Project Database Brainstorm (updated 10/31/07)

[Neverending Project]

Table/Field Requirements:
This first post will contain the up-to-date compilation of data requirements for the Project Database. I will review suggestions below, and if we want to capture the requirement I will update this post. When we have the list of requirements, we can focus on the correct tool(s) to make it happen. We'll start with a look at the table/field requirements, then talk about the search/browse functionality.

This will most likely need a set of relational tables. Tables will be listed in Bold, fields in blue followed by a colon, and if a field only allows certain values they will be listed in brackets. These are all up for discussion, and where indicated in italic I am looking for feedback.

Update Comments:
Updates in green with input found later in thread (beginning here). Added Pics table for all pictures.

Projects Table
Name: Cabinet Name Jimbo. How could I have missed this one?
Description: Brief description of project. Jimbo
Start Date: Date work began on project. Actual project start date, not entry into database Jimbo.
BYOAC Thread: Link to BYOAC thread Jimbo.
Type: [Upright, Cocktail, Cockpit, Jukebox, Bartop, Other]
Base: [Scratch-built, Conversion, Restoration, ?] NP
The completion and phase fields can be captured a couple of different ways. We an have a field for the phase of construction:
Phase: [Planning/Design, Construction, Almost Complete, Complete, Sold, Re-design]
And another field for percent complete.
Complete: [0-100] in 10% increments including 99%
Would the percent complete reset for each phase? Should we skip the phase, and only offer a percentage?
Coin Door: [Two-coin over-under, Three-coin over-under, etc.]
Overall Rating: [1-5] as rated by others
Front-End: [Mala, Mamewah, GameEx, etc.] Jimbo. Multiple entries allowed.
OS: [DOS, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, TinyXP, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Linux]
Emulator: [MAME, Daphne, Modeler, Nebula, Vantage, Zinc, etc.] multiple entries allowed
Inspirations: [link to other projects/users]
Display: [Arcade Monitor, CRT, TV, LCD, Vector, Other] Multiple entries allowed.
Display Type: [Static, Rotating Manual, Rotating Motorized] Added motorized. Jimbo/shock_.
Aspect Ratio: [4:3, 16:9, 16:10, ?]
Diagonal Size: (inches)
Orientation: [Horizontal, Vertical, Both]
Control Panel Type: [Static, Swappable, Rotating, Modular, ?]
CP Inspiration: [link to other panels/users]
CP Rating: [1-5] as rated by others
Last Updated: (automatically updates to the last time the data was updated)
Total Cost: To date. Jimbo.
Tags: Free text. Covers anything not inlcuded in select fields. Jimbo.
Plans: (sketchup/autocad/pen-and-paper/"by the book"/based-on/etc.) Jimbo. I'm not sure how this would be kept consistent. Maybe rolled in with the Inspiration field?
Plans Link: Link to plans file if available. Jimbo/shock_
Computer HW: [Original arcade PCB, multi-game PCB, Desktop PC, laptop PC, Other] shock_
CPU Type: [PIII, PIV, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, etc.] shock_

Each project will also need multiple entries in the following table, one for each picture oof their project.
Pics Table
Picture of: What is the picture of - CP, cabinet, coin door, etc. Can be select box, or free input.
Picture Phase: What phase is the component at the time of the pic. Same phases as above.
Picture JPEG, GIF, PNG, etc.
Picture Tags Free text for searchable keywords about picture.

Each project will also need multiple entries in the following table, one for each control on their panel.
Controls Table
Type: [Joystick, Button, Trackball, Spinner, Lightgun, Wheel, Pedal, Shifter, Yoke, Handlebars, Encoder]
Make: [Happs 8-way, Ultimarc 360, Logitech Driving Force Pro, I-Pac2, A-Pac, etc.]
Mount: [Top Flush, Top, Bottom, Removable, Other]
Light: (either boolean or type of light here)

Original Post Follows:
I'm thinking about creating a website for the sole purpose of categorizing and showcasing users cabinets. My initial thought was to create a database where cabinets could be stored with pictures, stats, etc. for easy searching and reviewing.

A user would log in and add their own cabinets complete with fields for cabinet style, monitor type, controls, OS, front end, mame version, inspirations, plans (if available), leds, etc. Then users could perform complex searches to get ideas or see how others performed similar tasks. I even thought about adding a ranking system where users could vote for cabs from one to five stars. I would also include a spot to keep track of your build stage, so others could see in what state your cabinet is.

The idea is just an idea right now, but I wanted to see if there is interest out there in the community. Would you use something like this? If the site could grow to hundreds of cabinets, there may be some really useful information to be found. It would be free... I wouldn't be interested in charging people to access the site.

I have more ideas, but it is a long road. What do you think?

[Kaytrim]

Why compete with Saint's database?   He has over 1200 cabs already.

[kelemvor]

The one thing that makes the "Examples" page on this site useless (IMHO) is that there are no pictures.  This means I have to literally click on every single link on that page to see what the cabinet is.

My only suggestion would be to have something that listed them broken down by type (sit down, up-right, etc) but to show a thumbnail of each cabinet on the main list.  That way I could view them all at once and just view mor einfo on the one(s) that I actually like the look of.

