehemently disagree with

i'll button it up

[leapinlew]

i'll button it up

You don't have to do that, just don't include me in your broad sweeping statements. I didn't take it as such, but this is how flame wars start.

Let's see how this game does, and we can revisit. I know your not staking your reputation on the success or failure of this game.

We good. 

[Xiaou2]

I'm sorry, but I've got to take great exception to this.  Much like music, there is more quality in games being produced today than any one person has time to identify or consume.  In fact, I would go as far to say that the best of the best games being produced today are pushing the medium to true art.


 LoL.   You really are off your rocker.


Bioshock:  Sucks.  Just one of a million FPS games that play just about all the same way. They have been making the same FPS game for the last 15 years on pc.   The
only real change is the graphics and levels of details.   FPS games are boring
and not very challenging.   A game of Robotron is much more exciting and fun.

Super Mario Galaxy - The 2d Marios are much more challenging and more fun.

Portal - Ohh look... ANOTHER FPS!  What a surprise   

 
 Ohh, and the Classics  Never died.   The only thing that happened was that
some money men started to Finally realize that not everyone in the universe
enjoys playing crappy FPS games.

 Tons of players who grew up on older computer systems games,  2d console
games,  as well as the old Arcades ..etc..  all love the classic games.   They
are much more difficult and challenging... are more fun and have higher replay
value.

 
 However... the remakes are pathetic.    The people who made the Original
Spy Hunter were intending to add the ability to let you fly a helicopter...
however... they ran out of resources.   Instead of remaking the game as it
was intended.. and Adding such a feature...  they butchered it and made it
into a generic fps type race game.   Half the fun of Spy Hunter was the ability
to see the other cars wreck from your Oil.   However..   now you cant see the
damage that you are doing with 2 of your rear weapons.

 In fact, it not only sucked the fun out of the game... but also sucked the
challenge out too


 I can site numerous examples where remakes are worse than the original
counterpart - by Miles.   Taking games to a higher art?!  Not hardly.


 If you want me to conceed that 3d graphic details have exceeded the
past... sure.   But that does not make a fun/good game.   In fact, many 3d games
that were revolitionary only 2 yrs ago,  are unplayable to the people who bought
them at that time - mererly because the graphic look is so much better now that
they can not stand to play them.

 However, that does not change the fact that the underlying game still is basically
the exact same.  Crap.

 
 As for game Music..

  Back in the day... They used to use custom synths and invented some of the
most awesome sounding electronic instrumentation.    However, today... they
mostly jsut use the same exact samples that everyone else uses.  Which is
why almost all the groups sound exactly the same.

 Very similar in game music and sound effects.   They actually used to
use custom built synths and haphazardly poke them until they came out
with something that sounded great.    The warm organ-ish sounds from the
game Pole Position are just phenomenal...  and thats only a tiny example.
Todays games mostly use preexisting samples...  and they are usually
boring, unoriginal and flat sounding.

 As for Composition... thats even worse.   They usually just hire some Techno-Mixer
to make some crap that any 6yr old could throw together.  (or hire
some bland group to mix some dull sounding crap)  There is no feeling
or emotion.   No story to tell.  No flair or originality.
 
 Compare this to music in games like Ghouls and Ghost, Strider, Willow, Marble Madness,  and many more.   

 Then go back even further... and listen to the amazing compositions from the C-64
computer.    They are still remaking these great compositions to this very day..
because they last the test of time.  They actually have real substance. 
 

 It would seem to me,  that you are a surface lover.   You fall in love with the
look of the game... rather than the depth of play.   Like many today... you
probably dont even know what it means to work up an adrenalized sweat
such as gotten from a game like Robotron, which puts you to the test
every nanosecond.   

 You probably prefer games that play like walk around movies.   You roam
and roam and roam... and do a little of this and that here and there.

 But to the classic fans... this isnt what we call a good game.   Not even close.


 And Btw - Im far from being a closed minded person.   I listen to almost anything
and can appreciate it for what it is.  I play old games, and have tried a good
deal of the new.  It just makes me even more of a critic, because Ive experienced
so many types and ages of games. 

 Im also a martial artist.. and I can tell you a little secret...   A punch has not
changed in thousands of years.   No new generation can claim to have either
invented it... nor to have made it much any different than the last.   New
or old... games can be good or bad... and that is determined by certain
factors that are beyond generational release date.

[AtomSmasher]

Until then, I would think it wise for you to not argue about a new "Galaga" on a website dedicated to classic gaming.

I didn't bring it up!!

but, point taken

you've all been really helpful to me, I don't want to insult anyone

i just can't keep from speaking my mind when when I see broad sweeping statements being made that I vehemently disagree with

i'll button it up

You should know that there have been many debates with Xiaou2 about newer games and it's pretty clear there is no changing his mind on the subject.  My advice is that after he goes off on a rant (as he just did), the best reaction is to nod your head politely and back away.  When someone says that Portal is just another FPS, then it should be clear that there is no chance of convincing them there are some great modern games.

Back to the topic at hand, I enjoy lot of modern games, but I would have to agree that the new Galaga does not look like a new Galaga and should be named something else.  Remakes and sequels should capture the spirit of the original, while expanding on the gameplay.  Just recently I've been hearing a lot about Fallout 3 and the new bionic commando games, and the best thing I've heard about them is that even though the game are very different from the originals, the gameplay and graphics still actually feel a lot like their predecessors.  This new Galaga just doesn't appear to do that from what can be seen in the video.

I'll agree to wait and see since the developers do have a good track record, but I'm not very optimistic about this one.

[leapinlew]

Back to the topic at hand, I enjoy lot of modern games, but I would have to agree that the new Galaga does not look like a new Galaga and should be named something else.  Remakes and sequels should capture the spirit of the original, while expanding on the gameplay.  Just recently I've been hearing a lot about Fallout 3 and the new bionic commando games, and the best thing I've heard about them is that even though the game are very different from the originals, the gameplay and graphics still actually feel a lot like their predecessors.  This new Galaga just doesn't appear to do that from what can be seen in the video.

I'll agree to wait and see since the developers do have a good track record, but I'm not very optimistic about this one.

well said dude. 

[Ummon]

I've got a few CD's that do that. One is a bunch of metal bands playing Abba (pretty cool), the others are from the Kronos Quartet playing anything from Slayer to Tool on 4 cello's.

Blech. Any time I hear Kronos play some stuff like that, I give a rating of 1, as there's nothing lower. They're awesome players, but they have WEIRD sentiments. For that matter, if they're going to 'arrange' these things, they should add parts. Make 'em better. And I think the four cello group is somebody else. They also did a bunch of Metallica. (Still not into it.) Kronos does a lot of Trent Reznor.

Back to the topic at hand, I enjoy lot of modern games, but I would have to agree that the new Galaga does not look like a new Galaga and should be named something else.  Remakes and sequels should capture the spirit of the original, while expanding on the gameplay.  Just recently I've been hearing a lot about Fallout 3 and the new bionic commando games, and the best thing I've heard about them is that even though the game are very different from the originals, the gameplay and graphics still actually feel a lot like their predecessors.  This new Galaga just doesn't appear to do that from what can be seen in the video.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, too. I didn't say there weren't any good games out there. Really, I don't keep up with new games. They're not the same thing. But they are new experiences. With music, it's really a story of what their influences are and how they ape them. I've heard some exceptions to this, but they're few and far between, and still not remarkable. 'Why' is a long discussion.

[Singapura]

Xiaou2, I'd love to agree with you and I do partly. It's just that I don't think Bioshock and Portal are crappy. And Portal certainly isn't an FPS. I think the added value for old school players is "feeling". When I play Pooyan or Pacman, play a cool game and I get the same feeling I got in the arcades when I was 16. That's better then just the "I play a cool game" feeling I get when I play Bioshock or Portal or any other new game. It's like drinking wine instead of grapejuice.    I used to be an avid C64 fan (member of one of the biggest cracking groups of that time) but the C64 games don't hold the same interest for me. Maybe they might in the future 

It doesn't mean that new games are crap. The marketing people don't bring out old school games because they realised they are better. They just know that the current affluent group is the same 30-40 somethings that used to play the arcade games. The same happens with music. All the old bands are being dug up again to go on tour because the marketeers know it will sell well.

