>>>>> Donkey Kong II released <<<<<<<

[RayB]

And a smiley just for Chad that says "+1"   

[ChadTower]

EDIT: can't find a happy +1

[shilmover]

Hey guys, someone is reproducing Nintendo restrictor plates.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=73374.0

Let's mail Nintendo about this criminal !!!

And every Repro Side Art, Marquee, CPO, Joystick, Button, Instruction Card.

While we are at it:
- Repro Coin Door
- Retro 25cent signs
- Monitor
- Cap Kits
- Inversion boards...


What about the Marquee Lights...   

[Pac-Fan]

I'm just not sure any laws are being broken here, leaving any moral arguments aside.  This hack only works if you have a DK board, and already own the intellectual property in question. I have not seen anywhere that says any of Nintendo/Namco's intellectual property is contained on the kit he's selling. If the kit is simply a new set of instructions telling the game how to present and manipulate the data on the legally purchased DK boardset, then I don't believe there is any illegality involved. People sell kits to modify products consumers own all the time, such as kits to modify cars. There are many different arcade hacks out there, such as chips that will enable free play. Without evidence of copyright infringement to the contrary, I think any claims of illegality are speculation, at best.

If he does have Nintendo/Namco intellectual property on the kit he's selling instead of just referencing the code on the original board, then the discussion changes. I'm not entirely clear what is and isn't allowable as a derivative work.

--- saint

FWIW -- Namco has routinely gone on purge binges on eBay, shutting down auctions simply for having the speed chip installed in a Pac-Man arcade board (not a pirate board, just a new chip 6F on a real board that contains what? something like 2 bytes of code changed?).   I had bid on some that got cancelled for that reason back 2 to 3 years ago.

About 4 years ago when I sold a few items there, they even removed a Pac board that had a JROK ? replacement SBC installed, and was stated in the auction text as such. They claimed copyright infringement on that one since it duplicated their 'proprietary' code. They refused to provide any more information/justification unless I furnished them a laywer to go through.

Just unlucky enough to get caught in one of their enforcement acts. Of course they don't seem to do it constantly. Just more reason to avoid ebay to sell stuff besides being screwed by paypal and scamming buyers.

[cornishHen]

Anyone know of other mini arcade cutouts similiar to:

http://www.jeffsromhack.com/products/d2k_cabinet.htm

??

[Kremmit]

Anyone know of other mini arcade cutouts similiar to:

http://www.jeffsromhack.com/products/d2k_cabinet.htm

??

http://wayoftherodent.com/gd101/bs_paperarcade.htm

[bigh4th]

Not really trying to stir the fire, but while I was searching for some shielded 6x9 speakers,  I came across this:

http://www.arcadeshop.com/multi-pcb/dk2/dk2.htm

So it would seem Jeff is not just selling nintendo's property to people who already have donkey kong pcbs.

-Harry

[CheffoJeffo]

My understanding is that you need DK installed on the board already (hence the reason that both Frizz and I included it in out arguments).

[FrizzleFried]

Not really trying to stir the fire, but while I was searching for some shielded 6x9 speakers,  I came across this:

http://www.arcadeshop.com/multi-pcb/dk2/dk2.htm

So it would seem Jeff is not just selling nintendo's property to people who already have donkey kong pcbs.

-Harry

Harry, 

You do what you want to do,  but I will tell you right now you are wasting  your time and breath (fingers?).  Arcadeshop has been selling their multigame boards for 3  years.  My understanding is they survived a Namco threat of lawsuit as well being they aren't selling the supported ROMS,  only the embty board.  The D2K ROM they do sell only contains the instructions to manipulate the Nintendo code that you need to supply yourself.

You aren't making any friends here with this rant BTW...none...and if you value the assistance of this community,   I'd suggest you rethink your position or at least keep it to yourself.

[CheffoJeffo]

I have no problem with Harry sharing his opinion here (gives us something to talk about), it's the "I'm going to turn jeff in, but I'm just speculating" aspect that I have had a problem with. 

As I have said too many times in this thread, it looks to me as if Harry doesn't "get" things yet ... in particular, the difference between the various types of multigame boards. And there is nothing wrong with not knowing that stuff, unless, of course, you choose to argue about those boards and the distinctions between them.

A little education goes a long way, but Harry has to want to do the learning (and since he missed the link to arcadeshop from the very first post in the thread, along with the subsequent responses concerning them, I am not convinced that he actually does).

Harry -- speak your mind, but please bear in mind that folks aren't just pulling stuff out of the air here and please consider that perhaps your footing isn't as secure as you think it may be.