Thumbnails are tiny enough in size that loading a page would still only take a couple seconds but make sure they are big enough to see at least some of the details.

I'd make it nice and have Saint link it in to this site or incorporate it somehow to get everyone here to submit their stuff.  And also I'd try to make sure everything is hosted on your own site or you end up with half the links that don't work because the personal site they used is no longer in existence.

Kind of like a Blog site basically but with a database on the back end to index everything.  I like the idea.

[Neverending Project]

Why compete with Saint's database?   He has over 1200 cabs already.

I would not want to compete with anything done on this site. It is an amazing resource, and the knowledge accumulated here amazes me every day.

I am more interested in complimenting the info here, and adding a Web 2.0 flare to the cab database. In my head, everything is searchable - similar to the search features of MAWS. I imagine being able to perform very specific searches (e.g. cabinets with TVs between 22" and 27" using a trackball, two spinners and an i-Pac and have a rotating panel).

OK, that was just an obscure search example, but hopefully you get the point.

[Jimbo]

I like the idea too, not as a seperate site, but as an improved/upgraded version of the Examples page on this site, that would be great.  I must admit its hard work traversing the current examples page as  a) there's so many cabs listed with no clues on the page what's unique about them, and b) half of the links are dead - as kelemvor said, host all the projects in one place to prevent this.  I may open a can of worms here, but I'd also like the ability to rate and comment on the cabs...  perhaps a system where you could rate on different things like cp design, innovation, wow/bling factor, craftsmanship, artwork etc.

[saint]

I would love to implement something along this lines here. See any of the multiple threads over the last couple of years regarding updating the look/feel of the site

[kelemvor]

So there you have it.  Maybe the two of you (Neverending and Saint) can get together.  If Neverending has the time and knowledge to code something like this and Saint has the current info, just get a sample and go from there.  Should be able to implement it right on this site and be great.

I will definitely look forward to seeing the end result.  Can we schedule a showing for next Friday? 

[Jimbo]

COol.   And of course give me a shout for beta testing!

[CheffoJeffo]

Good idea and I hope it works out ...

Be sure to check out the previous discussions on the same topic as projects such as this require a high degree of user participation, in the absence of which someone has to go through the list and set up entries on their own. I don't remember right now who did it for the wiki (so that we would be able to update/remove as appropriate), but my hat is off to them for the effort, despite the lack of thumbnails ... which could be added if more people helped out with it 

Again, good idea and I do hope it works out.

EDIT: There is a thread somewhere in the wiki discussion board about how the data was moved from the old examples page to the wiki ... perhaps some of that information could be of use.

[XyloSesame]

I imagine being able to perform very specific searches (e.g. cabinets with TVs between 22" and 27" using a trackball, two spinners and an i-Pac and have a rotating panel).

What about simply adding an SMF gallery mod? Use tags to search and link to the project thread/offsite page, if it exists. It would save someone quite a bit of effort looking at PHP...

[vertygo]

I'd definitely love to help out, I've got some php / mysql experience.

I do agree it takes alot of user participation, but maybe if we build they will come 

If it's made easy enough, like a form to fill out with the ability to just upload pics, I think alot of people will be on board.

[Agent Davis]

I would recommend updating the current section on BYOAC as has been suggested.  Scour the projects pages and find email information and send out email invitations to people who have created their own page to have their project showcased on the grandaddy of em all!

[Cakemeister]

Examples page in the wiki

The wiki just has a list of projects of each type, with a few pictures.

I guess the OP would like something like a gallery that you could just click on?

That is doable, but it would take quite a bit of work. The reason is because each homepage would have to be visited to get a link to the project picture. These pictures tend to be subject to bit-rot, so it may be better just to upload pictures for each project. Quite an undertaking.

I could code up something to make the wikitext. That part wouldn't be difficult.

[Neverending Project]

To be honest, my original idea was a brand new database. This would require active users to add their own cabs. This would ensure the data is up-to-date, and consistent from project to project. After reading some of the suggestions, I realize that ideally we could incorporate old data too, but it remains to be seen how much work it will be gathering up old data, pics, etc.

In my head, I am picturing more of an online browsing/searching tool, rather than just a pic repository or image gallery. It would have the ability to rate cabs, post comments (a la The Wall in facebook), and most importantly, allow easy access to data.

I can picture a browsing feature - you would select which fields to browse by and the results list would update for you. There would also be a search feature, where you can search for specific specs or styles.

I am thinking this site would be focused on the cabinets (projects) themselves, and let this forum remain focused on all the sharing of information, how-to's, what cab is this?, which joystick is best, etc.

Eventually, it may evolve into allowing project blogging, but I don't want to take on too much all at once. If it were hosted on this domain, it would be great to tie into the user database already, so logged in users could post comments and rate, while guests could only view.

I am glad there is interest out there. I will try to put some fake screenshots together to get some more ideas for what we would like to see. I am thinking HADB for Home Arcade Database.

So this should go live in... what, a couple of days? 

[shock_]

Interesting stuff. 

Agree 110% if it happens it should be an evolution for the cab example wiki and not some other site.  Then this thread could be migrated to the Forum Discussion board!

