Help designing first control panel

[bluevolume]

I've been searching for design ideas for my control panel, but I still have some questions.  I'm confused on buttons, and how to include a 4-way joystick.  This will be part of the "Hit The Mame" project I have listed in the projects board.

With the 7 button layout, does the 7th button essentially become button 1 for all games?  Or would I need to reconfigure all my neo-geo games to use b7 as b1?  Also, if you only have 6 buttons, would button 1 be on the top row or bottom row?

If I include a 4-way joystick on this 2 player control panel, do I simply wire the stick and its buttons to the same terminals as joystick 1?

Here's the games I will be playing, and hoping that my control panel will support:
MK 1,2,3; Altered Beast, Galaga, Bubble Bobble, Ms. PacMan, Metal Slug series, Golden Tee series.  I'm sure there will be others once I get the cabinet finished and realize what's all there.

Attached is a simple design i came up with using the template I downloaded here.  Its a zip since I can't attach a VSD.

[xmenxmen]

The 7th button, it all depends on what you set the default config to be.  If you set the bottom 4 button as 1 to 4, then you will only have to re-config games with more than 4 button like street fighter. 

On the 4 way, most (me guessing) set it up as setup input and just remap the button to games that uses 4way.  But yes, you can also wire them together if you like. 

I would really consider moving the 4way more to the left so when you won't be hitting it so easily.  That goes for the mouse buttons too.

The exit and pause button is at an odd place and will like get hit accidentally during gameplay.  I guess moving it somewhere else.

[Malenko]

you can wire the 4 way to the same cherries on the P1 8 way but both sticks will be active (ie if you're playing me in Mortal kombat and I start moving the 4 way stick around, I will be able to control your guy)


on my 7 button layout the buttons work like this:

  123
  456
 7

Most people who have standard SF layouts have the buttons as the same numbers as above, but without button 7 being there

Since I use an IPAC2 for the encoder buttons 1 2 and 3 are buttons 1 2 and 3 for everything, I manually set up the neo geo games to use 7456 as ABCD and I set up NBA jam and NHL Open Ice to use 745 as turbo shoot and pass.

I dont have or use a 4 way stick, as much as I'd love to have one my panel just doesnt have that sorta room (same goes for a trackball), I just use the 8 way stick and do my best, I can play pac man, frogger and galaga pretty well considering its an 8 way. I have no problems playing any of the MKs with the 7 button layout (button 7 makes a great run button, but Im sure I already told ya that) and the 7456 make the perfect Neo Geo layout.

The best thing about this hobby is you control everything if you want you control panel laid out like this:

 714
 265
3

you can, all you have to do is configure MAME to your liking.  I hope I answered your question, and if you have anymore fire away. BTW I love my IPAC2, you can hold start and push down to pause games, so that eliminated the need for a dedicated pause button, for me at least.

[bluevolume]

The exit and pause button is at an odd place and will like get hit accidentally during gameplay.  I guess moving it somewhere else.

I just dragged those two off of the panel; they will actually be going on a piece of wood I'm mounting at the bottom of the monitor bezel.

[bluevolume]

How about this one?

[javeryh]

You don't need dedicated mouse buttons - you can configure the other buttons on the panel for that.  Looks pretty good otherwise although I might get rid of one of the buttons in your group of three next to the 4-way on the top - not many 4-way games use 3 buttons but I'm sure someone will post some "definitive" game that you need the extra button for....   

[Lakersfan]

Heck, I'm really new at this. But with all I've read lately, I'm going for the U360 joysticks and not bothering with the 4-way on my CP. They're a bit pricey, but then again I'll have less clutter and one less joystick to buy.

[bluevolume]

Here's an updated version with a focus on the Neo-Geo games.  The colors are closer to what I'm thinking.

[xmenxmen]

Looks much better and nothing too in the way.  One other concern as the layout is very similar to mine, I am left handed and quite a few times hit the 4way when playing bowling.  If I ever re-do the cp, I will definitely move it more toward the left.

Other than that, it looks great.

On another note, if you move the coin up to the other panel, might want to consider the player button too?

[ARTIFACT]

i love my u360, performs well in all modes
good choice

good luck with your cp!

[Katana Man]

One thing to consider, I've never seen any 6 button arcades where the joystick was below the middle point of the buttons.  Most are at the middle point or even higher with the top row of buttons.   Since I was a big Street Fighter player, I made mine match the top row since most Street Fighters were this way.

[bluevolume]

Here's my latest design.  I think I'm pretty close.

[Kajoq]

Looking pretty good, I think you'll like the ergonomic layout

[Malenko]

looks pretty good, I personally dont like the "ergonomic arc" in buttons , but its what you like better that matters. it honestly is leaps and bounds better then the first try, and isn't 6 foot wide like some peoples panels

[bluevolume]

looks pretty good, I personally dont like the "ergonomic arc" in buttons , but its what you like better that matters. it honestly is leaps and bounds better then the first try, and isn't 6 foot wide like some peoples panels

(Actually, this is the REAL panel I'm building.  I just didn't want anyone to know.)

