New Frontend (Coming Soon)

[protokatie]

So I think people need to ask themselves what makes a FE, the skin or the engine and back end?

As a newb, I think it is the editor. The MALA editor (for instance) doesnt seem to like VISTA, and wont save certain aspects of the skins I make (even tho the preview seems to show it just fine). This is why I switched to atomicFE, as it worked with Vista perfectly, and the layout editor was rather (but not very) intuitive.
So I say to this new "intruder" with the really cool looking FE project, "Dont forget about making the skin editor very easy to use, and as quirk free as possible".

(Yes, I do realise that the editor is only a minor aspect of an FE, esp since many FEs can read other FEs skins, but it is a really nice thing to have and can make someone stick to a particular FE if its layout editor is decent)

[paulstevens]

I'd rather it go to good use than be used to promote other frontends.

That remark leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Why?

[Havok]

I'd rather it go to good use than be used to promote other frontends.

That remark leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Makes perfect sense to me - that's his baby, and you're looking to rip apart the stuff you want and put it into something else. There's a lot of hard work he's doing, and I can see where he's coming from...

[Yarb]

This front end looks like what I have been looking for for years. The only thing I see missing is the ability to use all those RGB LEDs I wired into my CP (Shudders at the memory). I have always felt that the finishing touches are what make a great cab (Mine is painted with Midnight Metallic Blue 1960's Mustang car paint and clear coated). I have sought a front end that allows for an arcade feel without a windows look (Read no freaking text lists). Ultrasytle is the closest to what I want but it has some severe handicaps. I cannot contribute code assistance but if you need testers I would be glad to help and I will be putting it to use as soon as it is released.

    

Mike B

[Ginsu Victim]

^We'll all be testers soon enough. Just give it time (though in the process of waiting I've discovered the goodness of MameWAH, so I may not switch)

[massive88]

^We'll all be testers soon enough. Just give it time (though in the process of waiting I've discovered the goodness of MameWAH, so I may not switch)

The biggest problem with Mamewah is its learning curve I think.  But since getting the program down fairly well, it seems like every time I come across a "man I wish I could do this with my frontend" theres a way to do it.

Im speaking mainly of execution and organization of lists, but still, hell of a frontend.

Ill keep trying the new ones, but now that Im familiar with Mamewah, it will really have to have a solid setup and customization options for me to switch now.

[Ummon]

The biggest problem with Mamewah is its learning curve I think.  But since getting the program down fairly well, it seems like every time I come across a "man I wish I could do this with my frontend" theres a way to do it.

One could probably say the same about DOS, for approximately the same reasons.

[Dazz]

^We'll all be testers soon enough. Just give it time (though in the process of waiting I've discovered the goodness of MameWAH, so I may not switch)

The biggest problem with Mamewah is its learning curve I think.  But since getting the program down fairly well, it seems like every time I come across a "man I wish I could do this with my frontend" theres a way to do it.

Im speaking mainly of execution and organization of lists, but still, hell of a frontend.

Ill keep trying the new ones, but now that Im familiar with Mamewah, it will really have to have a solid setup and customization options for me to switch now.

Personally I liked MameWAH a lot, but I found myself screwing with the configs more then playing games.  Once I, thought, I had it all setup and let people play on the cabinet for some reason the configs were always screwed up after.  Not sure if button inputs were causing it, but I found myself doing more configs then playing.  I switched to Maximus Arcade and have never had any issues with configs ever again.  So freaking easy my 5 year old son can use it and I don't have to worry about anything getting screwed up.

Really looking forward to this Front End though...

[loadman]

As a newb, I think it is the editor. The MALA editor (for instance) doesn't seem to like VISTA, and wont save certain aspects of the skins I make (even tho the preview seems to show it just fine).

Hi, sorry to hijack this thread

Why do think Vista has anything to do with it? I have not heard of any MaLa vista problems before. If there are issues I would love to know about it.

Did you try it on any other OS or just assume MaLa had a problem with Vista? I know you said 'doesn't seem' but I want to nail this down please 

It sounds more likely you had the layout directory options set out incorrectly

Check the wiki section here:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Mala_Layout#F.A.Q.

If you have any comments about MaLa and Vista probably best to start a new thread

[headkaze]

Jeez guys comon this has nothing to do with MaLa. If you have a problem with another FE then make a new post. Sheesh. Why annoy this guy with totally unrelated stuff.