And then leave Jeff alone anyway, because people who live in glass houses either need to stop throwing rocks or need to make friends with tommy. 

 

[FrizzleFried]

[Level42]

You know. If Jeff was like, one of these guys:

Shorten those links, dammit!

I would actually agree with Harry.

But you know, Jeff is not like these ---uvulas--- at all.....he provided us, the classic games fans a very big favor and invested a lot of time in it. He's not here for a quick buck.I don't care about it being legal or illegal, I care about if I can justify it with my morality. I can, and I think most of us do here.

Problem is Harry doesn't see the difference. His problem.

O, and indeed, if you would have taken the little effort of looking on my initial post you would have seen 2 (two) links.......DUH !

[CheffoJeffo]

That's what I get for posting drunk at the fort ... 

[bigh4th]

Well, please explain what makes this any different or more moral than any other bootleg or hack?

Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I just don't see how someone spending a lot of time working on something illegal makes it moral.  I see it a lot like someone making moonshine.  It take a long time to make it, but its still illegal.

Also, you're right.  I didn't see the arcadeshop link the first time.  Sorry.

-Harry

[FrizzleFried]

Well, please explain what makes this any different or more moral than any other bootleg or hack?

Please explain what makes your stealing ROMS any different than anyone else stealing ROMS? 

Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I just don't see how someone spending a lot of time working on something illegal makes it moral.  I see it a lot like someone making moonshine.  It take a long time to make it, but its still illegal.

If you are all about ETHICS,  please delete all your ROMS.  I know,  in your world it's OK to have them,  but in the LEGAL world they are just as ILLEGAL as what you are ranting on and on about.  If it comes down to ethics,  I'd suggest you get out of this hobby unless you have a lot of $$$ to own each and every game you have a ROM file for.  So,  knowing  you have ILLEGAL ROMS (no matter how you spin it) on your cabinet...how can you talk morals with a straight face?

[bigh4th]

Now I understand the situation.

Jeff is part of the "club".  Anyone in the club can do what they like with what they like, no matter how illegal it is.  If someone outside of the club questions it, the club comes down on them like a ton of bricks.

You also seem to be under the impression that owning a game gives you a legal right to have rom files of said game.  It does not, and that is just as illegal.  Unauthorized ROM files are illegal, no matter if you own the PCBs, Cartridge, disk, or anything else.

Selling hacked versions of games (be it via a pass-through or whatever) does nothing but draw more negative attention to those of us who (while having illegal copies of games) actualy mean no harm to any of the copywright holders,  but would still like to play their games when we have no means of doing so otherwise.  See where I'm comming from?

You never did answer my question, by the way.

-Harry

[CheffoJeffo]

Now I understand the situation.

Jeff is part of the "club".  Anyone in the club can do what they like with what they like, no matter how illegal it is.  If someone outside of the club questions it, the club comes down on them like a ton of bricks.

Please, Harry, spare us the sanctimony about legality until such time as you have cleaned up your own house. *I* came down on you for reporting someone without understanding the background and while breaking just as many laws yourself.

You also seem to be under the impression that owning a game gives you a legal right to have rom files of said game.  It does not, and that is just as illegal.  Unauthorized ROM files are illegal, no matter if you own the PCBs, Cartridge, disk, or anything else.

Where the heck did you pull this from ? Please cite a specific reference.

I know lots of guys who've never once used MAME and have pulled ROM files from their chips in order to burn replacements or to install on replacement emulator-based boards. This is a well-established practice and I would like to know where your information is coming from since folks like Namco know about it.

Selling hacked versions of games (be it via a pass-through or whatever) does nothing but draw more negative attention to those of us who (while having illegal copies of games) actualy mean no harm to any of the copywright holders,  but would still like to play their games when we have no means of doing so otherwise.  See where I'm comming from?

Yeah, it's all about you being able to play your games (without having to pay what you consider to be an excessive price) and to hell with the rest of us. 

[bigh4th]

§ 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs53
(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy. — Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or

(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

--http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117

In short, you are only allowed to "archive" ROMs if you have a means to reproduce them on a chip to be used as a replacement for a defective chip.  You do not have the right to use a rom with an emulator or to alter it in any way.

Furthermore,

(b) Lease, Sale, or Other Transfer of Additional Copy or Adaptation. — Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner.

So, D2K is illegal, and your friends who install them on emulator-based boards are breaking the law.

