ShellShock, a game being developed for BYOAC

[Pongo]

Latest version will always be available from this first post.

New Version available 2.1.08
- 4 players
- basic AI
- sounds

http://arcadecontrols.com/files/Games/ShellShock.002C.zip






Original post below:
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I'm not sure where I should put this, so I'm putting it in here.

I'm looking to start a new programming project, and I thought I'd open it up here for discussion. The end goal is to make a new game that is playable on our cabinets. This will be available to everyone here for free.

What I need, however, are some ideas. It should be a simple arcade-style game, and graphics will match.

I have a few ideas already, but I'd like to hear what some of you might be interested in. Since it will be designed around a cabinet, feel free to use dual joysticks, spinner,trackball,...etc.


Thanks,


more to come.....

[AtomSmasher]

Are you looking for help making the game or just ideas on what to make?

I'm currently working on a little game that is basically a clone of Desktop Tower Defense just because I haven't done any programming in a while and wanted to brush up on my skills and make a fun little game.  It's still a long ways from being finished though.

If you want some help programming the game, I'll gladly put my project off to the side and team up with you to make something new.  If you just want some ideas, then I'm sure with everyones help here we can come up with something pretty good.

[Pongo]

Let me clarify a bit...

I'm a graphic artist and also a programmer, so I have those parts down. Also, I can also generate pretty much any sound effect I need, so the only area I may need help with is music if any is used.

What I am looking for are some ideas primarily, and I thought it might be fun to have the whole process out in the open where input could be given from the start, specifically from people that play a lot of arcade games. It would be an opportunity for someone that has thought,..."I wish that they would have made a game that __________" and actually see it become a reality.

I'm open to help on the project, but at the moment I'm only looking for input at the ideas phase.

[AtomSmasher]

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what your using to make it, but I'm making my latest game with Microsofts recently released Dark GDK which is a free addon to Visual Studio Express 2008.  I was surprised at how simple they made several commonly used 2D and 3D operations and so far I really like it.  It reminds me a lot of a much more powerful version of GLUT, except for course for being DirectX and not OpenGL.  Just thought I'd give you a heads up if you haven't taken a look at it yet.

[Pongo]

here are some pictures to hopefully get the ball rolling.


These are some frames of a character I designed. The gameplay concept was similar to marble madness, and you would have to unicycle your way through the levels. I wanted to incorporate keeping your balance into the gameplay. I also tried this in full 3d, but ended up shelving it after early gameplay tests.



This is a screenshot of a Geometry Wars style game. This is mostly complete, but I stopped working on it due to the large number of GW clones being made.




These are not really arcade style, but I've wanted to do an "updated" version of combat.

[ChadTower]

I really, really like that Combat concept, especially the visuals.  I've thought a bit about one of those myself... one where the bullets are actually persistent objects... once they run their momentum out, they just sit like landmines, and if you roll over one you blow up.  To keep the playfield from becoming too cluttered to move I'd limit the amount of shots a player can take in any given duration... maybe 1 shot every 10-15 seconds.  It would give each board a nice finite feel to it and would make a nice game for up to 4 players.

[saint]

Xiaou2 had a game he was trying to develop some time ago that looked fun as well. When I get home I'll try to dig up the link to see if that's still something to consider. I also really like the combat thing, and Chad's ideas there also. Sweet! Let me know if you need web space or such.

[zaphod]

Love the Combat shots!  One of my favorite 2600 carts.

[lanman31337]

Remember scorched earth?  I'd like a clone of that, but something we can network and play.  3d is nice, but 2d was where it was at!

[ahofle]

OMG you MUST finish that combat game.  I love the style too.  To make it even better, you could incorporate some elements from Scorched Earth and allow the player to angle the turret to shoot over the walls (you have to calculate the angle, have wind speeds, etc).  Also pickups and some special abilities.  Maybe even buildings that when shot would collapse and damage any tanks nearby!

[Pongo]

If you are not going to contribute, could you at least refrain from posting random images in this thread?

Thanks.

I guess I'll start working on the tanks... Any opinions on the controls? Dual stick would be cool, but probably not the best since this should be playable for 2 players on CP's with only 2 sticks.

[ahofle]

For arcade control compatibility, I'd go with a single standard 8 way for tank movement, a fire button, and if you chose to explore the turret angle suggestion, two addition buttons to raise and lower the turret.  Perhaps a 4th button to use your special ability/pickup. 
What kind of hardware would be required for gameplay to look like that bottom picture?  Looks like a lot.  For some reason, I LOVE the black and white look of it.  Maybe you could have a BW/Color toggle in the options as homage to the 2600? 

[Pongo]

Hey,... no problems here,... I was just trying to minimize the roadkill references before this thing even got off the ground!

Looks like I'll be starting over on the tanks. I can't seem to find the files at the moment, and it's been a few years since I made those. Maybe it is on my laptop (I'll check that later tonight)

First thing to do is getting the tank controls working. I'll go for single stick controls where left/right will turn you, and forward/back will move you ... erm... forward and back.

feel free to post suggestions, and I will hope to have a moving test up this week.

[ahofle]

I figured he was just doubting you to give you extra motivation to prove him wrong. 

[tommy]

Make a game where you pick a name from most byoac names as your player, then you try to fend off attacks of other members in the PnR section and try to survive without getting banned. 

Sorry you have said too much, you're banned, game over!!

[CheffoJeffo]

I look forward to playing "Tommy vs PBJ" v0.1 in the near future.

[Pongo]

I'm familiar with the marble insanity project. I spoke with Mark a few years ago about it. At the time I was looking for someone to help with programming one of my own projects and did not want to jump into the middle of someone else's work.

Anyways,... completely understand about the finished projects thing. (Yes, I do have a number of "unfinished" projects sitting on my hard drive.) That is part of why I am doing this here. Most of my previous programs have all been for myself only, so once I get them to a point I enjoy playing them, then there is not much need to go further. If I know that I am developing for (even just a few) people I'll have a bit more incentive to complete. The more feedback I can get, the better.

Now for a bit of an update: I found the old models on my laptop, but they needed a bit of work to get them ready for the game engine. Tonight I have started building the game engine a bit, and should have 2 tanks moving around soon.

[Xiaou2]

 Pongo,  well, I think the biggest problem with 3d tanks is that objects can get
in the way of your view...  and may be frustrating.   Also, I believe it limits the
playfield size possible.

 I loved Combat tanks for the 2600.  However, the size of the field was too
small imop.   Also limits more than 2 players.

 A also love Tron's Tank section,   Where the Turret is controlled via a spinner.

 I may help with the design..  but if it goes on sale,  then I would expect some
compensation if my ideas were used.   Does this seem fair to you?



 I want to add...  that I believe the game should be designed near fully first before
programming starts.   Otherwise you may have to scrap a huge load of code, or all
of it..   

Or another thing that happens... is that you realize mid-point that you want to do
something... and can not.   By that time, the game can not be reworked to accomplish
that new feature.    This has happened on MI, as well as some others.

 Best to plan all details, control methods, and appearance mockups first.

[Pongo]

Don't have any time at the moment to type anything out (at work) but I wanted to make one thing clear.

This game will never be sold. Ever. Freebie all the way.

The whole idea is to create a new fun and entertaining game that can run on our cabinets. I'd like to be able to get enough input to make it a worthwhile game to play.


I'll address the other points later today when I get a chance.

[Xiaou2]

 Pongo, 

    Maybe we could at least set up a Donation box.    The funds could go to any number of
things.   Part could be donated to the Mame PCB Preservation efforts.  Part could go to dev of
other future games.  Part could help keep my internet from being shut off  heh (sadly, no job yet)

  Anyways, Ive been coming up with some great ideas that I believe you will like.
However, give me till the weekend to develop things fully.   The best ideas take time to
flesh and balance out.

 Without giving anything much away yet..  I believe the game should remain top view.   

 Instead of focusing on graphic details first...   We should make a game that has very simple graphics
such as vector,  and focus all efforts on perfecting gameplay.   

 This is why the Older classics are still better than most anything new today.  They spent ton
of time tweaking the gamplay to perfection.  Graphics were not the main concern.   
 
 However, after the gamplay is mastered.. one could later insert new graphics in place.  That will
be a choice later down the road.   Also, the simplicity will help keep the project moving fast.  Sometimes
too much effort is places on GFX, and when the workload is too great, the project stalls.  Other games
look great..  but the play is not really that fun..  so its has little to no value at all.

 Overall, we should be able to complete the game in less time, with better results.
 
 Anyways, I should have a great design fleshed out in a short time. 
If you like, start jotting down your ideas too.. and we can compare them
together Monday.

 If you are unsure of the Top view  -vs- 3d..   at least give me time to make my points and
mockups.   Then BYOAC can vote on it if you like.

[SGT]

Without giving anything much away yet..  I believe the game should remain top view.   

Ouch.  Those 3D images posted above sure look good.

[Lilwolf]

And if your still considering new ideas.

I started writing (didn't get all that far) MrDigDug (Mr driller using digdug graphics)

Any game using robotron type controls is always a favorite.

I think the arkanoid thing has been way over done personally... so I would stay away from that.

A defender style game would be GREAT if it used the original controls! 

I would think of the control panel you would want... and go in that direction.  Most people have dual 8way controls with 4-8 buttons... But there are TONs of games for them.  You might want to go with one that could use something a little less normal... 

Good luck

[Pongo]

Whew,... what a day. Crazy busy at work, and then crazy at home too. Looks like I'll get some time to work on this after posting finally.

As of right now, the tank game is the one that will move forward. I've made a few major decisions already.

1. The game will be designed to run on a joystick and 2-3 buttons. This will make it available to a larger audience. I'd love to make it work with dual joysticks like battlezone, but that really limits what machines can play it, so no.

2. Initially, it will be a 2 player game. (It can be bumped up to 4 players later)

3.  The turret will not rotate. This is to keep the game simple, and also because of the limited controls used.

4. The game will be in 3D, but will be in a top-down view overlooking the entire arena. The viewpoint will be similar to the arena shot above, but a bit higher up. From this viewpoint, the walls will not get in the way. (they are quite short) This would be similar to driving RC vehicles around. There will be NO 1st person views.



Right now I have coded up some simple movement controls, and I'm trying to figure out what seems to work. Here are a few options for feedback.

1. Joystick Up/down = forward/back , Joystick left/right = turn , button 1 = fire , button 2=drop mine

2. Joystick Up/down = raise/lower turret , Joystick left/right = turn, button 1 = accelerate, button 2 = fire

3. Other,... Give me feedback.

The first method would keep the barrel locked into position. The shots could fire straight out, or at an elevated angle.
For both methods, perhaps by holding down the button you could get a longer/shorter shot.

The next thing to decide will be rate of fire. I don't want the player to be able to just keep mashing the button lobbing shot after shot in the air. I'm thinking either a timed limit on single shots, or perhaps a small burst (Maybe 3 in the air at any one time)


Playtesting may dictate how some of this works, but for now it is open.

Feedback welcome. I'll try to get the first test up as soon as possible, since that will show a lot more than I can type here.

Most likely, the first test will be 2 tanks driving around without any collisions or firing in place yet, and I hope to complete that phase in the next week.

-Troy

[Xiaou2]

 Update:

  Well,  I just fired up the 2600 Emulator and played Combat.   Funny how memmories
get very fuzzy over time.   I realize Combat isnt very fun.. and that the only thing I
really enjoyed was the Fighter Plane section in that game.

 Then I went to Mame to see the various Tank games.

 None of the Tank games that used a Single joystick were any fun at all.  lol

 
 The best Tank Games were all dual stick: 

Assault, Vindicators, Sarge, and Trons tank section.

