giving up

[Kangum]

came pretty close to starting a project. had the tools ready. bought the wood and measured it 4 times. had to cut with a jig saw because it had to many curves. came out terrible. jig saw even following a line was hard to control even going slow. i dont know maybe it was the blade i was using.

thinking of just scrapping this bartop project. its alot harder then folks here make it seem. I may clamp the sides together and belt sand the curves. see if it helps. very frustrated now. the pencil mark for my cuts came out way better then i could have hoped. i just couldnt control the saw well enough to make it happen.

aargh...

[nuka1195]

skil is a brand, if you mean a circular saw, those aren't meant for curves.

[Kangum]

fixed my post now to be more clear sorry. really annoyed and wasnt thinking

[Havok]

Clamps and sanding are your friend. Or, just buy an old arcade game and refurb that...

[nuka1195]

a good jigsaw with a good blade makes a difference. The best jigsaw i've ever used was a bosch. Even with that to get perfect edges sanding was necessary.

I would plan on sanding, if you went inside your line, can you make it a fraction smaller.

I went to the expense of buying a separate sheet of mdf, just to make a pattern for the sides.  Some use the one side as the pattern, so just keep working it until you're happy, then use it as a template for the other side.

And yes, some on here sure do make it look easy.

[RetroJames]

Clamps and sanding are your friend. Or, just buy an old arcade game and refurb that...

Yup. Clamp it and when you make your cut(s) stay 1/16 ot 1/8 away from the line. Then sand the rest. Experience and skill will dictate how close you cut to the line, but everyone sands to some degree.



Also, quitters suck so hit it with yer purse Nancy and get to cuttin' 

[Zobeid]

Here's a suggestion. . .   Make a pattern first using 1/4" plywood.  It's easy to cut with the jigsaw, and it's easy to sand.  Once you get your pattern perfected, then you can trace the outline onto your thicker wood.  Cut out the shape roughly with your jigsaw, but leave a little margin.

Then clamp your pattern to the piece once again and go around it with your router and a flush-trim bit.  It's like magic, you'll get an exact duplicate of the pattern.  And a lot of sawdust.  You can use the same pattern to make both sides of your cabinet, and they'll come out perfectly identical.

[BORIStheBLADE]

A good way for making a straight line is to make a guide out of something straight like a piece of metal or something. This way the saw that your using whether its a jig or circular saw will cut straight. Lets say that the built in bracket on yous circular saw is for example 1.5" to the side of your blade mark with a pencil 1.5" off the line you want to cut and clamp the guide on that line. With the saw following that guide it should be straight and on you mark.

[solderguy1]

I never had much luck with jigsaws in the past, but I picked up a new blade when I had to cut my curvy trackball cutout and it turned out great.  I'd say try a new blade with a practice piece of wood first, so no stress.  Have fun.

[Zobeid]

A good way for making a straight line is to make a guide out of something straight like a piece of metal or something. This way the saw that your using whether its a jig or circular saw will cut straight.

That doesn't work with all saws.  My $30 Wal-Mart jigsaw works pretty well freehand, but whenever I tried to use it with any sort of guide the blade jumped its track.  It really didn't like that for some reason.

[ark_ader]

Start small.

I love small projects.  That is the way I learn.  I create a control panel and then I added into my project.

I create a small cabinet.  I improve on it.

I love my axe.  If I have wood issues a couple of quick swings on the offending piece of wood makes the day a whole lot better.   

You want a curvy bartop?  Well practice.  Don't give up.  Using a jig takes time. 

If you rush it then you will goof it. 

TAKE YOUR TIME!!

You would do better to create a square shaped project than a fancy one.

Get back in the saddle and lets see some kind of control panel/cabinet.   

[superart]

edit

[paigeoliver]

Honestly, it is way easier to start by converting an existing cabinet than it is to scratchbuild one. Woodworking isn't the easiest skill in the world, and there is a very high chance that your conversion will come out better looking and cheaper than a scratchbuilt.

[Zobeid]

Honestly, it is way easier to start by converting an existing cabinet than it is to scratchbuild one. Woodworking isn't the easiest skill in the world, and there is a very high chance that your conversion will come out better looking and cheaper than a scratchbuilt.

um. . .