I don't think the migration of data is that big an issue.  Hell, people like Circo generate thousands of intro videos for this hobby!  A bit of farmed-out data entry never killed anyone 

Before anyone gets too crazy with coding, this would be quite easy to set up using Drupal with a few modules (think: plug-ins).  I'm converting a 250,000+ page site to Drupal at the moment for work, and all the features mentioned in this thread would be pretty simple to bolt together.

For those who haven't used it, Drupal is a mature open source PHP/MySQL content framework that contains a core set of features for publishing and categorising content, plus a bruzillion contributed modules to plug in and do loads of other stuff (eg. fivestar module could handle the ratings from 1 to 5). 

Some bigger sites using Drupal are Sony Musicbox, The New York Observer, The Onion.

To be honest, my original idea was a brand new database. This would require active users to add their own cabs. This would ensure the data is up-to-date, and consistent from project to project. After reading some of the suggestions, I realize that ideally we could incorporate old data too, but it remains to be seen how much work it will be gathering up old data, pics, etc.

Yup, an old cab can definitely still be a good reference - even if the data available are a bit thin.  But not every field need be mandatory   Good information architecture is crucial though.

In my head, I am picturing more of an online browsing/searching tool, rather than just a pic repository or image gallery. It would have the ability to rate cabs, post comments (a la The Wall in facebook), and most importantly, allow easy access to data.

I can picture a browsing feature - you would select which fields to browse by and the results list would update for you. There would also be a search feature, where you can search for specific specs or styles.

Drupal...

I am thinking this site would be focused on the cabinets (projects) themselves, and let this forum remain focused on all the sharing of information, how-to's, what cab is this?, which joystick is best, etc.

Kinda like the wiki is now, then    But if each record carried data (or was simply tagged) like U360 sticks, overmount/undermounting, monitor rotation, button illumination, Athlon 2100+, TurboTwist2, Taito, upright, lexan CP, etc etc, each of those could link to canned forum searches.

Eventually, it may evolve into allowing project blogging, but I don't want to take on too much all at once. If it were hosted on this domain, it would be great to tie into the user database already, so logged in users could post comments and rate, while guests could only view.

Drupal Drupal Drupal  Sorry.  Seriously, blogging is out of the box.  Drupal uses MD5 I think - we've recently successfully ported plural thousands of username/password hashes from our old site into Drupal (we were lucky; we had our existing hashes in MD5 ... no nasty phishy-smelling email to all our users to tell them they need to sign up again!)  Common sign on (i.e. how BYOAC's SMF forum and Wiki software work right now) is simpler; single sign on becomes ... interesting, I think. 

I read a thread about a year ago on the SMF development site where some dude was asking the SMF developers to assist with integrating with Drupal's uesr authentication and the SMF dude was really rude and dismissive about it. Sorry, that's just a single, and ancient, anecdote.  No real advice to be had.

Sorry to sound like a Drupal fanboi, but this is a bunch of work to do properly, and I know the code exists to do it already and would hate a) time to be wasted or b) the implementation to be sub-optimal   I'm not a developer, by the way, but I work with some    I do the user design / information architecture stuff.

[kelemvor]

Well, whatever way this goes, I'd setup a sample with the front end, a couple sample records, etc and post it for feedback.  Since this site will live or die by the users, be sure to involve us all right from the get go.  Ideas, tweaks, changes, etc.  Of course you can't please everyone but fresh eyes looking at something always helps.

I'm definitely up for giving my input or even helping out if I can.

[Jimbo]

You could develop it as a new "beta" page, let people upload their own cab pics/content, and run it in tandem with the current examples or wiki page until all the existing information is assimilated.  For all those old cab examples, I would think 4 or 5 volunteers would be able to work through them in no time, if the new system has a good enough UI.

I work as a web developer/designer, and am happy to help out where I can.

[ratzz]

Sounds like a great idea - I'd be happy to help out also by offering a Platinum Hosting package free of charge (if it's needed). Details of which can be found at my website at http://www.insidefocus.co.uk

I'm sure you guys have already got this covered, but it's there if you need it.

Cheers
Ratzz ... 

[XyloSesame]

@ shock: I agree Drupal would be a good option to consider

@ Neverending: Were you wanting to hand-code this as a pet project, or did you just want to see it done?

I've got PHP/MySQL and advanced CSS to bring to the table, and should be able to devote time to capturing (and correcting) old data from the existing Examples page and wiki.

[JoyMonkey]

The new RetroBlast has a section in development that could handle exactly what Neverending Project describes above.
We aren't going to use it for arcade cabinet projects though, this is definitely BYOAC's realm, not RetroBlast's. I don't want to disclose too much detail of what we've got planned just yet, but if you drop me a PM I'll let you in on some info.

[Neverending Project]

@shock: Drupal may be a great do-all sort of CMS, I don't have any experience with it. But looking through it's site (and the other examples you listed), would it take a similar amount of programming and time to get it set up the way we want? (That is a question, not a dismissive remark).

@XyloSesame: Yes, originally it was a hand-coded pet project. But, as I'm sure you all know, those can tend to be overwhelming and sometimes the sheer scope can get in the way of a completed project... Much like a cabinet project, no?