No, its not all about me being able to play games for a low price, its about people like me being able to play these games at all.  There is virtualy NOTHING for sale in virginia, as far as arcade games go.  Do a 75 mile search on ebay in arcades for zip 23841.  Hardly anything.

The majority of people (i.e. not you and frizzle) do not have $700 plus to drop on a ragged donkey kong machine that may or may not work, plus have the extra $$$ to have it shipped from out of state.

-Harry

[CheffoJeffo]

Thanks for the link ... I'm not sure that I agree with your interpretation, particularly vis-a-vis emulation for those who have original licensed equipment, but I can see where you are coming from. I am also not convinced that your representation of what D2K is accurate (as per saint's post on the topic).

And my point about the availability is not that I think you should run our and actually buy every cabinet, but rather that your argument that they are not available holds no water as a legal defense (hence, the repeated queries about your apparent double-standard) and isn't much of a moral defense because you are just saying that you can't afford it.

At the end of the day, we're not questioning why you have a MAME cab -- we're questioning the your holier-than-thou attitude towards Jeff (including your intent to report him), who is clearly doing something that most of the coin-op hobbyist community seems to look very favourably on (so interfering with that would be harmful to the community), when you are happy enough to overlook your own violations.

[FrizzleFried]

The majority of people (i.e. not you and frizzle) do not have $700 plus to drop on a ragged donkey kong machine that may or may not work, plus have the extra $$$ to have it shipped from out of state.

-Harry

I do have a Donkey Kong machine...well...a Double Donkey Kong machine,  but that is just as illegal I suppose.  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  The day you destroy your MAME cabinet is the day I start taking anything you say seriously.  You are a hypocrite. 

[RayB]

Harry, how hard is it for you to understand that the chips contain a set of data that alters the original board's data? That's not illegal.

The DMCA even provides exceptions for "obsolete" hardware and media.

[WunderCade]

I just wish they'd sell the Braze Kit with the new DKII roms already installed (since one depends on the other) instead of pinching you for both separately.

[CheffoJeffo]

I just wish they'd sell the Braze Kit with the new DKII roms already installed (since one depends on the other) instead of pinching you for both separately.

Scott's kits do not depend on D2K -- they're a high score save / enhancement kit.

EDIT: I misread ... mea culpa ... Wunder wasn't implying a two-way dependance ... sorry ...

[Haze]

Harry, how hard is it for you to understand that the chips contain a set of data that alters the original board's data? That's not illegal.

The DMCA even provides exceptions for "obsolete" hardware and media.

That's a common misconception.  The DMCA exceptions do NOT make it ok to ignore the copyright / hack the game code which is exactly what is being done here.  They make it acceptable to work around protection etc. on obsolete systems for interoperability purposes (basically the things MAME does)

Nintendo could quite easily shut down the entire DK2 thing, they'd be well within their rights to do so, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do if they become aware of it because it actually threatens their Donkey Kong trademark, something which they're *very* protective over.

[RayB]

I never said the exceptions give right to copy the programming. I mentioned exceptions exist, and its up to the reader to go look up what the exceptions are rather than make assumptions.

Hacking game code isn't a copyright violation unless the chips being sold actually CONTAIN game code. If its just new level data, the new bits and bytes that dictate which graphic tile goes where is actually copyright of the guy who made this hack!

You know this [Haze]. MAME is still alive under the very same principle.

[bigh4th]

Hacking game code isn't a copyright violation unless the chips being sold actually CONTAIN game code. If its just new level data, the new bits and bytes that dictate which graphic tile goes where is actually copyright of the guy who made this hack!

Ahh, but what is game code by definition?  Does Game code not dictate what graphic tile goes where?  Does game code not dictate what pallet is used to color said graphic tile?

In short, does D2K not alter DK's original game code?  Does D2K not contain its own graphics tiles which were not present in the original DK?

The DMCA does NOT provide exemptions on "obsolete" hardware or media in the case of alteration.  The DMCA only provides exemptions on "obsolete" hardware or meda to be able to accesable or useable.

Section 1201 divides technological measures into two categories: measures that
prevent unauthorized access to a copyrighted work and measures that prevent
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998
2“Copying” is used in this context as a short-hand for the exercise of any of the exclusive
rights of an author under section 106 of the Copyright Act. Consequently, a technological
measure that prevents unauthorized distribution or public performance of a work would fall
in this second category.

unauthorized copying2 of a copyrighted work. Making or selling devices or services that
are used to circumvent either category of technological measure is prohibited in certain
circumstances, described below. As to the act of circumvention in itself, the provision
prohibits circumventing the first category of technological measures, but not the
second.
This distinction was employed to assure that the public will have the continued
ability to make fair use of copyrighted works. Since copying of a work may be a fair use
under appropriate circumstances, section 1201 does not prohibit the act of circumventing
a technological measure that prevents copying.

