Star Wars/ revenge form Mars Replacemnt LCD retro Kit

[Rickn]

I posted this in the monitor forum, perhaps it should have been here??

Hi Guys here is a post I made on the CGCA forum I also frequent....

I keep getting inquiries on replacement boards or monitors for these 2 pin machines... thoght you guys may be interested??

turns out Vidiot but down a Revenge from Mars today.

We fixed the CPU, one of the 5 caps ... still a no go. Then checked the power diode, replaced it and "Bingo"

Changed the tube and chassis, now the monitor is up and running.

Now the fun part... we connected the new LCD I have been developing. It does many CGA, mid-res games of course VGA and higher.

Preliminary results:
- Looks like it will be a fantastic retro kit.
- Less heat than the monitor so should improve the relaibility of the CPU
- Direct connection to the CPU so no worries about that troublesome 10 pin Molex.
- it will take CGA and VGA so now you can actaully see the boot screen. It will be forward adaptable to the new core being developed at VGA.
- I have been working with suppliers as how to program the LCD, so this is a custom.
- mechanical fit is easy.

We will keep you posted but I am in the process of doing the first 100 pcs of this LCD. it may take another 8 weeks but what an option for both the Starwars and revence fro Mars Pin.

I will be posting a few of the preliminary pictures on my website in the next couple days

www.niemandisplays.com

By the way Vidiot, thanks for being the guinea pig and leaving your pin at the shop to complete the development. If I missed anything --- chime in.

Rick@Niemandisplays.com
_________________
Rick Nieman
President
Nieman Video Displays
1023 Rife Rd Un 10, Cambridge N1R5S3
519-621-1722
 

[Rickn]

Just to Clarify this is for Pin2000 not Starwars that had the vector monitor.

Rick

[Q*Bert_OP]

Hmmm...this sounds interesting....I'd assume the contrast is better than the original monitor?

[shardian]

Hmmm...this sounds interesting....I'd assume the contrast is better than the original monitor?

LCD's have nowhere near the contrast of a CRT monitor.

[Rickn]

Hi Guys, I have been in contact with NU Core and we are both very excited about their new platform and our retro kit. You may want to take a minute to go to this link http://cgcc.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16553 to see more.

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays,com

[ArcadeBliss]

So what is the current status regarding an LCD replacement? I just acquired a RFM and am very interested in this product.

[ChadTower]

NuCore

[ArcadeBliss]

NuCore

I am fully aware of what is happening with nucore. I was inquiring about the LCD retrofit.

[Rickn]

Sorry I missed a few of the posts.

Here is an update.

The retro kit is pretty much done. We are doing a bit of fine tuning, but most of that is actually with the RFM pin itself.

Plans are in the works to possibly take it to the Pin show in Niagara Falls NY later this month http://www.gamesforamusement.com/index_files/Page310.htm.

If you are interested the LCD with the mounting plate is $360 USD plus freight.

Rickn
Rick@niemandisplays.com

[Jeff AMN]

This makes me even more eager to find a good deal on a Revenge From Mars. Between this and Nu Core there's new life in these machines.

[ChadTower]

Plans are in the works to possibly take it to the Pin show in Niagara Falls NY later this month http://www.gamesforamusement.com/index_files/Page310.htm.

I love how the priorities are in proper order.  Check out the size of the BBQ area vs the pinball area.

EDIT:  odd that the labels show there but not here.  Yellow box is BBQ, red is pinball.



Rick, I can't see that thread from here.  Does that price include a converter to make it work with the current hardware or is it 60hz only?  The flyback on my RFM is dying fast but I don't have other reason to convert to NuCore yet.

[Rickn]

no converter is required. It will do RFM as a plug n play and we expect it to do fine with the nu-core as well. That is one of the advantages.
It also runs a lot cooler than the CRT monitor so the CPU does not get near the issues from heat.

[ChadTower]

So you have an LCD that can handle 15khz AND 60khz via VGA?

That's pretty big news for this whole forum nevermind pin2k.

[Jeff AMN]

This makes me even more eager to find a good deal on a Revenge From Mars. Between this and Nu Core there's new life in these machines.

Beware that Revenge from Mars is a piss easy game that gets old quick.  I enjoy it the every three years or so I play it and that's often enough.

Yeah, I know. Back when the pin2k games were coming out they were pretty common in all of the arcades out here. I've played both quite a bit. Back in the day I thought RFM was decent and that SWE1 was a bit of a dud. I'd like to own one of them (preferably RFM) a bit for the novelty and as a neat compliment to my collection.

[Rickn]

Let's spice it up a little.

The LCD has a standard 15 pin sub-d connector for use at 31khz or Higher. It comes with an adapter (purely for connection no active components) to adapt from the 15 pin to 6 bare wires for connection to Jamma.