 - Assault is probably the best tank game ever made.  Its ability to both roll (press
both sticks left or right) ,  Fire into the sky (both stick opposite each other),  and the
rest are really innovative and help the game to play fast and smooth.   I LOVE the
scaling in this game when you hit the Jump Pads.   In the air, you can rotate and
drop bombs all over the area to clear its enemies before you trek out that way.

 - Vindicators:  I Dont have the dual trigger stick up yet.  U used dual analog gamepad..
which worked 'ok'  but was a little hard cause it needed buttons too.   Was really
cool because of the amount of control you have over the tank.  The turrets moved
well with buttons.   The tank was fast and smooth.  Lots of interesting objectives, enemies,
and challenges.  Upgrades too.

- Sarge has nice controls and furious nonstop action.  Many attackers come at you all
at once.  You can pilot the tank and the helicopter.  Very interesting and fun.

 
 The only game that came close was  Armor Attack.   You drove a JEEP however,  and
it drives at like Mach 1    hehe    But its nothing like a typical tank game.


  And Finally,  Tron:

  Trons Tank section is pure fun.   Moves smoothly, and the Dial control for the Turret is
heavenly.   I think if dual trigger sticks are out... a Tron setup is next down the line. 

 Only problem with Trons setup is that all the action is locked into 90 degree movement.  If
it were changed... Im not sure if it would be the same.    Even if Tron was fitted with the
basic 1joy control method in Combat... at least there would be good turret action to keep it
interesting.
 

[youki]

Games like combat on Atari 2600 are very funny when you play with 2 or more human player.

Alone or again a computer is less funny.

The 2600 version had lot variant , with bouncing bullet or not,  other where you was able to dribe the "bullet"..    invsible tank also i think.    You had bomber, fighter,   3 planes formations.. and you was able to mix for combat.

I love that game.

[Howard_Casto]

I started on a combat remake but eventually abandoned it.  The three things that I personally feel it needs to survive for a modern audience are intelligent computer ai  (not everybody is gonna want to play 2 player), online support (some people will want to play 2 player, only they won't have anyone handy to play with), and power-ups.  Also a level editor is pretty mandatory because no matter how talented you are with level design it's gonna get real old real quick.  It was for this reason that I decided to go 2d instead.  It's very hard to do 3d with level editing capabilites without it looking fairly patched together.  Anyway, I had a ton of ideas for powerups and what-not.  If you want I can dig up the thread.  For that matter you can search for yourself if you are in a hurry. 

[RetroBorg]

These are not really arcade style, but I've wanted to do an "updated" version of combat.

I really like the look of this, perhaps this sort of look but with Tron tanks and recognizer, e.g. Space Paranoids.

A game I really liked was Platypus, I like how the graphics looks like Playdoh, perhaps somethin like this but up down scroller instead of left right.



http://www.retro64.com/platypus_game.asp

[Pongo]

Thanks for the comments.

Platypus is awesome. Anthony Flack (The programmer on that) has made a bunch of claymation style games, and they are always top row stuff.

One genre I'm going to stay away from is the vert/horizontal shooter. There are so many out there already I don't feel I can add anything to improve on.

What I'm looking to do is create a new game, not a remake. There will be inspiration drawn from other games, but the goal is to make a new experience, not a "classic experience" with better graphics. I really can't stand "modern" versions of classic games,... I'd rather play the originals in most cases.

Control method 1 has been coded in now, and it controls great on the keyboard. Unfortunately, it doesn't work nearly as well with a stick, and that is the end goal.I am avoiding spinners and dual sticks because I want this playable for two players, and I don't think there are many multiple spinner/dual stick machines.

Control method 2 will be in place soon, and I think it may work better.

[ahofle]

One suggestion to stop the fire button mashing is to have your turret overheat, similar to Astro Blaster.  A little temperature gauge or something that requires you to strategically manage your shots.

It sounds like you are considering the turret angle thing -- I really hope so as I think that will bring on a whole new dimension of play (accidentally shooting yourself trying to lob a shot almost straight up and over a barricade LOL).

[Howard_Casto]

Thanks for the comments.

What I'm looking to do is create a new game, not a remake. There will be inspiration drawn from other games, but the goal is to make a new experience, not a "classic experience" with better graphics. I really can't stand "modern" versions of classic games,... I'd rather play the originals in most cases.

Well with all due respect, based on what you've said, you are making a remake.  Tanks shooting each other in a maze is combat, regardless of what you call it or what features you add.  The thread I was referring to added dozens of weapon types and gameplay differences but I still considered it a remake because... well it's two tanks shooting each other in a maze so how could you consider it anything other than a remake?

[bfauska]

I'm really digging the look of the tank game, especially in the all white. I wonder if you could stick to a solid color theme so that the opponents could at least be different colors, but solid colored, and the maze would be another color. The simplicity is beautiful. I like the idea of a level editor and don't think it would be too hard in 3d if it was built into the system from the begining and limited the user to a flat field with straight-full-height walls of various sizes and shapes.

Do the tank tracks roll when they drive?

[Pongo]

howardCasto: fair enough. It's the same as Geometry Wars Being called a remake of Robotron. There are going to be similarities, and inspiration has been drawn from the earlier games. I'm just saying that I won't be trying to replicate the gameplay of the original, but instead create a new experience.

Back on topic,... the tanks will be white and charcoal grey respectively. Color will be used sparingly, and the whole arena will have a clean white look to it. Exploded shells will leave marks on the floor making things a bit messy after a bit.

And yes, the tracks roll. I've already got that in place. (although I need to set up each side independently so they move when you turn also.) If things go really well tonight, I may even have a first look ready tomorrow, and I think that will show things a lot better than I can explain by typing.

[Xiaou2]

 Too all :

  Well to start out,  the screen shot isnt even what the game would look
like... because the edges are cropped off.  If your tank was in either
corner - you wouldnt see it.    Then,  if your launching projectiles upwards,
you will need to see a good deal above the field, so can see the full trajectory.
The screen will end up very small...  and very little playfield to mess with.

 In many ways, it would be more fun to change the tanks to humans
with hand-grenades, because then there would be no restriction on movements,
and the gameplay would be much faster.

[SGT]

Xiaou2,

On the surface, those programming challenges that you point out do not seem insurmountable.  It's his prerogative to try, correct?

[JKD The Lad]

What I'm looking to do is create a new game, not a remake. There will be inspiration drawn from other games, but the goal is to make a new experience, not a "classic experience" with better graphics. I really can't stand "modern" versions of classic games,... I'd rather play the originals in most cases.

If you want to make a truly original experience then you could always take advantage of a completely unexplored genera  :a horizontal platform shooter with 2 8-way sticks for controls!
having a dedicated 8-way joystick for fire would allow for a incredibly smooth and fluid gameplay! 

1st stick:                 up-jump,
upleft-rolling jump                     upright-rolling jump
                   left-run                 right-run
      downleft-crawl                  downright-crawl 
                            down-duck   


2st stick:                 up-shoot,
         upleft-shoot                     upright-shoot
                left-shoot                 right-shoot
      downleft-shoot                  downright- 
                            down-shoot     

There would of course be power ups as well!
such as the classic spread shoot(shoot in 3 different directions)
and learned skills gained later in the game that specifically take advantage of the 2nd joystick such as:
boost shot!
which would after you jumped up and shot downward propel you in the air allowing you to hover over the ground and  allow you to rain death and destruction on those enemies too slow or unable to return fire!

The game would start with the basic controls and as you progressed you would permanently gain skills that at first would give you a great advantage but then later on balance out
examples:
blue spider mines- basically tiny land mines with legs that jump out of the background and charge at you. they are too short for you to hit when you aim horizontally, you can crouch and shoot or just shoot diagonally down to get them, if your fast enough. but they come so fast that you need cat like reflexes to get into position fast enough so  the best option is to jump upward and make a 130 degree sweep or a roll fire(explained below) downward as they run under you. After a level laced with these guys you get midway the boost shot that allows you to glide over the terrain taking them down. the level would then end with a boss fight that requires good use of the boost to defeat like a boss that diggs underground and attacks from beneath you only coming up to the surface after enough hits for you to pummel before he recovers and diggs underground again 

later on though you come across red spider mines. The players natural reaction would be to fly over and shoot them from above! which will get him killed! the red spiders have a shrapnel mine at the core and the explosion sends bits of metal into the air that kills any player dumb enough to try to shoot them from above! 
fortunately the red spiders are much slower than there blue counter parts and can be shoot from a distance by ducking.
the other skills you could have the player learn though out the levels would be
1st ability to run backwards(shoot left while running right) help when enemies come from all sides. This could end with a boss that chases you across the terrain
2nd  roll fire (while jumping diagonally your sprite shoots in all 8 directions at once) help against hover bots that circle you quickly 5 times and then come in for the kill, boss fight could involve  a large machine that fires homing rockets at you that can be deflected back at him with a properly aimed shot.
3rd boost shot, see above
4th JET PACK! changes the left movement joystick to control flying! as the last level at first you get to fly around and rain hell and destruction on all the old enemies. halfway though the level you run off the side of the earth and go into space and things start to look and control allot like robotron with except with space ships as enemys  you eventually get to a big bad final boss that breaks apart as you attack it like the ones in smash Tv.
after that it breaks apart, happy ending music plays and credits come down.

If your interested in the Idea I could easy flesh it out and come up with more detailed boss fights , about 30 or more enemies, and much more like some sort of storyline to excite the player and other stuff.
Designing games comes easy to me and I was able to come up with this idea as I wrote it(30min)
now whether my Ideas are any good Is something I can't really know for sure. 
what do you guys think?
note all of the bosses mentioned could be beat with out using the 3 main learned skills.
I thought it would be cool to allow the player to jump over and play the game with out them. This could lead to alternative final boss fight(with out the booster) and a alternative ending as a reward.   
by the way, very cool artwork pongo!  I'm not so sure how well they play But I must say they look fantastic!

[Lilwolf]

Any current game in arcade ideas.

1) has to have good controls.  Especially in defense or dodging.  I love assaults quick dodge.  You could go for a shield/block move also.

2) online would be awesume.  But dual players on your box is where most of the best moments on an arcade machine come from.

Tank game ideas.  To be a bit different?

1)  Controllable missiles (they have them don't they?).  After shooting a missile, you can switch to 3rd person view and target it in.  During this time, you cant move and will be a target.  I can see this working with good dodging mechanism (which is a bit better then the aim) so you take a shot, you see the oncoming missile in 3rd person view and have to decide if yours is going to hit first or not...  If you do this, a good title could be "Hit, Miss or suicide" where you might give up the missile and start running... or assume your both going to go. 

2) lob style distancing.  Hold down the buttom to say how far it will go.  First few levels, you see a shadow for the distance... after that, your own your own.  So you aim left, right... get on target...  Then get your timing for distance.  There is a few games taht do this (one for placing a tetris style game... can't remmeber the name).  Anyway, adds a bit of skill to it.

3) multiple ships... with different speed/armor ect.  Fast shooter?  slow super tank?

[rovingmind]

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what your using to make it, but I'm making my latest game with Microsofts recently released Dark GDK which is a free addon to Visual Studio Express 2008.  I was surprised at how simple they made several commonly used 2D and 3D operations and so far I really like it.  It reminds me a lot of a much more powerful version of GLUT, except for course for being DirectX and not OpenGL.  Just thought I'd give you a heads up if you haven't taken a look at it yet.