The acceptance of this user base is certainly the most important aspect. If you aren't behind it, it won't get used. If everyone is leaning toward a Drupal type system, then I am sure it can be tweaked enough to bend it toward our specific needs. On the other hand, if it is a hand-coded project it may miss some of the bigger-picture features like expandability or modularity.

Discussion is good. Do you have any examples of Drupal-based sites similar to our needs? My thought was a site where the users enter their own cabinets. This way the data will always be up-to-date. You are thinking of a site where an administrator(s) enter the data that a user submits, right? One is more of a peer site, the other is more of a gallery.

[kelemvor]

I think we should start this by hashing out ideas and seeing what people want and expect from an  update/replacement for the Examples page.  That way we all know where we're starting from and extra things can be added over time.

Here's my initial thoughts.

Users would have a login (preferably it'd link to the forums and use that) so that updates and things can be input later but only by the right person.

User enters their own information including uploading at least one picture of their finalized cab.  This picture would be on a main screen in case the user hosts their own site somewhere that eventually goes away as most do.

User would then pick various options from a predefined set to best describe their cab.  These would then be used for searching/filtering when other people want to view what's available.  Possible items would be:
cocktail, upright, driving, etc
LCD monitor, CRT monitor, TV, arcade monitor
choices for screen size
control panel options
etc

User could then enter as much or little data as they want to into the database.  Could be complete construction notes with pictures, commentary, etc.  Could just be a link to their own site which has the data, etc.  A built in photo gallery option would be nice.  Pictures could be uploaded (better for archiving but take up space) or linked to (no space or and width but could disappear at a later date.

Outside users would be able to browse the various cabinets that were input.  They should be able to filter/search for things based on as many of few of all the things listed up above.  The MUST HAVE for me is that the results would show a thumbnail picture of the finished cabs based on the picture uploaded by the user.  Or at least there would have to be a checkbox that I can choose to show the picture if I want to and others could choose not to if they have a crappy internet connection.

Then I could refine my results or just browse around and see what's out there.

Well, those are the main things I have off the top of my head. 

@Neverending, maybe start a list of specific features up in the OP that you can add things to or remove things from based on other people's responses so we have one master list.

Thanks.

[Jimbo]

To add to kelemvor's suggestions: -

I'd like to be able to tag the project that I upload... for example I could tag it like so:  red, luminous, frankenpanel, leds, tall, etc.   Tags can be browsed just like the other filtered info.

As I mentioned before: user ratings, maybe star-ratings for example.  You could rate on such things as cp design, innovation, wow/bling factor, craftsmanship, artwork etc.

Definitely have a "last updated" field for the user's project page.

Definitely integration to the forum... perhaps a dedicated place to link to your dedicated project thread.

I'm all for hosting as much as poss in one location to prevent dead links.  For links to external pages, its quite easy these days to automate a broken/dead link checker. Perhaps broken links should be reported to the project owners giving them a chance to fix them, then after a while they get removed if no success.

Maybe the ability to embed youtube (or other) videos would be cool too.

Well there's a few ideas from me for now.

[headkaze]

I have a few ideas relating to this as I've managed CMS sites before as well as got dirty with PHP, Perl, HTML, Javascript etc. So I'd be happy to help out in my spare time. I would probably be best suited at helping design/layout/scripting/tools as I have worked in web design, scripting and programming for a number of years.

Here are some ideas I'd like to put to the table.

- Convert the existing database over to a new database so that existing project submissions will be available to search. Add some extra fields Eg. Uploading a picture of your project (maybe even a gallery). This would probably require a program written to convert the existing database over to a new database format (as a coder I can possibly help write this migration tool).

- Make the data updatable and maintainable, so that if a website changes or they add LED's to their project, for example, it can be updated in their Project table. The best way to do this would be to link the forum user database with the project database.

- A mod for SMF such as Custom Profile Filed Mod would be sufficient (although the ability to upload an image or a picture gallery mod would also need to be added). Looking at the current Add Project page this looks relatively simple to do in it's current form.

- On a bigger scale the SMF forum could be merged into a CMS like Mambo or Xoops! where custom modules could be written to handle the project submissions and maintenance using a single username/password from the forum. This would require a test area on the server where everything is set up then the forum is merged into the new CMS.

For simplicity sake I think something along the lines of the "Custom Profile Field Mod" could be a quick and easy way to add project submissions into the SMF database. Add a custom search feature (so you can search via Cocktail/Upright/Jukebox etc) and image upload/browsing and that would be a good place to start.

[shock_]

This is all sounding rather exciting. 

@Neverending Project: 
Re Drupal config versus coding - at first glance a lot of the actual functionality could be done without coding (someone who knows how to configure Drupal would be good though) - except integration with SMF (and/or the Wiki), and HTML/CSS for theming, if it needed to look different to a standard / generic Drupal skin - but since SMF and Wiki are default skins I'm guessing this isn't too important.

I knew I should have shoved a relevant example in - but didn't have one to hand!  Here's one from a quick Google that seems similarish.  Swap "workout" for "cabinet" and use your imagination.

http://www.gimme20.com/

@headkaze:
I think there may be enough fields in the new schema that don't exist in the old that an automated database migration might only get us 20% of the way there, and might take you (or someone) more time to build than it's worth?  Especially given the opportunity for culling dead records which may have to be done manually.