It will accept direct connection for 15K as well as 24 K (mid res) and higher.

Depending on stock situation 10", 12" 15" 17" 19" in 4:3 aspect ratio. 26", 32" and 42" in 16:9 aspect ratio.

47" is special order.

Still have, 24.8" 27' 32" and 39 " CRT monitors in various resolutions. I plan to be the last guy on the block with CRT monitors.

thanks to everyone on the forum for the interest and support.

Rick

[ChadTower]

Is this the first drop in 19" 4:3 LCD that accepts direct 15k connection or did I just miss others somehow?

EDIT:  guess I wasn't paying attention.

So Ken, other than the mounting plate, is your LCD fundamentally different from that one?  Price looks comparable too.

[Rickn]

No Adapter.
Be careful as quite often these adapters that are available will not accept small variances in the horizontal scan rate. It took us 2 years to get where we are and so far it takes everything we throw at it as far as games.

This is accomplished through proper programming of the A/D board.

[ChadTower]

I'd love to see one of these LCDs just to evaluate black level.  Without proper black level the pin2k effect will really suffer.

[Rickn]

In response to the last 2 posts,,,

- The reason we are a little late out of the gate on LCD's that do the native resolution is simple... we ant it right before we put our name on it.

Brief explanation

An LCD consists of 3 to 4 major components
- Power supply, usually 12 volts
- inverter, basicaly a switch mode supply that outputs about 1300 volts to supply the back lights of the LCD.
- the LCD panel, this is the glass wih backlights and some other electronics. The panel as an LCD is a digital device and is specific to the resolution such as 800X600m 1024X768 etc.
Last component is the A/D board (analogue to digital converter) this takes the analogue signal from an arcade type board and converts it to digital that the LCD panel can accept.
In a nutshell, if the frequency is not mathematicaly converter you get a blacj sceen or "unsupported resolution?
I tested converters and other competition and none accepted so many variations in signal. I actualy have 100 pcs of a 19" that claimed to but now only sell it as a VGA LCD,

As far as black level goes, everyone that has een it is impressed.

[ChadTower]

I keep wondering why this is seen as such a challenge.  Is it that hard to fabricate one out of 1/4" plywood or are most pin collectors really that bad at designing anything themselves?

[Jeff AMN]

I keep wondering why this is seen as such a challenge.  Is it that hard to fabricate one out of 1/4" plywood or are most pin collectors really that bad at designing anything themselves?

They want someone to design it for them and mark it up 500%. I love the pinball hobby, but I'm continually amazed at how expensive accessories, mods, and fixes are for these machines. I get that the buying audience is small, but a set of target decals for a single game is easily going to surpass $20. Some toy mods are well over $100 for what amounts to $2 worth of materials and maybe $10 worth of time.

[Pinball Wizard]

This makes me even more eager to find a good deal on a Revenge From Mars. Between this and Nu Core there's new life in these machines.

Beware that Revenge from Mars is a piss easy game that gets old quick.  I enjoy it the every three years or so I play it and that's often enough.

I have to agree with you there. Star Wars Eps. 1 is even worse. Personally, I want to own a P2K machine specifically for novelty. Other than that I have no other interest in it. This whole LCD thing kind of sounds expensive. I'd prefer to put that money into doing a complete restore of several of my pins.

[ChadTower]

You can do a complete restore on several pins for $360?

[Pinball Wizard]

Well depends on the shape. Most pins I have (still have yet to restore any but am about to get in over my head in one) need a strip, use some Novus, and put back together with a new rubber set and flipper rebuild kit sometimes, and they are good to go. It's only a prediction but most of my pins aren't beaten to death to really need that much money put into them.

[ChadTower]

That's just a shop job.  A restoration is an entirely different matter.

[shardian]

Well depends on the shape. Most pins I have (still have yet to restore any but am about to get in over my head in one) need a strip, use some Novus, and put back together with a new rubber set and flipper rebuild kit sometimes, and they are good to go. It's only a prediction but most of my pins aren't beaten to death to really need that much money put into them.

That's the 'op special' way to do a complete resto  . What you described in reality is a maintence shop job. Restore and shop are different terms.

[Rickn]

I am not sure, but is this getting a little off track of the original thread? Perhaps it is just me?

What we have for the $360 is a complete open frame industrial LCD that takes the orinal CGA signal that RFm started with. It also includes a metal mounting plate.

The LCD will do other resolutions such as 24 Khz VGA and higher.

We do not do restores on Pins as such, we really developed the kit to respond to requests from collectors. We hope it benefits the community.

 

[ChadTower]

I am not sure, but is this getting a little off track of the original thread? Perhaps it is just me?

What we have for the $360 is a complete open frame industrial LCD that takes the orinal CGA signal that RFm started with. It also includes a metal mounting plate.

