BYOAC forum rules have been updated

[saint]

Items # 9 and 10 are new.

--- saint

[ChadTower]

Websense block them, but let me guess...

Is one of them "don't be pinballjim"?   

[saint]

9. BYOAC strives to be a MAME-friendly site. There's a page discussing BYOAC and MAME's relationship that you should read, but the short nutshell is that BYOAC will strive to honor MAMEDev wishes regarding distribution of MAME and derivatives thereof.

10. Generally annoying behavior. If you're following all the rules but are still managing through conduct or behavior to annoy a significant portion of the BYOAC membership to the point where the forum as a whole suffers, you will first be asked to modify your conduct and then will possibly be banned.

Stinking websense

[one2three]

Is one of them "don't be pinballjim"?   

Yep, that would be #10 "Generally annoying behavior"

[fatfingers]

Let's see...Websense blocks the rules post, but still lets you into the site to post?  Hmmm....

[shardian]

Rule 10 has been a long time coming. Picking around in good fun is one thing, but when every single post of a person is meant to attack, annoy, or upset someone, something needs to be done. Rule #1 pretty much says the same thing, but when certain people "interpret" the rules to justify their actions, it becomes necessary to "spell it out". Sad it comes to that really.

[ahofle]

Thank you saint. 
 

[saint]

The rules are actually hosted on the main site, not on the forum site.

[XyloSesame]

I don't know... that's a pretty loosey-goosey TOS you have there. I think it's up for interpretation. Maybe litigation. Or at least arbitration. I'm sure there's some sort of "ation" that could be had, anyway.

I sure don't want to be in violation of Sec. PBJ-010 of the Official BYOAC Rules and Regulations.

[shardian]

I don't know... that's a pretty loosey-goosey TOS you have there. I think it's up for interpretation. Maybe litigation. Or at least arbitration. I'm sure there's some sort of "ation" that could be had, anyway.

I sure don't want to be in violation of Sec. PBJ-010 of the Official BYOAC Rules and Regulations.

You'll have to take my word for it, but it takes ALOT to get banned around here.

And when it comes to arbitration, allow me to put words in Saints mouth:

This ain't burger king - you do it my way!

[shardian]

BTW Saint, was pbj's 24 hours of niceness prompted by a friendly warning? I got the feeling it was.

[XyloSesame]

You'll have to take my word for it, but it takes ALOT to get banned around here.

I don't need your word after watching PBJ for so long...

[shardian]

You'll have to take my word for it, but it takes ALOT to get banned around here.

I don't need your word after watching PBJ for so long...

Have you seen his work on other forums and newsgroups too?

[Kaytrim]

I know that these rules are generally common sense but can we get a sticky here with the rules?  This would be for people like PBJ and what's his name from a few months ago.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[brian_hoffman]

It has been an interesting day.

[XyloSesame]

Have you seen his work on other forums and newsgroups too?

I Googled Mr Jim a week or so ago, don't remember what prompted me. Really, in his defense, most posts were harmless jabs. Sometimes taken too far, mind you.

Rules are set for those who don't know when to pull back, and are a necessary evil in an inclusive community...

Lifted from the GameEx Forum

From: pinballjim
Subject: Sorry for all that trouble I wrought with my arcadecontrols thread

Really appreciate the patch I found here and was just hosting it there to make it easier for them to use it.

[SirPeale]

It has been an interesting day.

Banned for being named Brian Hoffman.

[brian_hoffman]

Thats harsh... That is my name... Ouch

[SirPeale]

[MKChamp]

BTW Saint, was pbj's 24 hours of niceness prompted by a friendly warning? I got the feeling it was.

I'm thinking it was more from an over-infated self worth...hence his post about it. Why start a thread saying you'll be nice?? I think he enjoyed and wanted the attention. I guarantee he wouldn't be that offensive in person...but the internet is a different world. I saw someone along time ago state it perfectly in one sentence...

"The internet is the only place a 15 year old kid can call me a ---smurf--- and get away with it"

[SirPeale]

I'm thinking it was more from an over-infated self worth...hence his post about it. Why start a thread saying you'll be nice?? I think he enjoyed and wanted the attention. I guarantee he wouldn't be that offensive in person...but the internet is a different world. I saw someone along time ago state it perfectly in one sentence...

Banned for agreeing with everyone else!!!!!

[brian_hoffman]

 
We are all banned....NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MKChamp]

I'm thinking it was more from an over-infated self worth...hence his post about it. Why start a thread saying you'll be nice?? I think he enjoyed and wanted the attention. I guarantee he wouldn't be that offensive in person...but the internet is a different world. I saw someone along time ago state it perfectly in one sentence...

Banned for agreeing with everyone else!!!!!

Oh...I meant to say, he was a perfect gentleman and all the other BYOAC'ers are wrong and arrogant...including Saint, NIVO and you and your ego!

Surely that doesn't fit the mold of everyone else. 

[NIVO]

mmmmmm Burger King..........tendercrisp chicken sandwich.

It does indeed take alot to get banned here, dont take my chicken sandwich! 