[Kaytrim]

Sorry to be a little late to the party and I don't know if this has been said.  If you get into bowling games or Golden Tee you are going to want a different place for that 4-way stick.  That is a finger jammer for sure.

If you take the pause and exit buttons and move them to the player two side then you can slide the 4-way over out of the way of the trackball

TTFN and Have Fun with the build,
Kaytrim

[bluevolume]

Sorry to be a little late to the party and I don't know if this has been said.  If you get into bowling games or Golden Tee you are going to want a different place for that 4-way stick.  That is a finger jammer for sure.

If you take the pause and exit buttons and move them to the player two side then you can slide the 4-way over out of the way of the trackball

TTFN and Have Fun with the build,
Kaytrim

The 4-way has been a challenge for sure.  I was trying to move it so it wasn't above the P1 buttons, short people would have a hard time playing without hitting the buttons with their arm.  Can you point me at an example?

[Kaytrim]

I was trying to move it so it wasn't above the P1 buttons, short people would have a hard time playing without hitting the buttons with their arm. 

Interesting point there.  Just build a matching step stool.

[XyloSesame]

That is a finger jammer for sure.

The 4-way has been a challenge for sure. I was trying to move it so it wasn't above the P1 buttons, short people would have a hard time playing without hitting the buttons with their arm. Can you point me at an example?

I've been struggling with this as well, the dedicated 4-way and spinners above the joys and trackball. I've tried to compare all of the CPs I could find, but am still having trouble. I don't think there is a good answer for us outside of making mock-ups as soon as you have parts and controllers.

I've been using Sketchup to help approximate the "real" layout as I'm slowly accumulating all of my pieces...

[bluevolume]

OK, so I decided to take this design into the real world and see how it held up.  Me and a couple friends went to our favorite sports bar and I bought a printout of this control panel with me.  I actually layed the print down over the Golden Tee that they had there, and it became apparent that the 4-way joystick was not going to work.  I'd never really played Golden Tee that much, and to see what some of these guys were doing, I saw very quickly that fingers would get smashed with that joystick there.

It was $5 Yuengling pitchers tonight; so this night worked out well all around.  Attached is my design changes that resulted.  There is a dotted "V" above the trackball now, this is a marker to show where hands could be flying when playing Golden Tee.

[XyloSesame]

I'd never really played Golden Tee that much, and to see what some of these guys were doing, I saw very quickly that fingers would get smashed with that joystick there.

Crap, I've never played GT that much either. Thanks for the real-world info...

The dimensioned layout is really shaping up - are you planning on building a mock?

[Lakersfan]

Nice work, blue! I'm thinking of stealing your style, with the exception of the 4-way joystick (don't want it). I've never played GT either but the way everyone talks about it here, I'm sure I'll get hooked once I try it.

[bluevolume]

I'd never really played Golden Tee that much, and to see what some of these guys were doing, I saw very quickly that fingers would get smashed with that joystick there.

Crap, I've never played GT that much either. Thanks for the real-world info...

The dimensioned layout is really shaping up - are you planning on building a mock?

I probably will go ahead and order my joysticks and buttons, and mock it up with cardboard.  I'm not sure about the pause and exit buttons, they may need to be moved.  The exit button for sure, needs to be somewhere where it won't get hit accidentally.

Golden Tee is great if you have a few people playing.  I doubt I'd play it by myself very much, but it is really good with a few friends and some beers.

[Kaytrim]

Now that I see the layout on 'paper' I can see that the buttons may get accidentally pressed while playing.  And the joystick can still grab a thumb if the player is not careful.  That is the problem when you throw GT into the mix.  Nothing above the trackball is safe.  You could recess those two buttons so hitting them is less of an issue.

I am assuming that you are using 5/8" or 3/4" MDF or plywood for the top.  If that is the case you can use a Forster bit and drill a recess for them.  That way they are out of the way to some extent and out of the reach of some small watchers who will want to press buttons to join the fun.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[XyloSesame]

I probably will go ahead and order my joysticks and buttons, and mock it up with cardboard.

Please post pics and progress on the mock...

If that is the case you can use a Forster bit and drill a recess for them.  That way they are out of the way to some extent and out of the reach of some small watchers who will want to press buttons to join the fun.

Oooo recessed buttons! I've never thought of that... Do you happen to know of a CP shot that uses this? There's about a .15 rounded bezel on most buttons; how would that look when recessed?

[bluevolume]

I think I've minimized the joystick problem.  Any of the hard shots are going to be straight ahead, given that you can "turn" the golfer before your drive.  The angled shots are going to be more precise and you hand should travel off of the trackball very far.