@everyone:
The featureset for this app is starting to move forward quite rapidly.  Although I came out punching for Drupal initially, there are heaps of tools that can do the job, and some of those people here will have loads of experience with them - certainly not to be underestimated!

I think before this gets too much further progressed some organisation should occur -- who is going to condense and maintain the requirements list?  Who is going to architect the front- and back-ends?   And who is going to manage its completion? 

[Neverending Project]

OK, however this unfolds, it is clear that we need to start organizing some requirements - both as necessities and requests. Once we have a good understanding of what the majority of users expect to use this database for, we will have a better understanding of in which direction we need to go.

I will edit the initial post to start capturing some suggestions, and hopefully before long we will have a clear picture of the whole thing.

That being said and just so I understand, if we use a CMS like Drupal would each entry into the project database be an article, tagged with many keywords describing it's features? I am having a tough time picturing how something like Drupal will be used to capture all of the database fields we want to capture.

Also if we go down that road, somethine like Joomla may be a better fit since it already can incorporate SMF integration through an extension. Just one more thing to consider, I guess.

I will update the initial post (hopefully) later today.

[shock_]

I will edit the initial post to start capturing some suggestions, and hopefully before long we will have a clear picture of the whole thing.

That being said and just so I understand, if we use a CMS like Drupal would each entry into the project database be an article, tagged with many keywords describing it's features? I am having a tough time picturing how something like Drupal will be used to capture all of the database fields we want to capture.

Thanks for the requirements collation!

Drupal isn't a quick thing to explain, but no they wouldn't need to be articles.  Each cabinet would be a record containing a bunch of fields (In Drupal-speak, a CCK node).  Those fields could be boolean, multi-select, free text, images, etc. 

I could probably pull together a prototype / demo in about an hour but I don't have anywhere to host a Drupal install / db at the moment so screenshots would have to do. 

Joomla is definitely something worth progressing due to the SMF bridge (IMO a pretty crucial feature), and the experience of others here in using it.  I'm interested in assisting with the information design first-off in any case, irrespective of what software ends up being the right fit for the job!

[Agent Davis]

No coding experience but if you need help with something a non-programmer can do, I'd be happy to.

[ratzz]

I will edit the initial post to start capturing some suggestions, and hopefully before long we will have a clear picture of the whole thing.

That being said and just so I understand, if we use a CMS like Drupal would each entry into the project database be an article, tagged with many keywords describing it's features? I am having a tough time picturing how something like Drupal will be used to capture all of the database fields we want to capture.

Thanks for the requirements collation!

Drupal isn't a quick thing to explain, but no they wouldn't need to be articles.  Each cabinet would be a record containing a bunch of fields (In Drupal-speak, a CCK node).  Those fields could be boolean, multi-select, free text, images, etc. 

I could probably pull together a prototype / demo in about an hour but I don't have anywhere to host a Drupal install / db at the moment so screenshots would have to do. 

Joomla is definitely something worth progressing due to the SMF bridge (IMO a pretty crucial feature), and the experience of others here in using it.  I'm interested in assisting with the information design first-off in any case, irrespective of what software ends up being the right fit for the job!

Hi guys,

As previously mentioned, I'm happy to throw into the melting pot a free unlimited hosting package (platinum hosting) which includes all, and over a hundred more features mentioned here including Drupal.

See the website http://www.insidefocus.co.uk/hosting.html or see features at http://www.insidefocus.co.uk/hosting_0106.pdf -- although Drupal isn't mentioned as it's a little out of date.

If it helps its there, and if you need to get in touch to set it up either do so via the website or PM me.

HTH Ratzz 

[Neverending Project]

I will update the initial post (hopefully) later today.

Got busy today, requirements overview will have to begin tomorrow. 

[SavannahLion]

I got bored reading through most of the posts with the details. So please excuse me if I pick up on somethng already gone over.

Filtering searches or browsings (not enough sites allow filters on browsing their databases) based on percentage of the cab completed. Most of the time, I don't have very much interest in looking at cabs that are only modeled in some program.

An account system that allows me to generate a searchable "favorites" of cabs that are of particular interest to me along with a small notation system to remind myself why I like the cab. Kind of like "cabs I'm watching" kind of thing. moddb.com has a similar system, close but not quite perfect.

[Neverending Project]

Filtering searches or browsings (not enough sites allow filters on browsing their databases) based on percentage of the cab completed. Most of the time, I don't have very much interest in looking at cabs that are only modeled in some program.

An account system that allows me to generate a searchable "favorites" of cabs that are of particular interest to me along with a small notation system to remind myself why I like the cab. Kind of like "cabs I'm watching" kind of thing. moddb.com has a similar system, close but not quite perfect.

I like these ideas. It is exactly what i was thinking of.

Initial post has been updated. We are looking for thoughts on what fields should be captured.