Microsoft didnt release Dark GDK, They just bundled it with Visual Studio
The GameCreators released it.

http://gdk.thegamecreators.com/

[AtomSmasher]

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what your using to make it, but I'm making my latest game with Microsofts recently released Dark GDK which is a free addon to Visual Studio Express 2008.  I was surprised at how simple they made several commonly used 2D and 3D operations and so far I really like it.  It reminds me a lot of a much more powerful version of GLUT, except for course for being DirectX and not OpenGL.  Just thought I'd give you a heads up if you haven't taken a look at it yet.

Microsoft didnt release Dark GDK, They just bundled it with Visual Studio
The GameCreators released it.

http://gdk.thegamecreators.com/

True, although I'm sure Microsoft paid them a lot of money to create it and release it for free, especially since it was released pretty much the same time as VS 2008 and microsoft is marketing it to help push VS 2008  http://www.microsoft.com/express/samples/GameCreators/

[Pongo]

First release is ready! This is really more of a compatibility test, but I want people to try it out.

Currently you can move the 2 tanks around see how the camera will work. The fire button will make the tank recoil, but no shells yet. Collisions are working with tank to wall, but not between the tanks. Lighting and texture work still needs to be done, so things will look much better when that is done.

You can change to your resolution at startup, and the controls are mapped to MAME defaults. See the readme for more info.

Get it here!
*removed*

edit: added a screenshot. I'd like to know how this plays on older hardware also. Framerate is capped at 60fps, and will play slow on older machines. 16 bit screenmodes may help performance, but may introduce graphical z-buffer issues.

[Goz]

Looks really good. It looks like collisions aren't between the whole tank and the wall. For instance I can run into a wall and the barrell from the tank can go into the wall but the collision isn't detected until the track of the rest of the tank hits the wall.

[AtomSmasher]

First release is ready! This is really more of a compatibility test, but I want people to try it out.

Very cool.  Runs great on my machine.

[Xiaou2]

you should add a reverse accelerate button.   It became anti-intuitive without it.

[JoyMonkey]

Awesome work! 

I love how the caterpillar tracks move perfectly against the ground! 

[ahofle]

Looks like a great start!!  Runs great for me too!

[Pongo]

Sounds like good response so far!

I didn't put a frame counter in (will do for the next build) Does everyone feel it's running at a decent speed? This obviously only applies to those with older machines. I'm a bit curious to know how far down the CPU ladder you can go before it lags.

Controls. How do they feel? Does it turn too slow/fast? Do you like the way the barrel is raised/lowered, or would you like to see a different configuration? Adding reverse is very easy,... I took it out though when I moved the acceleration to a button from the sticks, but it's still there,... just not mapped in. Eventually, you will be able to configure your own keys if you want to set it up a bit different. I'll also try to make everything as cab-friendly as possible.

Does the dynamic camera make sense? hopefully it addresses the issue that Xiaou2 mentioned up a few posts ago. It shouldn't really matter if the shells go off the top of the screen a bit,... they'll still come down.

Any graphical errors? I'm aware of the barrel colliding with the wall issue.

[headkaze]

Fantastic! It ran great on my notebook (P4 3Ghz / ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 / 512 MB) at max res 1280 x 800 x 32.

I love the way the controls work and the dynamic camera works really great. I'm very impressed!

One suggestion, although it might not be a good one, is allowing the tank barrel full 180 degree rotation so if the enemy is chasing after you you can shoot directly behind you. I don't know if that would improve the gameplay though.

No graphical errors I could see and ran very solid Looks like it could be a really fun game!

[Xiaou2]

 With 2 people onscreen, they are both 2 close to the edges of the screen
when moving away from each other.  You basically cant see ahead far
enough to see where you are going.

 The camera would need to be adjusted to leave half screen for each player in
any direction.   Also, theres too much zooming.  Instead of realtime zoom at
every degree...  change so that it only zooms when the space change is more
dramatic.   IE: zoom in when tanks move more than 4" travel.   Too much
zooming will make peoples eyes go batty, and cause nausea.

 Im still not overly sold on the 3d aspect.   An option for Top view might be
a welcome option.  Options to turn off camera zoom may also be welcome
(no zoom = fully zoomed all the way out, and does not change)

 Tank should recoil backwards a bit after fire has been pressed.

[ahofle]

One suggestion, although it might not be a good one, is allowing the tank barrel full 180 degree rotation so if the enemy is chasing after you you can shoot directly behind you. I don't know if that would improve the gameplay though.

Haha I like that idea too.  Maybe have it as an option that can be toggled or something.

I just tried it on my old Athlon XP 2000+ with an ArcadeVGA2 AGP version (ATI 9250 I believe)  and it works flawlessly there too!  Nice that you aren't using anything too exotic in terms of graphics.  I give it the mediocre-arcade-cabinet-PC stamp of approval. 

I think you have a real winner here once you polish things up.  The turret angle adjustment is even better than I imagined. 

Tank should recoil backwards a bit after fire has been pressed.

It already does.

[RetroBorg]

Just gave it a go, I liked it. 

I agree with the suggestion about the 180 degree turret too.

I was really hanging out to shoot though.

Also looking forward to sound.

I'll being following this project closely.

[patrickl]

Oh that is seriously cool.

I think I would miss reverse on the tank.

I guess it would be more suitable with a double joystick setup, but then who has that on his cabinet and then the turret joystick would need a fire button too.

I always liked the Wii version of this game too (included in the Wii Play games). It has different types of tanks with different armament (shots, missiles, mines etc) and differences in strategy (shoot once vs shoot a lot, fixed position vs moving). In the Wii version it's double controller too. The nunchuk controls the base and the wiimote the gun.

[ahofle]

You know I played this a bit more with arcade controls and I think it would be better to have the joystick only for motion (and two buttons for turret up/down), preferably similar to how a 3D platformer like Super Mario Galaxy controls in that you point the joystick in the direction the tank goes (as opposed to left/right/forward).  Not sure how hard that would be to implement though (or even feasible for tanks).  I found the left and right confusing in the 3D environment especially when you are heading towards the bottom of the screen.  I also found myself inadvertently moving the turret up and down while trying to drive around.

[jfunk]

I love how the tanks have a bit of speed to them.  They don't feel slow and cumbersome to me.

I also love the dynamic view.  The only issue I had with it (on my widescreen monitor) was when I had both tanks in the bottom corners.  I couldn't see the one on the bottom right at all.

Would it be possible to make walls/obstacles slightly opaque and show the shadow of the tanks behind them?  That might make the obstructed views a bit easier to handle..?

Looking good so far!  I have no comments about the controls at this point, although I do wish there was a way to move around while shooting in a different direction.

Looking forward to more!!

[Pongo]

Just letting you know I'm reading the comments and taking different things into consideration. The next version will let you shoot, so I'm sure it will be a bit more entertaining than the current build.

Also, I will add the reverse control back in on the next build so the buttons will be forward,reverse, and fire. I think I will leave the turret front facing for a bit. Adding reverse back in will let you fire behind you, so I think that should work.

Anyways, I'm getting a serious amount of work dumped on me at the moment, and vinyl cutting in the evenings, so I'm not sure how much time I'll get in the next few days. Hopefully by next week I will have a new build to show, but that may slide a bit.

Next build features:
 -redo control code a bit,... I want to restructure it so things are easier down the road.
 -firing shells
 -reverse
 -tweaks to camera


to do at some point (but maybe not in the next build)
 -Come up with a name
 -Create title screen and selection menu
 -Add Sound FX
 -collisions between tanks
 -.ini system for keys and graphics resolution

[patrickl]

That's way to much side stuff.

[Pongo]

Looks like I have my reading material for the weekend!

from what I've skimmed through, it looks well thought out, but also way above the goals for this current game. My main rules with the current game deal with simplicity,... simple controls, simple graphics. Anyone can pick it up and play right away, and it has to be designed to run on a cabinet with just a few buttons. My CP has 6 buttons per player, but I'm trying to design this for 1 stick/3 button play.

Also, I need to keep this simple so that it will be finished. I need to have this completed within a fairly short time frame. (I'm hoping within a month or two, and remember I am the only developer on this,... Programming, sounds, graphics,...)

[SGT]

Pongo,

I like where you're going with this.  Keep up the good work. 

[Pongo]

  That's all I'm going to say about it. Take it as you will.

Did a bunch of grunt work today. It's the stuff I really hate doing, but needs to be done to make things work in the end. The ini system is all written now though, so it will be easy to work that in. Next up,... projectiles.

[polaris]

Pongo
i can offer no help but want to show support, i like the way this game is going. 

[Pongo]

Just letting me know you're playing it is support enough for me.   

I'm having WAY to much fun at the moment, and I can't help myself from making little "Blam!" noises whenever I fire. (I should really record myself doing it and put it in one of these early tests.

.ini stuff is almost completely in the game code now, and tonight I've got a basic particle system working. That will cover everything that sparks or smokes in the game eventually.

Ok,... bragging/total geekdom here,... but the really cool thing is that I wrote most of the particle code on my DS! (yes, THAT DS) I had some time to kill and no computer near me, so I started up a new .txt file on my M3 card and started typing. Took me a bit to make it right once I transfered the file to my PC, but I think I will be doing more of this in the future. I have very little free time, so I try to make the most of it when I can. (I really need a small laptop!)

[polaris]

Just letting me know you're playing it is support enough for me.  

umm
ive not downloaded it and the link is gone, just liking the ideas, and the look of it in particular.
when i do get it , how do i run it?

[Pongo]

oops. I pulled the link earlier.

Will send you a PM.

link will return when I get the next build ready.

[headkaze]

How about Panzer!?

[loadman]

How about Panzer!?

:-)

I like this whole concept.

I would love to see this game go online using the BYOAC forum login

Imagine if you had a "problem" with another forum member.

You can say.... "Let's take it outside................................. of this forum and sort it out with a game of Panzer (or whatever the name is)"

See Attached pic      Could be fun 

[rovingmind]

or how about

COMBAT 3.0

[polaris]

ok no surprises here, i cant get it to work.
using mame89, could that be the problem

[AtomSmasher]

or how about

COMBAT 3.0

COMBAT Evolved

I know it was the tag line to Halo, but it seems to work.

[SGT]

ok no surprises here, i cant get it to work.
using mame89, could that be the problem

You don't run it from Mame.  Its a stand alone program.  Just unzip it and then double-click BYOAC_Tanks_01.exe.

[polaris]

ok no surprises here, i cant get it to work.
using mame89, could that be the problem

You don't run it from Mame.  Its a stand alone program.  Just unzip it and then double-click BYOAC_Tanks_01.exe.

cheers, silly me, the read me mentioned mame controls and i assumed incorrectly.


ITS AWESOME!

[Pongo]

I like the Panzer mockup with the black/white split. Might be a start for the logo.

Last night I was trying to think of some names too:
Shellshock! (My current favorite)
Tank Blast (doesn't make a lot of sense, but my last few games have been named RC Blast, and Neon Blast)
Mini Tanks (Too generic)

I'm trying to avoid anything that's got huge trademark stuff on it (like Combat for example)


Oh, and network stuff isn't out for sure, but it will definitely be one of the last things I can get in here. (No promises,.. I haven't written any network code before) It would be pretty cool to play that way though, so I need to look into it.

[M37R01D]

Thats awesome, to bad I missed the 1st release, but keep up the great work!!

[Pongo]

Sorry about pulling the link.

The next release should be this week, and it will have quite a bit of new things in place so it will be worth the wait.

[polaris]

pongo
i cant imagine how much work this takes, please take anything i say as suggestions only.

i cant help but feel the joy should control forward and back, and have buttons for turret up,turret down and fire.
i did find it a bit tricky to control.

[headkaze]

I like ShellShock!

[Pongo]

i cant help but feel the joy should control forward and back, and have buttons for turret up,turret down and fire.
i did find it a bit tricky to control.

