Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[Ummon]

Catalyst 6.5 ( http://files.arianchen.de/drivers/6-5_xp-2k_dd_32464.exe )

This seems to be the default driver set for cards before R3.

[Beretta]

ok so i stumble across some weird looking cables, one end has s-vid/composite the other vga connector.

it does'nt look to have any hardware in between.. so it looks like a purely electrical conversion here.

further more the composite has white and red as well should signifies left/right audio usually.

some people report it working others not.. i did'nt even think such a connection was possible.

the question is, what the hell are these cables? is it even possible to get a proper electrical connection with these? if so would soft-15khz work to put out a usable signal?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9813
here's one that does'nt have the white/red rca plugs.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10281
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4667
similar on other sites like amazon with same mix reviews: http://www.amazon.com/EFORCITY-VGA-S-Video-RCA-Adaptor/dp/B000P3UB24

[KissMyWookie]

ok so i stumble across some weird looking cables, one end has s-vid/composite the other vga connector.

it does'nt look to have any hardware in between.. so it looks like a purely electrical conversion here.

further more the composite has white and red as well should signifies left/right audio usually.

some people report it working others not.. i did'nt even think such a connection was possible.

the question is, what the hell are these cables? is it even possible to get a proper electrical connection with these? if so would soft-15khz work to put out a usable signal?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9813
here's one that does'nt have the white/red rca plugs.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10281
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4667
similar on other sites like amazon with same mix reviews: http://www.amazon.com/EFORCITY-VGA-S-Video-RCA-Adaptor/dp/B000P3UB24

Those cables are purely adapters (special vga pins to composite/s-video/audio) designed to work only on compatible video cards. Though it would be helpful if the site said what video cards they were compatible with.

Steve

[Beretta]

oh what a pitty, i figured it was to good to be true. 

[SailorSat]

Actually those cables most likely are NOT for video cards, but for video projectors, which use them as input.

The only cards I know that output Composite Video/S-Video on the VGA Port are Matrox G450.

[Ummon]

Actually those cables most likely are NOT for video cards, but for video projectors, which use them as input.

The only cards I know that output Composite Video/S-Video on the VGA Port are Matrox G450.

This makes sense. Although it's possible one might use the cable above, the requirement being to send the right signal.

[xxkodemanxx]

hello.

I have these 2 video cards available to put into my Arcade PC and was curious which would be best recommended using your software.
Im playing MAME..also NES SNES and a DREAMCAST emulator.

i also don't have a j-pac. not sure if that is a problem or not.

here are the two cards:

XFX GeForce 8500 GT Graphics adapter - 512 MB - DDR2 SDRAM *my newer one*
and
ATI Radeon X1300 Pro 256MB

both are PCI-e

thanks!

[SailorSat]

The 8500GT most likely will need a EDID-Dongle.
I'd go for the x1300.

[djbubba2002]

i think i got mine workin ... thanks for all of the help .. i got one ?

What is install 25khz and 30 khz for ... i only install 15khz on my UMK3 mach... pic is good ... is there a setting for diff games ... like would like to know ... and how can i set up the joystick ..  when i set it up to mame.... then when i set up snes and nes .. then my mame joysticks anit working , like block and run ... i am missing somethign ..

thanks

[SailorSat]

What is install 25khz and 30 khz for ...

Duo/Tripple/Multi-Sync Monitors that support additional resolutions.

and how can i set up the joystick ..  when i set it up to mame.... then when i set up snes and nes .. then my mame joysticks anit working , like block and run ...

That's gettin off-topic

Depends on the joystick.
For a Keyboard encoder (I-PAC, J-PAC etc.) you'd most likely open notepad and check if every button is working.
For "GamePad" devices (USB Joystick, A-PAC etc.) you'd open the GameController Config in the window control panel and check it there.

Usually youonly configuure every emulator once to match your joystick.

I think you should open a new topic with details on your setup if you need addition help with the joysticks.

[djbubba2002]

sorry SailorSat, i was gettin head of my self ....
what do you mean multi-sync?

Monitor
well-G 2k7193 something like that


On my J-pac when i turn it all on .. i have a orange,green and green light on.... is that good ...with no buzzzy sound .. i only here buzzy when the orange light is on .. when the green turns on ... it goes off.. i have three lights on, i just want to know if that is good ?   If not how can i fix it ?

[SailorSat]

Your Wells-Gardner most likely is a "Standard Res" monitor so just stay with the 15kHz modes.

There are monitors out there that support two (hence "DualSync") frequencies (15kHz and 25kHz) and even other monitors suport three ("TriSync") frequencies  (15, 25 and 31kHz).

