New Frontend (Coming Soon)

[Howard_Casto]

I am really curious to see what the emulator config is going to be like for this? 

Is it going to be all .ini and .xml files like others or a simple easy to use interface?   I found MameWAH and Mala to be excellent front ends, but configuring them to work nicely takes a lot of work.  When I was using them I was doing more configs and re-configs than I was playing anything.  I've switched to Maximus (which costs) for it's nice and easy way to setup new emulators. 

Word of warning...  no matter how fancy it ends up looking the configuration is what's gonna decided if people use it or not.  One of the things that killed dk initially is the steep learning curve for advanced configuration... something I intend on fixing this go around.  There are a lot of other fes that bit the dust as well, either because setting things up was too dang hard or there wasn't any configuration at all, meaning users couldn't tweak things the way they wanted.

Work on your backend is what I'm saying I guess.

[BadBoyBill]

Are skins going to be XML, some other plain text format, or binary files?

Are skins going to be XML, some other plain text format, or binary files?

Skins will be through xml with defaults in an ini file but you should have to edit them directly just through the backend.

I am really curious to see what the emulator config is going to be like for this? 

Is it going to be all .ini and .xml files like others or a simple easy to use interface?   I found MameWAH and Mala to be excellent front ends, but configuring them to work nicely takes a lot of work.  When I was using them I was doing more configs and re-configs than I was playing anything.  I've switched to Maximus (which costs) for it's nice and easy way to setup new emulators. 

Word of warning...  no matter how fancy it ends up looking the configuration is what's gonna decided if people use it or not.  One of the things that killed dk initially is the steep learning curve for advanced configuration... something I intend on fixing this go around.  There are a lot of other fes that bit the dust as well, either because setting things up was too dang hard or there wasn't any configuration at all, meaning users couldn't tweak things the way they wanted.

Work on your backend is what I'm saying I guess.

Im pretty sure that the learning curve is pretty low.  Maybe some light reading to get started.  I've got half a backend working but not final, and it fly's through the xml lists so far and provides easy editing and skinning.   Skinning isnt the hard part I find, its having the artwork to make it look nice, now thats what might turn people off.  But with all the good skinners out there including myself I'm sure we can come up with some stuff for people. 

Heres a shot.  Nothing special but functional.  I'll probably make something more modern after. Right Click to view better image. Sorry, dunno how to do thumbs.

[Howard_Casto]

I wasn't referring to the skinner, that part is always optional.  I think we were both referring to configuration in terms of how do you add gamelists and emulators and link to their artwork files ect....

[headkaze]

I wasn't referring to the skinner, that part is always optional.  I think we were both referring to configuration in terms of how do you add gamelists and emulators and link to their artwork files ect....

I think BadBoyBill understands the amount of work involved in writing the back-end stuff which is why he asked if anyone wanted to help.

BadBoyBill: I wrote the Setup Wizard for GameEx so I would suggest checking it out for the ideas I've used to make setup as painless as possible. The Setup Wizard has been important for new users which is why the effort to write it was important. It has features like auto-downloading emulators, different levels of config, search etc. It does seem like many people compare FE's based on how easy/hard it is to set up. To solve this FE's like GameEx have the Setup Wizard / docs, AtomicFE has it's Plugin and Play system / docs and Mala has (?) / documentation.

I also wrote the Theme Editor for GameEx but I am not the author of GameEx (Tom Speirs is). So it's a bonus if you can find someone else to do these back-end programs for you. They are huge applications in themselves.

Don't let Howard put you off, there is alot of work involved but if you have a great engine with great themes and features (which is the case thus far) then people will be willing to help take some of the workload off you for things like config programs and skin editors.

[DaveMMR]

Oh my God, I love this! 

Admittedly, when it comes to my arcade cab, I like to keep the interface simple and the selection limited to only arcade games.  But your FE is inspiring me to build a less "arcadey" dedicated game box for classic consoles and such.  I'll be keeping an eye on this! 

[BadBoyBill]

I wasn't referring to the skinner, that part is always optional.  I think we were both referring to configuration in terms of how do you add gamelists and emulators and link to their artwork files ect....

I know the above picture doesnt show alot, but as far as configuring gamelists and linking to artwork files is easily handled from that screen to.  Here are my thoughts and what it does so far, I know its nothing on the level of GameEx and your DK, but that functionality is there.