Not saying you're wrong exactly, but it's not the advice that I personally would give.  I've seen a lot of people converting old cabinets, and wondering to myself, "Wouldn't it be nearly as easy to build one from scratch?"  It's not rocket science, and they aren't exactly fine furniture.  If I could design and build one myself, starting with zero woodworking experience, then I reckon just about anybody can.

See here -->  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=78150.0

The other thing is, the original poster wrote that he was making a bartop machine.  Not a lot of conversion opportunities there, although there are some bartop kits available.

[amadama]

Here's a suggestion. . .   Make a pattern first using 1/4" plywood.  It's easy to cut with the jigsaw, and it's easy to sand.  Once you get your pattern perfected, then you can trace the outline onto your thicker wood.  Cut out the shape roughly with your jigsaw, but leave a little margin.

Then clamp your pattern to the piece once again and go around it with your router and a flush-trim bit.  It's like magic, you'll get an exact duplicate of the pattern.  And a lot of sawdust.  You can use the same pattern to make both sides of your cabinet, and they'll come out perfectly identical.

This is the exact method I used on my Pac-man from scratch machine and it works great! Don't give up, you hit a snag and that's it. You will be so happy when you finish building your cabinet. You will say "Wow, I really made this!".
Good luck!
Alex

[arzoo]

Make sure you're using the correct jigsaw blade for the material (wood) and thickness. Also, a reciprocating jigsaw will cut with less effort than a standard (up/down) jigsaw. I'll echo nuka1195 - Bosch makes a great jigsaw. But buying a new saw may be overkill - unless you're like me - I'll use any excuse to buy a new tool; hell, I bought a drill press just to drill a hole in a small aluminum rod  .

One method I've tried when cutting the sides for mame cabinets which did not work was to cut both sides at the same time (clamped together). Jigsaws tend to go out of perpendicular when going around curves and with two pieces of wood, the effect is just enhanced. It required a lot of sanding with a band sander to get both sides to match. That's another useful tool - a band sander!

Dont give up. 

[HaRuMaN]

Honestly, it is way easier to start by converting an existing cabinet than it is to scratchbuild one. Woodworking isn't the easiest skill in the world, and there is a very high chance that your conversion will come out better looking and cheaper than a scratchbuilt.

He's making a bartop.  Not a lot of bartop cabinets out there to convert.

[leapinlew]

He's making a bartop.  Not a lot of bartop cabinets out there to convert.

Actually, he's NOT making a bartop.

um. . .

Not saying you're wrong exactly, but it's not the advice that I personally would give.

Well you should. It's the right advice. 

A lot of good suggestions floating around. Many people want to build a bartop because they think the smaller scale is easier to work with. I've built bartops, conversions and full size machines. By far, conversion is the easiest method. Usually you only need to do a small amount of cutting. It's a great way to build your skill set, while producing a quality product.

He could buy a bartop kit from Mameroom, if he's sold on it being a bartop and wants to minimize the woodworking.

[Neverending Project]

Another thing to consider for the curves is picking up a Sanding Drum (example link). If you have a drill press you can install it in there and run your curves over it to smooth them out. If you don't have a drill press, you can attach it to a drill and clamp your pieces down. It will help smooth out the curves and is much easier than sanding by hand.

Don't give up! Once you figure out how to get the shape you want, the reward will be worth it.

[Jdurg]

Conversions are nice, but if you live in a part of the country where there aren't a lot of arcade distributors in the area, and very few cabinets even available, you really don't save all that much in converting one.  (since it takes a while to find a cabinet that will suit your needs, and since there's no "competition" you either have to pay the price the person is asking, or go without it).  Plus, the cost of shipping can make the conversion a financially bad idea, and even the cost of gas to drive an hour to pick up a cab is not that great of an idea.

