please critique my control panel

[clickhea]

okay here we go, a very rough draft of what i have in mind for my control panel.

the arcade it self is:
29 1/2 inches wide
control panel ledge - 14 inches long

the control panel is:
37 1/2 wide (giving me about 4 inches of over hang on each side of the arcade)
15 inches long 17 inches long 15 inches long (its angled in the front so those are the 3 measurements from back to front)



i printed out those templates just to get a rough idea of where everything is going to go, iam not using those templates to drill my button holes or my joysticks.

the "L & R" buttons are left and right mouse click buttons which i understand are not needed but i placed them there for a few reasons
1) left and right mouse clicks
2) for the spinner
3) so the panel doesnt look so empty in that area

thats a turbotwist 2 spinner from ggg which is the size of a button hole.
2 u360 joysticks
happ buttons
happ highball

the trackball is sitting lower than the buttons and joysticks that way games like golden tea wont cause you to hit your hand on the arcade glass.

any and all input (good or bad) is appreciated.

heres a rough idea of what it looks like on the arcade



if anyone feels the 4 inches of over hang on each side of the arcade is too much please let me know.
i figured it allows for a roomier control panel so you wont be bumping into each other.



and so the journey begins

[pcb]

Are you planning on cutting the cab so you have room for the controls?

[clickhea]

iam not sure what you mean

why would i cut the cab?  if your referring to my other post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75932.0

 
its already been done(pictures provided in other thread). if not please elaborate

[Avrus]

iam not sure what you mean

why would i cut the cab?  if your referring to my other post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75932.0

 
its already been done(pictures provided in other thread). if not please elaborate

What he means is there doesn't appear to be any 'depth' planned in for the control mounting.  Looking at your mockup, putting a box under your panel would raise the CP up into the monitor area.  It appears you need to cut more off the sides where your control panel top is sitting?

n/m I see the picture you're using above is outdated and you've already cut the space on the cab.
 

[clickhea]

ah yeah i see

the little white things you see under the control panel are lifting it up about 4 1/2 inches to get an idea of where it'll lay

[pcb]

Yup, that's what I meant, it looked like there were no room for the controls.  The box will lift it up usually between 3" and 4".  If you already have that covered you should be good to go, if you have a plan to affix the box to the cab, that is.

[clickhea]

iam more worried about my actual layout right now

but i appreciate the input

[DaveMMR]

1. I'd move the joysticks in a bit on each side (maybe an inch) if you're worried about overhang.  You have plenty of room to work with. 

2. See if you're comfortable with the distance between the buttons and joystick before committing.   There's nothing wrong with the way you have it now, just a suggestion.  You can put them closer if needed (i.e space saving).

3. I still don't see any real need for left/right mouse buttons but that's just me. 

Otherwise... solid.   

[clickhea]

alright cool

iam gonna make a real mockup tomororw with exact measurements i'll be sure to post it here



i hear ya about the "mouse buttons"

i figure they are good there for the spinner as well

[protokatie]

Looking good.

About the overhang: I was planning the same thing, and if done right wont look bad. It gives more space to put quarters, and when playing it, it may make the machine feel bigger and more "Authentic" (atleast this is the impression I get when imagining it). I was also thinking of making the marquee be wider than the main part of the cab, but I may not go with that idea as it may make the cab look dorky..

BTW, how much $$ in wood did you have to put down to get that far in that style of cab? I am curious, as I am under major budget constraints...

[clickhea]

thats about 75 bucks worth of wood (give or take a few $)

the front and the back isnt attached yet, but its cut out.

[leapinlew]

Ditch the mouse Left and Right buttons. Also, move the spinner somewhere else. If you plan on playing some shuffleshot or golden tee - that spinner is in a bad place.

I agree with those asking you about the overhang though... You may want to make sure you have enough room for controls.

[protokatie]

Clickhea, what kind of wood are you using? When I looked into some of the thinker (3/4 inch or so) stuff, I was getting quotes at like 100+ bucks per sheet! You pretty much have all of the major cab wood and only spent 75 dollars? What is the secret I am missing?

[clickhea]

3/4 mdf

go to a lumber yard you'll find it  alot cheaper than home depot

[protokatie]

Thanx, Clickhea.

Cant wait to see your wooden prototype.

[clickhea]

anytime bro

[protokatie]

anytime bro

Bro? hehe. Apparently you didnt look at the other pics in my photobucket account (assuming you ever clicked on my links to my cardboard prototype that is).