[saint]

I know that these rules are generally common sense but can we get a sticky here with the rules?  This would be for people like PBJ and what's his name from a few months ago.

TTFN
Kaytrim

It's right at the top above the Google Ad on the left

[WunderCade]

I think this new rule is a obvious "march to war" being promoted by neo-censors like Saint to justify an ill-gotten war on abrasive meat heads.

Mission accomplished! 

[FrizzleFried]

I think this new rule is a obvious "march to war" being promoted by neo-censors like Saint to justify an ill-gotten war on abrasive meat heads.

Mission accomplished! 

But Wunder...

....you're still here?!? 


 

[WunderCade]

But Wunder...

....you're still here?!? 


 

What...what...oh, you're right.......
"Jesus H. Christ I'm still here!" It was Joshua, he was just using the WOPR to play a game. Pfeww!

[genesim]

Rule #10 is pretty broad.

So in other words, if you disagree with a group of people, then you cannot discuss anymore??

i.e. the witch hunt mentality.

Your rules but that is an incredible flaw.

It doesn't encourage new ideas, it only enforces everyone to think like a bunch of androids.

If you are not breaking the rules like calling names and making personal attacks then one shouldn't be punished.   People get annoyed when they are wrong....a "mob" is no different.   As you will see with the responses to this very post. 

The "suffering" of the forum comes from not allowing people to express new ideas.   Namecalling should be reprimanded FIRST.    "Annoying" on the other hand comes mostly from people that have no skill in debate.   There is no reason to get angry over someone having a different view then yours.

[FrizzleFried]

Rule #10 is pretty broad.

So in other words, if you disagree with a group of people, then you cannot discuss anymore??

i.e. the witch hunt mentality.

Your rules but that is an incredible flaw.

It doesn't encourage new ideas, it only enforces everyone to think like a bunch of androids.

If you are not breaking the rules like calling names and making personal attacks then one shouldn't be punished.   People get annoyed when they are wrong....a "mob" is no different.   As you will see with the responses to this very post. 

The "suffering" of the forum comes from not allowing people to express new ideas.   Namecalling should be reprimanded FIRST.    "Annoying" on the other hand comes mostly from people that have no skill in debate.   There is no reason to get angry over someone having a different view then yours.

If you aren't being a ween,  you have nothing to worry about.

[Fozzy The Bear]

I've been reading the arguments in both directions..... and not commenting on them because I didn't want to get embroiled in the argument. BUT....

At the end of the day it's quite simple. I personally think it all boils down to some very simple facts.

1) Without the Mame Devs there would be no Mame to use at all... Therefore:

2) Regardless of whether they have a legal right or not to dictate how Mame is used we should respect their wishes. That should really never be open to debate.

3) If you want to alter Mame for your own personal use, there is nothing legally or morally wrong with that. Go ahead and do it!! Have a ball!!

4) However if you want to distribute those changes and the Devs don't agree with them, then you can't distribute them, end of story.

5) There is, however, nothing preventing you from telling other people how you altered it for your own use. It's up to them if they then want to do the same or not.

6) If you still want to distribute the changes and the Devs don't agree, then you can't do it here!!! Remember that this forum IS NOT a democracy. It belongs to Saint and he has a perfect right to say what you can and cannot do in here. If you don't like that then leave, or as in this case end up banned. Either temporarily or permanently.

I've Nothing else to say on this issue and It's time it was put to bed and we got back to playing games and building machines guys.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[genesim]

Frizzlefried....apples may be apples...oranges may be orange, but I must say that your avatar gives me a "ween" everytime!!   Damn she's nice looking.

[Kangum]

Frizzlefried....apples may be apples...oranges may be orange, but I must say that your avatar gives me a "ween" everytime!!   Damn she's nice looking.

i keep watching her to see if she really says sega or something else. if you watch it like 400 times it looks like she says shut up.

[saint]

Frizzlefried....apples may be apples...oranges may be orange, but I must say that your avatar gives me a "ween" everytime!!   Damn she's nice looking.

i keep watching her to see if she really says sega or something else. if you watch it like 400 times it looks like she says shut up.

I think she's saying "stop"

[saint]

Rule #10 is pretty broad.

So in other words, if you disagree with a group of people, then you cannot discuss anymore??

i.e. the witch hunt mentality.

Your rules but that is an incredible flaw.

It doesn't encourage new ideas, it only enforces everyone to think like a bunch of androids.

If you are not breaking the rules like calling names and making personal attacks then one shouldn't be punished.   People get annoyed when they are wrong....a "mob" is no different.   As you will see with the responses to this very post. 

The "suffering" of the forum comes from not allowing people to express new ideas.   Namecalling should be reprimanded FIRST.    "Annoying" on the other hand comes mostly from people that have no skill in debate.   There is no reason to get angry over someone having a different view then yours.

You can count the number of people I've banned (who weren't just spammers, of course) on one hand probably, certainly no more than 2. If you're reading that as "don't have a contrary opinion" then you're reading it wrong. This forum is full of contrary people

[shardian]

Rule #10 is pretty broad.