The difference between a TriSync monitor and a real Multisync Monitor is simple.
TriSyncs will support three frequency ranges, 15.5-16.5kHz, 24.5-25.5 kHz and say 31.0-32.0kHz.
MultiSyncs support ONE frequency range from 15.5-31.5kHz including everything in between.

[vet300]

Hi SailorSat,
I'm having issues with soft 15khz on my Nvidia GForce4 Ti4200 card. Have version 93.71 forceware installed.  Works fine on the desktop, but when I go into MAME I get some pulsating distortion only on the bottom half of the screen, and more when the screen is "busy" like with Robotron, or the intro screen to Ms. Pacman.  When I bring up Ms. Pacman, I get the distortion bowing to the right at the bottom of the screen, and it's pulsitile like it's going along with the scanlines, but when I start the game, the board is fine, all is normal.  I get similar effect when I pull up the test grid for Soft 15khz.  The first block grid is almost normal with slight bowing at the bottom, but the second grid with the circles has the pulsitile bowing when I bring it up.  I have 2 other computers, one with an Arcade VGA card, the other with an ATI Radeon card and soft 15Khz, and both work fine with no problems, so it can't be the monitor.
Do you think the drivers are too new for this card or what? 
Thanks for your time,
Sean

[SailorSat]

Phew... Guess I need a new glass orb after all

Well as it seems to basically work in the first place I'm pretty clueless what causes the problem.

For reference a photo would be nice, but most likely I can't help you with that issue without having that card on my desk, and shipin it here would be more expensive than looking for another card.

[KissMyWookie]

I've finally got some good news for ATI users of Soft-15KHz...

When I switched from an nVidia card to an ATI Radeon HD 4550, I found that the "perfect" 320x224@59.185... Neo-Geo mode was no longer perfect. It had bars top and bottom, whereas on my old GeForce 6800GT it filled the entire screen.

I suspected a driver problem, so spent about 35+ hours trying to get AdvanceMame's video mode tool (ADVV) working under Linux - only to find out (by reading the source code) that note of the ATI Radeon HD's are supported by the Linux console frame buffer driver (radeonfb). What a waste of time!

After that disappointment, I tried tweaking the modelines file > reinstalling them with Soft-15KHz > rebooting > testing the mode.  This was performed about 20 times, adjusting the "vertical total lines"by 1 row at a time and seeing no change, until at one point the picture height jumped and suddenly it was too tall.

By experimenting, I'd found that the ATI Catalyst driver v9.6 (and below) was rounding-up the modeline's "vertical lines total" to the next value divisible-by-8. From what I had read, this was incorrect and rounding-to-8 should only be done on the horizontal width and horizontal total. So, I reported my findings to ATI/AMD around 2 weeks ago.

This morning I installed the latest Catalyst v9.7 driver and had my fingers crossed. There was no mention of that particular bug being fixed in the release notes, but after reinstalling the Soft-15KHz modes and rebooting, I found that my Neo-Geo mode was working correctly! (All I had to do was shift it horizontally a few pixels, so that it lined up correctly with the default 320x240 mode).

I'm really pleased about this and just wanted to share the good news 

Steve

[alui]

What 320x224@59.185 modeline are you using that's working with the new 9.7 driver?  I think I might have the same problem as you ...

Thanks.

I've finally got some good news for ATI users of Soft-15KHz...

When I switched from an nVidia card to an ATI Radeon HD 4550, I found that the "perfect" 320x224@59.185... Neo-Geo mode was no longer perfect. It had bars top and bottom, whereas on my old GeForce 6800GT it filled the entire screen.

I suspected a driver problem, so spent about 35+ hours trying to get AdvanceMame's video mode tool (ADVV) working under Linux - only to find out (by reading the source code) that note of the ATI Radeon HD's are supported by the Linux console frame buffer driver (radeonfb). What a waste of time!

After that disappointment, I tried tweaking the modelines file > reinstalling them with Soft-15KHz > rebooting > testing the mode.  This was performed about 20 times, adjusting the "vertical total lines"by 1 row at a time and seeing no change, until at one point the picture height jumped and suddenly it was too tall.

By experimenting, I'd found that the ATI Catalyst driver v9.6 (and below) was rounding-up the modeline's "vertical lines total" to the next value divisible-by-8. From what I had read, this was incorrect and rounding-to-8 should only be done on the horizontal width and horizontal total. So, I reported my findings to ATI/AMD around 2 weeks ago.

This morning I installed the latest Catalyst v9.7 driver and had my fingers crossed. There was no mention of that particular bug being fixed in the release notes, but after reinstalling the Soft-15KHz modes and rebooting, I found that my Neo-Geo mode was working correctly! (All I had to do was shift it horizontally a few pixels, so that it lined up correctly with the default 320x240 mode).