Example:  you have a copy of joe blows checkers from 1992 on floppy-disk and you've lost the password to it.  Under this act, you can only LEGALY bypass the password system to make the game useable.  This does not give you the right to alter joe blow's checkers into john doe's chess.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Manufacturing_Co._v._Artic_International%2C_Inc.

D2K modifies the games code, so it is illegal.

-Harry

[CheffoJeffo]

* CheffoJeffo throws his hands up in dismay when realizes that he tends to agree with PBJ ...

Many of us flirt with the illegalities and moral issues and some just step right over it. My personal view is that those running emulator-based cabs with a large collection of pirated ROMS are more in the wrong than folks like Jeff. 

I would like to see D2K and similar projects continue unimpeded because those are the projects that are useful to me. It is selfish vis a vis Nintendo's rights, but I think less selfish than someone who would say that Jeff is bad for the hobby, while downloading 4000+ pirate ROMS for their own illegal use.

[RayB]

Ahh, but what is game code by definition?  Does Game code not dictate what graphic tile goes where?  Does game code not dictate what pallet is used to color said graphic tile?

To answer the question, no.  The video hardware handles this.  But why don't you ask a programmer? Oh hey, I'm a programmer. Ask me.

I'm not going to bother explaining to a non-techy how the hardware and programming works just to try and change your preconceptions, that I sense is futile. But you can see for yourself from this list that each set of data is on its own chip(s): See here: http://www.brasington.org/arcade/tech/dk/

You could swap out a chip with your own set of new "moving objects" or your own set of new colors and there's absolutely nothing illegal about that. In fact, the new set of graphics would be copyrighted by YOU the creator of those new graphics.

It's only infringing if the DkII chip still has some original data on it. (Something we can't know for sure without dumping this new chip and comparing it with the original).

But picture this ok... you own a DK board but it's not working properly. You send it to someone to fix. In order to repair the board, Mr. Repairman must replace a few ROM chips. In order to do this, the replacement ROMs must be burned with the correct data. Since the old chips are broken or corrupt, where does this data come from? You cannot buy them from Nintendo. So the service person takes another working DK board, and dumps the data from those chips onto his PC. He then burns this data to the new chips, then installs them on the board. Game works like new again. He sends it back to you and you pay him for his services.

TECHNICALLY, if you want to be an ass about it, that repair person just broke copyright law TWICE. Once when he created a copy on his PC and a second time by burning the data to new chips. There's no way in hell Nintendo are going to provide repair services for a 25 year old game board. But people like HARRY would like to see Mr. Repairman turned in to Nintendo. How nice of him. (And don't try to say "well that's different, this guy is SELLING his hack". The repair man gets PAID too).

[Jdurg]

This is where I feel that anyone making money off of property that is not theirs is worse than those who aren't making any money but enjoying the games.  E.G. someone who builds a MAME cab and charges people to play it are worse off than those who build a MAME cab for their own enjoyment.

[Level42]

Hey Cheffo !

Christmas is over 

[CheffoJeffo]

This is where I feel that anyone making money off of property that is not theirs is worse than those who aren't making any money but enjoying the games.  E.G. someone who builds a MAME cab and charges people to play it are worse off than those who build a MAME cab for their own enjoyment.

To be clear, I was speaking specifically of people like Jeff, who are not selling MAME cabs (a point on which I would agree with you), but who support the coin-op hobby (e.g. there is more to the hobby than just MAME) with stuff like D2K.

[Jdurg]

This is where I feel that anyone making money off of property that is not theirs is worse than those who aren't making any money but enjoying the games.  E.G. someone who builds a MAME cab and charges people to play it are worse off than those who build a MAME cab for their own enjoyment.

To be clear, I was speaking specifically of people like Jeff, who are not selling MAME cabs (a point on which I would agree with you), but who support the coin-op hobby (e.g. there is more to the hobby than just MAME) with stuff like D2K.

No problem.  What he's doing by selling D2K is akin to the whole Galoob vs. Nintendo battle many, many years ago.  Galoob was marketing the Game Genie which ran on Nintendo's hardware but altered the way the hardware worked.  It was deemed perfectly legal because none of the Game Genie's hardware or code was taken from Nintendo nor did they break some type of encryption to get the Game Genie to work.