That's what I thought would work best at first too. It works really good with the keyboard, but once I tried it with the sticks I didn't like it very much.

The good news is that all the controls will be configurable, so you will easily be able to set it up that way if you wish. (This will be in place for the next build hopefully later this week)

Tons of progress today,... I managed to work on things while watching both the football games. Most of it is under-the-hood stuff, but it will really help out eventually.

headkaze: nah,... I'm going to do shellshock like the first panzer logo you did (with the black and white and the angles)

[unclet]

I think the name should be "Shell-Shocked" with the "dash(-)" and the "ed" at the end.

I will keep an eye on this thread .... game looks like fun ..... and I like "simple" fun.

[saint]

Bunch of un-necessary thread-drek removed. If you don't like the way this one is going please just don't participate. I'm looking forward to seeing the final product!

--- saint

[Pongo]

A big thank you. 

[unclet]

Few questions:

1) Will the playing field be flat all the time or we you being introducing hills and valleys for the tanks to roll over?  Possibly some spots of water or loose sand to slow the tank down when it goes through it?

2) Will the entire background scroll thus allowing for a wider playing area to be designed?

3) Will there be a game option to allow the tanks to be able to move out of the screen and come in the other side to surprise your enemies from behind (if you do not implement #2 above)?

[Pongo]

1. With the current engine, I will be keeping things flat.

2 and 3. I'll send you a PM with a link to the first demo. It'll make more sense.

[unclet]

Got it ..... thanks !

[unclet]

Ok, it works for me and I love how the tanks roll around.

One thing though ....I now see how the display zooms in and out as I get closer to the other tank.   This made me feel dizzy and I had to stop.    Perhaps it is just me, but my eyes are feeling weird and I could not do it anymore.   Same reason why I can not play 1st person shooters.   Halo, Doom, etc..  all get me feeling ill after a very short time.   Unless you make it so the entire board can be seen at once or allow the background to scroll without zooming in/out (perhaps an option to allow for this?) then I am afraid I will be unable to play this when it is done.  My head is still spinning as I type.   I need to go get a drink.

Of course you are not designing this for me, so go right ahead with your plans, but I thought I would mention it. 

[Pongo]

Of course you are not designing this for me, so go right ahead with your plans, but I thought I would mention it.

Actually, I *am* designing this for you, and everyone else that will potentially play it. If it helps, there will be a "fixed camera" option that will show the whole board all the time. This has been requested already, so it's on my list.

[saint]

Haven't played the demo, but I have the same problem as Unclet. I can't play or even watch someone play an FPS without getting nauseous in less than 10 seconds. Really a bummer

[unclet]

Actually, I *am* designing this for you, and everyone else that will potentially play it. If it helps, there will be a "fixed camera" option that will show the whole board all the time. This has been requested already, so it's on my list.

Well then, I will just watch this thread and see what comes of it .... thanks.

If it's too nauseating, then you're too old.

I just told my kids the other day, that when I was younger there were no such things as remotes of televisions .... you actually had to get up and change the channel manually .... yes, they think I am old as well   

[protokatie]

Small control option idea for you to add. Since you are going to have programmable controls, maybe allow for a simple 2 button version that allows one to hold down on accelerate while pushing the joy back to go backwards. I would imagine that this would be an easy add in option (maybe in the menu or the INI file) and would allow people who made bar-top or cocktail cabs to play it. (Last I checked most of those types of cabs had two buttons)

Hell maybe even have a set of 3 or 4 types of input (including the up/down turret buttons as well as two button mode) that can be selected based on cab type and or preference.

Just my 2 cents. Cant wait to get my hands on a beta of it...

EDIT:
Also, have you thought about a one player version? I know AI is a B + itch to do but I though up a few quick and dirty things that can be used for 1 player mode:

"I am mouse" mode would have the AI tank chases you (with an understanding that walls are in front of it, and wont wait until it hits a wall before turning)

"I am Cat" mode would would have you chase the AI tank around a circuit (with turn points that the AI tank takes randomly) In this mode if you get hit by the AI tank (bullet or contact) you die.

"Drat, we are entrenched!" mode, where both tanks are placed in a "random" location and you can only rotate and adjust turret angle...

Just a few more ideas.. Would be good to have some kind of 1 player version....

[rovingmind]

i know this isnt going to be a MAME application (or at least i'm assuming so) ...

Will this be command line? so it can be entered and exit back into Mala or somesuch?

[Pongo]

I'm not sure how this will work with a front-end. It is a simple .exe file, so maybe someone can answer better than I can. If there is something I need to do I will look into it.

Combining 2 controls like that is do-able, but will mess with the control code quite a bit. I think it may be easier to make a special version that does this, rather than an all-in-one version. This could be the sort of thing available on request when things are more finalized.

About the AI,... I have thought about it, and the code is being written to support it. The first game release (not test) will just be 2 player only, and from there I will be able to add more players, including AI players. Ideally, it will play 4 players, with the option of any of the tanks being AI controlled, so you could play against a friend and also have 2 CPU tanks.

[SGT]

i know this isnt going to be a MAME application (or at least i'm assuming so) ...

Will this be command line? so it can be entered and exit back into Mala or somesuch?

Mala and the vast majority of front-ends can handle standalone executables like this just fine.

[protokatie]

Pongo, cools. But still you havent PMed me with an EXE for me to play with...

I will like to help in the future, since this is a cool concept, but without a "crying smiley" I  cant cry at you for not sending me a pm (IE one with an EXE file ;P)

[Pongo]

PM sent.

I'm done for the night now,... progress report.

I've got the firing code working outside of the game, but I'm breaking something when I plug it in right now. I'm missing some transformation and the shell is going crazy (as am I) Hopefully it will make more sense after some sleep.

[RetroBorg]

Can you give this game an arcade feeling to it by including the following:

Make it so you have to insert coin(s) to play.

Top 10 high scores which you enter by controlling a crosshair around an alphabet and blasting the chosen letters, selecting just 3 initials, with standard time countdown of course.

Display the top score on the screen while playing.

Once you select the game from a frontend it goes straight into an attract mode that includes the following:

Starts with a title screen (something like headkaze's picture but with rotating tank).

Followed by a demo skirmish of the tanks ending with one of the tanks being destroyed.

Then goes to a high score list.

Then you would probably want to have a screen that says designed and programmed by Pongo etc.

And don't forget to add "Say no to drugs" screen.

Then looping back to start.

All the screens should have "Insert Coin(s)" flashing.

It would be good to have the game options adjustable by tab button like in mame, you could include the following:

Map your joystick and buttons.

Select camera mode (fixed or zoom).

Select cabaret or cocktail mode (so the scores can be displayed on both top and bottom of screen etc).

Select vertical or horizontal screen (some mame cabs have vertical screens and some have horizontal screens, it would be cool if this game was playable on both screen orientations).

Another option that would be cool would be an option to submit high score files to a web site and the ability to download a world top ten list which can be displayed in the game. The game would display two high score lists one that shows high scores for your machine and another for the world top ten.

Anyway just a few suggestions, keep up the hard work Pongo and I'm looking forward to the next demo.

Retro

[unclet]

Mala and the vast majority of front-ends can handle standalone executables like this just fine.

As long as the keyboard keys can be remapped accordingly and any "special" settings can be entered via the command line.

For example:   c:\myGames\ShellShocked.exe -fullscreen -frameRate60 -etc -etc

 
Also, it would be nice if ESC was used for exiting the game, although I think it exits like this already ...

[patrickl]

Yes, remappable controls would be a must have to make it playable on all the BYOAC cabinets with their different control panels.

[polaris]

The good news is that all the controls will be configurable, so you will easily be able to set it up that way if you wish. (This will be in place for the next build hopefully later this week)

angles)

[Pongo]

The config stuff will be similar to this,... an editable text file.

---screen resolution
screen_w=1024
screen_h=768
fullscreen=1

---Player 1 controls
P1_up=200
P1_down=208
P1_left=203
P1_right=205
P1_fire=57
P1_accel=29
P1_reverse=56

---Player 2 controls
P2_up=19
P2_down=33
P2_left=32
P2_right=34
P2_fire=35
P2_accel=30
P2_reverse=31

Those numbers refer to the keycodes used. I will supply another file that lists the keycodes. This will also eventually be something that can be set by using the tab key and pressing the appropriate button, so you will not need to look up the codes.

The game refresh rate is locked at 60fps, slow machines that cannot maintain 60fps will play the game a bit slow without skipping any frames. Requirements are quite low, so I don't know how old you can go before slowdown occurs.

I will try to go through all these suggestions soon and build up a list of what is in, what is out, what is hopeful,...etc.

[Pongo]

Quick update for anyone following this:

shells are now working. I found that I had flipped some x and z coordinates that were screwing things up. At this point I have hit the goals that I wanted for this next build, but I want to clean things up a bit more before sending it out. Right now I'm looking at a Friday or Monday release, depending on how much other stuff gets in the way. This release will be a full public release again,... and this time it should stick around until the next version is out.

This release will give you a much better idea of how things will play, since you will be able to shoot.

When I first got the shell code in and working, it felt a bit rigid, so I have made the shot strength increase as you move the barrel up. This seems to give you a better range of close to far shots, and keeps things simple. This, along with everything else, is subject to change. We'll see what everyone thinks of it in a few days.



 

[polaris]

top stuff looking forward to it.


further thoughts;
don't think ive seen mention of damage yet , is it gonna be energy bars or something?
are we looking to decide that?
could be the next thing to discuss here.

[Pongo]

To be honest, I'm not sure about that yet, so I guess it's to be decided.

It will depend a bit on how hard people find the firing and aiming to be.

A couple of possibilities.
1. Direct hit only,... one hit = kill
2. Direct hit,... 3 hits and you're out (Tank would show sparks or drive odd when damaged)
3. Blast Damage radius,... you would take damage to health based on distance from blast.
4. other?

[polaris]

someone mentioned ammo turning into mines .with a lower damage level when they hit the floor and with a power bar, it could be a matter of a tactical decision to drive through mines or not, taking the hit to get the chance to sneak in behind the opponent.
maybe a limit of bullets too, as you shoot number 11 the first mine then disappears.
 

[protokatie]

as you shoot number 11 the first mine then disappears

Or maybe as you shoot number 11, it makes the first mine blow up with a larger explosion than it normally would have, thus potentially hurting one of the players near the mine. Would even be cool if exploding mines could set off nearby mines in a cascade type of effect...

[rovingmind]

as you shoot number 11 the first mine then disappears

Or maybe as you shoot number 11, it makes the first mine blow up with a larger explosion than it normally would have, thus potentially hurting one of the players near the mine. Would even be cool if exploding mines could set off nearby mines in a cascade type of effect...

That can be a very effective trap,  like in the flash game "The Rooms"  especially since it can backfire on you

[Pongo]

Hmmm,... to mine or not to mine?

I'm a bit on the fence on this one. I originally thought of putting them in here, but now I'm not sure for several reasons. Please discuss.
1. Simplicity,... the game already uses 3 buttons. Adding another may limit some cabinets.
2. They may not be needed, depending on how the action is with the shells.
3. I could see the unexploded shells working, but currently there are a LOT of shells, so it couldn't be all of them.

Let's see what you think of the new release when it's available. It's really soon,... I just sent out a few private versions to make sure I haven't missed anything big.

Oh,... should I start a new thread with the next release? something with a more appropriate title?

[polaris]

you can change the name of this thread.

ok i had a go.
wicked , love the shooting animation. the action of the shooting is cool. increasing angle increasing distance, all good.

tanks are really slow compared to last version.

thoughts for the future development, we need an incentive for people to not just sit there shelling, a third party as it were.