[Jimbo]

OK looking at your initial list of requirements, at first glance I'd like to suggest the following:

Add fields:
 - name of cab
 - theme of cab?
 - project summary
 - date started
 - plans (sketchup/autocad/pen-and-paper/"by the book"/based-on/etc.)
 - Display Mounting Angle (e.g. 45 degrees)
 - BYOAC project thread (a link to)
 - total cost to make

Other stuff:
 - Front-End: I'd make that "multiple entries allowed"
 - % Complete:  10% increments is fine but you HAVE to have 99% in there!
 - CP Pics is cool, but what about "Cabinet pics"?
 - Display Type:  add "motorised rotating" as an option
 - Display: add dual-screen?
 - add "is touch screen" as another field for the display?
 - let users add tags to their cab (as I mentioned before).  I have a mysql db-schema and some queries for searching a database of tags and returning results in a sort of "relevance" order, gimme a shout if you want it.

Thats it for now!

[shock_]

Added thoughts within the quoted text in red underline

Type: [Upright, Cocktail, Cockpit, Jukebox, Bartop, Other]
I'd also think it useful to know if the cab followed a base reference design, eg. the ubiquitous Ms Pac cocktail or a Lusid. Because there are so many base models though this could be hard to manage as a controlled list.  Best handled by free text / tags perhaps?

The completion and phase fields can be captured a couple of different ways. We an have a field for the phase of construction:
Phase: [Planning/Design, Construction, Almost Complete, Complete, Sold, Re-design]
And another field for percent complete.
Complete: [0-100] in 10% increments
Would the percent complete reset for each phase? Should we skip the phase, and only offer a percentage?
I'd actually skip this percentage and leave the phase.  Far less subjective and probably more useful.

Front-End: [Mala, Mamewah, GameEx, etc.]
OS: [DOS, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, TinyXP, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Linux]
Emulator: [MAME, Daphne, Modeler, Nebula, Vantage, Zinc, etc.] multiple entries allowed
Again maintaining these lists into the future will be a chore for someone, as software changes.  Free text / tags?

Display Type: [Static, Rotating, ?]
Perhaps distinguish manual rotating versus motorised as was suggested by Jimbo. Two options for this field I think rather than another "type of rotation control" field.


Controls Table

Make: [Happs 8-way, Ultimarc 360, Logitech Driving Force Pro, I-Pac2, A-Pac, etc.]
See earlier comment about maintaining this list in the future.

Two other thoughts - this sort-of excludes cabs with ROM boards in them (eg 39-in-1).  Also, would be good to know what PC hardware is running under the hood.

I'd suggest in the Projects table:

Computer hardware: [Original arcade PCB, multi-game PCB, Desktop PC, laptop PC, Other]
and
PC CPU speed: [Below 100MHz (eg 486), 100MHz - 500MHz (eg Pentium II), 501MHz - 1500MHz (eg Pentium III), 1500MHz - 2400MHz (eg Athlon XP), Above 2400MHz]
Sorry I am not up with my CPU history so far better suggested ranges probably exist!

I'm assuming the builder of the cab will be referenced by login, or that should be mentioned somewhere too.

Aside from hosting pics of the cab, perhaps a file upload for plans too, to encourage this fine behaviour and as a more reliable host than the builder's ISP's webspace which is invariably what gets used.  Limit to zip, pdf, sketchup, AutoCAD, Word, JPG etc.

In terms of the UI, and assuming the SMF bridge, I think it would be handy to see up front the last time the builder logged in to BYOAC.  If they're still active, it's that much easier to pester them with questions for years after the build is complete 

[XyloSesame]

Sorry, been busy with Halloween, theatre, and getting a Dia de los Muertos altar together... I'm still very interested in the topic and helping in any way I can.

I love the direction this is going. First, I agree that Joomla would be a better road as it has proven integration with SMF. Drupal bridges are available, but they're only in beta stages; I'd rather not have this community as a guinea pig.

I think the table fields are nearing complete. I vote for killing the percent complete field as well, and agree with shock that it is too subjective. I'm afraid of using too many free-text fields as I would want to keep the filters/searches as clean as possible. In fact, as much as I like tagging and user-defined tags, I would vote to remove this ability in the interest of consistency. This would mean that the moderator(s) would need to update fields as new tech/soft/versions arrive, but that should be easier and more effective than policing user-entered fields... I can see a necessity for "Other," with a free-text entry field, but those should be kept to a minimum.

I would definitely like to see PC build. I think boardsets for originals/restos can be included in this area as well. I don't want these to be excluded, or the artisans to feel they're excluded, as I have gotten quite a bit of inspiration and information from restos.

Regarding the CMS - the Joomlahacks SMF Bridge should (hopefully) slipstream current BYOAC members' registrations into the newly formed Joomla CMS. If it works in this instance, all BYOAC users would authenticate to the Joomla system.

Edit: I'd also like to see this as a new topic so interested parties and/or new readers don't have to sift through the myriad of messages prior to everyone arriving at this point...

[SavannahLion]

I vote for killing the percent complete field as well, and agree with shock that it is too subjective.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with Shock on this one. While I'm sure that some phases (how are these phases defined again?) do come before others. I see a scenario where one owner may be working on building the CP as his first step and another might be working on his CP as the final step. The first cab is nowhere near completion while the latter is very nearly so.

If not percentages, then something to indicate how far along the project is so they can be properly sorted. I view and critique a (nearly) completed cabinet far differently than one in the planning stages or just starting out. For instance, I examine completed or near-complete cabs for ideas that have worked or not worked. How many grandiose projects stalled or were grossly scaled down at some point because the owner underestimated some part of the cab?