And I think the four cello group is somebody else.

You're right, it's Apocalyptica

[AE35]

Well, what I don't like about all these new games(that goes for Geometry Wars
as well) is that particle-effect look. I'm SOOOOO tired of it. I remember playing
PC in the late 90es (mostly Red Alert and Rogue Spear) and I think it was about
that time those particle-effects took off. I think it's a lousy gimmick and it's used
on everything. EVERYTHING.

Thanks:)

[vputz]

Speaking of Minter, the llama llover just made an update of his Robotron clone Gridrunner. I wish he would write something original but as far as I know he never did.

Whoa, what?  I thought Gridrunner++ was good trippy fun (albeit no Linux port, stiff) but that does look new.  I don't see any mention on the llamasoft site.  What's up?

[RayB]

I agree! Everything new sucks! Everything that's a sequel or based off previous innovations sucks!  In fact, Xiau2 SUCKS! Nothing will ever compare to the original Xiau !

[patrickl]

I agree! Everything new sucks! Everything that's a sequel or based off previous innovations sucks!  In fact, Xiau2 SUCKS! Nothing will ever compare to the original Xiau !

[erictrumpet]

Two issues with Xingiouoiaisio2's diatribe above:

1. sounds composed in the 60s/70s with analog synths were not created by "haphazard poking" -- they were created by carefully and purposefully modifying waveforms through specific patches on a wave generator. I have used some of this gear and believe me you don't get very far just goofing around. You learn the way a sawtooth sounds and what altering specific parameters will do to it, then you carefully compose accordingly.

2. game music composers are as talented and trained as ever, perhaps more than ever, but like in any profession there are those who are good and those who are mediocre/bad. I know two people who make their living composing game music and they do very well and their output is interesting and enjoyable. They put a lot of thought into their music and take it very seriously.

Eric.

[kayoteq]

We've tolerated years of Donkey Kong games that have nothing to do with barrels and ladders..
yet came back with D2K anyway as the 'true sequel'...

Some geek coders could possibly take the same approach with the stuff already in there..


Agalag?

That's just a graphics prom hack. But the wings flap on the start screen , and the text was just an experiment.


All you'd have to do, in theory, is to point the graphics load to another area each designated level.
New enemies each 4th level, same gameplay.

[TOK]

We've tolerated years of Donkey Kong games that have nothing to do with barrels and ladders..
yet came back with D2K anyway as the 'true sequel'...

Some geek coders could possibly take the same approach with the stuff already in there..


Agalag?

That's just a graphics prom hack. But the wings flap on the start screen , and the text was just an experiment.


All you'd have to do, in theory, is to point the graphics load to another area each designated level.
New enemies each 4th level, same gameplay.

I think putting new graphics on top of an existing ROM is what the designer of Mechatron did. Its Robotron with new graphics.
It also has the neat feature of saving the top 40 scores for all to see on both your cab and the net.
http://norrish.force9.co.uk/robotron/

[Tithis]

Portal - Ohh look... ANOTHER FPS!  What a surprise   

Have you even played Portal? Cause if you had I really doubt you would call it 'another FPS'. Its closer to a first person puzzle game then a first person shooter. There is barely any fighting, if making a portal to drop a block on a turret could be called fighting.

[erictrumpet]

Portal is the one game in the last 5 years that has made me say, wow there are still new things to be done out there. It is a brilliant game!

Eric.

[Ummon]

Two issues with Xingiouoiaisio2's diatribe above:

1. sounds composed in the 60s/70s with analog synths were not created by "haphazard poking" -- they were created by carefully and purposefully modifying waveforms through specific patches on a wave generator. I have used some of this gear and believe me you don't get very far just goofing around. You learn the way a sawtooth sounds and what altering specific parameters will do to it, then you carefully compose accordingly.

2. game music composers are as talented and trained as ever, perhaps more than ever, but like in any profession there are those who are good and those who are mediocre/bad. I know two people who make their living composing game music and they do very well and their output is interesting and enjoyable. They put a lot of thought into their music and take it very seriously.

Eric.

1. I think it depends on the composers one's talking about. If you consider people like Vangelis composers, then X is right. Also, it seems many of those involved in game music before, say, the 90s, had a similar level of music instruction.

2. Perhaps trained - although I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are Berklee folks and such, which kinda doesn't count. I know there are some real composers out there doing pop art stuff, though I think many more either 'stay in school' or aren't working.

[Loafmeister]

Everyone is allowed their opinion but calling Portal "another FPS" really indicates the poster didn't try it.  Just because it has a 3d first person perspective doesn't make it "another FPS. To each is own...

Speaking of personal opinion, I like the new galaga.  For those who haven't checked out the vids, please do so. You will note it's very faithful to something galaga brought to the forefront:  enemy wave design.  In an interesting twist, you get a preview of the enemy wave's flight path which compensates for the sensory overload and in turn it seems to add to the gameplay.  Check it out to see for yourselves.   I haven't tried the new Galaga, but I have played a bit of the Pacman Championship Edition and it's quality I feel has ensured the team deserves people try the new game minus the preconceived opinion that "it must sucks".  Pacman CE is that good that respect has been earned imho.

[erictrumpet]

Because of this thread, I fired up the Xbox360 last night and downloaded the demo of Pac Man: Championship Edition. It's not bad, I guess, but after playing it for a few minutes all I wanted to do was play the real thing on my cab. The Xbox is for games like Gears of War and Ninja Gaiden while laying sprawled out on my couch with 5.1 surround sound roaring. Pac Man belongs on a stand up cab!

Eric.

[Xiaou2]

 I could write up a long post about the details... but dont have too much time.
Maybe later.

 However,  the most basic answer is that a first or 3rd person perspective
severely limits playability and originality.

 Out of all the new big commercial games in the last 10+ yrs for pc... its almost
always been FPS type of games.   There has been very little originality at all.

 Just because someone makes a Puzzle out of an FPS, means very little.  Its
still a FPS, and plays the same as an FPS.. while also being even slower.
Personally, I like fast action that keeps you on your toes every
second... so FPS games pretty much put me to sleep.

 I dont mind 1st and 3rd person Racing games..  as that is completely different.
Its very fast moving - and always forwards motion.   

 Most FPS games move slow.. and they are programmed to be easy on you,  because they truely cant have tons of enemies come from behind you.  Its simply woulnt be fair due to controllability,  response times, and lack of the physical senses..  +  no preferial vision that comes with  real eyesight.

 
 No matter how one dresses up Chess.. On a piece of paper... or a
highly detailed wood carved board with inlaid gems and gold...
it will always still be Chess.   That is the "game engine".  The entire
structure of playability.

 2D games generally have greater difficulty,  in that with 3D,  one can simply
take a simple sidestep in Any direction to evade.  However, with 2d, your options
are much more limited, and force you to need quicker reaction times,  and
put you to a much greater test of skill.

 
 As for the New pacman... it looks trippy..  but not really anything special.
Namco had already done a Remake version long ago in their collection series
that beats Microcraps version.   

 Personally, I always prefered the Speedup version of Ms Pacman.. and or a
game of Super Pacman.   The original is too slow for my tastes.   Also, one
cant play Pacman very well without a true 4 way (Physically limited) stick.

[AtomSmasher]

Like I said, just nod your head politely and back away.  Xiaou2 has some strange hatred for modern games and there is no convincing him otherwise, no matter how absurd his arguments may be.

[Xiaou2]

My argument was hardly absurd.   It has real substance... unlike the
Stay away comment.   However..   to each his own.

 Personally, Id rather play a good game of Playtpus  than most
of that commercial FPS crud.


 http://www.squashysoftware.com/platypus.php

[AtomSmasher]

My argument was hardly absurd. 

I know you believe that, which is why I'm not going to debate you on the topic and am telling others not to bother.  No matter what anyone says you will not be changing your mind on the subject.