 

[SGT]

Let's see what you think of the new release when it's available. It's really soon,... I just sent out a few private versions to make sure

If I don't get see a download link soon, I'm going to pout. 

[Pongo]

Well, since you were going to pout I decided to send you the link. 

Everyone else will have to wait though. I'll try to get it up for tomorrow.

Also, I looked at the code, and the tank speed should be the same as the first version. The camera was changed so that it moves a bit smoother, and it stays backed out a bit more. Also, the first test had the checker floor so you saw the movement more.

All of this is open to change, so if everyone thinks it needs to be sped up,... it will be.

[polaris]

hmm
could be an issue on my pc spose.
 just timed the tanks driving from one side to the other on my metronome

ver 1 20 clicks
ver 2 30 clicks

[Pongo]

Looks like you are right. I took a look through the older code. The speed number hasn't changed, but the drag number did. That determines how much the tank coasts after letting go of the button, and also affects top speed a bit.

Tank speed and turning speed are not values I want to put in the config, but was thinking about adding a handicapping system in. This would make one tank drive slower than the other to even things out. I could set up the maximum speed, and then use a handicapping number to slow down things.

[patrickl]

Handicapping sounds like a good idea. Would be nice to be able to choose the competence level of the AI opponents.

This sounds like a nice game for the kids too, but the really small ones (like my 4 year old) need everything super easy. Otherwise they just die all the time and get frustrated. Slowing the opponent down a lot should help.

Would make it more interesting in a father son match too 

Can't wait to try the next release. I've been playing Wii Play Tanks! on my Wii, but your game looks a lot cooler 

[protokatie]

thoughts for the future development, we need an incentive for people to not just sit there shelling, a third party as it were.

Got a simple idea, if the mine concept is out, a way to increase incentive to move around would be to have random colored squares that pop up that you have to drive to and over. You could have one color to make the opponent not be able to fire for 10 seconds (and therefore has to be defencive) and another that makes your weapon more powerful. Just these random tiles popping up would force a "race to get to it first" scenario, and prolly wouldnt be hard to implement in code.

[Pongo]

mines are not definitely out, but let's see how things play first. Also the limited button configuration may cause issues. My own CP has 6 buttons/player, but I'm trying to design this for 3.

Something I have thought about to make players move around, are airstrikes. If you sit still for a certain amount of time, an aircraft could fly over and drop a load on you.

Oh, and by the way I let my kids test this last night,... they played for an hour with no issues. One is 3 and the other is 5. The 3 year old didn't really know what was going on, but she had fun shooting in a circle. My 5 year old boy was really into it though!

[patrickl]

Oh, and by the way I let my kids test this last night,... they played for an hour with no issues. One is 3 and the other is 5. The 3 year old didn't really know what was going on, but she had fun shooting in a circle. My 5 year old boy was really into it though!

Ah great. My boy is 4 and he loves to play games, but many games are just a tad too difficult.

Here's hoping that this weekend there is a new release 

[protokatie]

Something I have thought about to make players move around, are airstrikes. If you sit still for a certain amount of time, an aircraft could fly over and drop a load on you.

Although a good idea, it seems too contrived to me, also it removes the idea that one could make a tactical move to stay put and let the other guy get the upgrade. (IE holding ground to see how the other is going to move toward the "colored" square). Plus I like the aspect of my idea that would cause a race that would basically make the opponents get into tight quarters (and thus have a major fire fight)

Basically: A colored square appears

your choices:

1. Race towards it and get it if other decides to hold ground

2. hold ground and observe the other and maybe put yourself into a better position as they race toward the upgrade

3. Both race towards it and end up in a close quarters for a mighty fire fight that involves quick reactions over planning (as the other aspect of the game would be stratagy and positioning and precision aiming)


Just my opinion, as I see randomly throwing stuff at you for not moving too contrived, and like the idea of an "aiming session" being broken up by a mad dash!

[Pongo]

Sounds reasonable.

I just finished adding in the static camera option, so Version .002 is now complete. I'm very happy with the way it's working right now, and I hope you guys enjoy playing it and offer feedback for the next release.

I also added some basic collisions to the shells tonight, so if you get hit your tank will spin around a bit and a blast of yellow particles shoots out. It's possible to shoot straight through a tank since the collision is only checked when it hits the ground, but it gets most of the "hits". This is obviously work in progress, but I wanted you to know when you were hitting the target for sure.

It's late now, and I need to finish a readme still, so it will be posted tomorrow. Last tease, I promise.

[Pongo]

Here it is,... version .02a
http://arcadecontrols.com/files/Games/ShellShock002a.zip

Check the Readme for info.

You can change the screen mode and keys used in data/config.ini
You can find the keycodes in the game by pressing tab. You will be able to change everything from the tab menu eventually, but for now it has to be done manually.

Thanks to Saint for the space to put this.

Have fun, leave feedback here.

[AtomSmasher]

Runs great on my machine.  Theres no one else around, so I can't really test the playability of the game, but I definately like what I see so far.

[youki]

Very Nice!   

It works very well on my machine too.

[polaris]

its looking great, the speed seems back up now (not got the metronome out yet  )
like the way the tanks spin on impact too.

i do seem to be getting a bit of lag but my pc is probably clogged up with ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, its random so it would make sense its my pc being stupid.

 

[SGT]

Runs excellent on my machine.  Good job Pongo! 

[unclet]

Runs good on my machine ..... except I still get dizzy due to the zooming    ..... but it works!

[fatfingers]

I also had some performance issues on my work machine -- but I also have performance issues running MAME and mspacman on that machine.   

Also, it seems that if you back yourself up against a wall and hit the fire button as fast as you possibly can eventually the firing degrades to a point that the shells go nowhere and explode on top of you and all sorts of screwy graphics ensue.  Not sure if that was the intended effect or not, but I thought it was rather odd.

Nice work!

[rovingmind]

its a force effect, the faster you fire the more it tilts the tank back, I say keep that feature, it makes it funner, and harder to do a decent bombard.

Runs ok on my machine,   1.4 ghz

[Pongo]

For those that think the camera moves too much, try the static camera. You can enable it by setting the dynamic_cam line to 0 in the config.ini

For those having performance issues,... what kind of spec machine? I haven't figured out how slow this can go yet, so we might be seeing some of that with this build. One problem might be the blast marks on the ground. I have them fade out over about 16 seconds now, and all that transparency may hurt older machines. This could be added as an option to either shorten that time, or remove them entirely if that is indeed the problem.


Fatfingers: It looks like if I hit the fire button really fast for a long period of time when backed against a wall I can get the tank to rotate forward much further than it should. This would be amplified by a slower machine,... it's really hard to do on my development machine. I'll call this a bug though, and fix it so the tank can only rotate a maximum amount.

Edit: DEFINITELY a bug! I added a delay in the code to simulate a slower machine, and it was really easy to see what was happening. The turret was rotating so far that you were shooting the ground under you, and that was causing your tank to get hit, which was causing it to spin around. Added to the "fix" list.

Also,... discovered that reverse is not remapping properly if you change the ini. I will post a patch for these when I can track this down.


 

[protokatie]

Pongo, cool! Looks like you will have a full game in no time! I also noticed the "shooting youself in the foot" thing as well, and I have a 2 ghz 64 bit CPU... (Then again I had a lot of stuff open at the time)

[fatfingers]

Edit: DEFINITELY a bug! I added a delay in the code to simulate a slower machine, and it was really easy to see what was happening. The turret was rotating so far that you were shooting the ground under you, and that was causing your tank to get hit, which was causing it to spin around. Added to the "fix" list.

 

[Pongo]

How fast are you guys firing!?!   You know you can take it a bit easier and plan your shots too?

I've got both of the issues resolved now. (the .ini reverse and the tank angle max) I was hoping to just zip up a patch here, but it's just over the filesize limit for a zip. If either of these issues are affecting you, send me a PM with your email address, and I can send you the update as an attachment. Otherwise, just wait for the next full release where these (and other) things will be taken care of.

Some questions I can think of...

Is this any fun? If not, what do you dislike?

How are the controls?
 - Speed of tanks
 - Speed of turning
 - Rate of fire
 - Speed of shots in air
 - How easy/hard to hit target?

Absolute direction vs. RC style
I had a co-worker try it out today, and he said he enjoyed it, but was really frustrated by the controls. He wanted to be able to push up/down/left/right to move in that direction, instead of the rotate and accelerate method I use now. Personally, I like the RC style controls, but I also have a lot of experience with RC cars, planes, and helis. Orientation is not a problem for me, but I can see how some people would get confused when the tank is moving towards them for example.

Do we need a limiter on firing speed? I originally thought it would be needed, but now I'm not sure. Repeatedly smashing the fire button doesn't really get you anywhere, and if you get against a wall it leaves you as an open target.

Camera Control.
 - What do you think of the dynamic cam?
 - does it get too close?

Gameplay
Would you like to see a match where you need to score a hit, resetting after each hit. (best of 3 or 5) Or would you rather have a health that declines slowly based on hits? (Even this could be done best of 3, like a fighting game)

That's all I can think of at the moment,... I'm sure there will be more later. 

[polaris]

one thing i think is fundamental to this being fun, is making it manic,
to me the way it looks and moves calls for gameplay that constantly has you shitting yourself with panic. no time to sit there and take a good aim if you get me. saying that, ive only played this 1 player so maybe player 2 adds that already.

ill try and answers some of those proper questions later too.

[rovingmind]

I'm just waiting for the AI now,  the only thing i didnt like, was the fact that with it all the way back, i couldn't see the entire playing field, so i couldnt effectivley lob shots with any aim at all at the opposing tank. 

This is definitely going in my 4way stick machine when i get it home, cleaned up, and put together.

is the start button going to be mapped the same as the mame 1 player start?

Really great game.    If i might be so bold, are you using the player fields as individual models?  I could whip up a couple of flat boundaried playing fields in blender if their ends up being a "Level maps" folder. 

I like this game. 

AI AI AI....  ( ignore this, i know about how hard an AI script is to write, way above my abilities)

[Havok]

Just grabbed this, and I love it so far! Works great on my test rig: Athlon XP 2000+ with ATI Radeon HD 2400, running 1680 x 1050. The only thing is you should make the enemy tank solid; I am able to drive right through it...

[RetroBorg]

Well done Pongo, it runs well on my machine.

My only criticism is the physics of the shooting.

If you have the turret as low as possible and shoot, the shell lands just in front of your own tank, raise the turret all the way up and it shoots heaps far in the air and lands much further away.

It would seem the moment you raise the turret the shell becomes more powerful.

I'm no physicist but it doesn't feel right, surely the shell should travel as far in the down position as it does in the most upright position or close to it. Obviously 45 degrees should be the furthest and appears to be in your game, no problems there.

Has anybody else noticed this or am way off with my physics theory?

Anyway everything else looks great so far, keep the good work up. 

[headkaze]

I'm a fan! 

It's much more fun now with shooting. The turret controls seem backwards to me though, forward goes backward back goes forward. Or am I just not used to the controls?

Also I think the cursor keys (joystick) should control accelleration/break/turn left/turn left right and the buttons to control turret and shooting. That way you use the joystick first to get into position, then buttons to aim the turrent and shoot. I suppose custom mappings would fix that anyway

Great work!

[RetroBorg]

I'm a fan! 

It's much more fun now with shooting. The turret controls seem backwards to me though, forward goes backward back goes forward. Or am I just not used to the controls?

Also I think the cursor keys (joystick) should control accelleration/break/turn left/turn left right and the buttons to control turret and shooting. That way you use the joystick first to get into position, then buttons to aim the turrent and shoot. I suppose custom mappings would fix that anyway

Great work!