[SGT]

Actually we need a Pebkac forum for such things.   Now.... back to the New Frontend......

[Neilyboy]

watched the quick vid.. gets my approval!! very nice work man! I cannot wait to see how this comes out.
Neil

[arzoo]

bent98 - LED Blinky support might be later on, I'm not really familiar with it yet.  Release will be soon hopefully,

BBB - If your FE can launch an external app before starting a game, and pass the rom name, then it can use LEDBlinky.

[Goshen]

This looks fantastic! I mean...really really fantastic!  I love how visual it is my kids are going to love it! 

To go along with what the others have said about ease of use...

One thing I love about GameEx is that somehow it knows which version of the game is best and uses that on the list, I also love that when you install it is comes with all of the game lists, 4 players, multiplayers, trackball, light gun, classics, ect...  Thats one thing I hate about Mala is that it doesn't come with any game lists, and I don't want to make one, and haven't found one to download.(I am sure someone will point out the error of my ways).  But the point is, having something that you install, point it at the roms and it just works...thats golden.  Then you can customize it from there.

[BadBoyBill]

Hey everyone, sorry for no updates for those that are interested, I've been very busy on the FE, and been making lots of improvements.  I had to rewerite the wheel  to make it more effiecient, I think its running really great now. 

I'ts goint to be slightly different from the video(better), if you notice when going from game to game the background simply fades out and a new background for the next game fades in.  I added about 20 and soon more random transitions to the background.  There will be no black screen between backgrounds, one will transition to the next with nice effects, like elevator doors closing in, sliding in backgrounds, blinds, and things like that.  With more advanced effects later.  I also added swf background support and have already created some nice moving backgrounds. 

My MAME coverter is just about finished for the backend, with just a few clicks youre able to make lots of lists easily, remove clones and non working games and create lists with catver.ini.  You will be able to name your genres, since catver.ini has some funky names and lots of weird categories.  Pick some catver categories, give it a name and your good.

As for the comment about running an external app prior to the game, this isnt incorporated but I'll add it in for those who need it.

Also as for the custom premade lists, Im sure I can post those in my forum but it will be very easy to make your own lists with what I'm writing now,  just follow the instructions and you'll be fine. 

Thanks

[MiKman]

Just a quick question, is there anyway you could write into it to load/unload the ultrastik 360 game configuation files similiar to the way some of the other front ends handle it?

like implement some sort of pre/post emulator commandlines that can run before mame is run and after it exits...

If you already have this implemented I apologize for not reading the thread entirely.  If not and you have any questions about this, let me know I'll try and help anyway I can...

PS love the front end :-) 

[fatfingers]

I would be willing to supply some code I wrote for the U360 plugin for MaLa if you're interested.

Let me know.

Joel

[BadBoyBill]

I personally don't own a ultrastik so I wouldnt be able to test this, but, after reading the ultrastik page I know I can add this in, maybe I'll buy one in the future, since it would be nice to have one on hand for testing.  So for now it woul'dnt have this functionality yet, but thanks for bringing this up.

[Ummon]

But the point is, having something that you install, point it at the roms and it just works...thats golden.  Then you can customize it from there.

All of them have their quirks and failings here.

[BadBoyBill]

Well I dont want to assume which rom sets naming people are using nor what roms they actually own.  But are you guys saying you want premade lists ready to go and just dump your roms and emulators in for it to be a good frontend.

The only way I think that this would be, is:
1. To have ready to go emulator folders come with the install that you would install the emulator into, which I can do.
2. Have premade lists (good naming or no intro) ready to go in the database directory.
3. Each wheel genre needs its own XML file. So premake genre lists for MAME.
4. Have the backend support the making of any other lists you need.

I can do these things I guess, but the tools and documentation will be there to do these things yourself.  I think it will be very important to have easy to read step by step documentation to get you going, which I am working on. 

On a side note:  I just moved in my new arcade machine in today, so I just gotta put a computer together so Im super motivated to get all this off the ground as soon as possible, seems like every time I turn around I find more fixes I need to do and additions I need to make. 

[arzoo]

Just a quick question, is there anyway you could write into it to load/unload the ultrastik 360 game configuation files similiar to the way some of the other front ends handle it?