I'm going to reposition the admin buttons.  Look for a 1.6 design later today.

[Kaytrim]

If that is the case you can use a Forster bit and drill a recess for them.  That way they are out of the way to some extent and out of the reach of some small watchers who will want to press buttons to join the fun.

Oooo recessed buttons! I've never thought of that... Do you happen to know of a CP shot that uses this? There's about a .15 rounded bezel on most buttons; how would that look when recessed?

Follow the link in my sig to my Kustom Sticks and you will see some recessed buttons on the face of the boxes.

[XyloSesame]

Follow the link in my sig to my Kustom Sticks and you will see some recessed buttons on the face of the boxes.

Thanks for the heads-up, Kaytrim. I've actually followed the Kustom thread pretty closely, but was always so taken with the artwork, polishes, and layouts, I never noticed the recessed buttons on the front...

[u_rebelscum]

One thing to consider, I've never seen any 6 button arcades where the joystick was below the middle point of the buttons.  Most are at the middle point or even higher with the top row of buttons.   Since I was a big Street Fighter player, I made mine match the top row since most Street Fighters were this way.

I have to disagree with the "most common SF button/joystick location", partially.

- Dedicated SF panels had the joy midway between the buttons. 
- The template and CPO that came with kits had the same mid position. 
- However, a lot of cabs were converted.  Many of CPs that were converted had 2-3 buttons already drilled, and usually they were level with the joystick; with these CPs buttons 4-6 were just added below the holes already in the panel.

So if most of the cabs in your area had converted CPs, okay, your statement about SF could be true in your area.  However, "real" (aka dedicated ) SF CPs had the joy in the mid position.


My biggest problem with the hotrod and x-arcade (not the tank model) CPs are that the joy is level with the top buttons.  It puts the lower buttons far too low to me.  [shrug] Just my opinion, though.

Sorry for the OT (and late at that) post.

[leapinlew]

I think I've minimized the joystick problem.  Any of the hard shots are going to be straight ahead, given that you can "turn" the golfer before your drive.  The angled shots are going to be more precise and you hand should travel off of the trackball very far.

I'm going to reposition the admin buttons.  Look for a 1.6 design later today.

Most of our injuries occur with World Class Bowling where people crank the ball at an angle for the hook. I've had several people (mainly the guys) slam their hand on the 2nd player joystick, people hit the dedicated pause and quit buttons all the time and 1 guy managed to hit the speaker grill so hard it drew blood. I would change my CP by putting the trackball further up on the CP, have nothing (even buttons) anywhere in front of the trackball and allowing more space between the joystick and the ball.

[bluevolume]

Here's today's update.  I moved the admin buttons out, and have pretty much cleared the path in front of the trackball.  I also updated the shapes of the admin buttons to reflect the illuminated buttons I'll actually use (didnt' update the part numbers though).  And I updated the labels on the joys.

[RobotronNut]

sorry i'm a little late to the discussion here...

i like your careful thinking about all this.

one thing that is very important to me, which i don't often hear talked about, is where you stand when you're playing any given game. i planned my panel so that a single user is almost always centered.

on your panel, you'll be centered when playing trackball and 8-way games (use left-hand stick and right-hand buttons; works great), but a right-handed person will be standing over to the left when playing 4-way games. if 4-ways are not high priority to you, or you don't mind standing off-center, then what you have is fine.

if you want to allow right-handers to be centered playing 4-ways, you could:

• move the 4-way to the far upper right (and optionally add a spinner in the upper left), or
• keep it where it is (for leftys) and add a second 4-way in the upper right, wired in parallel.

btw, i would lose the 3-button arc above the right-hand joystick. you won't be able to use them without hitting the joystick, and you don't need them anyway. your panel is small enough, that anything you could have done with those 3 buttons could be done just as well with the buttons in the right-hand fighter group.

[bluevolume]

Thanks for your input.  You're right about the 3 buttons for the 4-way, they would be obstructed by the joystick directly below them.  But using the buttons for the 2nd player won't work for me, it just feels to awkward.

What I did was lose the 3rd button (from what people have said there aren't any 4-way games with three buttons anyway), and move the remaining two to the left.  And I have now made these mouse buttons, instead of mirroring the P1 buttons.  I was looking for a mouse button solution, and I think this is a good one.  I will just re-map my 4-way games to use the mouse buttons.

[bluevolume]

Posting my final design, this is the one that's going to production.  Some minor changes, like making sure everything was lined up exactly.  I also took the "curve" out of the button layout.  After a lot of thought I decided that it could get confusing, especially if you are used to just using one or two fingers to hit all the buttons.

This panel is going into my project SABRECADE.  You can follow the progress here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=70295.0