As long as he's not breaking any encryption to get his D2K modification to work, and as long as he's not using any of Nintendo's code, what he's doing is akin to what the Game Genie did and the Game Genie was deemed 100% legal.

Now those people who sell DVDs full of ROMS or cabs fully stocked with games should be drawn and quartered.

[bigh4th]

To answer the question, no.  The video hardware handles this.  But why don't you ask a programmer? Oh hey, I'm a programmer. Ask me.

I'm not going to bother explaining to a non-techy how the hardware and programming works just to try and change your preconceptions, that I sense is futile. But you can see for yourself from this list that each set of data is on its own chip(s): See here: http://www.brasington.org/arcade/tech/dk/

So what you're saying is the video hardware randomly guesses what tiles are placed where and what pallet is used, but it randomly guesses correctly every time?  There is no programming that tells the video hardware where to places the tiles and what pallet is used?  Bull.

All I see on the page you linked is examples of what happens if there are problems with the video hardware.  The games programming (or code, if you will) is telling the video hardware where to place things, but the video hardware can't do it due to a malfunction.

You could swap out a chip with your own set of new "moving objects" or your own set of new colors and there's absolutely nothing illegal about that. In fact, the new set of graphics would be copyrighted by YOU the creator of those new graphics.

How do you explain "crazy kong"?  How about the numerous pac-man maze hacks?. For some reason, they're illegal..

It's only infringing if the DkII chip still has some original data on it. (Something we can't know for sure without dumping this new chip and comparing it with the original).

Oh, please.  A look at a screenshot will tell you all you need to know.  Gurders, ladders, oil cans, etc. all look the same.  The DKII chip has PLENTY of original data on it.

But picture this ok... you own a DK board but it's not working properly. You send it to someone to fix. In order to repair the board, Mr. Repairman must replace a few ROM chips. In order to do this, the replacement ROMs must be burned with the correct data. Since the old chips are broken or corrupt, where does this data come from? You cannot buy them from Nintendo. So the service person takes another working DK board, and dumps the data from those chips onto his PC. He then burns this data to the new chips, then installs them on the board. Game works like new again. He sends it back to you and you pay him for his services.

TECHNICALLY, if you want to be an ass about it, that repair person just broke copyright law TWICE. Once when he created a copy on his PC and a second time by burning the data to new chips. There's no way in hell Nintendo are going to provide repair services for a 25 year old game board. But people like HARRY would like to see Mr. Repairman turned in to Nintendo. How nice of him. (And don't try to say "well that's different, this guy is SELLING his hack". The repair man gets PAID too).

No, that would not be breaking copywright law.  You are allowed to archive such material and use it for repair/replacement services.  You are not allowed to alter that material, or use that material on a device it was not intended to be used with.  Check one of my previous replys for the link to copywright.gov and do some research.

-Harry

[bigh4th]

No problem.  What he's doing by selling D2K is akin to the whole Galoob vs. Nintendo battle many, many years ago.  Galoob was marketing the Game Genie which ran on Nintendo's hardware but altered the way the hardware worked.  It was deemed perfectly legal because none of the Game Genie's hardware or code was taken from Nintendo nor did they break some type of encryption to get the Game Genie to work.

As long as he's not breaking any encryption to get his D2K modification to work, and as long as he's not using any of Nintendo's code, what he's doing is akin to what the Game Genie did and the Game Genie was deemed 100% legal.

Now those people who sell DVDs full of ROMS or cabs fully stocked with games should be drawn and quartered.

You're right, D2k is like the Game genie thing.  The game genie was infact, illegal.  while it didn't use nintendo hardware, it did indeed bypass the NES' encryption by using the cartridge as a pass-through.  As a matter of fact, there are a few games that don't work with the game genie because it couldn't use the cartridge as a pass-through to defeat the encryption.  Castlevania 3 is a prime example.

The game genie also filtered and temporarily altered the games code, which is/was also illegal.

Nintendo lost that suit only because the Judge was ignorant and deemed that nintendo had already made lots of money on the NES, so the game genie wasn't a big deal.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galoob_v._Nintendo

[FrizzleFried]

How do you explain "crazy kong"?  How about the numerous pac-man maze hacks?. For some reason, they're illegal...

More talking out of your ass.  Crazy Kong was licensed from Nintendo. 

COPY OF: Donkey Kong

This game is not a bootleg, but a legitimate release licensed for non-US markets.

-klov

Why are we arguing over this crap?   Bottom line comes down to...