[Neverending Project]

Initial post updated again.

About the project phase and percentage: I think both should be included. Even though entering the percentage is a very subjective thing, we're not storing mission critical information here. If someone wants to leave their project at 99% for three years because they never got around to installing their dust washers, so be it. 

About the difficult to maintain lists: We could offer user-submitted entries. If you want to enter a value in a field that is not part of the list (e.g. the latest and greatest FE or CPU) perhaps you would select Other and type it in. If this is a custom DB, some scripts could flag this entry for mod approval, and hence added to a list. I'm not sure what options we have in Joomla/Drupal, but I am sure something can be worked out.

I agree that it is always better to use Select inputs over text box inputs. It makes for cleaner searching and more consistent data. If we allow a keywords (tags) field, this could cover uncommon circumstances.

[shock_]

 

About the project phase and percentage: I think both should be included. Even though entering the percentage is a very subjective thing, we're not storing mission critical information here. If someone wants to leave their project at 99% for three years because they never got around to installing their dust washers, so be it. 

 I just thought this was effectively covered in the field above it...  Phase: [Planning/Design, Construction, Almost Complete, Complete, Sold, Re-design]. 

About the difficult to maintain lists: We could offer user-submitted entries. If you want to enter a value in a field that is not part of the list (e.g. the latest and greatest FE or CPU) perhaps you would select Other and type it in. If this is a custom DB, some scripts could flag this entry for mod approval, and hence added to a list. I'm not sure what options we have in Joomla/Drupal, but I am sure something can be worked out.

Alternatively, the poster could be asked to post something in an appropriate forum asking for a new category.  If accepted, an admin can extend the db and the poster can go back and update their record.  Flagging for mod approval as you suggested could be workflow we dont need to build, and will need conflict resolution anyway (eg admin needs to change a record where someone has put "M.A.M.E." in the emulator "other" field, when really it should have been selected as the "MAME" option)

I don't know enough about the organisation/workflow for BYOAC; who would actually be maintaining this database ongoing into the future?

I agree that it is always better to use Select inputs over text box inputs. It makes for cleaner searching and more consistent data. If we allow a keywords (tags) field, this could cover uncommon circumstances.

Yes!  Someone definitely needs to be able to maintain this ongoing.  Do we have a candidate?


Are we almost at the stage where this thread should be moved to Wiki Discussion forum (since it's about replacing this part of Wiki) or do we not really care?

[Jimbo]

I'd just like to add I think monitor angle is important enough to warrant a field of its own... It seems cabs are often built around the chosen monitor type/size, and the mounting angle is a big factor here. My cab for example is having a 45 degree mount... it would have been great during research to see how others mounted theirs at that angle.

[kelemvor]

I also think that we don't need a percentage number and a description field for the status.  I think wording is better as long as it's specific enough.

Maybe something like:
Planning/Development
Purchasing Supplies
Construction Started
Construction well underway
Construction completed
Final touches underway
Cab Complete!

Personally I don't care if something was sold because that doesn't affect the building of the cab.  Having one for being Redesigned or Updated might work though.

Just my 2 cents.

[Neverending Project]

I want to pick back up on the discussions here. We are making good progress on identifying the table structure we will need, but I would like to explore our implementation options a bit more before having the full-blown discussion of what tools we will use for this database.

I have been looking at Joomla, but I am wondering what extension(s) I should look at to get the database implementation. Can anyone who has some Joomla experience point me in the right direction? I would like to take a look at how it is possible to implement the database, and the user-interface to creating and maintaining their projects. Thanks.

[bfauska]

Jumping in late in the game here, but I'd like to volunteer to help move some stuff from the old examples to the new if it needs to be done manually.  If we get the DB up and running we could have some people divide up the existing examples page into sections and work our way through, migrating any available information into the new DB.  There will likely be holes in the data, but if the creator of those cabs have a chance they can update as seen fit.  I suppose there would have to be some moderator level access to the entries and an owner level access as well, this way the DB can be filled out and then when the creator of the cabinet shows up and wants to update they can have access to their project.

This system sounds great.  I haven't ever looked into putting anything of mine into the examples system, because it seems like you need a project blog or the like to link to.  With this system it would be nice if the option was available for all the information to be hosted at the DB.

[Jimbo]

It's been a month, so thought I'd give this thread a bump.  Any progress?

[Neverending Project]

Well I have certainly not given up on this. I am not sure, however, what would be required to set this site up using Joomla to be able to tap into the SMF database here on Arcade Controls. So my plan is to build a stand-alone site and get some beta testers to iron out the wrinkles. It will be slow going though, especially with the holidays breathing down my throat.

Stay tuned, though. More news to follow.

[XyloSesame]

I'm still in for whatever I can do to help...

[baddog5]

If you're going to use Joomla and want to do database queries, look at a component called "Database Query".  There is a free version and a professional version with additional features.  It allows you to create custom queries on MySql tables.  It has a fairly steep learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty simple.  I've used it on a number of sites and might be able to assist if needed.

[Santoro]

Just found this thread, watching with interest. 

What would be cool would be a "cabfinder" feature, similar to what others have suggested.   You could check off certain features and the results would be filtered accordingly.  See the Phonescoop Phone finder for an example of how it could look. 