The LCD will do other resolutions such as 24 Khz VGA and higher.

We do not do restores on Pins as such, we really developed the kit to respond to requests from collectors. We hope it benefits the community.

It's not you, Rick, that's how it goes around here.    Conversations tend to wander.

What's the difference between an industrial LCD and a consumer PC monitor?

[ChadTower]

That's why I asked about the difference between an industrial LCD, which he did specify, and a consumer LCD.  Maybe the consumer LCD just doesn't have the same amount of lifespan.

[Rickn]

I am not suggesting you can get VGA from the RFM 2k, It is standard res/CGA. The LCD will accept that and later if you go with Nucore, you are still good as it will also do VGA.

A few differences that you need to be aware of;
- Our A/d is programmed to accept all these resolutions, retail is not.
- ours is open frame, no need to de-case,
- ours has technical support I stock spare A/D boards as well as power supplies and inverters.
- Ours have higher operating ranges as far as temperature goes.
- Our kit is formed metal not wood.

- as far vas the adapter route goes, everytime you convert a signal ther is degradation.


In any case what evre route you go good luck.

Rick

[RayB]

Don't mind Jim, he's always saying crap...  He probably thinks you're some hobbyist working out of a garage. 

[Rickn]

Hey, Jim, thanks for The feedback.

I am a believer that all feedback is important, whether it be negative or positive, The negative actually makes you stronger as then you know what to fix.

As far as Happ and some of the others, I tested a lot of suppliers, and my prerequisite was always to be able to program the A.D board myself.

I took the time and care to do it right,,, BTW give Happ a call ask them if they stock spare A/D boards, inverters or for that matter do they know what they are.

Ask them for a schematic on say their Makvision monitors or Vision Pro.

Ask them how to troubleshoot say a dead monitor.

Curious, let us know how you make out?

Guess I am stirring p some of that Cleavland Steamer.

That is why our LCD will accept more resolutions than any others that I tested.

I have been in this business for over 25 years.

In any case I am always here and ready to help.

Rick

[ChadTower]

What's the difference between an industrial LCD and a consumer PC monitor?

Rick, could you answer this one for us?  I have an RFM with a dying flyback and am considering my options.

[Rickn]

Sorry Chad, missed the question?

First unless there is arcing around the flyback, not likely the problem.

If so and you do not see any cracks etc, power down and blow off all tghe dust that gas collected they become carbonzed and conduct.

Otherwise that is the symptom that suggests "dying flyback"

Rick

[Rickn]

Hey jim. I like to stay educated and went to 8liners.com looking for that converter you mentioned.

I am still of the belief that if you take CGA and convert to VGA and then the LCD converts it to the panel resolution.... then the picture will not be that good.

I tested a bunch and was not happy with the results and sure did not find any for $20.

Can you please share that link as I would be sure open to buying one for evaluation.

thanks

Rick

[ChadTower]

Sorry Chad, missed the question?

Asked multiple times in this thread by multiple people... what is the difference, in the panel itself and not the converter, between the "industrial LCD" you mention and a consumer PC monitor?

First unless there is arcing around the flyback, not likely the problem.

It's true that I have not checked to see if it has ever been capped.  Every time I have ever seen a game start up clear, then lose focus slowly over 15 minutes, it's been a dying flyback.

[Rickn]

Tried that one and it does not meet the performance needs when used with an LCD. In fact I have tried probably close to 15 different ones, not happy with any of them for LCD use.

"Alright for CRT type use" but just.

Keep in mind that what you are doing in this case is using the converter to convert a 15.75khs signal so the LCD will accept it at 31khz and then internally convert it to a digital signal that will be accepted by whatever the resolution the panel is.

Sometimes the panel is 800X60, sometimes 1080X764 or higher.

Those are the 2 reasons the converter does not perform as well.
3 years of research??? hell I have been in this business for over 25 years, that is why I love to try to help people that want the help.

[ChadTower]

Bah, my RFM DOES have a dying flyback.  Just checked, it's a k7200, and has a crack by the focus knob.   

For the time being I think I'm going to hunt down a new flyback.

[Rickn]

Hey Guys, if you are interested, visit http://www.niemandisplays.com/nieman_video_displays_013.htm

The pictures of the LCD do not justify the end results, (hard to get a good picture with the reflection of the glass). Results amazing.
Great solution as it cobers the original Pin 2000 and just waiting for your nu-core update!!
Interested contact us.

[Rickn]

Hi guys I have had a few calls after the Revenge from Mars went to the Niagara Pin show. Mostly, brightness, contrast and black level.
Looking for some unbiased opinions on the kit and the pictiure quality. Personally I thought it was great... but help out if you have an opinion.

thanks

Rick

[Jeff AMN]

How would this be considered spam?!

[Rickn]

Gee, if it is spam, I apologize. I was just trying to get other peoples opinionin order to answer these vary questions asked early in the thread/ post.

