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Author Topic: Centipede Mini Restoration  (Read 19201 times)

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SirPeale

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2008, 05:20:00 pm »
I live in Southern Vermont.   There are places I can go to within 75 miles, but with gas the price it is, I can't/won't get there.  I'll just make due with what I've got.

ChadTower

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2008, 07:05:28 pm »

Hrm... try a VT classic cars forum?  I'd be shocked if there aren't a couple of guys somewhere that have setups for themselves.  Hell I might look around myself for that now that I think about it.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2008, 06:11:06 am »

Hrm... try a VT classic cars forum?  I'd be shocked if there aren't a couple of guys somewhere that have setups for themselves.  Hell I might look around myself for that now that I think about it.

I could give it a shot.  The two places I know are my cousin's garage in Springfield (Green Mtn Classics) and Hemmings Auto in Bennington.  Both places are kind of far to drive, though.  :(

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2008, 07:52:37 am »

Those are commercial setups... I'm thinking some forum guy that has a personal setup.  He gets a little cash on the side and you get a cut rate.  Maybe he ends up buying one of those games once you're done.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2008, 09:54:50 pm »
So...what kind of ROM chips does Centipede use?  I consulted the drawing set, all it lists is an Atari part number. 

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2008, 09:19:33 am »
So...what kind of ROM chips does Centipede use?  I consulted the drawing set, all it lists is an Atari part number. 

Was finally able to pull the board out to examine.  It's got 9316 ROM chips on it.  According to Mikes Arcade, they're nearly impossible to source.

Recommends replacing with 2716 instead with some minor work.

http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/spies.cgi?action=url&type=info&page=9316.txt

ChadTower

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2008, 10:11:01 am »

Hey nice site... and for once I can see it from where I'm sitting.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2008, 10:36:43 am »
And reading further into it 2716 is a direct replacement for 9316B, which is what I've got.  Good, that makes the replacement a cinch.

Now to find a really cheap place to get them.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2008, 04:25:28 pm »
And reading further into it 2716 is a direct replacement for 9316B, which is what I've got.  Good, that makes the replacement a cinch.

Now to find a really cheap place to get them.
I've seen about 5 Centipede boards now. All but one had EPROMs on them. The other one had ROMs. Don't remember what types, but I don't think the board needed any modification for either.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2008, 04:49:39 pm »
I was talking with James Sweet on RGVAC.  He said that the ROMs go bad on these very rarely.  Likely it's either a bad socket or something in the addressing line has gone bad.  I need a logic probe.  And a bit of know-how.

I wish I had a spare set of ROMs so I could rule them out.  I had to solder new legs onto one of the chips.  Coincidentally it's one of the chips that, if I'm reading correctly, is giving me an error.  I get errors 2 and 4 in self test.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2008, 06:17:57 pm »
http://www.arcadecomponents.com/memory.html

and

http://www.coinopchips.com/

usually have 2716 pulls. Mail them and ask for a price on a set, I got better prices than on the site.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2008, 10:10:37 pm »
With the ROM errors I've been getting, I wanted to 100% eliminated them as being part of the problem, especially since I've soldered more than one leg on the old ones to try and get it going.

So a buddy of mine burned four new program ROMs for me.  I'm pretty sure it's even an upgrade to the original program.  I think I was running v2 before, and now I'm running v3.

Success!  Kind of.  I'm still getting error 4, but I think it's voltage related instead of being ROM related.  If I had a coin door on there I'm pretty sure I could have played a game.  The text is a bit garbled. 

Last I checked I was only getting 13V on the 30 VDC test point.  I replaced a couple caps on the game board (with what I had around) and it didn't help.  I need to replace the rest.  But I'm out at home, and I'd prefer to replace them with axial caps instead of the radial ones.  I know it doesn't make any difference performance-wise, but I like the look better.  :P

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2008, 07:26:55 pm »
I made a replacement cardboard bezel using the old one as a pattern.  Using regular poster paper, I wasn't thrilled with the thickness, as it is about half as thick.

Since it was just sitting around I decided to pop it in the cab today to see how it would do.  It looks great, actually!  I'd thought about gluing two pieces of the paper together back to back and making a new one, but I'm happy with this for now.

I still need to cap this fully, it still comes up with graphic errors.  Need to raise the capital first, though.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2008, 08:13:00 pm »

Nice.  If you glued two together it probably would have come out with glue warping anyway. 

I know you carry leg levelers... do you have the base for them too?  My Berzerk has none at all.  When I cut the base off and replace I'm going to have to put some on to prevent the same thing from happening again.  I need some locks, too, since a lot of my games have no keys. 