Do you want to be a dick?  Go report Jeff to NOA.   

I,  for one,  can say for sure that this little tantrum of yours has tainted my opinion of you to the point that I'd never offer any assistance for any future problem you may have.  Why help out a ---tallywhacker---? 

So do what you want to do... and just remember that karma is a ---smurfette--- bro...

EDIT: PS - I already have my DKII ...and it's one helluva upgrade!  Very enjoyable and I highly recommend it to any Donkey Kong fan.

[RayB]

holy sh!t, lock this thread.

A judge found the Game Genie was not infringing, but because Harry says so, it is illegal.

I point Harry to a table that shows how the data is divided up among different chips, but harry's too stupid to understand how programming would LOOK UP the data and write it to the screen, so again, he's right, and those who know better are wrong.

He's either trolling, incredibly young or dumb...  Lock this thread before my brain explodes!

[Level42]

Yep, I played Crazy Kong like nuts because that was the only version around here in Europe. Officialy licensed by Falcon. That was also why I thought the level order on Donkey Kong on the Atari 8-bit series was wrong
(Fabulous conversion by the way, like DKjr.)

"Nintendo lost that suit only because the Judge was ignorant and deemed that nintendo had already made lots of money on the NES, so the game genie wasn't a big deal.  "


Mmmmm, what do you think ? Did Nintendo make lots of money on DK (the arcade game) ? One of the biggest arcade hits ever ? A game released over 26 years ago. Do you really think a judge is going to decide something else in this case ? The Game Genie probably sold a couple of million, or at least somewhere in the 100,000's. We're talking about, what 100-300 DK2's ?

Man, Nintendo is earning truckloads of money on the Wii and the DS these days, do you think they will loose a second of sleep over DK2 ? I don't think so.

But if you want to play saint (no not "our" saint) go ahead, but leave us criminals alone....

[bigh4th]

holy sh!t, lock this thread.

A judge found the Game Genie was not infringing, but because Harry says so, it is illegal.

Once again, do some research.  Nintendo sued Tengen and won the case because their games bypassed or defeated the encryption on the NES.  The game genie does the same thing, just in a different way.  The judge clearly said that nintendo had already made plenty of money on the NES, so she was gonna let the Game genie slide.  By law, the game genie is illegal, but the judge basicly didn't give a rip.

I point Harry to a table that shows how the data is divided up among different chips, but harry's too stupid to understand how programming would LOOK UP the data and write it to the screen, so again, he's right, and those who know better are wrong.

So now you're saying that the programming will look up the data (meaning, nintendo put that data there to begin with) and write it to the screen. Isn't data the same thing as code?  You just contradicted yourself and said the same thing I did in one of my previous posts.

Being that the Gurders, ladders, and all that other crap on D2K look the same as DK, would that not be using Nintendo's "data"?

Quit trying to blur the lines.  Anyone who can read and get their hands on legal documents can clearly see D2K is illegal, regaurdless of if the "club" thinks so or not.

-Harry

[bigh4th]

Mmmmm, what do you think ? Did Nintendo make lots of money on DK (the arcade game) ? One of the biggest arcade hits ever ? A game released over 26 years ago. Do you really think a judge is going to decide something else in this case ? The Game Genie probably sold a couple of million, or at least somewhere in the 100,000's. We're talking about, what 100,300 DK2's ?

I think a competent judge would realize that the law is the law and making a crap-load of money on something does not make the laws protecting it dissapear.  The judge in the galoob-vs-nintendo case was not competent.

Man, Nintendo is earning truckloads of money on the Wii and the DS these days, do you think they will loose a second of sleep over DK2 ? I don't think so.

I doubt they will either.  However, I do know that Nintendo doesn't like people making money off of their work.  Who would?

The double-standard at this forum is astounding.  You can't discuss anything that goes against the Mame dev's wishes, you can't discuss illegal multi-boards,  but advertising for a game that is illegal and that is sold on an illegal multi-board (unless they got nintendos permission to include DK on it) is perfectly fine, because Jeff is in the club.  Then when it is proven to be illegal, you guys try to mish-mash crap to make it look legal.

You guys need to get away from the solder fumes and get some fresh air.

-Harry

[Level42]

Yeah, and I guess you should go looking for another forum if you'd like some help/support in the future.

AGAIN you are mis-informed (to put it politely). Discussing x-in-1 boards IS ok here as long as you do not link or reference to sellers.

And I am not sure Jeff is on this forum. Let's hope not. For his sake that is.