So far there is not much of an installer, just unpack and run the editor above.
The initial list is a blank main menu with dummy items in a treeview.
Simply rename those items to what you feel you will have in your frontend. ie. emulators, categories you want.
If an item in this main list doesnt have an emulator setup the button above the treeview enables[Create Submenu]
The part you dont see here is a wizard the guides you through configuring that item including building a list either from a folder of roms or converting a dat etc.. very easy.
The thing here is that this FE is designed with a wheel interface.  Currently there is not major bundle of artwork for the wheel items.  Marquees might be used but its ugly.  My goal is to create these wheel art for people with the upmost hardwork and dedication.  This is my main concern and will consume most of my time.  Which is another reason why I need help.  I'm so addicted to game artwork its not even funny.  I will sit there for hours in Photoshop busting out these wheel images for all of us.  I would like to concentrate efforts on that to. 

I know I don't have all the greatest featues including downloading emulators n stuff for you.  If this is the kind of stuff people are expecting then I don't want to get their hopes to high.   Tom Speirs is very lucky to have someone like you on his team HeadKaze, and it is a great FE, with more funcitonality than I can ever achieve.  I definitely want yours, Howards and anyones advice and take what you guys are saying into serious consideration. 

There is alot of work involved but if you have a great engine with great themes and features (which is the case thus far) then people will be willing to help take some of the workload off you for things like config programs and skin editors.

On my to church to start praying for some helping hands.

Oh my God, I love this! 

Admittedly, when it comes to my arcade cab, I like to keep the interface simple and the selection limited to only arcade games.  But your FE is inspiring me to build a less "arcadey" dedicated game box for classic consoles and such.  I'll be keeping an eye on this! 

One wheel is possible so far, you can just run only arcade games upon startup.  In my collection I have all kinds of USB game controllers, nintendo, genesis, snes, tg16, sms, all coverted to USB, and even the old N64 Adaptoids.  I want to incorporate stuff like this for people like you.  I want to have usb ports under my main control panel for that to.  Good luck.

[headkaze]

I know the above picture doesnt show alot, but as far as configuring gamelists and linking to artwork files is easily handled from that screen to.  Here are my thoughts and what it does so far, I know its nothing on the level of GameEx and your DK, but that functionality is there.

DK as in Dragon King? I'm not the author of DK Howard is. You might have got confused because he was talking about adding tweening animation recently which is an idea he took from my engine last year. Not that I care but he likes to take other peoples ideas and call them his own. The engine I'm writing is still in the works.

[SGT]

DK as in Dragon King? I'm not the author of DK Howard is. You might have got confused because he was talking about adding tweening animation recently which is an idea he took from my engine last year. Not that I care but he likes to take other peoples ideas and call them his own. The engine I'm writing is still in the works.

You're confused. He referenced "Your DK" to a quote by HC. 

[Dazz]

Man, imagine the front end possibilities that could be if only the different developers got along with each other... 

[youki]

It will be a knightmare!!!   

[SGT]

BadBoyBill,

Is plugin capabilty a possiblity or has it been ruled out?  I skimmed through the thread, but I never saw a definitive answer on that.  Sorry if I missed it.  Thanks!

[BadBoyBill]

Sorry didnt mean to confuse anyone there. 

Is plugin capabilty a possiblity or has it been ruled out?  I skimmed through the thread, but I never saw a definitive answer on that.  Sorry if I missed it.  Thanks!

Sorry bout that, Plugin funtionality is definitely doable.  It will be something I think about down the road here.

[loadman]

Sorry didnt mean to confuse anyone there. 

Is plugin capabilty a possiblity or has it been ruled out?  I skimmed through the thread, but I never saw a definitive answer on that.  Sorry if I missed it.  Thanks!

Sorry bout that, Plugin funtionality is definitely doable.  It will be something I think about down the road here.

Please do 'down the road'.  Think of it this way, a bit of work from you to enable plug-ins could save YOU a lot of work to add extra funtionality     Anyway I won't pester you .......for a while anyway 

[loadman]

Man, imagine the front end possibilities that could be if only the different developers got along with each other... 

It is getting better      I was pretty nasty not so long ago 

[headkaze]

BadBoyBill: I wrote the plugin system for GameEx so I'm happy to help with any technical challenges you face there. One thing to note is if your going to support both managed and native dll's you will have to write separate routines to deal with them. BTW loadman I did write code to allow support for non-managed dll's and Tom has it ready to implement.