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2008, 10:16:58 pm »
Isn't the base in my store?  Yes, I have them.

edit: I'll be darned.  They weren't in there.  They are now.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 10:22:33 pm by Peale »

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2008, 12:30:25 am »
FYI....I just bought a Centipede UR and so I was cruising eBay for spare parts. I noticed that there are 2 or 3 really cheap untested Centipede boards on there right now.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2008, 06:33:27 am »
FYI....I just bought a Centipede UR and so I was cruising eBay for spare parts. I noticed that there are 2 or 3 really cheap untested Centipede boards on there right now.

There always seems to be a few.  My board is 95% working right now, and I'm pretty sure the problems it's having are voltage related.  Once I work out those issues, if I'm still having problems I'll concentrate on board level stuff.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2008, 10:33:46 am »
I think the Mulitpede is responsible for a lot of Centipede boards being on offer :D


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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2008, 08:18:39 pm »
FYI....I just bought a Centipede UR and so I was cruising eBay for spare parts. I noticed that there are 2 or 3 really cheap untested Centipede boards on there right now.
Untested usually means not working. It's not worth the gamble.
NO MORE!!

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2008, 09:09:47 pm »
FYI....I just bought a Centipede UR and so I was cruising eBay for spare parts. I noticed that there are 2 or 3 really cheap untested Centipede boards on there right now.
Untested usually means not working. It's not worth the gamble.


He already has a board, I was thinking more for "parts" to fix the board he has now.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2008, 12:46:01 am »
I *think* my board is actually working, just not getting the voltages it needs to work properly.  It's reporting an error "4" which usually means (and I've confirmed it with my meter) bad voltages for that particular ROM, an EAROM.  I checked the +30V and was only getting something like +13V or something close.  Once I recap the AR2 and mainboard I think I'll be okay.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2008, 07:02:55 am »
FYI....I just bought a Centipede UR and so I was cruising eBay for spare parts. I noticed that there are 2 or 3 really cheap untested Centipede boards on there right now.
Untested usually means not working. It's not worth the gamble.

It depends. Most of the untested boards I bought worked fine.
SW (bought as a spare set for my cockpit, though it was worth the gamble at 18 !!!)
MB
DK
Asteroids

Non working, sold as untested:
DKjr. (original)


Of course it's a gamble. Guess I was lucky most of the time. On every occasion I weighed price against risk. Worked out very cost-effective.
And I can do basic repair jobs myself on the boards.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2008, 09:14:59 am »
It depends. Most of the untested boards I bought worked fine.
SW (bought as a spare set for my cockpit, though it was worth the gamble at 18 !!!)
MB
DK
Asteroids

Non working, sold as untested:
DKjr. (original)


Dude, you used up so much karma, you may want to avoid leaving the house for a few months.  In my experience untested means no chance in hell of working.  Even "tested and working" most of the time around here means "I played a game once and then turned it off before it blew again" at best. 

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2008, 10:43:33 am »
 :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

I just called my boss to explain why I won't be working/leaving the house for the next 6 weeks ;)

Maybe we are more careful or honest overhere ? ;) ;) ;)

The SW, DK, Asteroids and DKjr. all came from Belgium or Germany. The guys who sold the SW and Asteroids didn't have "equipment" (read vector monitors) around to test them. I know nothing about the e-bay seller that sold me the DK boards. Both mentioned untested, one worked right away, the other I think may be a small problem.

I've also bought two boards advertised as tested and working (DKjr. bootleg (Austria) and Popeye(Germany)) and both work fine indeed.

Only the MB came from the US. Seller told me it was pulled from a working game when it got converted (poor cab) and was stored by the operator ever since. He thought it would be working, but couldn't/didn't want to test and also sold it as untested.

Yes I've been pretty lucky :)

P.S. Funny story about the Asteroids board. I got it because I wanted to have a back-up plan in case the Meteor PCB couldn't be repaired. I brought it over when I visited Andreas (who masterfully repaired the Meteor PCB) and asked if he could test the Asteroids on his cocktail. He had a look at the board, and a second look and said: "I'm pretty sure it will work". I asked why he though so. He said "I repaired this one". He recognized some parts (like low profile x-tals) he had replaced. I did buy it from a German guy and he wondered how the PCB ended up there. This hobby is a pretty small community, especially overhere in Europe :D

O and the board indeed ran fine. I still am thinking about putting it in the Meteor cab at one point in time, so that the games are switchable. Although I didn't notice any difference at all in gameplay, it could be good for having a kit on the original Atari board...

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2008, 12:43:27 am »
I did some asking around.  Turns out the low voltage on the -30VDC is *only* for the EAROM, and it won't affect the graphics.  So I've still got a board issue.

The sprites are okay, but the text keeps getting screwed up.  I'll have to snap a picture.

And I either need to hook the coin door back up or put the machine on freeplay to see how it does.  I really want to try it out!