I'm really pleased about this and just wanted to share the good news 

Steve

[KissMyWookie]

What 320x224@59.185 modeline are you using that's working with the new 9.7 driver?  I think I might have the same problem as you ...

Thanks.

Soft-15KHz does not have a 320x224 modeline by default - I made my own and added it to my custom user modes.

This one lined up precisely with SailorSat's 320x240 mode, using my old nVidia 6800GT card:

Code: [Select]

Modeline "320x224_NeoGeo (59.185606Hz)" 6.1231 320 344 392 424 224 225 227 244 -hsync -vsync
Under Catalyst 9.7 and my new Radeon HD 4550, I had to shift it to the right a bit to line up better:

Code: [Select]

Modeline "320x224_NeoGeo (59.185606Hz)" 6.1231 320 351 399 424 224 225 227 244 -hsync -vsync
With the ATI card output, it looks a couple of pixel rows taller than it did on the nVidia card, so I might fix that some time, but I'm happy with it for now.

Steve

PS: You might have to force MAME to use that resolution - which is easy under MAMEUI. In the "Screen" tab, set Screen to "\\.\DISPLAY1" or "\\.\DISPLAY2" (there's a bug that -on my computer- only shows some of the resolutions under one and more resolutions under the other). Then set Resolution Size to "320x224".

[KissMyWookie]

SailorSat - I've found something interesting... not sure if it only applies to Catalyst 9.7 drivers or before.

I have a Radeon HD 4550 card running the latest Catalyst 9.7 drivers on Windows XP 32-bit.
Tonight I realized that I can open my usermodes.txt file and make changes, then open Soft15KHz->"Uninstall"->"Install User"->Close Soft15KHz. Then when I open a game (with the mode I made changes to) in MameUI, the resolution/timings I see are the ones I just installed (without rebooting)

I'm not sure if it's me, but it didn't seem to work 100% of the time. One important thing seems to be closing Soft15KHz after uninstalling->installing user modes.

This is going to save me a hell of a lot of time tweaking modes, as hopefully I won't have to reboot nearly as much. It could also make it a lot easier for you, if you wanted to add a mode adjusting feature to Soft15KHz at some time in the future.

On another point, something I have noticed that may cause driver problems, is that Soft15KHz restores the old registry backup if the graphics card drivers are updated - I found this because the information panel was saying that "Display 0" had Catalyst 9.6 drivers, while "Display 1" said the correct 9.7. Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.

Also, I've been meaning to ask how your program handles white-space or commenting in the user files. (ie: "#" or "//"  single line comments, or  "/*" and "*/" C style block commenting.) Can I put a comment after a modeline instead of at the beginning of a line?

One last thing, how many decimal places should I put for pixel-clock MHz rates? I'm sure there must be a limit, but didn't see it listed anywhere.

Steve 

[SailorSat]

SailorSat - I've found something interesting... not sure if it only applies to Catalyst 9.7 drivers or before.
Tonight I realized that I can open my usermodes.txt file and make changes, then open Soft15KHz->"Uninstall"->"Install User"->Close Soft15KHz. Then when I open a game (with the mode I made changes to) in MameUI, the resolution/timings I see are the ones I just installed (without rebooting)

There actually has to be a way to "force" reloading of the resolutions in a more "global" way.
Though in your case that really should save some time.

On another point, something I have noticed that may cause driver problems, is that Soft15KHz restores the old registry backup if the graphics card drivers are updated

You shouldn't update the drivers while Soft-15kHz is installed as new drivers may also change some values that could force your card back into 31kHz mode.

Also, I've been meaning to ask how your program handles white-space or commenting in the user files

Actually it doesn't... I only check each line for the first parameter being "modeline" or "remove".
You should be able to write comments behind each line, but have at least one "space" before starting your comments.

One last thing, how many decimal places should I put for pixel-clock MHz rates?

Theoretically theres no limit as in most calculations I use "Single" precision values which is most likely more than we need.

However the limit is driver sides:

- 3Dfx, ATI and NVidia use steps of 10kHz so 0.01 would be your lowest possible value.

- Matrox and Intel drivers (both EGD and GMA) use steps of 1kHz allowing for 0.001 values.

[Ummon]

On another point, something I have noticed that may cause driver problems, is that Soft15KHz restores the old registry backup if the graphics card drivers are updated - I found this because the information panel was saying that "Display 0" had Catalyst 9.6 drivers, while "Display 1" said the correct 9.7. Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry...

Yeah, I've run into trouble with that and now habitually delete those files.

[krick]

Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.