I guess that's beauty of being able to remap the keys, you can set it up just how you like it.

[Jimbo]

Hey, runs great on my machine!  Nice work!

A couple of ideas:

- Regarding the Absolute direction vs. RC style - how about having both as an option, but defaulting to the RC style?

- How about adding a "power" bar for the shooting, similar to how the bazooka works in Worms (i.e. the longer you hold the "fire" button down, the more power the shot has).  If you want to get really fancy, in later levels you can add wind direction/strength factors to spice things up a bit.  This might make shooting a little harder, but give the player much more satisfaction when they get a direct hit, and put more of an emphasis on strategic play. To force the player to make certain shots you could raise some of the walls a little to narrow the angle the shot has to be fired at to get a direct hit.  Just an idea - it might take the game in a slightly different direction playability wise, but might be worth a try if its easy to implement.

 

[jfunk]

Another idea that could handicap a player..

Why not allow an 'easy shooting' mode with cross hairs on where the shell will land..?  I was definitely having issues figuring out where my shell was going to hit.  I'm guessing that'll come with practice, but allowing them to be turned on/off for individual players would give beginners a shot.  Plus, I just think of it like watching a sniper scope bearing down on you..  You know you gotta run, but it might just be too late 

Great so far, though!!  LOVE IT!

[fatfingers]

I have also noticed the strange physics while shooting and would like to see something fixed there.

I think the controls should be arrow keys for movement and other keys for cursor controls.

 

[rovingmind]

Am I the only one then that likes the funny shooting?  Since it shoots this way now, could it be a switch in the INI file if it gets changed?   

[polaris]

i like the funny shooting too

[rovingmind]

Ok, I feel like a Doof, the levels are already in their own folder.  Basic Google search answered my question.  Are you using Blitz itself? or some other program with an export script?

[Pongo]

Wow,... lots of responses.

Sounds like you are mostly enjoying it, which is a plus. Here are a few answers to some things I saw when I was reading through.


Tank collisions are not implemented yet, so you can drive straight through each other. The shells do not collide with the tank either, so it is possible to shoot straight through one and not hit it. Currently the "collision" that determines a hit is simply based on distance when the shell explodes. These will be updated in later builds.

The controls are fully mappable in the game now. If you hit Tab, you will get a box that will give you the numbers of your keys. For now you will need to write them down and then put those numbers into the config.ini file. Eventually you will be able to do this all from the Tab menu, and write the .ini out from in the game. NOTE: reverse is not remapping properly in build .02a. This has already been fixed for the next release. PM me for an updated build if this affects you and you don't want to wait.

The shell power is changed when you raise the barrel. I found it very difficult to hit different parts of the level with a fixed power. If I had a weak power, you could not get any distance, regardless of barrel position, and if the power is strong it is hard to hit anything close. This was the compromise I came up with. One thing that is open for change is the shooting method, and this could change to a method where you hold for more power instead. I will consider what it takes to do both, so you can toggle simple or advanced firing.

Crosshairs on the ground is another thing I have thought of implementing.

Rovingmind: Yes, I'm using blitz for this. I'm setting things up so that new levels can be added, but the format is changing a bit still. It should eventually be possible to add your own levels. more on this later, or PM me for more info.

[saint]

49 downloads so far.

[rovingmind]

Rovingmind: Yes, I'm using blitz for this. I'm setting things up so that new levels can be added, but the format is changing a bit still. It should eventually be possible to add your own levels. more on this later, or PM me for more info.

no need for the pm, i can wait, i dont have blitz at the moment.  once you settle your level formating i would like the info though. 

I really like this project

[Pongo]

You won't need Blitz to make the levels. I am using the Blitz format because it easily lets me store the things I need in the file.

From a mesh standpoint, I can also use the .3ds format, but then  I will need to change the way other things are done. Since this will be the easiest way to mod the game, it will probably be the format you will need to make your own levels.

Arena size will be important though,... if the arena is much larger it will be difficult to see the tanks when they are apart from each other.  I can post a .3ds file of the current arena size as a starting point.

Oh,... and to answer your other questions,... start button will be mapped same as MAME defaults,... can be changed like everything else in the ini. Also, you mentioned that you  could not see both tanks when they were at the opposite edges. This screenshot shows what you should be seeing,... is it different for you?

[rovingmind]

 the format doesnt matter to much to me, there is a maya exporter, deled 3d has one, there are enough options to work around that.  My screen cuts off the right 1/5 of the screen.  When one tank is all the way back against the left wall you cant see anything of the bottom right corner of the maze. 

I havnt played with to many options so i dont know if its my resolution setting or not.

As it plays, the easiest way to get away from an opponent is backwards.....  point the barrel the opposite way you want to go and fire shells as fast as possible.  You might want to limit how far back it rolls after a shot, maybe have it roll back, then roll back forward, like a recoil.  Might not have to have it roll as far back forward to keep it a noticeable force reaction.  As it is the tank moves faster that way than it does driving.

[unclet]

Well, I just tried your latest version on my "home" computer (previously tried it on my work computer only) and when I double-click the EXE file I get the following error which pops up (see pic).

I was trying to run the game from a directory in the "G:" drive ... see the error for the path.  I tried to run the EXE from my "C:" drive instead and when I do this then a black window pops up (like the game is going to start) but then just disappears., although no pop-up error window is seen when I tried it from the "C:" drive.  The pop-up error window is only seen when running from the "G:" drive.

Any ideas?  Possibly I have things installed on my home computer which might be inteferring  with your program (ie: Visual Basic 6.0, Microsoft Visual C++ package, etc...)

[Space Fractal]

I tried this game. I really like the name giving for this game type and seen to works very well.

I wish if I could set the shooting range, since It seen shooting a bit to short? This could been definable by the user <- Never mind.

Look like it should been able to limit the number of shoots simulate on the screen (maybe 1 or 2)?

Which type of music would you like to hear in that tank game?

Otherwice I just wait when I can release my little game (based on circus or clowns as called on some ports) here when the artist a day do finish the graphics (hence I have never annonced yet).

[Pongo]

Well that's not very good at all!

I have absolutely no idea what could be causing that.  It sounds like the graphics are not initializing, but you should get a different error if that happens. Let's start with these questions:

What operating system?
What version of Direct X?
Did the early version work on that machine?
Have you moved any files/subfolders around? Moving the whole game folder should be fine.
Have you changed the .ini? (specifically the screen resolution) Try setting the screen mode to something like 640x480, and not fullscreen.

I can't think of anything else at the moment. I can play it off any of my drives, including my thumb drive, which is F:

[unclet]

What operating system?

WinXP SP2

What version of Direct X?

DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

Did the early version work on that machine?

This is the only version I have tried on this machine is the "ShellShock002a.zip"   I do not have an earlier version to try either.

Have you moved any files/subfolders around? Moving the whole game folder should be fine.

Nope ... simply unZIP'd the "ShellShock002a.zip" file and tried running the EXE

Have you changed the .ini? (specifically the screen resolution)

I have not changed the INI file at all and got the error.   Basically, just unZIP'd the file and tried running the EXE

Try setting the screen mode to something like 640x480, and not fullscreen.

I tried it .... same pop-up error window was seen   

[polaris]

i'll send a copy of ver 1 to your email address

[unclet]

Nope, does not work for me on my home computer.

When I start it it asks me whether I want Windowed Mode.   When I answer "Y" then the screen goes to black (like it isready to start the game), but then the window disappears .... thats it.   If I answer "N" and then answer the few questions which are asked, then the same thing happens ..... window goes black and disappears.

 


I tried both versions on my kid's computer (WinXP w/SP2, Pentium4(3.4Ghz), 1.5Gig RAM, DirectX 9.0c) and they work, but moving the tanks around is quite slow.

[Space Fractal]

Did you updated your graphics drivers on your home machine? For mee, it seen to been old graphics drivers and maybe a old direct9c version (there are many D9c versions out here, so make sure you install them all throuch www.microsoft.com/directX)?

The game works perfectly here (on a external D:\ drive) with a simular machine like your kids have, but its only when there are many particles on the screen, it can been a little bit slow.

That why I want some limits the number of shots on the screen at once. But it was nothing to distract the gameplay at all (etc I also played fine with 1280x1024 resoulution).

I look future when there is more develpement on this game.

[Pongo]

Since you are running XP SP2 I'm assuming it's not an ancient machine. That rules out issues with really old video cards. This game is using DX 7, so an older version of DX 9 should not be an issue.

I've done some searches in a development forum, and that error seems to be coming up in two situations,...

The first is a conflict with the DirectX SDK or using the Debug version of the DX runtime.  Installing Visual Basic, Visual C++, and/or The Direct X SDK seems to cause this, and the solution seems to be installing the retail version of direct X again.

The other situation is using an Intel 82915G/82910GL Express Chipset. Lots of Dells apparently have this chipset, and solution seems to be updated drivers.

I hope that your issue is one of these,... and sorry I do not have a real solution to the problem. I've never seen anything like it myself.

 

[unclet]

No worries ..... my machine has Visual Basic 6.0, the latest directX redistributable and the latest VisualC++ runtimes as well.   Perhaps these are causing troubles.   Although I do not have any of this on any of my arcade machines so I can play your game once completed.

I actually updated my machine with the latest directX redistributable and the latest VisualC++ runtimes so I could try out the NullDC emulator.  Did anyone else install these two things to try NullDC?  If so, then does this ShellShock demo work for you or not?

Thanks for the information.

[Pongo]

I guess it's good news that we know what the issue is. Sorry I can't fix that, since it seems to be an issue with the compiler itself. I will get the latest update for my compiler and see if that fixes anything for you. *hoping*

Progress report.

I've finished the main controls code completely now. This is not a visible change to you the end user, but it's huge for me because I can now create a new tank with a single line of code, specifying a controller (1-4) or 0 for AI.

Yup,... I've got 4 tanks up and running now. The 3rd and 4th tanks are running with the AI code. At this point there is a whole lot of "A" and not much "I", so they spaz around randomly running into things. It's kinda what my 3 year old plays like, so it's a fair fight!   NOTE: AI stuff is going to be put in much later, so this is really just the framework I need for later. Don't get too excited about this yet.

I've also worked out what I need to hold the button for shot power. I hope to get that code in tomorrow if possible.



 

[rovingmind]

the size of that second screen shot is the view mine shows fully zoomed out.  The multiple tanks in that looks fun.

[Pongo]

I'll be re-doing the camera code eventually, so I hope that fixes the problem for you. Is anyone else having that same problem? What resolution are you running? It would really help if I could get it to happen so I can fix it.

Progress report: I was out all day yesterday, and tonight my wife was hogging the computer until a bit ago, so not much new. I'm planning on getting the new 4 player inputs in the config, and then releasing that in a new version that fixes the few small things that came up with the last build, notably the tank body rotation thing, and the .ini file.


I've been looking around, and haven't seen anything for this,... is there a list of the default MAME mappings somewhere? I need the default inputs for P3 and P4 (up/down/left/right and buttons 1/2/3) EDIT: using the mappings for the IPAC 4,... assuming those are correct?

[polaris]

is this what you need

[Havok]

So where's the latest version? I hope you're not letting Real Life(tm) interfere with this most important task!

 

[briktop11b]

    Ive been following this for a while and i love what this game has become. I really like the way the firing physics are because like you said i dont think it would work well if it was accurate, it would be tuff to lobb, or hard to shoot close. I didnt notice it but please put the ability to insert coins on this because i have plans to build a cab with this game as the theme and i would love to have the ability to use tokens ( i think it would be a huge hit on poker night). Some type of high score, maybe winning streaks also , and maybe kills in a row or something like that. Thanks. Ill be checking in on this. Great work.

