IPAC vs Hagstrom and Other Items

[SteveJ34]

Greetings!

Okay, been bitten by the "got to build a MAME cab" bug which begins with mapping out the parts list for both electronics and cab construction.

I'm sure this topic has been covered before but my attempts to search the archives has not produced the desired result.

I am trying to decide which keyboard encoder fits my needs. Here's the current rough for cp layout:

(2) 8-way joysticks with 6 buttons each (20 keys)
(1) 4-way joystick with 2 buttons (could duplicate to above keys)

p1,p2 (2 keys)

4 misc buttons for coin, esc, pause, etc (4 keys)

2 buttons for mouse
Happ Trackball

Total: 26 keys as trackball maps to mouse port of Hagstrom or OPTIPAC, correct?

Questions:

1. From my reading, I understand it is better to have 4 way dedicated joystick rather than using an 8 way in 4 position games. What's the vote on this?

2. Is my math correct on the number of keystrokes I will be implementing? That is, can I duplicate the strokes for 4 way to Player 1 controls since these will not be used at the same time?

3. Hagstrom vs IPAC for keyboard encoder....what's the vote on these choices?

If going with IPAC, I understand this is limited to 26 keystrokes and therefore might need to use shift function if I were to implement the extra 4 buttons for something other than ESC, Pause, etc. Correct?

I understand I would need both an IPAC and an OPTIPAC for the trackball. Correct?

If going with Hagstrom, I understand I would probably need KE-72T based on the number of keys that I need in the above layout.

What about the KE-USB36 as an alternative to the KE-72T?

Sorry for so many questions but as I'm sure many of you can understand, I'm anxious to get my parts list ironed out and place some orders in order to get the project underway.

I appreciate any and all replies, via this message board or feel free to write me direct at sjohnson@metronet.com.

Thanks.

Steve

[miked]

If you plan on playing multiple games, for example, Excitebike, Joust...  You defintly will want to have a 4 way control.  It is true what everyone says about the 8-way versus the 4-way! When using a 8 way control playing Ms. Pacman, I find that sometimes the input the encoder detects is a Diagonal. This is a drag, espically if you have a good game going and the wrong signal is sent to the encoder.

You can program multiple buttons to have the same effect. If you load Mame, simply click on  TAB key!  This will allow you to configure all the buttons, frame skip....

I went with a KE72 Encoder!  I have a simular setup to yours!  3 joysticks, Roller Ball, 6 buttons per player. Unlike the IPAC, you have 72 indivudal inputs. Witch can be set up with any keystroke on your keyboard. I would reccomend that if you go with a KE72, purchase a IOX36 Breakout Board. This will allow you to hook up the wires fairly simple. One of the many reasons I went with a ke72 encoder is that I liked the fact that you can hook up a stadard 40 pin connector. This connection not only allows you a firm fit, but you can also add a 25 pin Dsub connector. This will allow you to remove, or add another control panel. Since there is 2 36 pins inputs, you can setup all you controls to run off the first set of pins. And as for the 2 set, you can connect all of you Misc. buttons" Pause,Tab,Volume, Player 1, Continue....."

In your case, you will want to use the KE72-T. I might add that there is a difference in price. But I personally believe that the KE72 Encoder is the way to go

I haven't had a chance to work with the USB Encoder, sorry.

Hope this helps.

[LakeShark]

Answers/opinions:

1. If you're going to be playing some 4 way games, yeah, it's well worth adding a 4 way joystick.

2. 26 sounds inputs right.  Yes, the Opti-PAC provides inputs for the mouse buttons.

3. I have no experience with the KE-72, but I am a happy I-PAC owner.  I have no absolutely complaints.

One comment though -- the I-PAC provides 28 inputs, so you'll still have 2 inputs left over with the setup you outlined.

Yes, in order to use the trackball you'll also need an Opti-PAC.

-LakeShark

[aramis]

I say go w/ the IPAC. It's a great little unit, and relatively inexpensive too. You can use the default MAME key set, or program your own. (I.E., for me I wanted the shift key to be something other than P1 start.)

Wouldn't the Hagstrom unit have issues with having to create a keyboard matrix? Don't quote me on that...I thought all the Hagstroms were simple keyboard encoders that still had issues w/ matrixes/ghosting etc.