One question though, what part of the FE is C# and what part is Flash/Action Script? I'm assuming here that all the visual stuff is in Flash and the back-end stuff will be C# or is it ActionScript 3? Also did you say you don't need the .NET framework? I'm a little confused here as to how it's been put together.

It is getting better      I was pretty nasty not so long ago 

I don't even think I've seen you "nasty"

[BadBoyBill]

Pretty much the whole FE is AS3.  I'm just using some 3rd party softwares to bring it to the desktop plus the ability to extend my script past its limitations.  I'm almost sure by now you will not need .NET framework.  I have 2 versions I'm playing with which is why you might have gotten confused.  Both versions are equal in speed from my tests so I'll probably use the non .NET version. 

[headkaze]

Pretty much the whole FE is AS3.  I'm just using some 3rd party softwares to bring it to the desktop plus the ability to extend my script past its limitations.  I'm almost sure by now you will not need .NET framework.  I have 2 versions I'm playing with which is why you might have gotten confused.  Both versions are equal in speed from my tests so I'll probably use the non .NET version. 

Can AS3 deal with dll's or call API functions? Just wondering about how a plugin system might work in AS3.

[BadBoyBill]

Can AS3 deal with dll's or call API functions? Just wondering about how a plugin system might work in AS3.

In a roundabout way, yes.  This is what makes it possible for me to do things like access the filesystem, read/write files from flash, read joystick movements.  Things not normally capable by flash itself. 

[headkaze]

In a roundabout way, yes.  This is what makes it possible for me to do things like access the filesystem, read/write files from flash, read joystick movements.  Things not normally capable by flash itself. 

Ahh yes I remember using the javascript function ActiveXObject() to use dll's in AS2. So yeah shouldn't be a problem adding support for plugins. Actually when I was writing "fhome" which was my little MCE looking FE in AS2 I wrote my accompanying fhome.dll which contained OS specific stuff in C#.

That is actually great, because you get the engine capabilities of Flash and the rapid development of C#. I highly recommend you code your back-end stuff in C# and keep the dependancy on .NET. It will mean you can get alot of the painful back-end stuff done with the help of the .NET Framework, and trust me it will save you alot of time by using it.

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
Wow i like it alot..looks great.. BUT I must agree that FE have to be more userfriendly to config... when can we download it??

thx
Jim

[DeLuSioNal29]

You may want to take a look at the FE "Maximus Arcade" for some ideas.  It has great backend features and is easily configurable.

http://www.maximusarcade.com/max.htm#config

~ DeLuSioNaL

[BadBoyBill]

You may want to take a look at the FE "Maximus Arcade" for some ideas.  It has great backend features and is easily configurable.

http://www.maximusarcade.com/max.htm#config

~ DeLuSioNaL

Good lookin out, I'll take a look.

Hey
Wow i like it alot..looks great.. BUT I must agree that FE have to be more userfriendly to config... when can we download it??

thx
Jim

Download in a couple few weeks I'm guessing, I'm progressing very well on some some new features.  And the backend is coming along also. 

[SGT]

BadBoyBill,

Is there or will there be a way to have a single gamelist that uses multiple emuls?  For example, if you wanted to run multiple versions of Mame, you wouldn't want to have multiple Mame gamelists.  Or another example is if you wanted to run El Semi's M2 emulator along with Zinc.  These emuls all run arcade games that you would want in the same gamelist with the Mame emulated games.  Do you follow what I'm trying to ask?  My current FE can do it, but not without a bit of "manual engineering".

Thanks!

[BadBoyBill]

BadBoyBill,

Is there or will there be a way to have a single gamelist that uses multiple emuls?  For example, if you wanted to run multiple versions of Mame, you wouldn't want to have multiple Mame gamelists.  Or another example is if you wanted to run El Semi's M2 emulator along with Zinc.  These emuls all run arcade games that you would want in the same gamelist with the Mame emulated games.  Do you follow what I'm trying to ask?  My current FE can do it, but not without a bit of "manual engineering".

Thanks!