And even though I know I shouldn't since it's pretty much exactly what I just said I won't do, but I'll also add that your not wrong for disliking modern games, you don't find them fun and that's perfectly understandable, the problem is that you seem to feel everyone else is wrong for liking them because you feel modern games are just bad games.  I'm not a fan of defender, but I'm not going to tell everyone it's a bad game.

[pinballwizard79]

Xiaou2, you sound like the 700 club.... bah bah bah

Here are a few facts:

Forza & vodka is fun.
MLB2K8 tourneys & a BBQ cookout with pals is a good time.
TigerWoods08 on a Sunday morning is relaxing.

&..........Most of all..........In rebuttle to your anti FPS remarks..................Call Of Duty 4 online via my xbox360 on a 1080p LcOs screen with pounding 5.1 surround sound & cans of redbull all around me with a headset of smack talking buddies in my ear is always exciting.

Know what else is fun?

Playing Donkey Kong on a Wells Gardner.

So go play old Galaga, new Galaga, MotoGP07, get a girlfriend & relax a bit.

Oh yeah, wasnt this thread about Galaga......my bad.

[erictrumpet]

Never heard of Platypus -- the screenshots look awesome. On the web site, the programmer whines about some boo hoo woe is me I can't profit from this wah wah b.s. and says he can't offer it for sale anymore. So where can we get it?

Eric.

EDIT: Found it. Man, I hate these free trial then pay games. I know people work hard on these things and deserve compensation but I have a hard time paying for software of any kind. (Perhaps I should start another thread about this, it's an interesting --though surely volatile -- topic. Let's face it, MAME is all about playing games for free that we used to pay $.25 per play for!) Anyway here's the Platypus link:
http://www.download-free-games.com/arcade_game_download/platypus.htm
(I'm sure you can find it elsewhere too, this was just the first google hit)

[RetroGreg]

  As for the New pacman... it looks trippy..  but not really anything special.
Namco had already done a Remake version long ago in their collection series
that beats Microcraps version.   

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac_Man_Championship_Edition

It was made by the original creator of Pac Man. I suggest you actually play it before judging it. 

[erictrumpet]

Well, Indy4 was made by the original creators Spielberg, Luc-ass, and Ford and that movie was an unholy steaming pile of donkey barf. So just because Pac: Championship was made by Toru Iwatani doesn't mean it can't suck. (For the record, I kinda liked it -- but I'd rather play original Pac on my cab. But mostly people in the world don't have the awesome luxury of true arcade gaming like us byoac'ers!)

Eric.

[Loafmeister]

Ugh, that chess example was so far off....  Any game of chess, whether a marble board, wooden pieces, etc., feels the same because the rules don't change; it's purely aesthetics.  Portal uses a 3d engine and you get the FPS point of view but it's a thinking game as opposed to shooting so the ruleset is totally different.  The way you explain it, I'm surprised you like any 2d games since all they require for the last 30 years is to point up/down/left/right and press a fire button.

I'm not going to argue with you, I don't care if you like it or not, but your portraying yourself poorly with your pov.  No problem with you not liking it, there's lots of games I don't like that others do but it seems to me you limit yourself without trying to see the potential in a game.  Too each is own.

Loaf

[Xiaou2]

 Not much time to argue yet.

 About Platypus...   I personally dont buy too much software.   Im fairly
poor... but also,  Im a very tough critic.     But this game was so fricken amazing... that I opened up my wallet with a smile.

 Its old skool shooter with solid gamplay from start to finish.  Jaw
dropping graphics.  Great c64 remade music playing in the background.
Unlike many commercial games..  this game even tops many solid arcade
titles that had entire teams that constructed them.


 Its too bad that the guy who created it, (Anthony Flack) sold it to a company for
such little money.   He created a game that has probably sold
thousands of copies... and made only a few bucks off of it.   So sad 

 At least his game has gotten great exposure.. and his name will
be remembered for such a great new classic masterpiece.

[Spaced Ace]

OMG, talking about overkill....  Sheesh.  Call me old fasion but the new Galaga looks a little beyond my skill. 

I'll take the original anyday.  Its kind of like Tempest 2000.  Man, I thought I was going to love that game, but it sucked too.

"There's no school, like old school!"

[RayB]

Xiau, if you think FPS aren't fast action enough, you've obviously never played Serious Sam. It's the only FPS that actually tired me out, the action is so relentless.

[Xiaou2]

 Speed means very little without balance of control and challenge.

 FPS perspective reduces your control immediately because you can
not see behind you.   It again is reduced because your characters
actions are not translated very well... meaning..  a real human in
a real enviornment can react like 10x faster than a FPS controlled
character.  Not only react faster... but have more fluidity and bodily control.
 
 
 Also, I pretty much say that anyone can beat a FPS game eventually...
where as not too many may have the skill and dedication to beat a
game like Platypus.   Or another example... is getting good enough to
say...  get to level 40 on Robotron.   Took me a year of off/on playing
to finally beat Thunderforce II.

 And now...  can you really say that Serious Sam was more fun than
a good old 2d  Super Mario world  romp?


 To each his own.   But I just dont get any pleasure from FPS games.

[RayB]

And now...  can you really say that Serious Sam was more fun than
a good old 2d  Super Mario world  romp?

I am capable of enjoying both apples and oranges. I refuse to compare them as the same thing.

To each his own.   But I just dont get any pleasure from FPS games.

Exactly.

[SithMaster]

 Also, I pretty much say that anyone can beat a FPS game eventually...
where as not too many may have the skill and dedication to beat a
game like Platypus.   Or another example... is getting good enough to
say...  get to level 40 on Robotron.   Took me a year of off/on playing
to finally beat Thunderforce II.

If the person doesn't like an FPS game why should they have the skill and dedication to beat it?  Also anyone can have the skill and dedication to beat Platypus since anyone can find it fun and start playing.

Question.  Can you see behind yourself?

[AtomSmasher]

I'm surprised no ones brought this topic back now that the game is out.

I played through the demo earlier today and while it does seem like a fairly entertaining game, it doesn't even remotely feel like galaga.  It's way too chaotic and you have turrets that you're constantly rearranging their placement and direction, which is fun at first, but I can see it getting old quick.  The demo was short, so I could be wrong, but that's just my initial impression of the game.  I won't be buying this one.

[isucamper]

Haven't had a chance to try it yet... my life is on hold until I get a decent coat of paint on my cab.   I am in painting hell right now.

Anyway, 8 out of 10 on Gamespot. 

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=960103

That's pretty much as high of a score as you can expect for an Xbox Live game.  By comparison, Pac-Man Championship Edition had an average of 83% on gamerankings.com.  However, they mention in the review that there are better shooters out there on XLA right now, including Ikaruga (which, if you're a fan of classic games, you need to check this one out) and Geometry Wars 2. 

Galaga Legions stays true to that gameplay premise and assaults you with five areas divided into four to five levels. Each level must be played sequentially within an area. Each area is populated by continuous waves of enemies. Lines trace the paths the enemies will take. It is up to you and your two satellites to destroy the enemies as they follow that scripted entrance.

[S0L]

I've played it and I think it's great little game.

Plenty of nods to the original, new levels of strategy and a real old school play feel. Not often you see games that are also all about the scores too!

I can understand people love the original and some don't understand the need for a new revised version, but to me, it doesn't detract from the original and is something new - yet with a classic feel. If you don't want it, no-one is forcing you to play it

It's certainly not a cynical cash in by any means, it's clearly had some love put into it

---
S0L
---

[Xiaou2]

 There are plenty of reason for an Upgrade to Galaga... and if done right, people
would LOVE it.   However, this is Not an upgrade.  Its a Downgrade.

 

[patrickl]

True, they should make Galaga 3D 

Actually there is a 3D Galaga available for the Wii already (Namco Museum)

[Xiaou2]

 3D Does not make everything better.   It usually makes them worse.

 Unless you are talking Stereoscopic 3D  (floats in and out of the
screen via 3d glasses)  ..  then I would agree.

[patrickl]

hence the smiley

[pinballwizard79]

I downloaded the demo, its fun.

[MPS]

Tempest  ISNT   Tempest  if there is no  SPINNER CONTROL.

