Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[Scotty]

So with the monitor rotated 90 degrees (vertical), is it possible to rotate the scan lines so the go horizontal (left to right, instead of top to bottom). 

Scotty

[SailorSat]

Nope. Like I said, It's not technically possible to rotate the scanlines.

[Ummon]

Read the monitor wiki, scotty. I know what you mean about wanting horiztonal scanlines on vertical games, with the monitor in vertical orientation (you do mean that, right?), cos I've posted several times about that, but it's a messy topic. Again, read the wiki to understand the hardware.

[Scotty]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I just got back from a friends house, who said he had a monitor (CRT) that he no longer needed as he just got a 24" Samsung flat panel and he needed the room.  Guess what I scored?  a 19" NEC MultiSync!!!

Can we say 21" Horizontal and 19" vertical???!!!!   

[Ummon]

No. Because the measurement is diagonal.

[SailorSat]

I fear that your "multisync" can't go down below 30kHz

Multisync nowadays is pretty confusing.

[Ummon]

It's not really. One just needs to know the actual specs of the monitor. And read the monitor wiki!  Heheheheh.

[SailorSat]

So whats going on lately? Well I just survived attempted assassination... the wannabe murder disguised himself as GeForce card!

No actually just a cap on a 7600gt "blew off" with a loud bang an hit me (that actually hurts!). Funny part is the card itself still works fine.



---

The dongles are finished and ready to go into "mass production".
Once that step is done the first step will be available at www.arcadeshop.de (they also ship overseas).
Other shops may follow later on.



---

The new build is coming along fine though I still haven't looked into Vista yet.
Many things have been rewriten; i.e. registry backups; and some others have been changed.
Most of the code is still from the first proof-of-concept so it was about time...

As for the "done" stuff:
- The default resolutions of 321 pixel width have been changed back to 320 pixels, which actually works with any card EXCEPT ATI Radeons pre-HD4000.


As for some "todo" stuff:
- Maybe Matrox on Windows 98 will be added too, but that depends on some internal testing.
- Vista support... Well like said I haven't looked into yet...

---

P.S.
I need a better way to "store" my debug cards... those boxes are way too small

[krick]

As for the "done" stuff:
- The default resolutions of 321 pixel width have been changed back to 320 pixels, which actually works with any card EXCEPT ATI Radeons pre-HD4000.

So.. assuming you were going to build a computer today for playing MAME in an arcade cabinet (15khz arcade monitor) using Windows XP on a PCI-Express motherboard.  What card (be as specific as possible) would you choose for the job?

[SailorSat]

Either an ATI Radeon HD4350 (any HD4000 should do) or a NVidia GeForce 9500GS (with the edid dongle).

[krick]

Either an ATI Radeon HD4350 (any HD4000 should do) or a NVidia GeForce 9500GS (with the edid dongle).

Any leanings toward one or the other?  I'm not seeing a lot of people selling the 9500GS.  There are TONS of HD4350s.

[SailorSat]

The HD4350 is available "passive", which may be nice if you want a silent cab, but is actually not very powerfull. (DC is most likely a no-go)

The GF9500 has a fan, but is way more powerfull. If you plan on running other Emus like DC or something like that.

And of course, the GeForce still has a 32 Resolution Limit.

[SailorSat]

Okay back to Vista topic... Well it kinda works now, however has several limitations.

ATIs vista driver doesn't support resolutions below 640x480 no matter what, they simple don't show up which would limit ourselfes to "doubled" resolutions (which then are interlaced).

NVidias vista driver basically allows most resolutions, though all 240 line modes will automatically be "scanconverted" to 480lines, AND the drivers don't allow interlace resolutions, which means we're stuck with 352x288, 640x288 and such things.
However one may overcome THAT limitation with adding 2 or 4 lines to pretty much every mode (328x244 anyone?).

As for Matrox... I haven't looked into yet.


So it sadly looks like Vista still is a no go.
For now on Vista32 you COULD force a driver install for XP drivers which actually works pretty good though no DirectX10 and no AERO then.
Maybe the same works on Vista64 with XP64 drivers if you disable driver signing...

I don't think it will change in Windows7

[isucamper]

So it sadly looks like Vista still is a no go.

But you've made a lot of progress, and that makes me happy.  We're rooting for you, SailorSat.

[Ummon]

Yeah, mad props. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to create a special, stickied thread for the dongles so peoples knows about 'em, mm?