[leapinlew]

Conversions are nice, but if you live in a part of the country where there aren't a lot of arcade distributors in the area, and very few cabinets even available, you really don't save all that much in converting one.  (since it takes a while to find a cabinet that will suit your needs, and since there's no "competition" you either have to pay the price the person is asking, or go without it).  Plus, the cost of shipping can make the conversion a financially bad idea, and even the cost of gas to drive an hour to pick up a cab is not that great of an idea.

Everything your saying is true. However, I don't think anyone has brought "price" or "savings" into the equation yet.

[lanman31337]

I bet if you live local to a member he or she wouldn't mind helping you out.  Don't give up

[Kangum]

i have changed the design and goal of the project. now its just a mini pinball player with straight clean lines.

I based the design from psychotech's project. it will be far less complicated then his and have alot less style. its just for pinball so very sleek and basic controls.

[Ginsu Victim]

I bet if you live local to a member he or she wouldn't mind helping you out.  Don't give up

Yeah, between enjoying working on these things, and being show-offs, most of us are willing to help the locals. 

[BORIStheBLADE]

A good way for making a straight line is to make a guide out of something straight like a piece of metal or something. This way the saw that your using whether its a jig or circular saw will cut straight.

That doesn't work with all saws.  My $30 Wal-Mart jigsaw works pretty well freehand, but whenever I tried to use it with any sort of guide the blade jumped its track.  It really didn't like that for some reason.

Are you talking about a guide  for the blade or a guide for the bracket around the blade?

[paigeoliver]

Guys, I wasn't giving advice from a vacuum, I have done over 30 conversions and several scratchbuilts and I do have woodworking skills (and tools).

The conversions almost always come out better looking. Even starting with a crappy cab I can usually get better results than a scratchbuilt. Yes, there are a few woodworking guru's out there that can produce factory quality cabinets in their garage, but that isn't most people. Also, realize that those amazing looking scratchbuilt cabinets you see in the project announcement threads don't always look so perfect in person (I have seen plenty of scratchbuilt cabs in person).

A lack of arcade distributors in your area is MEANINGLESS. Distributors haven't been a good source of cabinets for over a decade now (despite what the FAQ say, all of those FAQ about ops and distributors were written in the mid 90s when most ops still had warehouses full of 19" cabinets, those are mostly gone now). I have literally owned over 200 machines and not a single one came from a distributor and only ONE came from an operator (that one I purchased off the back of his truck while he was waiting in line to unload at an auction, I said, "how about I just give you the $100 that game right now" and he said sure and we moved it to my truck.

You can get a cabinet within a couple hours driving distance with a little looking, guaranteed. If you live in any actual town or city with an actual population then you won't even have to drive far at all.

[ark_ader]

Guys, I wasn't giving advice from a vacuum, I have done over 30 conversions and several scratchbuilts and I do have woodworking skills (and tools).

The conversions almost always come out better looking. Even starting with a crappy cab I can usually get better results than a scratchbuilt. Yes, there are a few woodworking guru's out there that can produce factory quality cabinets in their garage, but that isn't most people. Also, realize that those amazing looking scratchbuilt cabinets you see in the project announcement threads don't always look so perfect in person (I have seen plenty of scratchbuilt cabs in person).

A lack of arcade distributors in your area is MEANINGLESS. Distributors haven't been a good source of cabinets for over a decade now (despite what the FAQ say, all of those FAQ about ops and distributors were written in the mid 90s when most ops still had warehouses full of 19" cabinets, those are mostly gone now). I have literally owned over 200 machines and not a single one came from a distributor and only ONE came from an operator (that one I purchased off the back of his truck while he was waiting in line to unload at an auction, I said, "how about I just give you the $100 that game right now" and he said sure and we moved it to my truck.

You can get a cabinet within a couple hours driving distance with a little looking, guaranteed. If you live in any actual town or city with an actual population then you won't even have to drive far at all.

What a load of pants.

Everytime I wanted a nice cabinet for Mame I go to a distributor.  Odds are he has several in different guises that are un-sale-able like the back has been damaged or someone had a go breaking into the coinbox.

I got a cool cab with artwork and no monitor ($100 extra) for $50.  I'm sure he will have some more laying about or being ready to get the axe.  Ops get them all the time from the most wierdist places.