[Pongo]

Glad to hear some of you are still wanting more!

This week has been a bit brutal for me. Too many things getting in the way of my programming time. I was hoping to put in the new shooting code for the next release, but I'm not sure I'll get that in now.

I'll try to get a new release out this week still,... probably Friday again. there is a bunch of new stuff I'd like to get out there to you all.

Things that will be in for sure. (already in and working)
up to 4 players can play
You can set the other tanks to use AI. (They are really dumb at this point, but at least you can shoot at a moving target if you don't have a friend to play against)
Level has been tweaked a bit to make it larger front to back
Some shot and explosion sounds added
Shots now collide with walls.

[Minwah]

I only just saw this thread, looks really great so far! 

[rovingmind]

Yay at moving targets

[Pongo]

Here is  the latest version. See the Readme for more info. (Updated link: Thanks Saint)

http://arcadecontrols.com/files/Games/ShellShock.002C.zip


A few notes to help you out a bit:
- You can change the number of players (up to 4) in the data/config.ini file The minimum allowed is 2
- Each player has an ID number associated with it. You can use this to put any tank on a different control (1-4)
- If you set the ID to 0, that tank will use a very basic AI. They are blind and just move/fire randomly at this point.

If you have any questions/trouble, please post here and I will try to help.

Enjoy!

[Space Fractal]

I tested your game, and it can been turn into a great little game with fine simple and clear graphics.

I have doe some suggestions, you might look to the next version:

- more than 4 tanks on the screen, like that that screenshot I saw. Rest only controlled by AI (even they dump).
- Limit the number the shots on the screen, definable in the config.uni.
- Even they might move a bit dump, it still harder to hit one, since they doesn't stood still now  .
- Mightbee define a limit in the particles used in the explosions for slowere machines in config.ini.

[AE35]

Shellshock looks stunning! Simply stunning.

However, for me and the wife, it is very hard to control. So it probably wont be for us.

Will it be made with 'insert coins' etc??

Very nice work!!!

[rovingmind]

i like the improvements, my screen problem was my resolution.  Because of my monitor size i have mine set to 1024 by 768 by default.

[saint]

http://arcadecontrols.com/files/Games/ShellShock.002C.zip if you want to be kind to his bandwidth:)

[Space Fractal]

why not give him some fpt acount and a little webplace for his improvment of his cool little game?

[Pongo]

why not give him some fpt acount and a little webplace for his improvment of his cool little game?

It's already been offered,... I'm just too busy to put anything together at the moment. As things get further along I may try to make a proper page for it, but for now it's just some quick builds for you to play with.

Releases will probably start slowing down at some point. (Maybe already) as I start adding in some menu and start screen things, but the latest release will always be posted here in the first post.

This latest build was made with a newer version of the compiler, so I would like to know if the issue unclet was having is still there. Nothing I can do about that, but I'm hoping that maybe something changed there.

Those with screen zooming issues (clipping the sides off),.... still having the same trouble? The camera code in there is new, but still not what I want. I have a new method that I hope will be smoother and work for all resolutions.


Anyways, any opinions on the new build? Is anyone still playing? like/hate the sounds? 4 player good?

[rovingmind]

Those with screen zooming issues (clipping the sides off),.... still having the same trouble? The camera code in there is new, but still not what I want. I have a new method that I hope will be smoother and work for all resolutions.

The screen cutting off thing was do to running at a resolution lower than the game is set at in the INI file.  People are going to have to make sure their resolution is the same or higher than the game, unless you have the option of putting  various resolutions in it.

[unclet]

I will check to see if this is still a problem on my home computer when I get home later tonight.

Works good on my work computer.  I turned on 4-player and see how the AI tanks work ... pretty cool.   I also tested the static background (ie: non-moving background).  This is the mode which works best for me.

One suggestion would be ...... since the arrow keys are usually used in PC games for moving U/D/L/R directions, then shouldn't these arrow keys be used to control player1's directional movement by default instead of using the arrow keys as turret control.   Just a thought.

[Pongo]

Different resolutions will have slightly different aspect ratios, so I'll need to consider those when I re-do the camera code.  I need to come up with a better method than I am currently using to make this all work for everybody.

As for the other method of control (I'll call it absolute vs. RC),  It's come up before, so I've been thinking about it. I personally like the RC method of control, so I'll be leaving it as the default, but I'm looking at making an absolute version as well, so those that want that can use it. (Up/down/left/right will move that respective direction) With that method you won't be able to sit in one place and turn, but hopefully it helps those that have trouble with the RC method.

Some of the things I need to sort out are how the absolute controls work,... for example:
- If you are facing left and input right,... I don't want the tank to instantly click a 180 turn for you. (Giving an advantage over the RC style)
- If the tank turns the full 180 before moving, that may put those players at a disadvantage.

Somewhere I will need to find a middle ground that works here.

One more thing,... if you have a spinner or trakball you can try mode 5 for the controller ID. That's a little goofy, so I didn't mention it before. The x axis controls turning, and the other controls are the same as ID 1

[unclet]

Just tested it on my home computer and it still crashes when it is started.  Same problem as before.  Oh well.   Not a big deal since this game would be placed on my arcade cabinet computer when it is done.

[Pongo]

Well that sucks. I was hoping it might do the trick.

At least we know what is causing it.


Oh, and as long as I'm thinking about it, I wanted to answer that yes, the game will use all "arcade style" features. This means that there will be an option to Insert coins or free play, and pressing P1 to start,...etc.

The main menu will be simple, such as something you might see on an arcade machine. Menus will be navigated with the stick and buttons (No PC dropdown menu or anything like that.) The only area where I may break this is in the config. I figure you can set things up with a mouse and full keyboard since that will only need to be done once.

[Minwah]

I like just about all of this...really nice and smooth and the controls, sounds etc. are very good.  The only thing which didn't feel quite right to me was that I kept pressing down to raise the gun/up to lower it (the opposite of how it works) - obviously this is a very minor point and probably one that is a matter of taste...maybe a y-axis reverse option could be included down the line (or maybe it is just me ).

[Pongo]

You can already do that.

Take a look at the data/config.ini file. All you have to do is swap the numbers for up/down. All the controls can be remapped this way. If you need to find out what numbers to use, press tab in the game. This will  let you find the keycodes. Eventually this will all be put together, but for now you have to do it manually.

[Minwah]

 

Cool

My only other concern is that it might not look so nice on my low res screen

[headkaze]

I like just about all of this...really nice and smooth and the controls, sounds etc. are very good.  The only thing which didn't feel quite right to me was that I kept pressing down to raise the gun/up to lower it (the opposite of how it works) - obviously this is a very minor point and probably one that is a matter of taste...maybe a y-axis reverse option could be included down the line (or maybe it is just me ).

Nope your not the only one, I was doing the same thing. I think the default should be reversed but still you can change them using config.ini.

[fatfingers]

I like just about all of this...really nice and smooth and the controls, sounds etc. are very good.  The only thing which didn't feel quite right to me was that I kept pressing down to raise the gun/up to lower it (the opposite of how it works) - obviously this is a very minor point and probably one that is a matter of taste...maybe a y-axis reverse option could be included down the line (or maybe it is just me ).

Nope your not the only one, I was doing the same thing. I think the default should be reversed but still you can change them using config.ini.

agreed

[Pongo]

That's 3 votes for and none against, so I'll make that the default for the next version. Either way, it can always be changed in the config.ini.

[Space Fractal]

It could been a user options in the main menu (when added), since this is not a admin option, but more a user option....

[ErikRuud]

Pongo,

I love "ShellShock"!

It just needs scoring.  I also need gamepad controls in order to support 4 players, but I can probably add that in using joytokey or AutoIt.

Keep up the good work!

1)  Controllable missiles (they have them don't they?).  After shooting a missile, you can switch to 3rd person view and target it in.  During this time, you cant move and will be a target.  I can see this working with good dodging mechanism (which is a bit better then the aim) so you take a shot, you see the oncoming missile in 3rd person view and have to decide if yours is going to hit first or not...  If you do this, a good title could be "Hit, Miss or suicide" where you might give up the missile and start running... or assume your both going to go. 

That idea is cool, it reminds me of the Odyssey2 game "Armored Encounter" which I always thought was better than "Combat".   Considering the game play of "ShellShock" I think that guided projectiles might work better if they used a similar control method.  In "Armored Encounter" the projectiles were controlled by turnning your tank after the shot was fired.  This gave you the ability to shoot around corners but did not give pinpoint accuracy.

[jfunk]

Any news?  Can't wait for the next version!!

[Ummon]

This is neat. It certainly needs a decent CPU and GPU, though.

[Pongo]

Still alive and kicking here. Progress has been slowed a bit due to lack of time lately, but I hope to get progress made soon.

The next release may take a bit longer, but will be a major step forward, adding the intro screen and proper game flow. (Lives/health,...) 

I can't detail things too much right now, so I'll finish this later,... just wanted to pop in quick

EDIT: ok,... more time to type now.

At this point I'm happy with the way things are working, and I'm not hearing much, so I'm going to assume things are good so far. (Or no one is playing ) Anyways,... I'm at a point now where I need to put the full game framework around everything, so there will be an intro/attract screen, entering credits,...playing the game with a winner decided, and back to the attract mode. After that, it should be straightforward to detail a few more things out until the game is ready to be considered final.

The major things I still have to do at this point are improving the graphics (mostly texture work) and implementing the main flow mentioned above.

Because of all this, and to better reflect where the progress is, the next version will see a big change in version numbers,... something like .5,...followed by .6,.7,... up until a final release of 1.0

And to answer to Ummon's comment above,... I think this should be able to run on pretty old hardware. Right now the Scorch marks and particles are eating up a lot of processor, but there will be an option to turn those off, which should help older systems.

[Space Fractal]

.. or just half some of particles on the old machines.... Like to have a option in which level of graphics detail you want to use.

[protokatie]

. or just half some of particles on the old machines.... Like to have a option in which level of graphics detail you want to use.

Yeah, I second that idea. Have a rating from like 0 to 10 for how much detail the game uses... IE


GFX detail setting:

0: Nothing special, no particles or blast damage

up to 5: Increasing number of particles, blast damage, but it doesnt fade out, it just dissapears after 2 or 3 shots are fired

5: Medium particles, with quickly fading out blast damage

10: Full # of particles, with very slowely fading blast damage.

[protokatie]

* protokatie enters the room...

And everyone apparently dies due to it...


Anyways: Any new updates coming along?

[Pongo]

I wish I could say that a new release is right around the corner,...The last few weeks have been very difficult to get programming time in. Working long 12 hour days at the computer is making me want to stay away from the screen at night.

 Things have gone quiet here, but I figure that's mostly because the basic play is in place and now everyone is just waiting for me to get the next step out. It's pretty frustrating because I know I only need a few clean hours of computer time to make progress, and it just isn't happening right now.

Anyways, enough complaining... I have been playing a bit with the particle system a bit and changed the particles to more soft smoke fx. I really don't like it as much though, so I ended up putting the old particles back for now. I've also been doing a bit of graphic work when I get a chance, but the programming side is a bit behind where I want to be.

Sorry I can't give any more news,...I'm still on this, just at a really slow point.

The next release will be .5, and I'll be sure to change the thread title to announce when it is ready.

Thanks for your continued interest,... it keeps me going!

[Ummon]

Definitely, take some time. It seems you've been at a break-neck pace since the beginning.

[jfunk]

No hurry, just wanna bump this to the front page to keep it in mind 

[Pongo]

Just wanted to offer this update.

My work schedule has gotten extremely crazy, and will continue this way until early April. It is unlikely that I will be able to get any progress made until then. I have considered having a friend finish some of the code segments for me, but I'm really trying to do this on my own.