MiKman,
This is a bit of a long shot, but LEDBlinky does have a feature to control the 360 based on the game config. But this is still dependent on BBB adding the ability to launch an external app prior to launching the game (which he has said he will do), and that you will be lighting your cp with an LEDWiz or PacDrive.

[screaming]

Wow, very impressive!  I can't say that enough... It's nice to see someone take FEs seriously for a change.

I second the notion that making the backend is harder and more tedious (partly because it's boring as hell) than the front end part. I spent untold hours on MAMEWAH Config (incidentally, people were all kinds of p'ed off because it was done in .NET 1.1. It's funny to come back after a couple years and see the shift of opinion ).

Any plans on getting the backend lists in a database using, say, the free sqlite?  It saves a ton of burden down the road, especially if you do it now while you're just ramping up. Also, it gives you a unified interface to pull all your game info from and you can sort it and parse it every-which-way but Sunday.

  Not to mention saving users (like me) from writing simple apps to sort favorites lists in AtomicFE.

Lastly (sorry), did I miss the demo video of you launching a game list and a game?  I'm interested in checking that out.

[joebells]

would that require us to install sqlite on our systems like mymovies does of my sql or some sql program I hate that and don't run it because of that.

[btoddkelley]

One feature that I really like in Mamewah is the ability to control the system volume from the frontend. One button increases volume, one decreases it. Not trying to bug you for features, just thinking you might find this handy in your cab as well. With volume control the user does not need to open the cab to lower the volume when the neighbors complain! Absolutely great looking frontend BTW!

Todd

[screaming]

would that require us to install sqlite on our systems like mymovies does of my sql or some sql program I hate that and don't run it because of that.

Nah, BadBoyBill would include a small .dll file with his front end and you're good to go.  None of that MS SQL Server crap...

[BadBoyBill]

Wow, very impressive!  I can't say that enough... It's nice to see someone take FEs seriously for a change.

I second the notion that making the backend is harder and more tedious (partly because it's boring as hell) than the front end part. I spent untold hours on MAMEWAH Config (incidentally, people were all kinds of p'ed off because it was done in .NET 1.1. It's funny to come back after a couple years and see the shift of opinion ).

Any plans on getting the backend lists in a database using, say, the free sqlite?  It saves a ton of burden down the road, especially if you do it now while you're just ramping up. Also, it gives you a unified interface to pull all your game info from and you can sort it and parse it every-which-way but Sunday.

  Not to mention saving users (like me) from writing simple apps to sort favorites lists in AtomicFE.

Lastly (sorry), did I miss the demo video of you launching a game list and a game?  I'm interested in checking that out.

There are not plans crrently for building databases using free sqlite.  Though its possible, Im just trying to get alot of the basic stuff out of the way right now first, and kinda just see how people like the list generating features I inlcude, and if there arises needs for more advanced listing features then I can impliment that stuff later.

One feature that I really like in Mamewah is the ability to control the system volume from the frontend. One button increases volume, one decreases it. Not trying to bug you for features, just thinking you might find this handy in your cab as well. With volume control the user does not need to open the cab to lower the volume when the neighbors complain! Absolutely great looking frontend BTW!

Todd

Ok I can add this feature, actually I kinda already added something already, but it isnt routed to buttons, I'll add it in.

[screaming]

doesn't seem "advanced" to me, it seems like quality programming form.

The gui looks great though and the fact that it's all customizable is incredible!  Great job.. I'm excited to see this FE come out for real.

[BadBoyBill]

doesn't seem "advanced" to me, it seems like quality programming form.

The gui looks great though and the fact that it's all customizable is incredible!  Great job.. I'm excited to see this FE come out for real.

Well what I mean by advanced is that I dont think that most people need to make lists like (all games made by midway, only 4 way, of the fighting genre, working, favorited and is not mature), catch my drift, I want to keep it simple, cuz thats what this fe is gonna be, just some genre lists, favorites, and maybe a few other common filters, it might not be advanced to you or me, but I dont want to confuse a typical user either, and if not having tons of listing possibilities is poor programming form then i guess I'm barking up the wrong tree. But thanks for the input, i personnaly
will probably have some nice and simple genre lists like ultracade does, and keep it at that for personnal machine, which is the primary reason im writing this. If you ever get a chance to see one you will immediately appreciate the simplicity and fun it is.