So sorry Paigeoliver, but that statement is just pants.   

[Havok]

I'm with Paigeoliver - he's absolutely right. Anyone that is in a city with a decent population can find cabinets for good prices if they're not too picky and are patient. I got a pristine Pole Position upright for free, just because the board stopped working. (imagine that, huh?) I also got my first cockpit, Space Tactics for free, someone I know here on the boards hooked me up with a Turbo cockpit for $50, complete - just needed some cosmetic work and a little solder work on the steering encoder - $50 and about an hour of diagnostics got me a 100% working cabinet. I then proceeded to locate someone local who had two Hard Drivin cockpits - I worked out a trade for the PP and Turbo, and the guy delivered one to my house!

There are deals, you just have to work a little, wait, and find them. Make friends, develop contacts, watch CraigsList and Ebay. CL is a crapshoot, but every once in a while it pans out; that's how I got the PP, which was 15 minutes away from my work. I picked it up on my lunch break!

 

[paigeoliver]

The fact that one CAN get machines from operators and distributors does not mean that it is the best place, nor that a lack of them somehow keeps one from getting machines. The situation you describe doesn't exist everywhere and will continue to become more and more uncommon as time goes on. However there are machines in basements and garages in every part of the country.

Although I am not exactly sure why a broken back door or a busted in coin box makes a game unsaleable, both are cheap fixes and both are really only relevant when operating a machine, and good luck purchasing ANY machine and operating it for an actual profit these days.

Guys, I wasn't giving advice from a vacuum, I have done over 30 conversions and several scratchbuilts and I do have woodworking skills (and tools).

The conversions almost always come out better looking. Even starting with a crappy cab I can usually get better results than a scratchbuilt. Yes, there are a few woodworking guru's out there that can produce factory quality cabinets in their garage, but that isn't most people. Also, realize that those amazing looking scratchbuilt cabinets you see in the project announcement threads don't always look so perfect in person (I have seen plenty of scratchbuilt cabs in person).

A lack of arcade distributors in your area is MEANINGLESS. Distributors haven't been a good source of cabinets for over a decade now (despite what the FAQ say, all of those FAQ about ops and distributors were written in the mid 90s when most ops still had warehouses full of 19" cabinets, those are mostly gone now). I have literally owned over 200 machines and not a single one came from a distributor and only ONE came from an operator (that one I purchased off the back of his truck while he was waiting in line to unload at an auction, I said, "how about I just give you the $100 that game right now" and he said sure and we moved it to my truck.

You can get a cabinet within a couple hours driving distance with a little looking, guaranteed. If you live in any actual town or city with an actual population then you won't even have to drive far at all.

What a load of pants.

Everytime I wanted a nice cabinet for Mame I go to a distributor.  Odds are he has several in different guises that are un-sale-able like the back has been damaged or someone had a go breaking into the coinbox.

I got a cool cab with artwork and no monitor ($100 extra) for $50.  I'm sure he will have some more laying about or being ready to get the axe.  Ops get them all the time from the most wierdist places.

So sorry Paigeoliver, but that statement is just pants.   

[Zobeid]

The conversions almost always come out better looking. Even starting with a crappy cab I can usually get better results than a scratchbuilt. Yes, there are a few woodworking guru's out there that can produce factory quality cabinets in their garage, but that isn't most people. Also, realize that those amazing looking scratchbuilt cabinets you see in the project announcement threads don't always look so perfect in person (I have seen plenty of scratchbuilt cabs in person).

Even though I'm sure it's all true, I find this paragraph bothersome for a couple of reasons.

For one thing, the original poster was wanting to make a bartop machine, and later changed his plans to a video pinball machine.  In neither instance is it helpful to suggest conversion.

But more to the point. . .

Scratch-building cabinets is one of the major activities here on BYOAC, and it sounds like you are dumping on it and the people who do it.  It almost sounds like we're all a bunch of dummies who built our own cabinets because we didn't know any better.

My cabinet is my first woodworking project ever.  And no, it's not perfect.  It has a few minor gaps, and a few bits that should be perfectly parallel and are not.  Most of this I think I can conceal.  So. . .  How perfect does it need to be?  I never set out to create a paragon example of fine furniture.