What key would that be?  I think that would be useful to have in my arsenal.

[Ummon]

Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.

What key would that be?  I think that would be useful to have in my arsenal.

They're the little 'key' files that are created in the soft15 folder.

[KissMyWookie]

Fortunately, with the ATI drivers, if I delete the entire registry key and reboot, the driver will recreate a new set of defaults in the registry - which is easier than removing and reinstalling the drivers if something gets screwed up.

What key would that be?  I think that would be useful to have in my arsenal.

They're the little 'key' files that are created in the soft15 folder.

They're just backups from the registry.

The actual registry key locations can be found in those files though. The newer Catalyst drivers store their settings under like HKLM\system\CurrentControlSet\Services\ati2mtag.

Don't go messing around with the registry unless you know what you're doing though - or can recover from a recent backup - as it's easy to make your system non-bootable.

Steve

[KissMyWookie]

SailorSat - I've found a bug in Soft-15kHz that makes it crash on starting, if I have certain comments in my UserModes.txt file.

If I have the following anwhere in my UserModes.txt file, Soft-15kHz crashes as the program is launched:

# The mode's settings were ... blah blah blah

I tracked it down from a bunch of comments and it has something to do with the single quote (apostrophe) - either by itself or possibly with the letters around it.

The error is:

Run-time error '5': Invalid procedure call or argument

I know you could say "don't use comments in the file", but with the size that my UserModes file is getting, it would be really useful to be able to put comments in it.

Steve

[SailorSat]

I think I know why the crash happens.
Try placing a SECOND ' in the comment line.

Guess I should rewrite that routines anyway

[KissMyWookie]

I think I know why the crash happens.
Try placing a SECOND ' in the comment line.

Guess I should rewrite that routines anyway

Thank you.
Much appreciated! 

PS: The second apostrophe allowed Soft-15kHz to process the UserModes.txt file and start properly.

[Ummon]

Advancemame rc files can get pretty extensive, too. Not all the same stuff, but parts, like mode and clock data for various games, can be so I just space sections out. Also, I use wordpad, which automatically goes full screen on open every time, and you can actually use the scroll wheel-drag thing. Notepad is fine for small stuff, but a pain in the ass, otherwise.

[Mickelonis]

New to this, so forgive me if this is a dumb question..

Does Soft 15hz work on Vista 64, or Xp 64?


Thanks!

-Pete

[SailorSat]

XP 64 works fine.
Vista 64 doesn't work.
Seven 64 should work.

[mopnkezza]

Hey guys, some cool stuff going on round here. Just finished our first mame cabinet with a nice phillips tube rom a metz and it's all working pretty nice with a vga->scart cable ect.
We just have one problem that we can't figure out.
Games like sf2 seem to pick the 392x240 res which works fine i switched in windows (nvidia taskbar icon),
but when mame switches to that res by itself, there si wierd sync artifacts on the screen.
We took a video to demonstrate.

First you can see us switch to 392x240 with nvidia taskbar icon, which looks fine
Then in mame, the screen is corrupted.



Can anyone explain this???

[Ummon]

Then in mame, the screen is corrupted.

What does it look like in-game vs that menu?

[mopnkezza]

What does it look like in-game vs that menu?

All games at 392x240 via mame have that screen corruption in-game.

If I turn switchres off and set the desktop to 392x240 though they work fine.

[Ummon]

Mmm. Just being sure. Well, it comes to mind that the game itself may 'force' slightly different behavior from the mode. ?  What version of mame are you using?  And if after the re-write, are you using 'refreshspeed'?

[mopnkezza]

Playing with it a bit more, I've noticed than with some games the screen returns to normal in-game.

Using mame 0.133. I haven't tried the refresh speed option. is it enabled by default? Will check when I get back to the cabinet and see if it effects anything.

cheers

[candycabguy]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95350.msg1003783

ANY soft15 help here MOST appreciated!:)

Lee

[candycabguy]

seems I need a dongle for my 8400 GS Nvidia, where are they available?  Link?  How much?  Am I better off getting a new card?  Thanks!

Lee

[SailorSat]

Get a new card.
Go for a Radeon HD 4350 or something like that.

[Ummon]

Get a new card.
Go for a Radeon HD 4350 or something like that.

Fnord.

[Epyx]

Contemplating going with Soft15khz for a future build (I currently have the ArcadeVGA2 in another).

QUESTION:

What would be the fastest (in terms of 3d) card that is still the most compatible with 15khz modes? ATI 4670?

[SailorSat]

Currently should be the ATI Radeon HD 4890 (or whatever is the top model in the HD 4000 series)

But currently I don't think anyone has tested such a monster