Xiaou2, you have made it quite clear that you don't like Tempest 2000, and that's fine.  Everyone has their tastes and everyone is entitled to their opinion.  However, you are really making yourself look foolish by spreading misinformation when it is clear you are biased against the game.   

Tempest 2000 on the Jag has support for spinner control.  It was built into the software in anticipation of an Atari spinner that never saw the light of day.  The plans to build a Jag spinner have been available many places on the web for years.....including on this very site.  I have done it myself, and it is a very easy mod for someone who frequents this site and truly appreciates why building your own custom controller is usually better than something bought off the shelf.

http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_spinners.shtml#AtariJaguar

The PSOne version of the same game, Tempest X3, also supports a spinner.  If you don't want to make your own, a Ridge Racer controller works just as well.  That same controller works wonders for the "Pong" and "Breakout" games that Atari/Hasbro Interactive put out during that time. 

[MPS]

I've had a few days to play Galaga Legions.  I'm up to about 2.8 million points, which put me around #480 on the XBLA leaderboard.  I think there are some great gameplay here that pays homage to classic coin-op games in general.  Overall, I'd say it is a good solid game.....that shouldn't have the Galaga name attached to it.

Having Toru Iwatani develop Pac-Man C.E. made all of the difference in the world.  He managed to find the right combination of modernizing a classic while retaining the feel of the original.  Galaga Legions does not do this.  Too many changes in visuals and gameplay mechanics have been made, and the end result is a game that is not Galaga.  Again, I do think it is a very good game....but it ain't Galaga.

[Ortizimo!]

Dont know why i bother posting this since so many already have said the same thing...this thing sucks...Microsoft needs to mind their own @$@#$ business creating other crappy stuff and hardware and leave the arcades along.

This is turning to be just like hollywood, with sequels that SUCK so they can just take $.

Arcades are not meant for the PC unless you count the emu community and for a good, valid reason. Consoles are just that, games with lots of colors and wow effects but no substantial game play. This is why arcades have a hold on gamers and dont die.

Maybe in 50 years someone will be building an retro XP system to play GTA and such. 

[Singapura]

Consoles are just that, games with lots of colors and wow effects but no substantial game play. This is why arcades have a hold on gamers and dont die.

Maybe you should try and join the 21st century  I agree that there is a trend of reviving "old" names to get extra cash but to state that modern consoles don't offer substantial game play is just not true. Games like Bioshock and Metal Gear Solid offer substantially more game play then Galaga or Pacman. "Arcades" don't have a hold of gamers and are slowly but surely dying out. The new Japanese style shooters (of which the new Galaga is a prime example) and fighters are all that keep the arcades alive, at last in Asia. In Europe only slotmachines and a few sit downs can be found in the old arcade halls. Classic arcades games are just like vinyl records, they won't die out as long as there are people around with fond memories of the "old days" but as soon as that generation is gone only a very few "connoisseurs" will be left. I.m.h.o. the best way is to enjoy both the old and the new. Play the classics like they should be played, on a cab but enjoy the new games any way you want to.

[isucamper]

Heh... it's probably a mistake to do this... as there is already so much BS floating around in this thread.

But I'm going to do it anyway!!!!

There's a site called Metacritic which basically compiles all game reviews for all games and averages out the scores into a single rating.  By doing so, games are given a "Metascore" which is the overall score for that game taking into consideration all professional reviews that have been written for it. 

As of today, Galaga Legions is 12 points higher than the original Galaga.

http://www.metacritic.com/search/process?sort=relevance&termType=all&ts=galaga&ty=0

 

[AtomSmasher]

Heh... it's probably a mistake to do this... as there is already so much BS floating around in this thread.

But I'm going to do it anyway!!!!

There's a site called Metacritic which basically compiles all game reviews for all games and averages out the scores into a single rating.  By doing so, games are given a "Metascore" which is the overall score for that game taking into consideration all professional reviews that have been written for it. 

As of today, Galaga Legions is 12 points higher than the original Galaga.

http://www.metacritic.com/search/process?sort=relevance&termType=all&ts=galaga&ty=0

 

Umm...you do realize that the reviews are for the re-release of Galaga on the Xbox 360 and not for the arcade Galaga.  I really doubt there were ever complaints of "iffy-controls" with the original arcade version of Galaga (saw it as a complaint glancing at the reviews of the re-release).

And I don't think anyone who's actually played it have said Galaga Legions is a bad game, just that it shouldn't be called Galaga.

[Xiaou2]

Maybe you should try and join the 21st century  Huh

This has nothing to do with any "Generation".

 A true  Artwork transcends all of time.   

Games like Bioshock and Metal Gear Solid offer substantially more game play then Galaga or Pacman.

 All games have "gameplay".   The question is...  Is that GOOD gameplay?
Pacman, Galaga and Robotron...etc... will always be remembered.   Bioshock
will be forgotten in a few years.


 Like Most FPS games... the Gameplay is basically identical.  Its a certain Kind of
gameplay.   Weather of not its more complex means very little.

 A game like Robotron is much more fun and challenging to play... and unlike
those Fps games,  it never get old. (great replay value)    The gameplay mechanics
are more simple... yet the game is FAR superior.   Its a 'Desert Island' game.
(the one game you would choose if you were stranded on an island... and had the
means to keep it powered)

"Arcades" don't have a hold of gamers and are slowly but surely dying out.

 This is mainly a result in poor gameplay  and stale repeated gameplay types (or
poorly executed and imbalanced). 
IE: All racing games or shooting games.   Nothing original, creative,  or captivating anymore.  Graphics that get old quickly (unlike a game like Outrun, which still looks
like a work of art), and challenge that is non-existent. (games are too easy and childish)
Or simply are designed quarter munchers (no skill required... just need lots of cash
to succeed)

The new Japanese style shooters (of which the new Galaga is a prime example) and fighters are all that keep the arcades alive, at last in Asia.

 I would suspect that several Japanese companies would take great offense
to you putting the new Galaga in the same line as their works.   

 At least with them... they have a team of skilled artists designing detailed
graphics and backgrounds.   New Galaga?!  Pff.  Nothing but special effects.


 And Btw - No... Im not a big fan of the new Japanese shooters... because they
have lost their way.   Too many bullets onscreen, and again as posted.. they
are merely quarter munchers.   A game like Thunderforce II for genesis stomps
them in gamplay and replay.  Its limited continues provide a reason for you to
come back and try again later to beat it.    Popping quarters in to get to the
end merely makes it a movie than a game.. and it loses all its value or reason
to play it more than once.  Success in such a game also means nothing.  Its an
empty victory.   Unlike the year of off and on play it took me to beat TFII... upon which
still holds meaning to me to this day.  It was quite a memorable feat.. unlike when
I beat Blazing Star... which holds no value to me at all.  In fact, I cant even remember
Blazing Star that much..  yet I can recall every single detail on TFII.   That says a Lot.

Classic arcades games are just like vinyl records, they won't die out as long as there are people around with fond memories of the "old days" but as soon as that generation is gone only a very few "connoisseurs" will be left. I.m.h.o. the best way is to enjoy both the old and the new. Play the classics like they should be played, on a cab but enjoy the new games any way you want to.

 It matters not weather a game is New or Old.  Just the same as music or any
other artform.   I will play and even purchase games that are made new today IF
they are good and worth it.   However... that is a real rarity in todays times...
as the quality is severely lacking.  The gameplay "type" does not interest me... or
the gameplay is poorly imbalanced..etc.     

 The graphics on the older games could certainly use updates.. and in fact,
there could be some brilliant expansions on Classic games such as adding the
Helicopter part in Spy Hunter that didnt get to be added in the original due to
time and or hardware constraints. 


 Galaga was never my top favorite shooter... yet, its a fun game,  and has
certain gameplay qualities that make it a game that is always great to
play.    That cant be said for many of clones, remakes, or even other shooters.

 Of course, even Namco screwed up their own sequel to Galaga.  (Gaplus)

 

[Xiaou2]

 
 I want to add..  that this game wouldnt even get noticed if it didnt have the
Galaga name on it. 

 There are tons of better shooters all over the net.  Many of the Freeware
shooters destroy this craptastic game.