Anyways, I just wanted to get the word out that this has not been abandoned, but it is definitely on hold for a bit. Look for the next release  to be in April when my schedule frees up again.

Sorry for those that are waiting, unfortunately it's the nature of my work that sometimes it gets like this.

[rovingmind]

I understand that.
As one of the "April" updates could i suggest a change to the map model file to a .3ds or .lwo as was discussed as a possibility, that way anybody could use Blender3D (opensourece) to create user maps.  I could help out by makeing the diffent fighting ranges from COMBAT!!! ( i think that title should have three)

I didnt find a usable -free- way of getting an accurate map crossed over.

Of course.... if it used .blend files........... (j/k)

[protokatie]

* protokatie pokes head in to see what's up, as well as to bump the thread.

* protokatie looks left

* protokatie looks right

* protokatie smiles nervously.

[Pongo]

nope,... still nothing new.  I'm still up to my neck in serious work stuff.

This work project will be ending at the end of the month/early April though, and I plan on jumping straight back into Shellshock as soon as I can.

Rovingmind: I'll make up a level template for you. The level loader will accept .3ds files already.

[rovingmind]

nope,... still nothing new.  I'm still up to my neck in serious work stuff.

This work project will be ending at the end of the month/early April though, and I plan on jumping straight back into Shellshock as soon as I can.

Rovingmind: I'll make up a level template for you. The level loader will accept .3ds files already.

That time frame works out great, that should be about the time i get my new harddrives installed and have everything up and running again.  I can export .3ds files fine as long as i dont have to export animation sequences, which works out well for level maps.

[Pongo]

Great news!

My work project is now complete so I will be able to continue work on ShellShock.

First I need to catch up on some vinyl orders, but I expect to be working on the next release very soon. Hopefully I haven't lost too many of you by taking a month off.

Laters!

[jfunk]

Woohoo! 

[Wade]

This is so sweet, and I have an empty cabinet that I've love to put this game into and make it dedicated!

I'd rather the camera not follow the tank though.  I think it'd be better, more classic-like, simpler, if the camera always took the same angle/position relative to the field.  The same position as the first pic at the start of the thread, or perhaps slightly higher up.

Also, can the projectiles be set so they bounce through the field until they travel XX distance?  That would be nice.  I also noticed they can drive through each other, instead of crashing/bouncing.

Great job!!!  Glad to see some sweet, free cabinet-ready games being produced!

Wade

[Pongo]

Thanks for the comments

You can already make the camera static. Go to the data/config.ini file and change dynamic camera to 0

And yes,... no collisions on the tanks with each other yet.

[blixtstrejk]

I didn't think this would end up being my first post on the BYOAC forums (since I'm in the process of designing my first cab) but I just got through playing this for about half an hour with my girlfriend, who doesn't really play video games much, and it was a blast so I thought I should post some encouraging words!

Keep the game simple. Keep it hectic and fast paced. Keep it kind of "cute". Those are strong points of this game! One of the comments that came out of my girlfriend's mouth was "It's like bumper cars!" and I thought that was definitely appropriate. We had it set on 2 players and 2 AI. We enjoyed tag-teaming the AIs and making them spin and spin and spin...

Here are some suggestions for further development, if you wish to hear them:

1) She found the black tank to be too hard to see against the background. I had to switch her controls to the yellow tank so she could play.
2) Have you considered making the walls semi-transparent, or perhaps translucent, so that a player can still keep orientation on his tank?
3) As a possible scoring option, rather than being an elimination where you have a limited number of lives, you can earn points for hits and play for a timed round. Also, one way to encourage different types of shots would be to give a score multiplier based on the angle of your gun. The higher your gun angle (and hence, the farther the shot and the harder to aim), the more points per hit you can get.
4) Another possibility that would be interesting is every few timed rounds, you could have a "race" round where the map is a track, and the first one through the track or maze gets bonus points... shooting scores and timer would still apply. Or you could have them keep going around and around until the regular timer runs out, and each time you pass the "finish line" you earn bonus points based on your ranking. This would mean that camping the finish line and sniping people would be a valid, and hilarious, tactic.
5) Different wall heights, so you would have to lob shots. Differing wall heights within a given map would be interesting too.
6) A "fortress" map where some players are inside "turrets" and some are in the "field". Imagine starting positions 1 and 2, with their wall bracket extended into an enclosing square, and then elevated above the playing field. Field players would have to lob shots and turret players could drop shots and would have the advantage of elevation, but would also be limited in their ability to escape shots.
7) I like the way the angle controls the power currently, but what about a "power-up" shot where if you hold your fire button for, say, a full two-count, you would shoot a shot (same speed and power as a regular shot) but it would have a blast radius, like a firebomb?
After "inserting coin" the player could choose from three different tank types (with slightly, though equally cute, body styles)... a "standard" which is the current tank, whose power-up shot is a firebomb; a "heavy" which moves slower but which tilts less with acceleration and spins less upon being hit, whose power-up shot is a "concussion" shot (greatly slows all tanks in the blast radius for a period of time); or a "scout" tank, which is faster but spins longer on getting hit, that has a "halon blast" shot that prevents tanks from firing until leaving the blast radius which lasts for a certain amount of time

There's just so many things you could do with this game! Pretty cool, I hope my ramblings have given some inspiration. I look forward to seeing this project continue... I will -definitely- be adding this to my cab when I build it... it has a ton of "party game" potential!

[rovingmind]

I like the turret idea if there were enough players but how would it defend and measure lives? 

I just recieved a free computer with a 2.6 ghz proc.  My modeling software is getting installed on it instead.  Yayy for free stuff and family members.

[DaOld Man]

I just recieved a free computer with a 2.6 ghz proc......  Yayy for free stuff and family members.

Tell your family that DaOld Man is now available for adoption..
 

[DaOld Man]

Great work pongo!
I just downloaded the game and gave it a try.
Kinda reminds me of the the old qbasic gorillas game, the way you have to figure out the angle to shoot.
I like it, I know it is a WIP, but the AI seems awfully UI (Un intelligent).
But with me, thats probably a good thing.
Cant wait to see the finished version.
 

[rovingmind]

I just recieved a free computer with a 2.6 ghz proc......  Yayy for free stuff and family members.

Tell your family that DaOld Man is now available for adoption..
 

heh heh, sisters ex was trying to throw it out, she grabbed it just to get her kids pictures off it.  I volunteered to do the job, and i get to keep it.he also left his Halo disc in the drive.  I've been thouroghly enjoying it.  I just need to get another ram stick for it, all it has is a 256 mb one.  I have dibs on any free puter bits, so even if you get adopted in they are still all MINE MINE MINE>   mwah hah hah hah

[Pongo]

blixtstrejk, some good ideas in there. I'm definitely keeping things simple for this one though.

Different wall heights can already be done easily, and I was also thinking of having a level where each tank is sitting in a small box, so you basically are unable to move. Tank colors will be adjustable in the .ini if they are not already,... can't remember if that is in yet or not. I also have a method for when you go behind a wall, so you will see a silhouette.

And yea, I said before the AI is very "A" at the moment. They will be smarter eventually, but I don't know how much. (This is really meant to be played against another person) Right now all the movement/firing is random,...eventually they will be aware of other tank positions and turn to shoot more accurately. The amazing thing is even with them just randomly shooting they manage to hit me every once in a while.

[Pongo]

Finally back on this. It feels like it has been much longer, but it feels great to be back. I've been working mostly on the artwork side of things right now, and will be putting together a large checklist of items I need to go through.

Some new stuff,...Today I was playing around with the camera code a bit and as a quick test set up a camera behind a tank so I could follow it around. I've said before I didn't want to do this particular view, but it was a blast to play from that angle, so I think it will make it on to the checklist as an optional view. (Split screen for 2 player)

It's still going to be a while before an updated version appears, but it will be a major update when it happens.

Thanks for waiting all this time. I hope it will be worth the wait.

[Yarb]

Pongo,

I am curious what language you are using for this project?

Yarb

[jfunk]

Any updates? 

[Pongo]

Sorry for the lack of updates and responses.

This is still being worked on, although the pace has slowed way down due to work/family/life stuff that has been getting in the way a lot.

I've spent some time recently finishing up a design document on the game, so there is a "map" to follow towards the goal of completion. Originally this was going to be a project that I did everything on, but I'm getting to a point where I'm ready to bring in another programmer that I know. That would allow me to focus on the artwork more instead of trying to do everything when I haven't been able to find the time.

[rovingmind]

I was away from the forum for a while, and i know you said progress was slowing down. so.... any progress? 

[protokatie]

**BUMP**
Been wondering about this for awhile. Is it possible to release the source into PD? Seems like it was a good project and shouldn't be abandoned.

[Pongo]

Sent you a PM, but thought I would respond here also.

Current status is dusty,... it's been sitting on the shelf for a good while now. I keep thinking of pulling it down, but real life keeps getting in the way.

I originally had to stop work when a large project came through at work,... it devoured all of my spare time. When that finished I had lost the momentum I had, and struggled to keep going,... then I had a new baby at the house and that has changed things quite a bit too. (#3, so I thought it would be easier, but wow, was I wrong!)

Anyways, I am currently working on another of those big projects at work (we get this several times a year.) but when that is over I really want to get back programming on something. I have 2 projects that I am looking at,... this one, and another one that uses a physics engine I have written. The new one is being planned as a demolition derby game,... nothing fancy, no big explosions, just a bunch of hitting each other into submission, like a real derby. I won't integrate the new physics into ShellShock, because the game is too far along to want to add that in, but it is an option if I ever rebuild ShellShock from the ground up.

The other issue that has come up is the name. It was brought to my attention that Shellshock has already been taken, so I'll need to rethink that as well.

If you want to see ShellShock continue, please let me know here, or through PM,... if I know there is interest, it is much more likely to be dusted off at some point.

As for opening up the code, I'm not sure how much use it would be due to the language it's written in. I'm Definitely open to working with someone on it though. I've even considered using XNA and putting it up on the 360 community games site.

[SGT]

Pongo,

I have followed your progress from the beginning.  I think it has great potential.  Please don't let it go the way of vaporware!

[kizer]

BYOAC

Bring
Your
Own
Assorited
Cannons

I think I spelt Assorited wrong, but you get the idea. =)

[rovingmind]

l got busy myself and havn't had time to do any 3d modeling, but i look forward to any future work on this game.

[protokatie]

Pongo, maybe all it will take is a quick polishing of the code (what ever major bug fixes are needed) plus a little thing here and there (title screen, coin handling) and a re-release of it as that. The bug fixes (if still present) are the pain in the butt, but a few simple things like mentioned above would make it a first release (even if not truly complete) and will generate interest. Atleast that way, BYOAC will have its first true official game. Later less-than-necissary additions could be added if interest is still high enough and if you have ample time.

As per the name (since for copyright reasons you may need a new one), how about Saint's Anger? (Anyone who guesses the song name I pulled that from gets a cookie [from doubleclick.com])

[Pongo]

Just a quick post to state that I will start things up on this again. I've pulled up the files and everything appears to be in good order. I spent some time playing the latest build, which has convinced me that this really needs to continue.

Don't expect to see any updates soon though,... I still need to clear through a bunch of work over the next few weeks before I can devote the time needed.

so,... official status has gone from dusty to being dusted off.

[Ummon]

As per the name (since for copyright reasons you may need a new one), how about Saint's Anger? (Anyone who guesses the song name I pulled that from gets a cookie [from doubleclick.com])

Jesus, that's terrible - all way round, including the wannabes who claim they're still Metallica. Hell no. Unless you're going to sell the game, keep the name, so what ?