Yes this is possible, like yours it does take some manual editing,  on per game basis.  I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do this and the only way I've come up with so far is just and alternate path exe as an option in the list database.  Like you could make a complete cps2 list, then manually add in some cps3 games with alternate paths in the list xml file.  I don't find it taking to long to make custom lists. 

[gonzo90017]

You might want to talk to Youki of AtomicFE. His way seems to be the easiest way of having all emus in one list. With Mamewah you have to make an ini file for each game. But with batch files you can make hundereds of the inis in seconds.

[mccoy178]

Looks fantastic.  Thanks for putting the effort in!

[XtraSmiley]

Looks great!

Some things you may have already considered, but I'll add here:

1.  Make it usable with an AVGA card, if possible.
2.  Make it so you can spin your wheel with a spinner, since many of us have them on the cabs.
3.  Since MAME's game list is so huge, how are you handling the second, game wheel?  Maybe the next level in can have all the letters, plus a favorites, then when you select a letter all of that letter appear.  Ignore this if you have a better system already set up.  Your video just didn't show the sub menu selection.

Keep up the great work!

[Demon-Seed]

What about having the track ball spin the wheel? just an idea.. I am sure you thought of it.  I have always wondered too why not build in some sort of "how to play" the particular game? like show the panel or something..and the control panel layout explaining which buttons etc do what..  I hate with mame when you have 1000's of games and you forget the keys for a certain game.. I think someone made a program like this cpviewer or something..anyways what about building something like that in?

later
Jim
PS- when can we expect a release?

[headkaze]

What about having the track ball spin the wheel? just an idea.. I am sure you thought of it.  I have always wondered too why not build in some sort of "how to play" the particular game? like show the panel or something..and the control panel layout explaining which buttons etc do what..  I hate with mame when you have 1000's of games and you forget the keys for a certain game.. I think someone made a program like this cpviewer or something..anyways what about building something like that in?

later
Jim
PS- when can we expect a release?

To be honest CP Viewer applications like CPViewer, Johnny 5, and my own CPWizard are harder to write than you might think. It took me a long time to get CPWizard to a level I was happy with, and that was even with the rapid development of .NET. The good news is these CP Viewer apps should work with any FE anyway. So they should all work with HyperSpin too. He just might need to do some minor testing to make sure they work together okay, but it shouldn't be a problem. Actually to run CPWizard for Mame you don't even need to send it a command line arg. For recent versions of Mame it will actually detect it running and retreive the controls for you. All you have to do is design your own CP and press pause during Mame to show the controls for the game your playing. Not only that but you can chose to not have CPWizard running in the background at all and instead apply the bezel diff file so your CP will display INSIDE Mame when you press the pause button. So you have some options there already, and BadBoyBill doesn't have to spend months or weeks writing the code to do it himself.

[BadBoyBill]

Looks great!

Some things you may have already considered, but I'll add here:

1.  Make it usable with an AVGA card, if possible.
2.  Make it so you can spin your wheel with a spinner, since many of us have them on the cabs.
3.  Since MAME's game list is so huge, how are you handling the second, game wheel?  Maybe the next level in can have all the letters, plus a favorites, then when you select a letter all of that letter appear.  Ignore this if you have a better system already set up.  Your video just didn't show the sub menu selection.

Keep up the great work!

1. Yes will work.
2. Already works
3. Working on now, push a button and brings up genre list.  It will be pretty nice.

What about having the track ball spin the wheel? just an idea.. I am sure you thought of it.  I have always wondered too why not build in some sort of "how to play" the particular game? like show the panel or something..and the control panel layout explaining which buttons etc do what..  I hate with mame when you have 1000's of games and you forget the keys for a certain game.. I think someone made a program like this cpviewer or something..anyways what about building something like that in?

later
Jim
PS- when can we expect a release?

Well I guess you can use the CPViewer indepedently , but I've been working on a control screen based on controls.ini, this screen will be customizable and will be a pretty neat part of the FE.  Yes you launch a game and based on a main category, will load a animated or static background,  and will be very simple and clean.  I will have  a little hand or arrow pointing to each button in speedy order to show available keys for that game.  You can press any key to exit this screen or wait till and will resume automatically. 

As far as a release, I'm just testing on different emu's right now, and adding small but cool features.  I cant promise a date but I know it will be soon.  I still have to put docs together also.  This is pretty much a solo project and am not really recieving any outside help which is no big deal, it will just take a little longer since its so much work involved.