 

[clickhea]

oops i apologize, i didnt even read your name at the time, i was just responding

sorry i apologize

[protokatie]

No need to, just thought it was funny.

Here, have a cold one:   

[pcb]

i hear ya about the "mouse buttons"

i figure they are good there for the spinner as well

Mouse buttons are a great addition if you ever want to use the trackball as a mouse in windows without having to pull out the keyboard.  I personally like to have 3 mouse buttons, L C R.  When using a mouse hack, I wire up button under the mouses scroll wheel as the Center button, perfect for Missile Command.

[clickhea]

i hear ya pcb


heres a little somthing iam having a problem understanding.

iam trying to make a button template for my self.

how close can the buttons be next to each other without the little screw caps on the bottom of the panel being in the way of each other?

1 3/4 spacing is a little too much for me, but it looks like any less and the screw caps wont be able to sit flush with the wood

also maybe iam looking at this wrong.

when my fingers are at rest on the buttons should all my fingers be touching the centers of each button?   or does that not how you measure out weather buttons are comfortable or not for your specific hand

[clickhea]

btw this is the layout iam trying out right now

i think it belongs to jave on the forums

anything wrong with this?

[NoOne=NBA=]

I would either move your controls toward the center and trim the CP down a bit, or add second sticks for each player.
As it sits, you are going to be playing all your games way off to the side of your monitor.

As far as the angled buttons go, whatever is most comfortable for you will work.
If your CP was smaller, I'd worry about elbow conflicts, but I don't think your players could hit each other with their elbows if they tried.

Make sure you hit all those 1-3/8" spacings though.
The upper bezels on Happ's buttons are 1.32", and the nuts are a bit bigger.
I space all of mine like that, but you have to be careful.
A fraction too short, and the nuts are overlapping each other on the bottom.

[clickhea]

i cut the control panel down alot. (4 inches)

the over hang is only 2 inches on each side now.

it looked retarded with 4 inches once i saw where the controls were going.

gonna post some updated pics tomorrow

[clickhea]

alright heres my first go at it with real measurements.







a major concern of mine is the trackball, does it seem like its too close to the player 2 joystick? the last thing i want is for someone to swing at the trackball and end up taking off the joystick with it.

the problem is, if i move the joystick over anymore the control panel wont appear even.. whats going on? am i overlooking somthing?

i also dont want to move the trackball higher because i want it as far as possible from the screen.

iam also not 100% sure i like the spinner where it is.. but i dont really have anywhere else to put it

the paper under the left joystick is nothing, it was just there when i was taking pictures.

and the randomly colored buttons is just because i grabed the first button i pulled outa the box and stuck it in the hole

[clickhea]

oh man, i just realized this will not work at all because the trackball mounting plate is going to be in the way

sigh

the first player joystick is measured over from the left.  its in 3 inches.

what do i use as the basis for the 2nd player joystick to make sure the 2nd player part of the panel mirrors the first player?

[leapinlew]

Ditch the trackball plate... I don't use one.

[protokatie]

Ditch the trackball plate... I don't use one.

I wont be using a trackball at all, but for Clickhea, I would say that the trackball doesnt HAVE to be on the center line. It would look just fine (IMHO) if you moved a little to the left and down a little. Or follow Fry's idea and not use the cover for it...

[DaveMMR]

The spinner might be better above the left-most buttons, so you're not reaching around joysticks to get to it. 

And you could always push the trackball and sticks up a bit just to clear the overhang.  I got all the same stuff (TB, sticks, buttons, spinner) on my panel and it's only 10 inches deep*, if that much.  So believe me, you've got plenty of room to spare.

*(Yeah... it's not the best setup for Golden Tee or any game you're slamming the ball, but it works quite well for all other games).

[clickhea]

where are you saying to move the spinner too? iam not quite understanding

i guess i'll have to not use this trackball mount :[

there goes 25 bucks wasted

are these trackball mount plates made for really big control panels?

the only problem i have with mounting it from underneath is it wont sit exactly flush


would there be any reason not to make the control panel box the same shape as the top that way i could move the trackball down even lower?

almost all the pictures i seen of control panel boxes are rectangle, which leaves a few inches of overhang

[DaveMMR]

where are you saying to move the spinner too? iam not quite understanding

i guess i'll have to not use this trackball mount :[

there goes 25 bucks wasted

are these trackball mount plates made for really big control panels?

the only problem i have with mounting it from underneath is it wont sit exactly flush


would there be any reason not to make the control panel box the same shape as the top that way i could move the trackball down even lower?

almost all the pictures i seen of control panel boxes are rectangle, which leaves a few inches of overhang

The spinner can stay on the same horizontal line you have it now, but put it between the theoretical vertical lines from the right part of the left-most button set and the left edge of the trackball plate.   Here's my panel - note the placement of the hard to see spinner.