[Neilyboy]

Very awesome badboybill. glad to see you have not lost interest in this project. you have a really great thing going man with lots of potential! Keep up the good work man

Neil

[mybrainhurtz]

I have been following this thread since it started, and I just wanted to say that I think things are looking great BBB! Having an interface that has flash-based transitions brings some freshness into the rather plain world of frontends... I am currently building my first mame cab and have already decided that your FE will be the one that I run on it. Keep up the good work!

-Chad

[ErikRuud]

doesn't seem "advanced" to me, it seems like quality programming form.

The gui looks great though and the fact that it's all customizable is incredible!  Great job.. I'm excited to see this FE come out for real.

Well what I mean by advanced is that I dont think that most people need to make lists like (all games made by midway, only 4 way, of the fighting genre, working, favorited and is not mature), catch my drift, I want to keep it simple, cuz thats what this fe is gonna be, just some genre lists, favorites, and maybe a few other common filters, it might not be advanced to you or me, but I dont want to confuse a typical user either, and if not having tons of listing possibilities is poor programming form then i guess I'm barking up the wrong tree. But thanks for the input, i personnaly
will probably have some nice and simple genre lists like ultracade does, and keep it at that for personnal machine, which is the primary reason im writing this. If you ever get a chance to see one you will immediately appreciate the simplicity and fun it is.

On the other hand I have never used the default lists for any FE that I have tried.  Even way back when I was using GameLauncher I had my own category lists.  It did mean that I had to do a lot of ini editing because GL did not really support categories.

One of my favorite features in Khameleon is the ability to use SQL statements to build my game lists.  I should add this disclaimer: I am a programmer and I write SQL on a daily basis.

[btoddkelley]

[/quote]

Well what I mean by advanced is that I dont think that most people need to make lists like (all games made by midway, only 4 way, of the fighting genre, working, favorited and is not mature), catch my drift, I want to keep it simple, cuz thats what this fe is gonna be, just some genre lists, favorites, and maybe a few other common filters, it might not be advanced to you or me, but I dont want to confuse a typical user either, and if not having tons of listing possibilities is poor programming form then i guess I'm barking up the wrong tree. But thanks for the input, i personnaly
will probably have some nice and simple genre lists like ultracade does, and keep it at that for personnal machine, which is the primary reason im writing this. If you ever get a chance to see one you will immediately appreciate the simplicity and fun it is.
[/quote]

Once again I am not trying to encourage you to add features, just wanting to offer another prospective. One of the things I have done in my cab (in which i use Mamewah) Is to create custom lists for the console emulators that allow the user to view games that are released by region. Almost all systems have the following lists:

Lists 1,  which is titled "Labeled List" Is the complete lists of all games available for the emulator with the no intro codes visible.
List 2, which is titled "United States"  Is a list of all US released games
List 3, which is titled "Japan"  Is a list of all Japan released games
List 4 which is titled "Europe" is a list of all European releases

The final list 4 which is titled "Main List". This is the lists that is used most often and is viewed by default.
List 4 is a prioritized list that is put together as follows:
 All US games,
 Any game that is not in the US set but is in the Europe set,
 any game that is not in the US or Europe set but is in the Japan set,
finally, any games that are from other regions but are not in the US, Europeor Japanease sets.

This list shows only ONE version of each game, with US games having priority, then European game, the japanease games and then anything left over from other regions.

You can see why this is the main list, the user can view a complete set of all games released for the platform prioritized by region.

The reason for the other country specific lists is that I view my arcade cab as an "encyclopedia of video game history". The lists by country allow the user to see what games were released and where. I know that anyone looking at the labeled list could do the same thing, but this creates a nice clean way of doing "game research"!

Some of you are probably wondering how I managed to sort all of the lists by hand. I DIDN'T. John Crouse (CPV2 author) wrote an app that that scans the ROM folder, displays the codes and the allow you to select what is you want the list to contain, and then creates a Mamewah list.
Whether you use any of my ideas or not, I think your FE is going to be great!