[drunkninja]

Hmm....is my Radeon a no go?  I have a Radeon 2100 Integrated hooked up to a D9500 monitor and am trying to get 15khz out of it, but when I use Soft15KHz, I can still only go as low as 640x480...the chipset at boot was an XPress 1250.  Looked it up and found that someone said it worked with 7.12 Catalyst, but still no luck on my end.

[SailorSat]

Are you using QuickRes to select Resolutions or default Windows Control Panel?

[swamprat96]

I'm using a radeon X600. I found I had to go back to Catalyst 7.1 to make it work. Catalayst 9.1 gave me problems as it kept resetting the res when it found the PC monitor. Too damned clever for its own good. I use quickres as the windows setting will not display the lower res as has been noted before

I'm also using lightguns (guncon2 clones). To make it work I followed this thread using the basic approach explained by SailorSat - plugged my monitor into the vga - set up soft15KHZ on both ports (as I need the other for the guns), set the display for 640 x480 disconnected the PC display, connected the arcade monitor and guns (via the second port using a DVI to VGA adaptor joined to a vga to composite adaptor)- and rebooted -BINGO! Both the display came up (640X480) and the guns worked (some calibration yet to do). I have not done any custom resolutions yet and I will only if the games need it. Tested area51 and its fine.

Thankyou SailorSat for this great software . Until I found this thread I was having all kinds of issues as for some reason an ArcadeVGA would not allow my PC to boot. This has got my project going - but now I've found I need a chassis repair.....

Never mind- nearly there

[blkdog7]

I'm sorry guys, I am just not getting all of this and how to properly setup my ini files with Soft15k.

For the most part I am happy with the look of my games but I know it's not perfect.

I followed all MAME config setup steps for ArcadeVGA. Everything looks decent. But, I really need help creating the ini files for each game. In plain English, tell me what tools to use, what resolutions to add, exclude, whatever.

I am running MALA, Soft15k, MAME 129, Geforce 5200FX in a MS. Pac-Man cabinet with a VERTICAL arcade monitor. I have a WG D7700. It is mounted VERTICALLY. What is the best tool and what settings should I use to create game ini files for MAME? It seems to be that my setup would be considered a standard vertical arcade cab setup so why not make default settings for this?

Or, if someone already has a similar setup, care to share your ini files? I have the full MAME set of games but am mostly interested in early 80s classics.

[northerngames]

quikres tool for desktop

AVRES tool for native display setup

[alui]

SailorSat

I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.

Thanks

[blkdog7]

quikres tool for desktop

AVRES tool for native display setup

I have those tools already installed. I ran AVRES and it created INI files with "auto res" in them. ALL OF THEM.

I need to know what resolutions to add to AVRES or which ones to omit. And, do I need to add or delete resolutions from Soft15? And that I can't figure out too.

[northerngames]

quikres tool for desktop

AVRES tool for native display setup

I have those tools already installed. I ran AVRES and it created INI files with "auto res" in them. ALL OF THEM.

I need to know what resolutions to add to AVRES or which ones to omit. And, do I need to add or delete resolutions from Soft15? And that I can't figure out too.

what games are out of sync if any?

depending on the card your using you may need to add or delete some settings but I am not into what cards can and cannot do display wise so others would have to help with that.

[isucamper]

Got a question.  This has been annoying me for a while and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

How come when I scale my mame games to 640x480 and turn on -vsync or -tb, they only run at 98%-99% with Soft15Khz enabled (using the 640x480 in the 31khz set) but they run just fine at 100% if soft15Khz is not installed (using the normal windows drivers)?

I ask because I'm running a lot of vertical shooters on my horizontal monitor and I just run them at the 640x480 (same as my front end).  I get sound skips if I turn vsync or tb on. 

[Ummon]

Got a question.  This has been annoying me for a while and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

How come when I scale my mame games to 640x480 and turn on -vsync or -tb, they only run at 98%-99% with Soft15Khz enabled (using the 640x480 in the 31khz set) but they run just fine at 100% if soft15Khz is not installed (using the normal windows drivers)?

I ask because I'm running a lot of vertical shooters on my horizontal monitor and I just run them at the 640x480 (same as my front end).  I get sound skips if I turn vsync or tb on. 

Easymamecab monitor how-to......but I'll give you a hint: it has to do with the lines displayed vs orientation.