I really need to take a better picture of that one day.

And no, you didn't waste $25.  Remember, only the screws need to clear the overhang cut-off.   I'm sure you could push everything up ever so slightly (joysticks, buttons, TB) to allow it all to fit. 

My trackball plate actually hangs a little over where the front wood support is (had to route out a little for the screws too).  It's all good! 

[clickhea]

ahhhhhhh i gotcha,

i was thinking about putting my spinner exactly where u had it, but i figured right handers will move their hand to the left after spinning the trackball a little bit,   have you noticed that issue at all?

also another thing i dont get is, when your marking out the 2nd player controls what do you use as the basis for everything the center of the control panel? or do you start with the player 2 buttons and work your way over to the joystick

[Avrus]

What kind of spacing do you have between those buttons? They seem ... too close together.

[DaveMMR]

ahhhhhhh i gotcha,

i was thinking about putting my spinner exactly where u had it, but i figured right handers will move their hand to the left after spinning the trackball a little bit,   have you noticed that issue at all?

I think very few games where the trackball is involved requires insane hand movement.  Most of the ones I play (Centipede, Marble Madness, Cabal, Crystal Castles, et. al.) play better with controlled rolling as opposed to wild flailing.  Now, as for Golden Tee, the strong rolling movement if mostly vertical (or to the NW or NE when you want to curve your shots).  If the spinner is far enough back, I don't see it as much of an issue. 

also another thing i dont get is, when your marking out the 2nd player controls what do you use as the basis for everything the center of the control panel? or do you start with the player 2 buttons and work your way over to the joystick

This is what I did:  I found the center of my panel (in my case, 12.5 inches) and put the trackball smack in the middle.  That's the easy part.  In Adobe (or whatever program you'd like to use), I used actual-sized templates to work everything out.  First I found the spacing between the stick and buttons and, when I was happy with it, make that one "element".  Copy and paste that stick/button combo and drag it over to the right side (keeping the vertical position unchanged of course).   I position the P2 stick/button set from the right edge more or less the same distance the P1 stick/button set is from the left edge.  Those distances are not evident on a completed panel because the placement is based on joystick plates and whatnot and no one sees them.  Nevertheless, it's still a good guideline.

Now, if I make any adjustments to one button/stick set, I make a similar adjustment to the other.  Example: I move the buttons on the left two "ticks" closer to the stick (I use clicks as a nonsensical measurement for demonstrative purposes).  I do the same thing to the right set.   When it's all done, I print out a full size template and test it out.

I just reread all the above and it's a big jumble of words.  But I'm too lazy to re-edit it to a more understandable group of paragraphs.  Basically, just measure, plan, look over the layout and test it out.

[clickhea]

no i understand pretty much exactly what your saying.

i was trying to measure everything out with a ruler, maybe photoshop would be better

[clickhea]

heres somthing thats bothering me a bit, hopefully i can get  a few quick responses on this.


i feel like the trackball sits too close to the player 2 joystick.  It has to if i want the control panel exactly even.  I could make the control panel a little larger and have it sit another inch away from the trackball, but the problem is the players are a bit too far off the screen.. at least in my opinion.

the picture dave posted shows exactly what i mean where the trackball is pretty close to the player 2 joystick.

i guess i either have to have the players further off center, or just live with it being somewhat close i cant think of any other options.

i guess my best bet is to live with it being close because most games being played on the cab wont require the trackball.

agreed? or am i looking at this wrong

[DaveMMR]

If it helps you, the joystick never gets in my way. (The back glass on the other hand...  well, that's met with a few hands.  It was not designed for Golden Tee type furiousity.)  But that's just me.  I would build a test panel out of scrap or cardboard and play a few games.  That's the only way to be sure it's right for you. 

[clickhea]

only problem is i dont have the computer for the arcade yet, thats coming later on so i wont really get to play with the cardboard mockup

i'll have to take my chances with that.

this is driving me insane

[DaveMMR]

Then what are you using to post?     You don't have to use your "arcade computer".  When I made mine, I did a quick mock-up and hooked everything up "loosely", "quickly" and "sloppily" (i.e. trackball, maybe a couple of buttons, etc.) just to get a feel of everything.  It was all hooked up via USB cables to my desktop computer.