[XtraSmiley]

Awesome man!  I see you said it will work with the AVGA, but earlier in this thread didn't you say it ran slow on a 9700pro?  I didn't think the AVGA was a better card than that.  Also, do you mean the original AVGA and the newer AVGA2 or just the newer one?

Either way, thanks for the hard work.  I can't wait to test it out.

[BadBoyBill]

Awesome man!  I see you said it will work with the AVGA, but earlier in this thread didn't you say it ran slow on a 9700pro?  I didn't think the AVGA was a better card than that.  Also, do you mean the original AVGA and the newer AVGA2 or just the newer one?

Either way, thanks for the hard work.  I can't wait to test it out.

Ya I've done further testing since, my laptop is crapped up, so I can really go off that, I tested it on my work computer which is just a cheepo and just onboard video, and it runs perfect, and my buddy tested it on a win2k older computer and he said it runs great.  Best way to know it once its released and see how people do.  I'm guessing the minimum requirements would be what flash's requirements are since it seems fine to run in these situations.

[Ginsu Victim]

Your FE looks awesome! I'm currently building a machine and trying to decide which frontend to use, and I may have found it.

Question: Since you already answered the question about the spinner, which was going to be my original question, can you change the graphic that shows selecting with the joystick to a graphic of turning the spinner?

Thanks.

[Demon-Seed]

Hey
I can't wait.. well I have too. I have a few bills to pay before I can commit to a new build :(no big deal..... cant wait to try this...

thanks
Jim

[Cakemeister]

What I want to know is where the artwork came from. Obviously a lot of work went into that skin.

[headkaze]

What I want to know is where the artwork came from. Obviously a lot of work went into that skin.

Lol I can tell Cakemeister is dying to write an importer for this skin I agree it's a fantastic looking skin and it must have taken ages just to get all the artwork together for it

[Dazz]

Ok, it's been a couple weeks... Where is our download?

[BadBoyBill]

What I want to know is where the artwork came from. Obviously a lot of work went into that skin.

Well proably 90 percent of the artwork from the video I did on my own all in vector format then converted to png's.  I actually enjoy doing the artwork more the writing the program.

Lol I can tell Cakemeister is dying to write an importer for this skin I agree it's a fantastic looking skin and it must have taken ages just to get all the artwork together for it

It is things like this that makes me very hesitant to release HyperSpin with all the skins,  and rather just have users share amongst eachother their creations which I'm sure there will be some good ones.   It did take along time to make all that art and it is time consuming,  I'd rather it go to good use than be used to promote other frontends. We'll see though.

Ok, it's been a couple weeks... Where is our download?

Please be patient, alot of work is going into this right now, no I'm not just sitting around, I'm just wrapping up my mame listxml converter(list maker) and will integrate it into the rest of the backend I'm working on.  The frontend is fully functional and ready to go I think.  Theres just no simple way to get started yet without manual editing of the ini files and lists.  And there are no docs yet.  I'm trying. 

[headkaze]

It is things like this that makes me very hesitant to release HyperSpin with all the skins,  and rather just have users share amongst eachother their creations which I'm sure there will be some good ones.   It did take along time to make all that art and it is time consuming,  I'd rather it go to good use than be used to promote other frontends. We'll see though.

I don't think I've seen a skin like the one you've created ever. So obviously the interest in your FE stems from it's skin. People are going to want to have that skin, because it really is the best one out there IMHO.

Unfortunately it's going to happen whether you like it or not but that's just the way it is. It's happened to every other FE in the past already so your not the first. Take a look a Khameleon, even it's name has some implications there, it can import most other well know FE formats. It proves that it's not the skin that makes the FE. That's why it's the engine and back end that has alot of baring on it's success. I think it might bother other FE authors that someone will write an importer for their skin format, but what is wrong with that really? This is not a commercial arena. People will still use your FE if it does the things they want it to. Personally I think the new 3d FE authors should get together and make a standard format. So I think people need to ask themselves what makes a FE, the skin or the engine and back end? Don't let it put you off, this is a hobby and it's supposed to be for fun afterall.

Personally I get more enjoyment sharing my creations with people than competing with them. Don't forget there is a whole community here and there is more to success than writing the best FE.

[Cakemeister]

I'd rather it go to good use than be used to promote other frontends.

That remark leaves a bad taste in my mouth.