[isucamper]

Umm...you do realize that the reviews are for the re-release of Galaga on the Xbox 360 and not for the arcade Galaga.

yes yes, of course. kinda hard to miss the "Xbox 360" tag next to the game's name.  However, besides the controls, the game is just an emulation of the arcade, so there's not a lot else they can get wrong.

Bioshock will be forgotten in a few years.

Dude, I know it's pointless to argue with you, but come on.  Bioshock had some of the most visceral moments in the history of media entertainment.  It does things with it's narrative and emergent gameplay that no classic game can EVER hope to accomplish.  It has won countless awards and is generally accepted to be one of the greatest games ever made.  That doesn't make it better or worse than a classic game, it just makes it different and there's absolutely no reason to compare the two (kinda like apples and oranges).  They both can both exist and provide enjoyment to those that take interest in them.  That being said, Bioshock most definitely won't be forgotten in just a few years.  The emergent aspects of its gameplay are already inspiring and driving other game developers to push things further in terms of the interactive experience.

I don't want to be harsh, but you really come off as not having a clue as to the current state of video games. 

[AtomSmasher]

Umm...you do realize that the reviews are for the re-release of Galaga on the Xbox 360 and not for the arcade Galaga.

yes yes, of course. kinda hard to miss the "Xbox 360" tag next to the game's name.  However, besides the controls, the game is just an emulation of the arcade, so there's not a lot else they can get wrong.

Besides the controls?  Bad controls is all it takes to ruin a game like Galaga.  I'm guessing you never made it very far in Galaga because the because sloppy controls would make the game impossible on higher levels.  Also, if you look at the reviews, most of them mark it down for not having online multiplayer, which is not exactly a feature classic arcade games are known for.

If the point your trying to make by posting the reviews of two 360 games is that the new Galaga is better then the old one, then your on the wrong forums.

[Spaced Ace]

Its garbage.

[Xiaou2]

Bioshock had some of the most visceral moments in the history of media entertainment.   It does things with it's narrative and emergent gameplay that no classic game can EVER hope to accomplish. 

   Many games in history have been designed to create emotional impact.   
Heck, going back to my C64 days... they had two games that used psychological
tactics that scared the crap out of you.   All that, and they didnt even need a movie
or script.

 Later, many RPG's have used interactive storytelling, character interactions and
short animation clips.   Its hardly anything new.    The only thing different is the
available media space they now have - which allows more interactions, and longer
movies...etc.


 

It has won countless awards and is generally accepted to be one of the greatest games ever made.

 I guess because THEY said that - then somehow they must be right.     Just like if
THEY said seafood taste the best... that somehow I shouldnt toss my cookies
when I try to eat it, right?!

 Just like if the TV says that the latest movie is the GREATEST MOVIE EVER
PRODUCED... that I should immediately agree, run to see it,  and funnily wonder
how the heck I COULD BE SO WRONG FOR THINKING THE MOVIE SUCKED!

 Let me give you a clue...  I dont care What other people think.  (Especially paid
for game reviewers).   I go by my own personal experiences and tastes.

That doesn't make it better or worse than a classic game, it just makes it different and there's absolutely no reason to compare the two (kinda like apples and oranges).

 The idea in this thread, was to compare the Original Galaga..  to the Fake galaga.
And, yes, I CAN compare any game to any other game.   Its my right as a humanoid.

 If I find that the movie   Aliens is much better than Alien... then I can say that.   
If I say that I played Robotron, and Played Halo... and found Robotron to be much
more fun....  then that is exactly what I did here.

 Yes, they are different Kinds of games.   And as Ive said countless times before...
Im not a big fan of the 1st person perspective games unless its racing or similar,
for countless reasons.  (Not because Im older.. or that I never played any
FPS games... or that I wanst part of the generation..etc.)


 BioShock at its core... is still a FPS.   Its the same control basically as Doom.
The only changes are interactivity, storyline, graphics, etc.   All of which WOULD have
been put in a game at DOOMs time period... had they had the technology to do so...
as such developments are incredibly OBVIOUS.

 
 None of the improvements change the games Core type.   If you take chess, and
add fancy parts to it... its still chess.   Even if you add a few new things to it.. 
It still plays like chess.  If you were to describe it... you would say,
"Its like Chess, but with..."   Just like if I were to describe a platform game... I might
say that it played like Super Mario World.   Thats a certain game play type. 

 In the last like 20yrs.. the commercial PC gameplay type has just about stayed stale.  The same exact type of play.  (and many of the consoles followed too)
 The only things changed were the obvious things.   Yet basically, the games all play
the same exact way.  Its like playing the same game for 20yrs time.   

 Yet, if you look at the older times... you had such a variety of different game types.
They didnt just make the same gametype over and over again.  There was actual
variety and originality. 


 One of the most popular games in History may actually be Super Mario Brothers.
Its one of the few games that girls and even adults actually played.  Yet... in
all these years... How many big names companies have actually made
a platformer for the PC?

 Do you think that all those Mario players just decided it was better to play
a FPS?  Nope.   It was simply a decision by the industry to keep making crappy
FPS games.    It helps to keep people buying the latest $300 video cards,
and buying new pcs just so they can play the same boring slow game type over
and over again.  (at very low Frames per second)
 

 Today, they make it seem like making a 2d platformer or any other non
FPS game is Ancient and obsolete.   Yet, its a valid gametype.  That would be
like saying that because we have beef... we should take chicken off the menu!
Its ludicrous.


 Yet its funny.. because we have here now a remake of a 2d game... in 2d,
and yet,  they choose to intentionally have it as a Low budget half-arsed project.
Ahh - but they NEEDED the name of the Original to try to make it sell at all.
Now that is the real funny part of it all!

 A game like Robotron may not seem all that complex...  but it wasnt like the game
was produced in a week!   It wasnt Low budget.   And once it was made... they
spent countless hours honing in the perfect levels of difficulty, timings, etc... all to
make the game one of the greatest games that has ever been made.   

 In the arcades... you couldnt just put a game out there.   If it was too easy.. they
wouldnt make any money... but also... the customer would get bored of it in seconds
and never play again.   Yet... to difficult in the first few rounds,  and it may discourage
players altogether.   And then they also had to make sure that there were no
glaring control issues, and ease and flawless operations... right down to developing
their own incredibly sturdy controllers.

 This kind of dedication to perfection, is rarely seen today.  Its a reason why
people get so frustrated in games made today.  Why people are screaming mad
about companies trying to revive a classic in a non classical way. (cheap, low
budget, poor balancing/gameplay, and just plain sloppy)


 The lack of quality software needs to borrow the reputation from a high quality, superiorly designed game.  Amazing.    Kinda like those horrific song remakes
you hear on the radio by the latest pop stars.   Completely butchering classics...
just because they have nothing substantial to offer themselves.   And to make a
quick and easy dollar - without regard to quality and dedication.  (and originality/creativity)
 

That being said, Bioshock most definitely won't be forgotten in just a few years.  The emergent aspects of its gameplay are already inspiring and driving other game developers to push things further in terms of the interactive experience.

 That kind of thing was said for a game like  Wolfenstein and Doom.  And every
few years when something else new came out that tweaked the formula a little bit.
And yet, its not really that impressive at all.   Its simply the logical extension of copying
reality.   That alone does not make a game great.

 I highly doubt people would be firing up an emulator to play Bioshock 20yrs from now.
Neither for nostolgia.. or because it was once called the greatest innovator in video
games of all time!         No... by that time,  FPS will have advanced to the next
level of looks and interactions... and it will pale in comparison.   (Just like most people
couldnt stomach a game of Woldenstein or Doom anymore)

 Yet, people will still be playing Robotron.   Both old generation, and New.  That is
what a true classic game is.   Its a game that is more than just a pretty exterior.  Its
gameplay is highly polished and highly original. 

I don't want to be harsh, but you really come off as not having a clue as to the current state of video games.

 Ive been in the Game scene all my life. Playing the majority of the popular
classics in the arcade on a regular basis.   Owning almost every console, several
non PC computers such as the C64, Amiga..etc, doing a tiny bit of programming,
make game designs myself, and having helped other with their games artwork and
direction. 