Oh, and the IPAC has 28 inputs, not 26...it has U,D,L,R, and buttons 1-8 for each player(24 inputs) + 1P start + 2P start + Coin 1 + Coin 2.

Oh, and as far as extra buttons, I would just use
(for example) shift+button1 for pause, etc..less clutter on the control panel that way. So, you can get the standard 28 inputs plus a whole extra set of "shifted" inputs if you wanted to...for example, in case you later wanted to add a "~" key, you wouldn't have to add an extra button on the panel, just reprogram the shifted function of one of your existing buttons.

Lastly, you can definitely just parallel the connections for P1 on the 8-way and the 4-way. However, if EITHER joystick is moved the input will register. What I would do is add a little hidden toggle switch somewhere that toggles the ground wire to either the 4way or the 8way. That way, both are wired to common inputs like you want, but only one jostick would be "active" at a time.

Hope that helps...

[miked]

What it really comes down to is this!  How much money do you want to spend, do you want to worry about key ghosting, or do you want an easy way to switch out control panels. One big difference between the KE72 ver. IPAC is that there is no ghosting possible. The KE72 has 72 indep. connection ver. the 28 inputs.

I hope this will assist you!

[SteveJ34]

Thanks to miked as well as the rest of you for such timely responses to my questions.

Based on other reading, I now have a better understanding of the variances between IPAC and Hagstrom.

One additional question regarding trackball and interface to Hagstrom.....

If you go with the KE72T and a trackball wire kit from Hagstrom does this translate to only needing the Happ trackball and mounting plate, ie: you do not need the interface from Happ?

That is, you are able to just wire up the trackball directly to the KE72T, correct?

Thanks.

Steve

[miked]

You are correct!  The KE72-T has a Trackball interface, along with 2/ 6 pin miniDIN connectors. It also has a RS-232 Port. If you purchase a KE72, you will need 1. 6 pin connector. This connects to your Keyboard port, thru the Encoder.


I am glad that I could assist.

[Lilwolf]

to start off with, there are NO GHOSTING on any of them (hagstrom, ipacs and MK48/64).

They are all GREAT
They are all hotswappable.
They are all configurable (MK's are the only ones in NT/XP/2000)
They are all fast
NONE of them Ghost
NONE use a matrix (all buttons are treated seperately)

IPacs, GREAT item and cheap!  If you only need 28 connetions it's prefect.  You can have 2 if you want (but can only configure one).  Also has a USB version!  VERY easy to connect to!

JPacs... what can we say.  Jamma connection for easy connections.  Video safe guards so you don't blow your arcade monitor.  Video boosting for better signal.  Ipac onboard for all controls!  If your going with an arcade monitor and have a jamma connection, you shouldn't consider anything but this!

MK64 are GREAT!  (The one I have).  Perfect for a 4player cabinet!  Cheaper then the hagstroms, they can be configured on NT (first and currently the only one).  So many buttons you don't know what to do with them.

Hagstrom are GREAT (notice I mentioned them on each).  Bunch of versions, one with trackball support.  They are expensive but for people who can afford them will not be dissappointed.

If you want a trackball, you might also consider the ipac/optipac combo.  still MUCH cheaper then the hagstroms (last I looked anyway).

[LakeShark]

<snip>

IPacs, GREAT item and cheap!  If you only need 28 connetions it's prefect.  You can have 2 if you want (but can only configure one).  Also has a USB version!  VERY easy to connect to!

<snip>

Just one small nit:
Actually, you can configure both I-PACs  (at least I know you can with my programming utility). Initially, it's necessary to program just one board so it responds as board 2.  Following that, you can program either board while they are both connected to the PC.  

--LakeShark

[Lilwolf]

Cool!   I thought that IPacs couldn't configure the second in line (of the keyboard ones... never asked about the USB version).  I had a problem with this because I constantly configure my encoder from my frontend depending on the emulator I'm running

[LakeShark]

Hmm.. yeah, I'm not entirely sure how it works with the DOS utility, but there should be a way to make one of your I-PACs respond as board 2.  I think the /P:2 option for the DOS IPACUTIL that will accomplish that.  Once that is done, the 2nd board is supposed to respond to a different programming sequence.  Then programming both boards would require running IPACUTIL twice, once normally and once with the /2 switch (I think... like I said, I don't know the DOS tool very well, but that's the sequence anyway).

-LakeShark