[Trevor spencer]

hi , im gonna be getting a ASUS HD 4350 GC soon and plan to use Soft 15khz but i need a VGA to Scart cable and i dont fancy making my own , is there anywhere else that sells them apart from here

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/12836/%3Cbr%20/%3E

i cant read the site and i dont think you can change it to english ?

Thanks

[Xenepp]

Speaking of SCART, I'm currently trying to get SNES/Megadrive/NegoGeo resolutions added for my "console" setup on the TV but I'm hitting a wall.

I'm using a Geforce 7300 card and thus limited to 32 resolutions. I can't figure out how to get the resolutions calculated (ANYTHING related to math makes my head explode) so happily I found a nice list online. I know I need to remove resolutions and then add my own but it's just not working, every time I try it just tells me that I can only add 32. By my reconing I have less than that:

Code: [Select]

remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256
remove 401x256
remove 448x240
remove 1024x768

Modeline "256x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 5.320 256 274 299 341 224 260 263 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 5.370 256 274 299 341 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 10.640 512 548 598 681 224 260 263 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 10.740 512 548 599 683 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync

Modeline "304x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 6.327 304 319 349 405 224 262 265 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "304x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.365 304 319 349 405 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "304x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.499 304 336 360 416 224 234 237 264  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x224@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 6.660 320 336 367 426 224 262 265 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x224@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.700 320 336 367 426 224 236 239 262  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x240@50 PAL  (50Hz)" 6.660 320 336 367 426 240 270 273 312  -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x240@60 NTSC (60Hz)" 6.700 320 336 367 426 240 244 247 262  -hsync -vsync
I might be formatting it wrong or I may not be doing things in the right order (install 15khz first or usermodes??) but I'll need guidance on that!

 -Joel

[Xenepp]

Ok well I tried just using a couple of those resolutions since I can't figure out how to remove resolutions to accommodate the new ones and it's all gone wrong.

Zsnes now just centers itself in the middle of the screen, it actually looks like the picture is interlaced. I might as well be using TV out if it's going to do crap like that.

I'm so in over my head here, all I want is to be able to play the most popular console emulators (NES/SNES/Megadrive) on the TV at their correct resolutions just like I do on my cab with MAME, I don't get why it's so hard (for my pea sized brain)..

 -Joel

[SailorSat]

I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.

71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

How come when I scale my mame games to 640x480 and turn on -vsync or -tb, they only run at 98%-99% with Soft15Khz enabled (using the 640x480 in the 31khz set) but they run just fine at 100% if soft15Khz is not installed (using the normal windows drivers)?

That's because its not outputing 60Hz, but 59,5Hz.
People should not use plain MAME nowadays; Makes me sick to read about "sound stuttering"...
Go for CabMAME or MAMEUIFX (or any other MAME with soundsync hack).

I'm using a Geforce 7300 card and thus limited to 32 resolutions. I can't figure out how to get the resolutions calculated (ANYTHING related to math makes my head explode) so happily I found a nice list online. I know I need to remove resolutions and then add my own but it's just not working, every time I try it just tells me that I can only add 32.

I'll never get why people try to get 224 line modes as its physical impossible to display them with 60Hz
All those consoles output 262 lines in 60Hz, with black borders around them.

However; back to topic... You hit the 32 resolution limit as every mode you add, even if the are all the same pixel size, is calculated as individual mode.
If you want to add 10 resolutions, you need to remove at least 8 of the stock ones.

[Ummon]

I'll never get why people try to get 224 line modes as its physical impossible to display them with 60Hz
All those consoles output 262 lines in 60Hz, with black borders around them.

Or overscan, yes?

[Xenepp]

Thanks for the reply SS

I'll never get why people try to get 224 line modes as its physical impossible to display them with 60Hz
All those consoles output 262 lines in 60Hz, with black borders around them.

Probably because we are dense and you know what you are talking about Mind you, I want to run most of those modes in 50hz, if that makes a difference, how many lines do they output then?

Incidentally, is there a list somewhere of resolutions I should be using for (PAL) Megadrive, SNES, N64 etc? What I have running at the moment looks good but is obviously different from my real consoles. I used the 224 modes since that is what is stated at the console's native res.

However; back to topic... You hit the 32 resolution limit as every mode you add, even if the are all the same pixel size, is calculated as individual mode.
If you want to add 10 resolutions, you need to remove at least 8 of the stock ones.