 Ive attended game conventions/shows, auctions, etc.  I own a few arcade machines
and pins. Ive built my own pcs since the days of the Amd 300..  and have even been
around before that to play games like Wolfenstein and Simcity on my EX's pc when
they were pretty much brand new.

 Some acquaintances and friends of mine have had many of the latest 3d games...
and so Ive seen them, and played them briefly - of course, not being impressed...
and quit within minutes of play.  (as they all play basically the same as the previous)

 The only thing of recent times that has had any real draw to it has been
Guitar Hero.  (which I own version2)   And even that gametype is getting stale.
(they need to make Keytar (keyboard) Hero.. where one can actually learn to play
real music)

 Yes, Ive pretty much kept up on games.   And maybe its because Ive seen
and played so much... that I am much more critical than others.

 Or maybe its simply because Im not a fan of CGI over real art (or real hand built
models),  and the overused and dreaded FPS engine type.  And the death of the
2d realm merely for the 3d experience - at the sacrifice of superior gameplay...
(I could go on and on)


 To each his own... but to me, this game stinks.

[isucamper]

I'm guessing you never made it very far in Galaga because the because sloppy controls would make the game impossible on higher levels.  Also, if you look at the reviews, most of them mark it down for not having online multiplayer, which is not exactly a feature classic arcade games are known for.

If the point your trying to make by posting the reviews of two 360 games is that the new Galaga is better then the old one, then your on the wrong forums.

Ok, you know what?  This elitist attitude that most of you guys carry around with you is starting to piss me off.  I didn't post my opinion of either Galaga or Galaga Legions.  I posted a link to let others draw from it what they wanted to.  And I didn't do it to make any grand statement about your favorite game of all time, I did it as a joke.  Everyone knows that classic arcade ports are hindered on XBLA because of the horrible digital pad on the 360 controller. 

Where do you get off telling me I'm in the wrong forum?  The name of this thread is "A new Galaga!"  And I posted links to reviews of not only this new Galaga which (I'm assuming) is safe to discuss here (maybe I should have checked with a mod first to be sure it was ok), but also to a PORT of the old Galaga that you all are so inclined to intensely compare it to.  Maybe I am in the wrong forum, as this thread is teaching me that most you guys follow the asinine forum mentality of telling those that don't agree with you that they aren’t welcome.  I've been telling people for months how great this place is, how ready everyone is to help each other and how nice you all are.  But have a single independent thought and this place turns into every other forum on the web. 

These are video games we're discussing here, not the world news.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion without fear of being told to leave.  Even Xiaou2, who at least has the balls to stick to his opinions when everyone is telling him he's wrong and he even attempts to back up his thoughts with logical reasoning (as crazy as that reasoning seems to some of us).  I would so rather deal with someone trying to think logically than someone who tells me to leave the second I say something he doesn't agree with. 

[AtomSmasher]

Ok, you know what?  This elitist attitude that most of you guys carry around with you is starting to piss me off.  I didn't post my opinion of either Galaga or Galaga Legions.  I posted a link to let others draw from it what they wanted to.  And I didn't do it to make any grand statement about your favorite game of all time, I did it as a joke.  Everyone knows that classic arcade ports are hindered on XBLA because of the horrible digital pad on the 360 controller. 

Then why did you try to defend the port and the decision to use the port as an indicator of the reviews of the original game when I pointed out it had poor controls?  And if your goal was to let others draw their opinions from the information, then why are you getting upset when all I'm doing is posting my opinion of it?

Where do you get off telling me I'm in the wrong forum?  The name of this thread is "A new Galaga!"  And I posted links to reviews of not only this new Galaga which (I'm assuming) is safe to discuss here (maybe I should have checked with a mod first to be sure it was ok), but also to a PORT of the old Galaga that you all are so inclined to intensely compare it to.  Maybe I am in the wrong forum, as this thread is teaching me that most you guys follow the asinine forum mentality of telling those that don't agree with you that they aren’t welcome.  I've been telling people for months how great this place is, how ready everyone is to help each other and how nice you all are.  But have a single independent thought and this place turns into every other forum on the web. 

These are video games we're discussing here, not the world news.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion without fear of being told to leave.  Even Xiaou2, who at least has the balls to stick to his opinions when everyone is telling him he's wrong and he even attempts to back up his thoughts with logical reasoning (as crazy as that reasoning seems to some of us).  I would so rather deal with someone trying to think logically than someone who tells me to leave the second I say something he doesn't agree with. 

Wow, so apparently you completely mis-interpreted my last comment.  I wasn't saying not to post your opinions (or information for that matter, since you never posted an opinion) on this forum because thats exactly what this forum is for.  Let me rephrase my last comment:  If your opinion is that Galaga Legions is better then the original Galaga, then you won't find much support for that opinion on a forum dedicated to spending a lot of money to play classic games in their original state.  You will have many people disagreeing with you, which is perfectly fine, but it's something you should be expecting.

[isucamper]

Bioshock had some of the most visceral moments in the history of media entertainment.   It does things with it's narrative and emergent gameplay that no classic game can EVER hope to accomplish. 

   Many games in history have been designed to create emotional impact.   
Heck, going back to my C64 days... they had two games that used psychological
tactics that scared the crap out of you.   All that, and they didnt even need a movie
or script.

 Later, many RPG's have used interactive storytelling, character interactions and
short animation clips.   Its hardly anything new.    The only thing different is the
available media space they now have - which allows more interactions, and longer
movies...etc.


 

It has won countless awards and is generally accepted to be one of the greatest games ever made.

 I guess because THEY said that - then somehow they must be right.     Just like if
THEY said seafood taste the best... that somehow I shouldnt toss my cookies
when I try to eat it, right?!

 Just like if the TV says that the latest movie is the GREATEST MOVIE EVER
PRODUCED... that I should immediately agree, run to see it,  and funnily wonder
how the heck I COULD BE SO WRONG FOR THINKING THE MOVIE SUCKED!

 Let me give you a clue...  I dont care What other people think.  (Especially paid
for game reviewers).   I go by my own personal experiences and tastes.

That doesn't make it better or worse than a classic game, it just makes it different and there's absolutely no reason to compare the two (kinda like apples and oranges).

 The idea in this thread, was to compare the Original Galaga..  to the Fake galaga.
And, yes, I CAN compare any game to any other game.   Its my right as a humanoid.

 If I find that the movie   Aliens is much better than Alien... then I can say that.   
If I say that I played Robotron, and Played Halo... and found Robotron to be much
more fun....  then that is exactly what I did here.

 Yes, they are different Kinds of games.   And as Ive said countless times before...
Im not a big fan of the 1st person perspective games unless its racing or similar,
for countless reasons.  (Not because Im older.. or that I never played any
FPS games... or that I wanst part of the generation..etc.)


 BioShock at its core... is still a FPS.   Its the same control basically as Doom.
The only changes are interactivity, storyline, graphics, etc.   All of which WOULD have
been put in a game at DOOMs time period... had they had the technology to do so...
as such developments are incredibly OBVIOUS.

 
 None of the improvements change the games Core type.   If you take chess, and
add fancy parts to it... its still chess.   Even if you add a few new things to it.. 
It still plays like chess.  If you were to describe it... you would say,
"Its like Chess, but with..."   Just like if I were to describe a platform game... I might
say that it played like Super Mario World.   Thats a certain game play type. 

 In the last like 20yrs.. the commercial PC gameplay type has just about stayed stale.  The same exact type of play.  (and many of the consoles followed too)
 The only things changed were the obvious things.   Yet basically, the games all play
the same exact way.  Its like playing the same game for 20yrs time.   

 Yet, if you look at the older times... you had such a variety of different game types.
They didnt just make the same gametype over and over again.  There was actual
variety and originality. 


 One of the most popular games in History may actually be Super Mario Brothers.
Its one of the few games that girls and even adults actually played.  Yet... in
all these years... How many big names companies have actually made
a platformer for the PC?