[ChadTower]

Has someone here actually bought the kit?  If they have I'd like to talk to them directly.

[Jeff AMN]

I don't see the reason behind giving a guy a hard time that's trying to improve the options for people who are looking to repair, maintain, or restore pinball machines. Rick is a well-known and well-respected guy around here, especially with the arcade fellas, and I don't see why he should be catching any flak for asking the community's help in improving his products.

[ChadTower]

I don't see the reason behind giving a guy a hard time that's trying to improve the options for people who are looking to repair, maintain, or restore pinball machines. Rick is a well-known and well-respected guy around here, especially with the arcade fellas, and I don't see why he should be catching any flak for asking the community's help in improving his products.

I'm not giving him a hard time - I would really like to talk to someone who has the kit.  The only real issue I have is the fact that I asked him a direct question multiple times and got nothing even resembling an answer.  It isn't smart to buy pricey specialized products without the ability to ask questions beforehand.

[ChadTower]

If you are interested the LCD with the mounting plate is $360 USD plus freight.

Rickn
Rick@niemandisplays.com

That's what I have been going by.

[truevidiot]

Hello guys,

I have Rick’s the LCD kit in my RFM pinball from http://niemandisplays.com/
Rick has a large warehouse in the Cambridge, ON area and has been in the arcade display field for 30+ years. I have been bringing him games from my route to fix or retro fit CRT and LCD into for around 3 years and he has always been a great help and always goes the extra mile for my self and others.

My RFM kit as explained from Rick is a commercial frame LCD monitor with a custom metal formed monitor bezel that fits into the existing RFM tube cut out to replace the old CRT.

The biggest draw for me is that Rick was able to correct the sync problems that I had when testing other monitors like the ones from Happ. Most monitors have an auto configuration button that would not sync up with the game. The picture was always to the right or left and took 10 to 15 times for the monitor to center up the screen. I would try to set it manually but the LCD controls would not let me adjust the picture over enough and some monitors just jumped around.  I believe what is happen is when I turned off the game and back on the LCD would auto center the VGA signal sent to it first from the mother board. When the Prism board took over and changed it to CGA the LCD would auto adjust again and I would be left with an out of sync or out of range display and found my self hitting the auto configuration button again and again to get a playable picture. Rick was able to program his LCD to perform flawless in all modes and didn’t have any problems when cycling the machine on and off.

Brightness issues: I like the black to be black as black can be. But others like the LCD brighter and didn’t care much about the black being a little lighter. The LCD has good range so if you like the black, Black or brighter the controls are there.

When I brought the pinball to Rick I had a hand made wood bracket with a CGA LCD that I picked up from Betson. I was having noise issues and the sync problems listed above. The wood painted black was holding the LCD in and blocking the light that was leaking through from the fluorescent light. I used wood to fill the space were the CRT was and it changed the height or distance from the LCD to playfield glass. I kinda noticed that the graphics didn’t correspond well with the action on the playfield. It could have been the spacing or the sync problems not sure. I was happy with my handy work but in retrospect it was junk compared to what is in my machine now.

Off topic:  “CGA VGA adapter” they are crap I have tried to use them on other project with poor success. I don’t want to get into any long winded debate but I was happy selling my units off on ebay for $25 to get rid of them. 


The thing I can’t show you is how great this thing looks. Colors jump out with vibrates and the game looks crisp and clear like the day I got her. For some of you who have had the chance to see it know and see the difference especially when I place it next to a CRT version.  His frame work is custom fitted. It tightly fits the LCD and acts like a picture frame masking out unviewable areas.
The use of metal to hold the LCD greatly reduced the spacing needed to mount the LCD so the distance between the LCD and playfield glass matched the old CRT so graphics seem to interact better with the playfield below.

This weekend I brought the playfield down to wood and gave her a good cleaning and replace the playfield lights with LEDs from http://www.cointaker.com  (also great people) and she looks hot.

Seeing is believing…

Troy

[Rickn]

Chad, I apologize, if I did not answer your question, I guess I missed it. As you probably know I try hard to help anywhere I can. For example your questions about the flyback.
If the question was the difference between an industrial (more specifically ours) and a retail LCD goes, here are a few:
- our LCD takes CGA/Standard and mid res signals direct, no converter (mentioned earlier)
- Support, we stock replacement boards should some time in the future your LCD does have a problem.
- Board design and components are selected for an industrial enviroment, this allows them to be used as some of our customers do in applications such as CNC machines and other process control markets. That is why the US Army had us develop a custom 26" for them.
- Many retail LCD and even our competitions do not have the ability to adjsut some of the parameters such as size and position as well as others.

Hope this helps and that it is the question you refer to, sorry I missed it. Perhaps the post by Troy above helps with the rest.