Yeah I know, I just can't figure out the procedure to do so I checked the wiki but it's not really making sense to me, I tried what I think it was saying but it didn't work for me, just kept saying I couldn't add more lines.

On a side note, I'm suprised how more people are not using soft15khz for running console emulators on their CRT TVs. The older games look amazing and beat the crappy TV out on most video cards hands down.

 -Joel

[SailorSat]

Mind you, I want to run most of those modes in 50hz, if that makes a difference, how many lines do they output then?

Incidentally, is there a list somewhere of resolutions I should be using for (PAL) Megadrive, SNES, N64 etc? What I have running at the moment looks good but is obviously different from my real consoles. I used the 224 modes since that is what is stated at the console's native res.

Actually thats a good question. PAL modes even have more lines (312 instead of 262).
I still use the stock modes.

The main problem is, that 256x240 doesn't say anything about what exactly the console would output, as most likely the overscan size/position is different. As for the 224 line mode for example, they most likely are exactly the same as the 240 line modes, but with 16 lines less "active" and 16 lines more "overscan".

Creating "native" resolutions for various consoles may be a goooooood weekend job Just somebody actually has to do it

[SailorSat]

Ah I totally forgot to mention
Build 48 is online which actually pretty much is the same ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- as Build 47 (released April 1st, no real bugs till now )  BUT features a DONATE button on the main window, as some people pointed out they couldn't find a donate button anywhere. (actually there is on, but only very few people found it)

Please note: If you want to remove the STOCK 321x240 or 321x256 resolution on ATI cards you have to add "remove 320x240" or "remove 320x256" to the custom15khz.txt.
That one is the only known "flaw" in the current build

[spottedcheetah]

I have a question on the Soft-15KHz. I loaded it onto my MAME system running Windows XP Pro. The Video card is a built in NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE graphics. I am trying to use the Soft-15KHZ with a Wells Gardner D9400. I loaded the program and set it to 15KHZ. When I turn on the computer I get an out of range message on the monitor.
Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

Regards,

[alui]

I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.

71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.  Am I missing something here?

Thanks

[SailorSat]

I am trying to use the Soft-15KHZ with a Wells Gardner D9400. I loaded the program and set it to 15KHZ. When I turn on the computer I get an out of range message on the monitor.

Hm thats weird, I'm pretty clueless why they are out of range Oo.

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.

Hm... That's odd.

[isucamper]

I have a question on the Soft-15KHz. I loaded it onto my MAME system running Windows XP Pro. The Video card is a built in NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE graphics. I am trying to use the Soft-15KHZ with a Wells Gardner D9400. I loaded the program and set it to 15KHZ. When I turn on the computer I get an out of range message on the monitor.
Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

Regards,

I've got a similar setup to you.  XP Pro, onboard 6150 LE, WG D9800.  I have no problems running build 46.  After you install the 15Khz stuff, you need to set your desktop to 640x480 before rebooting. 

[Ummon]

I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.

71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.  Am I missing something here?

Thanks

But what's the refresh rate?

[alui]

I have a Nvidia 6600GT and am wondering what is the best driver to use for this card.  What's the lowest resolution can this card go?  I can't seem to using any of the 240 resolutions.

71.84 ore some from the 93.xx series.
My 6600GT did all resolutions except for one (the one with 264 lines).

Hmm, I installed 71.84 and found that except for 512x240 which seems to run at 15khz perfectly, all the other 240 resolutions run at 32khz on my WG9200.  Am I missing something here?

Thanks

But what's the refresh rate?

After playing with the other resolutions some more, I've found that the higher 240s (392, 448, 512,640x240) are working at 15khz with 59/60Hz refresh.  Anything below 392 (368, 352, 336, etc) don't work.  They all get switched to 30.9khz with 117Hz refresh (about 2x what they should be).  What can I do to enable the lower line resolution to display with 15khz?

Thanks

[Ummon]

Mm-hM. That's what I thought. You probly can't. My nvidia 6200 behaves exactly the same. I've tried to enforce native resolutions at 60hz with Rivatuner, and no go. Seems something in how it interacts with Windows, because it can do almost anything, even pixel clocks below '5' via Advancemame. Anyways, what you're getting are called, or at least what I call, high-refresh native modes. The luminosity won't be as high, but there should be hardware scanlines. Right?