[clickhea]

ah thats true, i could use this computer

i just figured that from the center of the joystick to the center of the track ball is about 6 inches with my panel being 35 inches instead of 33

i think 6 inches may be enough

[clickhea]

one more question

if i moved the tv back a bit further from the players, the viewing angle would probably be better for the players if the players were a little off to the side right?

[clickhea]

drilled out my button layout into a scrap piece of wood, what do you guys think?





feels really comfortable so far, wont know for sure i guess untill ive been playing on it for a while

any input?

[protokatie]

drilled out my button layout into a scrap piece of wood, what do you guys think?

 

Looks almost exactly the same as my layout! Except I used different colors. Maybe you should install the joy on that scrap as well, and play an hour or so of games to find out. I would like to know before I commit to your (erm I mean my) button layout.

[DaveMMR]

Looks good (though uniform colors or at least an obvious pattern will give it less of that "conversion" look).      And yes, test it out for comfort.  A good half hour.

And don't stress the measurements to the point where you're pushing the monitor back all the way to Canada. It will allow you to put the joysticks more to the side, but then you can't play Robotron with two sticks.   

[clickhea]

ah yeah, the buttons are going to be all blue

i just put in the first buttons i pulled outa the box just to see what it looks like  ;o)

i posted the button layout in the first page, i took it from jave in a post i found  was it yours originally?

[protokatie]

i took it from jave in a post i found  was it yours originally?

If you are refering to me, the design you posted on the first post isnt the one you ended up testing. I was refering to the test you did with scrap wood, as it looks almost exactly like the one I planned out. (And "tested" using a cardboard box) (IE the 7 button thing)

Play some games with your layout, I would like to get feed back since the buttons are arranged almost exactly as the ones I have planned. The cardboard prototype I made seemed to work just fine and I played it for awhile and it was comfortable.

[quarterback]

It's personal preference, but I think your Player1 joystick is too far off to the left.

I guess it will depend on how often you're playing games that only require the use of one joystick, but with my CP I found that I wished I was standing more in front of the monitor instead of off to one side, and your P1 joystick is certainly further to the left than mine is.  I mean, in that cardboard mock up, your P1 joystick is lined up with the left edge of your cabinet.   In the next revision of my CP, I plan on shifting everything to the right instead of centering the trackball in the very middle.

[clickhea]

yeah its pretty much line up with the edge

i was looking at some photos of peoples cabs (knievel, mountains mame) and it seemed like thats where their joysticks were.


i agree it would be nicer to have the joystick closer to the center, but how would you make the control panel look uniform when everything is shifted over to the right?  also how are u dealing with the player 2 joystick? are u going to have that way off to the right?

btw katie, this is the design iam talking about (which i got off javes post)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9782/controlsyy3.jpg

i just added a 7th button after a few minor measurements :oP   will let u know how it works out for me

[protokatie]

i just added a 7th button after a few minor measurements :oP   will let u know how it works out for me

Yeah, i was refering to the pic of your 7 button prototype. And thanx, I wont be getting any MDF for a few weeks to start out on my own, so it would be nice to get info on how it works out, seeing as how close in design your 7 and my 7 button layouts are.

[clickhea]

the only thing thats stopping me from starting my control panel is iam not sure where i want the joysticks

if i put them near the edge its great for the trackball but the players are a bit off to the side of the screen

if i put them closer its better for the players but the trackball is very close to the plyer 2 joystick

its been bothering the heck outa me

[quarterback]

yeah its pretty much line up with the edge

i was looking at some photos of peoples cabs (knievel, mountains mame) and it seemed like thats where their joysticks were.

For whatever reason your cardboard mockup just makes it look really far to the left.  And since mine bugs me, it's just something that I notice.   All my controls are pretty crammed together underneath and it looks like you've got some room to spare if you wanted to bunch yours closer to the center.

Below is the layout of my CP.  I'll dig up the measurements when I can, but I've got everything crammed pretty much as tightly in as I could and I just find myself wishing I was standing more directly in front of my machine.  If I were to do it again (or WHEN I do it again) I'll probably lose or move the P2 buttons so I can shift everything over just a bit.   I never have a 2nd player anyway so the 2nd joystick is really just used for CrazyClimber, BattleZone, Robotron and the like.

EDIT TO ADD FOR REFERENCE:  The 1 horizontal and 2 rectangular "bars" in the picture represent the interior of my cab.   From right to left, there are 23-inches of available space between the two sides in which to fit my controls.  Also, the trackball is a 2-1/4"