I live in a small town (about 2700 ppl) in a rural area.  Even here I think I could have gotten my hands on an old Klax machine for cheap.  I looked at it. . . but you know, that wasn't what I wanted.  I am building what I wanted.  And it has been fun, it's been tremendously satisfying.

[Jdurg]

Yeah, I live in a part of the country where it's a good 2.5 to 3 hour drive to an actual "major" city.  (NYC or Boston).  In my area, nobody has arcade cabs that they are willing to part with.  What many people here have said they've gotten for $100, people around here are looking for $800 or $1000 for it.  I'm just not paying that amount of money.  In addition, I needed to learn how to do some woodworking so I started out small by building my CP.  The measurements and design of my CP mean that I can not just plop it onto an already built cab and have it look good. 

If you start with the cab, then make the CP the conversion is a good way to go.  If, like me, you do the opposite then you almost have to scratch build. 

Even though I'm building my MAME cab, I definitely want to find an original MK cab or a SF2 cab that I could spend some time restoring to brand new condition.  Craigslist has come up empty, and any purchase outside of a driving distance will have shipping costs nearly 8 times higher than the price of the cab.

[CheffoJeffo]

But more to the point. . .

Scratch-building cabinets is one of the major activities here on BYOAC, and it sounds like you are dumping on it and the people who do it.  It almost sounds like we're all a bunch of dummies who built our own cabinets because we didn't know any better.

I'll tell you what ... when you've been here as long (or built as many cabs) as Paige ... THEN you can get all bent-out-of-shape with some degree of credibility.

I happen to agree with Paige -- it is WAY easier to convert an existing cab for use with MAME than to build one from scratch. Doesn't make it the best choice for everybody, but it IS easier. And, the results can be better than those achieved by people who build their own. Paige suggested an alternative, easier, route, then people chime in and say "but the OP is building a bartop" (even though the OP has expressed frustration and even a desire for an alternative). I see bartops at auction all the time ... one of them is currently running Rygar in my basement.

People say how there are no cabs available and then slam the folks who say that there are more cabs out there than you think. I can remember when certain people on this board would say "there aren't any affordable cabs where I am" (say, in ButtFart, ID) and are now flush and turning cabs down for lack of space. Hell, I used to say the same thing and have to turn away available cabs almost weekly. The catch is that there isn't a "Cabinet Depot" down by the WalMart and you have to do some work (other than browsing ePay and CL) in order to tap in.

 

[Jdurg]

Heh.  Believe me, I'm hoping to have that happen to me.  Where I am situated, however, the populace isn't really of the age that would have arcade games in their own homes.  Hell, growing up we had but one or two arcades within driving distance, and this was during the heyday of arcades.  The sad thing is that the people around here are not willing to part with their cabinets, or any technology that they bought, unless they get at least 75% return on their investment.  So if they paid $1500 for their cab when it was new, they expect to get at least $1000 for it.  I've actually talked with a few people who had for sale ads in local newspapers and offered them $200 for a cab that was somewhat beatup but was working.  They just looked stunned when I made the offer and when I said "hey, you're cab is 15 years old.  You're not going to get what you're asking for it.  So take it or leave it."

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm not saying that it will be true everywhere, but it is true more often than people realize and requires patience, time and effort.

I've been enjoying Life After Death III - Warehouse Raid and appreciate the importance of time, patience and effort more than ever before.

EDIT: I see that jdurg is in Uncasville -- I see cabs coming up in Norwalk, Bridgeport and New Haven fairly regularly ... often enough that I have asked my parents (who live in Stamford) about possibly picking some up for me.

[Jdurg]

EDIT: I see that jdurg is in Uncasville -- I see cabs coming up in Norwalk, Bridgeport and New Haven fairly regularly ... often enough that I have asked my parents (who live in Stamford) about possibly picking some up for me.

Yup, that's me.    I don't own a truck/van, however, so I would either have to rent one or borrow my father's and he probably wouldn't be willing to drive much further than New Haven, so it limits me to the eastern half of the state.  The only thing I can hope for is that Foxwoods decides to ditch their 'arcade' and dumps the cabs off for almost nothing.