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2008, 01:49:53 pm »
Still having graphic issues.  The game plays fine, but text gets scrambly.

When you first power up everything looks pretty good, but gets worse the longer it's on.  Slapping the side of the cab can actually change things on screen.  That means a loose connection (cold solder joint, whatnot) but I've not been able to find one.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2008, 12:41:55 pm »
Just ordered a bunch of caps and some misc parts for the boards.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2008, 01:52:51 pm »
I went to town with it today, touched up every solder joint on the A/R II and a bunch on the main board.

Surprise!  No more graphics glitches.  I figured it had to be something like this because you could slap the side and the screen would change.  Not anymore.

New issue: the archer now moves on his own.  I remember seeing something like this on a repair log.  I'll have to dig it up.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2008, 03:12:48 pm »
Too many "electronic" problems are actually mechanic problems like these. Glad you found it.

The archer on my Centi didn't go in one certain direction IIRC. Had to replace the buffer IC that's between the IR boards and the rest of the PCB.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2008, 03:33:24 pm »
Mine goes in all directions, but tends to drift if you leave it alone.  I'm not worried about it during game play (how often do you stay in one place?) at least for the time being, but I do need a trackball rebuild kit.  It spins like crap, and the trackball is 1/4" below where it should be.  I keep pinching my fingers.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2008, 03:37:21 pm »
I just realized I appear to be having a color problem.  I brought Centipede up in Mame and things are a bit different there than on-screen.  Pictures later.

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2008, 04:36:11 pm »
Mine goes in all directions, but tends to drift if you leave it alone.  I'm not worried about it during game play (how often do you stay in one place?) at least for the time being, but I do need a trackball rebuild kit.  It spins like crap, and the trackball is 1/4" below where it should be.  I keep pinching my fingers.

I don't know if this is possible, but I wonder if the ball itself can get worn down. I replaced my centipede trackball ball with a new cue ball since it's been claimed that atari actually used cue balls, and I swear there is less of a gap between the ball and the housing. Seems more likely to me that the original ball and my new ball were manufactured with just a tiny difference in size, but it did get me wondering if the balls actually can get smaller over time from wear.
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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2008, 05:01:37 pm »
Heh...my rollers have huge wear in them.  I'm sure that's the reason.  :D

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2008, 05:43:41 pm »
Sorry, didn't mean to imply it might just be the ball. I had to install a rebuild kit too. It's just that you mentioning getting your fingers pinched reminded me of how a new ball gave me a tighter fit.
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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2008, 06:06:44 pm »
Mine goes in all directions, but tends to drift if you leave it alone.  I'm not worried about it during game play (how often do you stay in one place?)
More often than you think. This will definitely hurt game-play. I think this is a known-problem but forgot what the cause was.

Bob Roberts' rollers and bearings rock. Bob breaks-in all the bearings himself and greases them (I wonder how these things came past the customs drugs dogs  :laugh: they smell very strong). His rollers' are stainless steel, not the regular steel version that others use.


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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2008, 06:55:20 pm »
Bob Roberts' rollers and bearings rock. Bob breaks-in all the bearings himself and greases them (I wonder how these things came past the customs drugs dogs  :laugh: they smell very strong). His rollers' are stainless steel, not the regular steel version that others use.
That's good to know. My rollers (from Arcade Shop?) leave marks on the ball!

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2008, 08:14:22 pm »
I went out to the shed to take this picture.  Looks like the colors are accurate, but all washed out.  Not surprising, it hasn't been capped yet.



I was just about to pack it in when I got this screen



What the...reset the game...four beeps.  Crap!  One of the RAMs has gone.  I do have a couple replacements on some junk boards, but I want to put a socket in there.  And, of course, I *JUST* placed an order with Mouser.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 08:16:16 pm by Peale »

ChadTower

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2008, 11:28:01 am »

I hate when something pops up right after I place an order.  Happens every time, too.  That's probably why every one of my orders is $60 and involves 5 each of a bunch of things I don't need at the moment.   :banghead:

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2008, 02:50:22 pm »
I've been putting together that order over the last couple months.  Most of it's caps.

With Halloween looming on the horizon (I put games on freeplay outside on the sidewalk) I want to get a bunch going rather soon, that's why I bit the bullet. 

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Re: Centipede Mini Restoration
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2008, 03:01:00 pm »
I put games on freeplay outside on the sidewalk

That's awesome! I bet you attract some crowds! :applaud: Take some pics and post them here please.
My Collection: Mame cab, 34 dedicated cabs, pin, skeeball, coin op air hockey table, and token machine (VAPS, pics at Arcade Crusade, updated 1/30/13 with Sprint 2, Centipede, and Bubbles)

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