 Do you think that all those Mario players just decided it was better to play
a FPS?  Nope.   It was simply a decision by the industry to keep making crappy
FPS games.    It helps to keep people buying the latest $300 video cards,
and buying new pcs just so they can play the same boring slow game type over
and over again.  (at very low Frames per second)
 

 Today, they make it seem like making a 2d platformer or any other non
FPS game is Ancient and obsolete.   Yet, its a valid gametype.  That would be
like saying that because we have beef... we should take chicken off the menu!
Its ludicrous.


 Yet its funny.. because we have here now a remake of a 2d game... in 2d,
and yet,  they choose to intentionally have it as a Low budget half-arsed project.
Ahh - but they NEEDED the name of the Original to try to make it sell at all.
Now that is the real funny part of it all!

 A game like Robotron may not seem all that complex...  but it wasnt like the game
was produced in a week!   It wasnt Low budget.   And once it was made... they
spent countless hours honing in the perfect levels of difficulty, timings, etc... all to
make the game one of the greatest games that has ever been made.   

 In the arcades... you couldnt just put a game out there.   If it was too easy.. they
wouldnt make any money... but also... the customer would get bored of it in seconds
and never play again.   Yet... to difficult in the first few rounds,  and it may discourage
players altogether.   And then they also had to make sure that there were no
glaring control issues, and ease and flawless operations... right down to developing
their own incredibly sturdy controllers.

 This kind of dedication to perfection, is rarely seen today.  Its a reason why
people get so frustrated in games made today.  Why people are screaming mad
about companies trying to revive a classic in a non classical way. (cheap, low
budget, poor balancing/gameplay, and just plain sloppy)


 The lack of quality software needs to borrow the reputation from a high quality, superiorly designed game.  Amazing.    Kinda like those horrific song remakes
you hear on the radio by the latest pop stars.   Completely butchering classics...
just because they have nothing substantial to offer themselves.   And to make a
quick and easy dollar - without regard to quality and dedication.  (and originality/creativity)
 

That being said, Bioshock most definitely won't be forgotten in just a few years.  The emergent aspects of its gameplay are already inspiring and driving other game developers to push things further in terms of the interactive experience.

 That kind of thing was said for a game like  Wolfenstein and Doom.  And every
few years when something else new came out that tweaked the formula a little bit.
And yet, its not really that impressive at all.   Its simply the logical extension of copying
reality.   That alone does not make a game great.

 I highly doubt people would be firing up an emulator to play Bioshock 20yrs from now.
Neither for nostolgia.. or because it was once called the greatest innovator in video
games of all time!         No... by that time,  FPS will have advanced to the next
level of looks and interactions... and it will pale in comparison.   (Just like most people
couldnt stomach a game of Woldenstein or Doom anymore)

 Yet, people will still be playing Robotron.   Both old generation, and New.  That is
what a true classic game is.   Its a game that is more than just a pretty exterior.  Its
gameplay is highly polished and highly original. 

I don't want to be harsh, but you really come off as not having a clue as to the current state of video games.

 Ive been in the Game scene all my life. Playing the majority of the popular
classics in the arcade on a regular basis.   Owning almost every console, several
non PC computers such as the C64, Amiga..etc, doing a tiny bit of programming,
make game designs myself, and having helped other with their games artwork and
direction. 

 Ive attended game conventions/shows, auctions, etc.  I own a few arcade machines
and pins. Ive built my own pcs since the days of the Amd 300..  and have even been
around before that to play games like Wolfenstein and Simcity on my EX's pc when
they were pretty much brand new.

 Some acquaintances and friends of mine have had many of the latest 3d games...
and so Ive seen them, and played them briefly - of course, not being impressed...
and quit within minutes of play.  (as they all play basically the same as the previous)

 The only thing of recent times that has had any real draw to it has been
Guitar Hero.  (which I own version2)   And even that gametype is getting stale.
(they need to make Keytar (keyboard) Hero.. where one can actually learn to play
real music)

 Yes, Ive pretty much kept up on games.   And maybe its because Ive seen
and played so much... that I am much more critical than others.

 Or maybe its simply because Im not a fan of CGI over real art (or real hand built
models),  and the overused and dreaded FPS engine type.  And the death of the
2d realm merely for the 3d experience - at the sacrifice of superior gameplay...
(I could go on and on)


 To each his own... but to me, this game stinks.

I kid you not... I just spent 1 hour typing in replies to each an every one of your points... and when I hit post... my session had timed out.  I seriously want to cry right now.

[isucamper]

If your opinion is that Galaga Legions is better then the original Galaga, then you won't find much support for that opinion on a forum dedicated to spending a lot of money to play classic games in their original state.  You will have many people disagreeing with you, which is perfectly fine, but it's something you should be expecting.

I've never played it, how could I have an opinion?  Honestly, I don't even plan on playing it until after I download Bionic Commando Rearmed and Pixel Junk Eden.  If I did have an opinion and it was that I liked the game, would that opinion be immediatly twisted into that I like Legions more than the original?  Why does it have to be better or worse than the original?  Why can't they both be good?  Why does this thread even have to have anything to do with the original at all?

I'm sorry, I'm still reeling from loosing my last post to Xiaou2... it was really funny and thought provoking.  It really was.  I should know better than trying to go head to head with that guy.  I want my afternooon back.  I should be painting my cab. 

[AtomSmasher]

If I did have an opinion and it was that I liked the game, would that opinion be immediatly twisted into that I like Legions more than the original?  Why does it have to be better or worse than the original?  Why can't they both be good?  Why does this thread even have to have anything to do with the original at all?

Several other people did like the game and no one has twisted their words to mean they like it over the original Galaga.  You specifically brought up that Galaga Legions was better reviewed then a poor re-release of the original, and stated it in such a way to look like Galaga Legions was better reviewed then the original arcade version of Galaga.  I brought up the errors of your comparision, and you then defended your comparision (essentially saying that the original Galaga was equal to the re-release, even though the re-release had flaws that the original did not have) which could only make me think that you did like Legions over the original.  Obviously that point wasn't completely clear which is why I phrased my comment about your point in the form of a question.

And this thread has to do with the original because they used the name of the original on the new game.  As MPS said, "Overall, I'd say it is a good solid game.....that shouldn't have the Galaga name attached to it.",  which sums it up nicely.

[Visitor Q]

WOW! That looks like .

[Xiaou2]

 hehe.. sorry man.    I learned the hard way too.     Always save your post to a text file before hitting send   

 As for Bionic Commando Rearmed, its a real rarity that someone spends time to
get that level of classic translation.   It actually looks fairly faithful to the original,
and isnt merely a special effects game like this Galacrap.  Very nice details and
subtle use of effects. (Though main characters are a bit unrefined and need more
shading contrasts)

 I tried to play the original BC on an emulator to see what it was all about, and
I couldnt get into it.  I can say that I honestly didnt give it too much time,  and
thought to try it again at a later time. 

 However, from looking at the vids... the main complaint I see is the slow pace that
the character walks at... and the lack of aggressive enemy attacks.  Its like the
enemies are sitting around waiting for a sign from the heavens to start their attacks...
and even when they do... its very slow and not very aggressive.   

 Even in a slowish game like Shinobi... at least the walk pace is a bit faster.. and the
enemies are much more aggressive.  Or in Ghouls and Ghost.. Walk pace was slower...yet the enemies were relentlessly attacking.. giving you no time to notice the
slower scroll speed.  Always giving you some challenge to - rather than merely walking
about without much worry as seen here.   Ahh well... at least we have the classics
 

Anyways...
 Enjoy the rest of your night.

 Peace

[isucamper]

You specifically brought up that Galaga Legions was better reviewed then a poor re-release of the original, and stated it in such a way to look like Galaga Legions was better reviewed then the original arcade version of Galaga.  I brought up the errors of your comparision, and you then defended your comparision (essentially saying that the original Galaga was equal to the re-release, even though the re-release had flaws that the original did not have) which could only make me think that you did like Legions over the original.

When the F did I say that???!!!!

Here's what I said.

However, besides the controls, the game is just an emulation of the arcade, so there's not a lot else they can get wrong.