I recognize this is a major hunk of coding, and I have nothing to offer there.  But hey,  it's an idea.  I wonder if Phonescoop runs on off the shelf software?

[unclet]

Problems I have with the Examples page:

1) A lot of the links are dead.   If the cabinet creator submitted the images to Saint's server instead of just supplying links to their pictures, this would have been a lot better since the images would not get lost over the years as the links die.   Hopefully this new endeavor will make submitting images (instead of links) mandatory.

2) I must click on every link to see the type of cabinet (if the link is not dead as well).  Viewing a quick "main" cabinet picture as a thumbnail would be much better.

3) Having additional pictures of the building of the cabinet is most helpful, especially for first-time builders.    Again, adding all the build pictures to the site would be much better than relying on people's personal webpages to be maintained for many years.  I think this is what you are recommending take place now .... which I agree.... that would be much better.

Good luck with this ....

[emb]

This idea sounds great! I would also like to hop on this bandwagon. While I have no experience with joomla or drupal, I do have an extensive amount of experience in MySQL, PHP, Java, and C/C++ (along with custom framework desing) as I use it everyday at work. This would be the ultimate hobby project for me to participate in.

[kelemvor]

Somehow I lost my notification here so Just checking in.

Not sure on the current status but I'm hopefully getting my cab this week so I'll have a project with pics to submit sometime soon.

[shock_]

Boredom and a need to kick this thread has led me to build a prototype.

It's Drupal, and running on a free host so please expect the worst.

http://cabs.x10hosting.com/

I ended up leaving out the controls table, since it would be a pain to seed and maintain (see first post in this thread), and IMHO of questionable real value.

Have a play.  Register and add to it.

And sorry Danny Galaga, I just stole yours as another example cab.  The details are entirely guessed ! :0

[Neverending Project]

Thanks for picking this back up. Just yesterday in fact, I was thinking about this project. I do really want to see this through to completion, and hopefully this spring after things settle down a bit for me, I will jump right back on it.

This will be a good proving ground for interface concepts and database ideas. I will check it out.

[shock_]

Some of the tags aren't matching the right query, ad I'd restructure the controls part a bit more so they can be "advanced search"-able, but yeah.

A db like this is a good idea.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Just fyi, a couple of us got together and started adding thumbnails to the Wiki.
Since that seems to be the biggest complaint. We're also culling dead links, etc.

Check it out: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Cocktail_cabinets

I like the ambition behind the project mentioned in this thread, but I can't see an additional site being the solution. As I go through literally hundreds of other people's dead sites, one constant has always remained...and that's Arcadecontrols.com.

I think the Wiki is the answer, personally.

Each project page has the capability of having as much detail as any site I've visited. Just sayin'

[CheffoJeffo]

Just wanted to send out a  to Mr. C and crew ...

 

[unclet]

Good work .....

Hey, I added a picture of my Upright Cabinet (UncleTs Dads Arcade), but it does not show up as a thumbnail though .....  any ideas?

Also, I believe I added my jukebox to the Example pages (under "Jukebox" section) but it is not listed yet.  Does my jukebox have to be approved by Saint before it shows up?   

[headkaze]

Just fyi, a couple of us got together and started adding thumbnails to the Wiki.
Since that seems to be the biggest complaint. We're also culling dead links, etc.

Check it out: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Cocktail_cabinets

I like the ambition behind the project mentioned in this thread, but I can't see an additional site being the solution. As I go through literally hundreds of other people's dead sites, one constant has always remained...and that's Arcadecontrols.com.

I think the Wiki is the answer, personally.

Each project page has the capability of having as much detail as any site I've visited. Just sayin'

Great work 

Added my cab I agree now the Wiki is the way to go. Now if only we could make a "friendly" form for entering info in and generating a wiki page automatically. That would be nicer for alot of people I think. Is it easy to add in modules like this for the Wiki?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

unclet,

Good work .....

Hey, I added a picture of my Upright Cabinet (UncleTs Dads Arcade), but it does not show up as a thumbnail though .....  any ideas?

Also, I believe I added my jukebox to the Example pages (under "Jukebox" section) but it is not listed yet.  Does my jukebox have to be approved by Saint before it shows up?   

Any change, at this point, still needs to be added manually to the index page.
For example, to add your thumbnail, I added this line in the 'Upright Listing'. The thumbnail is showing now.

Added code:

Code: [Select]

* [[image:UncleTs_Dads_Arcade.jpg|68px]] [[UncleTs Dads Arcade]]To Page: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Upright_cabinets

For your Jukebox, you'd need to add your title to the index as well:

Need to add code:

Code: [Select]

* [[image:UncleTs_Jukebox.jpg|90px]] [[UncleTs Jukebox]]To Page: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Jukeboxes

Change 'UncleTs_Jukebox' to whatever your image name and page title is.


headkaze,

Added my cab I agree now the Wiki is the way to go. Now if only we could make a "friendly" form for entering info in and generating a wiki page automatically. That would be nicer for alot of people I think. Is it easy to add in modules like this for the Wiki?

This is definitely something the community should look into adding, going forward.   

[unclet]

Thanks!