So in other words, if you disagree with a group of people, then you cannot discuss anymore??

i.e. the witch hunt mentality.

Your rules but that is an incredible flaw.

It doesn't encourage new ideas, it only enforces everyone to think like a bunch of androids.

If you are not breaking the rules like calling names and making personal attacks then one shouldn't be punished.   People get annoyed when they are wrong....a "mob" is no different.   As you will see with the responses to this very post. 

The "suffering" of the forum comes from not allowing people to express new ideas.   Namecalling should be reprimanded FIRST.    "Annoying" on the other hand comes mostly from people that have no skill in debate.   There is no reason to get angry over someone having a different view then yours.

Disagreeing is one thing, knowingly disagreeing just for the fun of it and to stir the pot is another. What was going on was very obvious in most of his posts - It is called baiting.

And yes, the rule is kind of generalized and open for interpretation. But don't worry, you won't be banned just for disagreeing on a subject in the minority - even if you are wrong . It's when you do it over and over and over for no real reason, then throw in some insults and such... that's when you're gone.

[fatfingers]

This forum is full of contrary people

I disagree with that!!!   

[lharles]

BYOAC rules, NOW with MORE numbers!

Not valid in all states.  Void where prohibited. 

[ChadTower]

Some may call rule 10 a flaw or too open for interpretation.

I see it as very, very clear.

The spirit of rule 10 is "I reserve the right to kick someone out for being too much of an a-hole.  What makes them an a-hole?  I decide.  My website, my spare time, my hosting cost, my decision."

He'd never say it that way but that's what it comes down to and I fully agree with it.

BTW, sounds like it has been a banner day for Peale.

[SirPeale]

I think this new rule is a obvious "march to war" being promoted by neo-censors like Saint to justify an ill-gotten war on abrasive meat heads.

Mission accomplished! 

But Wunder...

....you're still here?!? 


 

Not any more.  BANNED BECAUSE FRIZZLE SAID SO!!!!!!

[ChadTower]

The head nurse spoke up
said leave this one alone
she could tell right away
I was banned to the bone

[Kaytrim]

I know that these rules are generally common sense but can we get a sticky here with the rules?  This would be for people like PBJ and what's his name from a few months ago.

TTFN
Kaytrim

It's right at the top above the Google Ad on the left

Man don't I feel stupid.    Now that I look at them I remember reading them once before.  Of course I don't look at that bar too often unless I am looking for the Wiki.

TTFN

[tommy]

Rules? What are rules? I thought we just do whatever we like and if we happend to get banned we know we did something that was not right. 

[Kremmit]

Rule #10 is pretty broad.

So in other words, if you disagree with a group of people, then you cannot discuss anymore??

i.e. the witch hunt mentality.

Your rules but that is an incredible flaw.

It doesn't encourage new ideas, it only enforces everyone to think like a bunch of androids.

If you are not breaking the rules like calling names and making personal attacks then one shouldn't be punished.   People get annoyed when they are wrong....a "mob" is no different.   As you will see with the responses to this very post. 

The "suffering" of the forum comes from not allowing people to express new ideas.   Namecalling should be reprimanded FIRST.    "Annoying" on the other hand comes mostly from people that have no skill in debate.   There is no reason to get angry over someone having a different view then yours.

No set of written rules can be perfect.  People always find a way to conform to the letter of the law while violating the spirit- just look at pinballjim's little escapade yesterday.  People in power can always find a way to abuse a law and make it do things it wasn't intended for- for example, the scenario you outlined above, where the mods would censor somebody just for disagreeing with popular opinion.  You can re-write the laws, add more, and clarify all you like, but human beings seem to be endlessly inventive in finding ways to subvert those rules.

All anyone needs to do is look at the rules.  Figure out what the spirit of the law is, and abide by that without looking for loopholes in the letter of the law.  Anybody that can't manage that... well, we won't be seeing them for 30 days, will we? 

[Circo]

Rules or no rules, in a ban situation warnings are coming at you fast and furious before it actually happens.  In the case of PBJ everyone got his point 15 posts or so before it was stopped.  In addition to that, since the author of the patch, Brian was in no way trying to break any rules, laws, whatever and had no problem with the patch being taken down why does anyone else need to pick up the fight to the extent that it was taken?  Being an ass just for the sake of being an ass.... 

Anyway at first I was bummed that it was such a big deal, but it's really not, and the thread that brought on the additional rules was uncomfortable to say the least.  Huge props to the mamedevs, btw.

[genesim]

Well, I must say that my impression of the board has been over all POSITIVE!

Great people here, and tons of great advice.

I have been a lurker for many years, but when I see some of the pure genious on here I want to gush and gush.

We have all been on crappy boards where moderators are just complete asses, and from what I have seen here, I can't help but comment that there seems to be patience and strong reprimand when there is needed.

Keep up the good work, and I feel honored to be a part of this community.   I miss mame.net, but I am glad there is a great alternative.

Sorry to bump, but I have been away and I just had to send it one more time!

[SirPeale]

Well, I must say that my impression of the board has been over all POSITIVE!

Banned for being in a good mood.