Todd

[BadBoyBill]

Some of you are probably wondering how I managed to sort all of the lists by hand. I DIDN'T. John Crouse (CPV2 author) wrote an app that that scans the ROM folder, displays the codes and the allow you to select what is you want the list to contain, and then creates a Mamewah list.
Whether you use any of my ideas or not, I think your FE is going to be great!

Todd

Well I could include this kind of funtionality for sure, I definitely mainly keep my lists US, and obviously some games are US and EU, which Id like to seperate EU games not made in the US and have those greate EU games to.  And also give others options for JP games.  I think I've decided to stick with the No-Intro naming for my theme files for a couple reasons, primarily so I dont have to rename emu movies also.  But as far as trying to use this FE as your game encyclopedia and all that, I'm sure it might not be the right choice for you primarily because I dont use text lists which is not standard for and FE. The text lists give you a better visual of what region your games are and all that espcecially if you keep the names in your text lists with the region in the name.  This FE's lists are all going to be done with artwork in the wheel.  The artwork doesnt usually change from a EU game to US game and I'm not going to provide JP artwork titles unless all other US stuff is done first.  I've had a few offers already to begin artwork for wheel images so I think we will have a strong graphic community to provide this stuff over time.  Its quite a challenge to provide an FE that is both visually entertaining and strong in providing all those features that dedicated enthusiasts and collectors need to. But I'll do my best.

[btoddkelley]

Well I could include this kind of funtionality for sure, I definitely mainly keep my lists US, and obviously some games are US and EU, which Id like to seperate EU games not made in the US and have those greate EU games to.  And also give others options for JP games.  I think I've decided to stick with the No-Intro naming for my theme files for a couple reasons, primarily so I dont have to rename emu movies also.  But as far as trying to use this FE as your game encyclopedia and all that, I'm sure it might not be the right choice for you primarily because I dont use text lists which is not standard for and FE. The text lists give you a better visual of what region your games are and all that espcecially if you keep the names in your text lists with the region in the name.  This FE's lists are all going to be done with artwork in the wheel.  The artwork doesnt usually change from a EU game to US game and I'm not going to provide JP artwork titles unless all other US stuff is done first.  I've had a few offers already to begin artwork for wheel images so I think we will have a strong graphic community to provide this stuff over time.  Its quite a challenge to provide an FE that is both visually entertaining and strong in providing all those features that dedicated enthusiasts and collectors need to. But I'll do my best.
[/quote]

If you add this funtionality I don't believe you would need a different artwork for different lists. (or different wheels in this case) Just something that tells you what "wheel" you are on. Japan,  Europe US, or the main list. (The name "Main List" sucks BTW, I just havent came up with anything better!)
     I don't think a list is needed that shows the no-intro codes, I leave it because it is the first list Mamewah generates and if roms are updated its a starting point. Ideally, having lists by regeon negates the need for displaying the codes.
     Good call on going with the No-intro lists, since I switched I have never looked back. Who really needs the hacks and bad dumps that are in goodsets???

Todd

[BadBoyBill]

If you add this funtionality I don't believe you would need a different artwork for different lists. (or different wheels in this case) Just something that tells you what "wheel" you are on. Japan,  Europe US, or the main list. (The name "Main List" sucks BTW, I just havent came up with anything better!)
     I don't think a list is needed that shows the no-intro codes, I leave it because it is the first list Mamewah generates and if roms are updated its a starting point. Ideally, having lists by regeon negates the need for displaying the codes.
     Good call on going with the No-intro lists, since I switched I have never looked back. Who really needs the hacks and bad dumps that are in goodsets???

Todd

Ok i see what your saying, and actually that goes along perfectly with how I plan on handling genres anyways.  When you hit the genre button, it brings up a cool looking scrollable list of say fighting games, paddle, or whatever.  But it doesnt have to be a genre selector per say, just an overall list selector you have for that system, this is where you can choose, Fighting, Japan, US, All Games, etc....   Im going to get on writing this over the weekend.  Each item on the genre selector is its own XML file.  These XML's will be very easy to make with the tools I'll provide. My MAME one is working great so far.  After selecting the genre the list will flip out and back in with the whole new wheel of games.  This is great, and I cant wait to make it!  Shouldnt take to long.

And as far as Good Sets, I wonder what percent of people use those vs. no intro.  Just to save me time for now I'll only make a no-intro to hyperspin xml converter for the backend. 