Ahh quotes... they do there job don't they.  Being an emulation, the game is as close the the original as possible from a software standpoint.  Control issues arise given the asstacular Xbox 360 controller... however, given that the option to buy (or make) an arcade stick for the 360 exists, it is a circumventable issue.  

That being the case, I in no way endorse the use of Metacritic as a means of resolveing the endless "my game is better than your game" internet forum debate.  It's simply a point of conversation.  Furthermore, I hope you understand that if a classic game such as the original Galaga were to be put through the modern review process, it probably wouldn't score a whole lot higher than the Xbox 360 port.  These scales are built around what the mainstream audience is looking for in games.  You give a classic game to a 20s something game journalist, he/she is not going to know what to do with it.  

So, just so I'm perfectly clear with my opinions since you seem to want to pick apart everything I say, I feel like this comparison of old vs new Galaga to be about as meaningful as a screen door on a battleship.  They are different games from different eras and the only people who can subjectively make such a call are those that have an intimate understanding of both types of games, the environments under which they were conceived, and the different goals of their varying gameplay.  The reviews are in for Galaga Legions, and they aren't bad... so says professional journalists that are comparing it to everything else that has been released recently.  The original is a classic that will be remembered for as long as there is electricity to power our cabinets.  That's about the end of the story right there.  

[isucamper]

 hehe.. sorry man.    I learned the hard way too.     Always save your post to a text file before hitting send   

I guess so... its still eating me up... it was epic

Bionic Commando was a great, great game... one of the most unique platformers ever... but getting your head around the fact that it's a platformer with no jump button takes some time.  Not sure how it would hold up for someone today who has never played it, but it's one of my favorites.

[AtomSmasher]

You specifically brought up that Galaga Legions was better reviewed then a poor re-release of the original, and stated it in such a way to look like Galaga Legions was better reviewed then the original arcade version of Galaga.  I brought up the errors of your comparision, and you then defended your comparision (essentially saying that the original Galaga was equal to the re-release, even though the re-release had flaws that the original did not have) which could only make me think that you did like Legions over the original.

When the F did I say that???!!!!

Here's what I said.

However, besides the controls, the game is just an emulation of the arcade, so there's not a lot else they can get wrong.

Ahh quotes... they do there job don't they.  Being an emulation, the game is as close the the original as possible from a software standpoint.  Control issues arise given the asstacular Xbox 360 controller... however, given that the option to buy (or make) an arcade stick for the 360 exists, it is a circumventable issue.  

I'm confused.  You say "when the F did I say that" about my comment about you defending the comparision, then you go and defend the comparision again.  Very odd.  Anyways the reviews called the controls "sluggish" and "iffy" which may or may not be corrected with an arcade stick, but the reviews were done with the 360 gamepad, so the ability to correct the controls using a non-standard controller wasn't a factor in their scoring.

I stand by my opinion that the reviews of the port of Galaga does not accurately reflect the reviews of the original arcade Galaga because the port was poorly done.  You're entitled to your opinion that the reviews of the port do reflect the reviews of the original, even though I think you are way off.

I feel like this comparison of old vs new Galaga to be about as meaningful as a screen door on a battleship

Then why did you bring up the comparision in the first place?  The main complaint most people were saying is that they are too different to have the same name, not that the new game was bad compared to the old one.   

[AtomSmasher]

Also, Bionic Commando Rearmed was very well done.  It's basically the original BC with updated graphics, improved boss battles, and a number other minor things thrown in, but the gameplay is pretty much exactly the same.

Also, I recently bought the game Braid which is a new original platformer with very cool use of time manipulation and a great story. 

Both of which are well worth the money IMO.

[isucamper]

If defending the review of the port is the same thing as saying that a review of the port is just as good as a review of the original, then I said it. 

But nowhere did I ever say that a review of the port should be representative of a review of the original arcade version of Galaga.  Obviously, the arcade is going to play better.  You made a jump in logic that I did intend to be implied.  It is however, the closest piece of objective data that we have to compare it to, and is not totally useless if applied with the correct footnote.  Forgive me for trying to bring a bit of hard objective data into a very subjective conversation. 

Braid also looks quite good.  Another game in a long list of games I'm getting behind on thanks to this arcade building stuff.  Seroiously though, this has been an incredible summer for PSN and XBLA.  The arcade is really being reborn as downloadable games on the consoles. 

[Ummon]

Or you could enter a large number in the timer. That is, if you don't have the 'keep me signed in' box checked.

[AtomSmasher]

If defending the review of the port is the same thing as saying that a review of the port is just as good as a review of the original, then I said it. 

But nowhere did I ever say that a review of the port should be representative of a review of the original arcade version of Galaga.  Obviously, the arcade is going to play better.  You made a jump in logic that I did intend to be implied.  It is however, the closest piece of objective data that we have to compare it to, and is not totally useless if applied with the correct footnote.  Forgive me for trying to bring a bit of hard objective data into a very subjective conversation. 

As of today, Galaga Legions is 12 points higher than the original Galaga.

That line from your first post is why I assumed you were using the review of the port as indicative of reviews for the original since you called it "original Galaga."  Then when I pointed out it was only a port on the 360 you started to get defensive about it, which seemed to confirm my assumption.  I guess we both misunderstood each other at one point or another.

Anyways, you should download the demo and let us know what you think since I prefer hearing reviews from other classic game enthusiasts on games like these, instead hearing what professional reviewers think of the game.   

[isucamper]

As of today, Galaga Legions is 12 points higher than the original Galaga.

That line from your first post is why I assumed you were using the review of the port as indicative of reviews for the original since you called it "original Galaga."

yeah, it's a port of the original galaga... i'm not sure what we're getting hung up on here

[AtomSmasher]

As of today, Galaga Legions is 12 points higher than the original Galaga.

That line from your first post is why I assumed you were using the review of the port as indicative of reviews for the original since you called it "original Galaga."

yeah, it's a port of the original galaga... i'm not sure what we're getting hung up on here

Sigh.... I thought we cleared all of this up in the last few posts.

[ahofle]

I didn't realize Bioshock was considered to be one of the "greatest games of all time".  Seemed like your average FPS to me (game starts with a cataclysmic event, you start out with no weapons, eventually gain weapons and powers, kill lots of baddies, yada yada yada).  Beautiful graphics and creepy atmosphere for sure, but I would not even list it anywhere near the best games of all time.  I got bored with it pretty quickly and moved on to other games.  I guess I need to finish playing it to see what I'm missing.

[javeryh]

I didn't realize Bioshock was considered to be one of the "greatest games of all time".  Seemed like your average FPS to me (game starts with a cataclysmic event, you start out with no weapons, eventually gain weapons and powers, kill lots of baddies, yada yada yada).  Beautiful graphics and creepy atmosphere for sure, but I would not even list it anywhere near the best games of all time.  I got bored with it pretty quickly and moved on to other games.  I guess I need to finish playing it to see what I'm missing.

Bioshock was fantastic, IMO.  I don't play a lot of FPS games (I couldn't get into Halo or Call of Duty) but I LOVED Bioshock.  The city of Rapture was so well thought out - it was almost believable.  I don't think it's the best game of all time but it's certainly somewhere on the list.

[AtomSmasher]

I didn't realize Bioshock was considered to be one of the "greatest games of all time".  Seemed like your average FPS to me (game starts with a cataclysmic event, you start out with no weapons, eventually gain weapons and powers, kill lots of baddies, yada yada yada).  Beautiful graphics and creepy atmosphere for sure, but I would not even list it anywhere near the best games of all time.  I got bored with it pretty quickly and moved on to other games.  I guess I need to finish playing it to see what I'm missing.

Bioshock was fantastic, IMO.  I don't play a lot of FPS games (I couldn't get into Halo or Call of Duty) but I LOVED Bioshock.  The city of Rapture was so well thought out - it was almost believable.  I don't think it's the best game of all time but it's certainly somewhere on the list.

The storyline and atmosphere in the game were brilliant, however I would only rate the gameplay as good, not great.  The gameplay was actually dumbed down from it's predecessor System Shock 2, which often is considered one of the greatest games of all time.  Bioshock was one of the best games of last year, but not of all time.