[CheffoJeffo]

Nothing wrong with that and is a perfect reason to BYOCab, but is a far cry from "there are no affordable cabs near me".

[SirPeale]

...someone I know here on the boards hooked me up with a Turbo cockpit for $50, complete - just needed some cosmetic work and a little solder work on the steering encoder - $50 and about an hour of diagnostics got me a 100% working cabinet.

Wow, that's all it was?  Sweet!

[Zobeid]

I'll tell you what ... when you've been here as long (or built as many cabs) as Paige ... THEN you can get all bent-out-of-shape with some degree of credibility.

The fact that I've only built one cabinet (and am still not finished with it) is exactly what qualifies me to say it's not that hard, just about anybody can do this.  I started with no tools and no woodworking experience and put together something I think is decent.

[psychotech]

 

---------

Kangum, that looks great

Add just two buttons on the CP and you have enough to control a jukebox quite nicely...

More importantly, as you're building a pinball, do not forget the left/right/front nudge buttons!

Where are you going to put the speakers, sides? ..and what size LCD are you going to use?

Have fun! Good luck with the project 

psychotech

[CheffoJeffo]

I'll tell you what ... when you've been here as long (or built as many cabs) as Paige ... THEN you can get all bent-out-of-shape with some degree of credibility.

The fact that I've only built one cabinet (and am still not finished with it) is exactly what qualifies me to say it's not that hard, just about anybody can do this.  I started with no tools and no woodworking experience and put together something I think is decent.

And that's Great (with a sincere capital G) ... but it doesn't make Paige wrong or indicate that he was calling people idiots for building their own cabs, which means that you had no reason to get bent out of shape at what he said (which is what I was talking about).

 

[phishpac]

If it's any consolation, my new cabinet is totally finished except the cpo artwork hasn't been applied.  I did the control panel wiring tonight and when it was time to put the ipac into my computer, I realized I had no ps2 > usb adapter.  By the time I realized that, it was already past 9 and everything was closed!!!  No gaming for me tonight =[

[paigeoliver]

Heck, no, I wasn't calling anyone an idiot for building their own, I have done it several times. But it is a totally different level of project than a conversion and MUCH more difficult and much more time consuming, and the original poster was stressing out about woodworking, which is a totally optional part of the hobby.

I have a scratchbuilt cabinet in my living room right now, however I didn't actually build that one myself. It is a good lucking deluxe size 27" woodgrain cabinet. It is put together nicely too, one of the better ones I have seen, and certainly better than the ones I have done myself), and it still isn't up to par with what I could do with a factory cabinet.

My main point here is that is the woodworking part scares you or is problematic then don't do it. Lack of truck doesn't even matter here, it costs so much more to scratchbuild that you can rent a truck with the difference, and A LOT of people who own games have trucks and most will deliver for $$.

I'll tell you what ... when you've been here as long (or built as many cabs) as Paige ... THEN you can get all bent-out-of-shape with some degree of credibility.

The fact that I've only built one cabinet (and am still not finished with it) is exactly what qualifies me to say it's not that hard, just about anybody can do this.  I started with no tools and no woodworking experience and put together something I think is decent.

And that's Great (with a sincere capital G) ... but it doesn't make Paige wrong or indicate that he was calling people idiots for building their own cabs, which means that you had no reason to get bent out of shape at what he said (which is what I was talking about).

 

[danny_galaga]

well kangum, looks like some good has come from your initial failure- that new design is great! i think some people ahve mentioned it here, clamp some straight edges down for straight lines if using a jigsaw. this is what i did for my cab (used aluminium angle), as i was too tight to spring for a circular saw AND a jigsaw   
for the number of cuts on a single cab, its not too tedious...

[DrewKaree]

No, everybody is wrong.  You SHOULD give up.

Things that are worthwhile in the end are oftentimes difficult to do at first, and only the severely twisted subject themselves to such punishment.

Better to give up and assume brazillions who've gone before you are simply twisted, demented folks without lives.  Life is much safer that way.