[btoddkelley]

I glad you think the idea can work. One more thing I forgot to mention, Of all the funtionality in list creation, The absolute most important for console use, (IMHO) is the ability to create the prioritized list. I dont know how far along you are in your cab build, but popoular consoles will always have multiple region releases of good games. A common question from users is "Which version of XXXXX do I select?". Once the no-intro codes are stripped off the ends of the roms, even the expert user has a hard time knowing which release is a US release. (Or a Japanease release for user on the otherside of the world!)
     Once a prioritized list is created, all unique game titles are displayed AND the most relevant version for the user is the one diplayed. You may have already figured this out and if you have, sorry to waste your time, but this was something that made console use frustrating for (non cab building) users until John created a way to prioritize a list in Mamewah.
     I used to manually sort roms by region in windows explorer, generate a list and then copy all the roms back to a single rom folder. AHHH the good old days! Almost as much fun as DLing roms from Mamedk ONE AT A TIME.  Thank the Lord for torrents!

Todd

[youki]

Its quite a challenge to provide an FE that is both visually entertaining and strong in providing all those features that dedicated enthusiasts and collectors need to. But I'll do my best.

It's summarize very well the situation. 

[btoddkelley]

Its quite a challenge to provide an FE that is both visually entertaining and strong in providing all those features that dedicated enthusiasts and collectors need to. But I'll do my best.

It's summarize very well the situation. 

I'm with you Youki! I dont want BBB to think I am pushing for anything, only pointing out challenges that I have faced in the past when trying to make a cab friendly for non arcade fanatics!
I have been meaning to try your FE BTW.

Todd                   

[BadBoyBill]

I glad you think the idea can work. One more thing I forgot to mention, Of all the funtionality in list creation, The absolute most important for console use, (IMHO) is the ability to create the prioritized list. I dont know how far along you are in your cab build, but popoular consoles will always have multiple region releases of good games. A common question from users is "Which version of XXXXX do I select?". Once the no-intro codes are stripped off the ends of the roms, even the expert user has a hard time knowing which release is a US release. (Or a Japanease release for user on the otherside of the world!)
     Once a prioritized list is created, all unique game titles are displayed AND the most relevant version for the user is the one diplayed. You may have already figured this out and if you have, sorry to waste your time, but this was something that made console use frustrating for (non cab building) users until John created a way to prioritize a list in Mamewah.
     I used to manually sort roms by region in windows explorer, generate a list and then copy all the roms back to a single rom folder. AHHH the good old days! Almost as much fun as DLing roms from Mamedk ONE AT A TIME.  Thank the Lord for torrents!

Todd

I dont think your pushing, I know this is a legitimate want for alot of users including myself.  Alot of great games only came out in Europe only or both here in the US.  The way it will work with my FE is that the lists will be premade, by me or you for instance and not sorted on the fly in the FE.  So youll have an XML for "All Games", an XML for "US Games" and an "XML" for EU Games" , or US/EU Combo set with only unique titles.  etc.. etc..., The great thing about those lists is that they only need to be created once by you or I to share.  So on my site , I'll have a repository of Genre Lists for people to get, or they can make theyre own if they want with the tools.  The no-intro codes probably will never get stripped anyways since theres no text lists.  As far as telling whats more relevant to play from a both US release and EU release, im not sure about, but it will proably be one or the other for all games I guess. 

It's summarize very well the situation. 

I know you've been through all this before.  I look forward to learning all that you've picked up in your time doing this.


Also... as soon as I make the genre selector this week, I'll post a way better video, showing all the new background transitions, the new artwork animations, a few more skins for MAME, game launching, animated backgrounds, the genre selection, wheel hyperspin, attract mode example, sound effects plus any other stuff I've worked on over the last 3 weeks.  I've actually done alot since my first post here. 

Oh and one thing that ultracade does thats really nice is that if there is no single theme for a specific game it can default to say a Capcom theme or a Taito theme for example. This is a really nice feature to give lots of games of a certain kind a common theme when you dont have a spefic skin for that game.  I havent added this in yet but will for add it for sure this week.

[Dazz]

I don't think I have ever looked forward to a front end release....   I think I've watched the video at least a dozen times and read this thread daily.

BBB - If you need a serious beta tester please let me know.  I do professional beta testing for a living, but would be more than happy to help you test this.